• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:44
CEST 12:44
KST 19:44
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission extension3Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Why doesnt SC2 scene costream tournaments Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Who will win EWC 2025?
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo)
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL Soulkey Muta Micro Map? BW General Discussion [ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2025 ACS Season 2 Qualifier [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET CSL Xiamen International Invitational
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Games Industry And ATVI Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 590 users

Designated Balance Discussion Thread - Page 417

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 415 416 417 418 419 1266 Next
Moochlol
Profile Joined August 2010
United States456 Posts
March 31 2013 02:09 GMT
#8321
On March 31 2013 08:05 Phoenix2003 wrote:
Something needs to be done about the new mutas before touching skytoss.



Yea, what can be done, is toss scouts, makes 5 phoniex with range and counters 30 mutas.
blaaaaaarghhhhh
gobbledydook
Profile Joined October 2012
Australia2603 Posts
March 31 2013 02:18 GMT
#8322
On March 31 2013 09:31 Xequecal wrote:
IMHO, the best way to balance ZvP right now is to make corruptors light. I don't really see a downside to this. If they're light, then void rays don't annihilate them, and corruptors are again a counter to mass Protoss air. Phoenix would slaughter them, but I don't really see how that would be a problem, as phoenix don't shoot down. Colossus/phoenix could be beaten by just making vipers and abducting the colossi, as phoenix don't do much dps to vipers. It would also simultaneously get rid of the abusive Zerg strategy of "50 mutas, 20 corruptors, 300 spine crawlers, base trade" that's coming back with a vengeance. Zerg has figured out that if you mix in some corruptors with your muta flock to deter phoenix it doesn't have a counter anymore, and we're back to 2010 where Zerg just makes nothing but mutas the whole game against Protoss.


Phoenix don't shoot down, but they lift. And losing all your mutalisks and corruptors and the enemy still has 20 phoenix left, means you won't have any drones left pretty soon.
I am a dirty Protoss bullshit abuser
Emzeeshady
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Canada4203 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-31 02:24:15
March 31 2013 02:23 GMT
#8323
--- Nuked ---
TimENT
Profile Joined November 2012
United States1425 Posts
March 31 2013 02:27 GMT
#8324
On March 31 2013 11:23 Emzeeshady wrote:
The fact he lost a combined 6 games versus those 3 is a decent indication Zerg isn't too great right now considering Life is more skilled then all of them combined.


Lmfao somebody is living their own fantasy. 10-6 vs 2 Kespa Terrans and one of the best WoL Terrans doesn't indicate that there is anything wrong with balance
Barcelona / Arsenal Fan!
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25118 Posts
March 31 2013 02:28 GMT
#8325
On March 31 2013 11:23 Emzeeshady wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 31 2013 11:09 Moochlol wrote:
On March 31 2013 08:05 Phoenix2003 wrote:
Something needs to be done about the new mutas before touching skytoss.



Yea, what can be done, is toss scouts, makes 5 phoniex with range and counters 30 mutas.

Ya, there should be no excuse for Toss ever to lose to Mutas now with free hallucination and the new super Phenixes.

Also to the whole Life thing, he barely beat Polt and Last and Flash played terrible still winning two games. The fact he lost a combined 6 games versus those 3 is a decent indication Zerg isn't too great right now considering Life is more skilled then all of them combined.

Rofl, borderline retarded. I rate Life as highly as the next guy, but that is a ridiculous overstatement of his skill level/understatement of the level those players play at.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Emzeeshady
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Canada4203 Posts
March 31 2013 02:30 GMT
#8326
--- Nuked ---
GaNgStaRR.ElV
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada535 Posts
March 31 2013 02:33 GMT
#8327
On March 31 2013 11:30 Emzeeshady wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 31 2013 11:28 Wombat_NI wrote:
On March 31 2013 11:23 Emzeeshady wrote:
On March 31 2013 11:09 Moochlol wrote:
On March 31 2013 08:05 Phoenix2003 wrote:
Something needs to be done about the new mutas before touching skytoss.



Yea, what can be done, is toss scouts, makes 5 phoniex with range and counters 30 mutas.

Ya, there should be no excuse for Toss ever to lose to Mutas now with free hallucination and the new super Phenixes.

Also to the whole Life thing, he barely beat Polt and Last and Flash played terrible still winning two games. The fact he lost a combined 6 games versus those 3 is a decent indication Zerg isn't too great right now considering Life is more skilled then all of them combined.

Rofl, borderline retarded. I rate Life as highly as the next guy, but that is a ridiculous overstatement of his skill level/understatement of the level those players play at.

Ok, I will settle for twice as good .



Wow life is twice as good as Flash? rofl.

God some people are such bandwagoners.

