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On August 05 2011 07:18 wolfe wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 07:17 babylon wrote:On August 05 2011 07:16 wolfe wrote:On August 05 2011 07:15 babylon wrote:On August 05 2011 07:14 wolfe wrote:On August 05 2011 07:11 babylon wrote:On August 05 2011 07:10 wolfe wrote:On August 05 2011 06:21 babylon wrote:On August 05 2011 06:08 baoluvboa wrote:On August 05 2011 06:06 babylon wrote:
[quote]
Actually, the proper, professional response would be to fire the two workers playing beach ball at the office. The issue is that Coach Lee decided to withhold their salaries as a punishment, which is unjustifiable any way you look at it. Basically, he wanted FD and Trickster on the team so he could continue using them for marketing, but he didn't want to pay them even though they're salaried. You can't have it both ways. You either keep them on the team and pay them, or you fire them and pay them what you're supposed to pay them for the time they've been on the team. Another way to look at it is that Asian culture tends to be more familiar and less business in conduct. By withholding wages, the coach is not cutting ties with his players completely but rather presenting a harsh incentive for them to work harder. Firing is strict and is not the style of the Asian culture nor Sc2 since it is only a niche organization. What I'm saying is that the coach's withholding of wages could be look at another perspective in that he only wants to make FD and Tester improve but not firing them from the team and the "family" completely. Actually, I'm Asian (albeit not Korean), and I can tell you right now that you're quite wrong. i would say that a majority of us are actually quite shrewd with money matters, and if we don't feel we're getting what we're paying you for, you'll be out the door very, very fast. EDIT: I don't mean to generalize here, but seriously, implying that all Asians are that naive in business matters is kind of ignorant. Wtf don't speak for us don't even say majority. I don't care if it's your opinion, it's a false opinion about OTHER people. Asians are less business in conduct? Firing is strict and not our conduct? Do you have any idea what you are talking about? You're misreading. I essentially said, "We fire people just like everyone else in the business world." =__= I'm sorry English is my first language, but I don't seem to understand how "Firing is strict and is not the style of the Asian culture nor Sc2 since it is only a niche organization." translates into "We fire people just like everyone else in the business world." And if that second statement is what you intended from the beginning your 1st post was poorly worded and also rather pointless. The sky is blue. Yes. Wonderful. Asians use paper to write on just like everyone else. Keep those contributions coming. I didn't say that. baoluvboa did. I was responding to baoluvboa. Read the nested quotes, please. ........ sigh similar names, my bad. Why did you respond to my comment then? It wasn't even directed at you. Because you quoted me.  I'm sorry <3.
No worries. <3
On August 05 2011 07:39 neoghaleon55 wrote:Freaking FD. I wanted him to win so badly every time...now it comes out he didn't practice
This has actually been known ever since Trickster and FD left oGs.
I expect Coach Lee to release another statement, probably, because there's really no way that he can live this down. If he stays silent, he'll be confirming what has been said as true, and that really doesn't paint a good picture of him.
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"I believe that the decision could have been made after TSL and I making an announcement on our opinion"
Lol the irony that Coach Lee wanted to talk to TSL and collectively making an announcement.
Also, this makes sense why FD and Tester have been so subpar since that open season 1. FD is the perfect example of, like in BW, the first couple champions that win once and flame out
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On August 05 2011 07:39 neoghaleon55 wrote:Freaking FD. I wanted him to win so badly every time...now it comes out he didn't practice
The fact that he barely practiced has been known since GSL3.
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Also did anyone look at the interview more closely.
here is a quote from it, the TSL response anyways.
Due to their attitude actions which hurt their team mates such as not being interested in team rebuilding and ect, the coach and the players decided that there would be no need to give the final payment. That duration was for a month
So from what I can tell, it was also the other players in TSL that gave Lee the goahead no to pay FD and tester.
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It is hilarious that the coach thinks he is allowed to withhold pay as some kind of punishment while the players are under contract.
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thats craziness... just like a poorly run business, a poorly run team cannot succeed especially when it is getting as big as it is
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On August 05 2011 07:48 masterbreti wrote:Also did anyone look at the interview more closely. here is a quote from it, the TSL response anyways. Show nested quote +Due to their attitude actions which hurt their team mates such as not being interested in team rebuilding and ect, the coach and the players decided that there would be no need to give the final payment. That duration was for a month So from what I can tell, it was also the other players in TSL that gave Lee the goahead no to pay FD and tester.
Might have been peer pressure, might have been exaggerated but in the end no matter what the players said, Coach Lee had a legal obligation. Also have a feeling he's just dragging the players in.
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If all of this ends up being true I belive we have a criminal in the house. IF not, based on rekruls posts we have a nutcase in the house.
Puma, run, run...
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So much information from all sides that it's hard to formulate a cohesive narrative of it all. Bahhh!
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Looks like the end of the road that is TSL. Starting with a bang, the once luminous team now dies with a sad whimper. The remaining players are still massively talented, so I am certain that they'll find new homes. Hopefully, this will meant that former TSL sponsor dollars will transition to more responsible team managers, and that Mr Lee will step aside from E-sports until whatever is going on on his side gets resolved.
I still believe that this TSL saga can still be a important (if painful) lesson for the nascent SC2 industry, not just for Korea, but serves a wake-up call for everyone involved. There's money in the scene now, big money that will get bigger, and until we start realizing how important due diligence in team/tournament finances and a few good businessmen meant to the scene, we are doomed for this to happen again.
So long, ![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/e/ee/TSLlogo_std.png) , and thanks.
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On August 05 2011 07:50 moonmeh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 07:48 masterbreti wrote:Also did anyone look at the interview more closely. here is a quote from it, the TSL response anyways. Due to their attitude actions which hurt their team mates such as not being interested in team rebuilding and ect, the coach and the players decided that there would be no need to