You were probably part of the artosis/Nestea train that convinced people he was immortal. He is a good player but comon all these top level players are so close in skill level you can't make an arbitrary call like that.
Emzeeshady
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Canada4203 Posts
March 31 2013 02:38 GMT
#8328
--- Nuked ---
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25118 Posts
March 31 2013 02:39 GMT
#8329
Ah well, I hope the average Life fan doesn't start coming out with such nonsense or I'll have to start disliking him because of ridiculous fanboyism.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Emzeeshady
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Canada4203 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-31 02:48:13
March 31 2013 02:48 GMT
#8330
--- Nuked ---
Moochlol
Profile Joined August 2010
United States456 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-31 02:49:07
March 31 2013 02:48 GMT
#8331
Life 2x Better than Flash? That is pushing it. I would much rather put my money on Flash being the best of 2013 over Life.
blaaaaaarghhhhh
Innovation
Profile Joined February 2010
United States284 Posts
March 31 2013 02:51 GMT
#8332
On March 31 2013 08:56 Innovation wrote:
Show nested quote +


That's interesting because I constantly see no name terrans destroying zergs they shouldn't even be close to beating. I just spent the last two hours watching Stephano get destroyed by Demuslim over and over and over again. Stephano never even got close to winning in any of the games. Nothing against Demuslim but we all know he shouldn't be able to yawn his way to victory 7-0 over Stephano.

You have to be delusional not to realize that Terran is OP vs Zerg right now. I'd say easily even more OP than broodlord/infestor pre-nerf.

stephano also never makes muta, ever, even though the meta calls for muta atm


I do find it frustrating that he doesn't use muta since it feels like the only viable option against bio/mine but I don't think it invalidates the point. Even those zergs that are using muta are struggling against terran.
About ChoyafOu "if he wants games decided by random chance he could just play the way he always does" Idra
GaNgStaRR.ElV
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada535 Posts
March 31 2013 02:59 GMT
#8333
On March 31 2013 11:48 Emzeeshady wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 31 2013 11:39 Wombat_NI wrote:
Ah well, I hope the average Life fan doesn't start coming out with such nonsense or I'll have to start disliking him because of ridiculous fanboyism.
Haha don't be like that :p
Part of being a fan is making ridiculous statements that you know are not true. Leaf fans tell me they are a top team year after year...

Anyway back on topic I think there is no reason for Blizzard not to nerf Voids a little bit. They are not really needed in the other matchups and they are kind of ruling PvP right now (and not in a good way). The Muta problem in ZvZ is more complicated because Zergs are relying on them in ZvT to stop the new medivacs and if they are nerved then Zerg will probably struggle even more then they are now.

My suggestion would be to buff hydras versus air. It would not just help versus Mutas but also versus late game sky toss. If they have to Bliz can to Hydras what they did to spores and do bonus versus biological air )basically just Mutas).


That's cause every year we look like a top team and then fizzle...that's why I like this year, if we are going to fizzle atleast it will be in the playoffs! and i cant be sad when there's only 1 CDN team not in playoff spots at the moment


Def agree with Void rays, although I disagree with Hydra buff. Making even more weird + to damage buffs would just over-complicate things! I think mutas are ok just let the metagame adapt for a bit.
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
March 31 2013 03:19 GMT
#8334
On March 31 2013 11:51 Innovation wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 31 2013 08:56 Innovation wrote:
Show nested quote +


That's interesting because I constantly see no name terrans destroying zergs they shouldn't even be close to beating. I just spent the last two hours watching Stephano get destroyed by Demuslim over and over and over again. Stephano never even got close to winning in any of the games. Nothing against Demuslim but we all know he shouldn't be able to yawn his way to victory 7-0 over Stephano.

You have to be delusional not to realize that Terran is OP vs Zerg right now. I'd say easily even more OP than broodlord/infestor pre-nerf.

stephano also never makes muta, ever, even though the meta calls for muta atm


I do find it frustrating that he doesn't use muta since it feels like the only viable option against bio/mine but I don't think it invalidates the point. Even those zergs that are using muta are struggling against terran.

[image loading]

Look at all the Zerg GMs struggling on the Korean server, apparently the only region that Terrans know how to play the race to boot.
Emzeeshady
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Canada4203 Posts
March 31 2013 03:30 GMT
#8335
--- Nuked ---
Emzeeshady
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Canada4203 Posts
March 31 2013 03:34 GMT
#8336
--- Nuked ---
-_-
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States7081 Posts
March 31 2013 03:35 GMT
#8337
On March 31 2013 11:30 Emzeeshady wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 31 2013 11:28 Wombat_NI wrote:
On March 31 2013 11:23 Emzeeshady wrote:
On March 31 2013 11:09 Moochlol wrote:
On March 31 2013 08:05 Phoenix2003 wrote:
Something needs to be done about the new mutas before touching skytoss.



Yea, what can be done, is toss scouts, makes 5 phoniex with range and counters 30 mutas.

Ya, there should be no excuse for Toss ever to lose to Mutas now with free hallucination and the new super Phenixes.

Also to the whole Life thing, he barely beat Polt and Last and Flash played terrible still winning two games. The fact he lost a combined 6 games versus those 3 is a decent indication Zerg isn't too great right now considering Life is more skilled then all of them combined.

Rofl, borderline retarded. I rate Life as highly as the next guy, but that is a ridiculous overstatement of his skill level/understatement of the level those players play at.

Ok, I will settle for twice as good .


Life beat Flash because he had the better strategy. And it's not like he even adapted his strategy on the fly to defeat Flash. He didn't scout Flash and counter him. He simply used the same style he repeatedly used in WOL. Flash had a bunch of Rocks in his bag of tools, and Life and Paper.

I think both Flash and Innovation are better than LIfe, and that will be reflected in their accomplishments throughout HOTS.
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
March 31 2013 03:35 GMT
#8338
On March 31 2013 12:30 Emzeeshady wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 31 2013 12:19 aksfjh wrote:
On March 31 2013 11:51 Innovation wrote:
On March 31 2013 08:56 Innovation wrote:
Show nested quote +


That's interesting because I constantly see no name terrans destroying zergs they shouldn't even be close to beating. I just spent the last two hours watching Stephano get destroyed by Demuslim over and over and over again. Stephano never even got close to winning in any of the games. Nothing against Demuslim but we all know he shouldn't be able to yawn his way to victory 7-0 over Stephano.

You have to be delusional not to realize that Terran is OP vs Zerg right now. I'd say easily even more OP than broodlord/infestor pre-nerf.

stephano also never makes muta, ever, even though the meta calls for muta atm


I do find it frustrating that he doesn't use muta since it feels like the only viable option against bio/mine but I don't think it invalidates the point. Even those zergs that are using muta are struggling against terran.

[image loading]

Look at all the Zerg GMs struggling on the Korean server, apparently the only region that Terrans know how to play the race to boot.

Way to judge balance from ladder games ...

Just trying to point out that Zerg isn't "struggling" like suggested.
Emzeeshady
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Canada4203 Posts
March 31 2013 03:37 GMT
#8339
--- Nuked ---
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
March 31 2013 03:42 GMT
#8340
On March 31 2013 12:37 Emzeeshady wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 31 2013 12:35 aksfjh wrote:
On March 31 2013 12:30 Emzeeshady wrote:
On March 31 2013 12:19 aksfjh wrote:
On March 31 2013 11:51 Innovation wrote:
On March 31 2013 08:56 Innovation wrote:
Show nested quote +


That's interesting because I constantly see no name terrans destroying zergs they shouldn't even be close to beating. I just spent the last two hours watching Stephano get destroyed by Demuslim over and over and over again. Stephano never even got close to winning in any of the games. Nothing against Demuslim but we all know he shouldn't be able to yawn his way to victory 7-0 over Stephano.

You have to be delusional not to realize that Terran is OP vs Zerg right now. I'd say easily even more OP than broodlord/infestor pre-nerf.

stephano also never makes muta, ever, even though the meta calls for muta atm


I do find it frustrating that he doesn't use muta since it feels like the only viable option against bio/mine but I don't think it invalidates the point. Even those zergs that are using muta are struggling against terran.

[image loading]

Look at all the Zerg GMs struggling on the Korean server, apparently the only region that Terrans know how to play the race to boot.

Way to judge balance from ladder games ...

Just trying to point out that Zerg isn't "struggling" like suggested.

Ok, but you will need better proof then that. If what you are saying is true then just wait for the next GSL and let it play out. So far all legitimate results point the other way but the sample size is indeed small.

That's what I'm trying to say. There's nothing pointing to Terrans needing to be nerfed, nor any other race right now. However, we have 3/4 of TL posting like speedvacs are going to be nerfed already, as if there are clear signs that they break all matchups. We should be playing the "wait and see" game for ALL races and situations for right now.
Prev 1 415 416 417 418 419 1266 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Sparkling Tuna Cup
10:00
Weekly #98
CranKy Ducklings131
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech86
StarCraft: Brood War
Hyuk 1717
Barracks 1608
BeSt 1197
Shuttle 709
Larva 620
Mini 590
firebathero 372
actioN 341
Dewaltoss 291
Soma 236
[ Show more ]
EffOrt 203
Hyun 171
Last 147
Leta 137
Bonyth 96
ToSsGirL 95
PianO 74
Sharp 73
Shinee 33
Backho 28
Sacsri 19
sorry 18
Noble 14
ajuk12(nOOB) 11
Yoon 7
Dota 2
XcaliburYe707
XaKoH 597
canceldota215
League of Legends
JimRising 427
Counter-Strike
x6flipin460
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor224
Other Games
Happy348
SortOf233
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2558
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH264
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV375
• lizZardDota2279
• Ler56
League of Legends
• Jankos1463
Upcoming Events
Online Event
5h 16m
BSL 2v2 ProLeague S3
7h 16m
Esports World Cup
1d 23h
ByuN vs Astrea
Lambo vs HeRoMaRinE
Clem vs TBD
Solar vs Zoun
SHIN vs Reynor
Maru vs TriGGeR
herO vs Lancer
Cure vs ShoWTimE
Esports World Cup
2 days
Esports World Cup
3 days
Esports World Cup
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
6 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
6 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

2025 ACS Season 2
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

BSL 2v2 Season 3
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Underdog Cup #2
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.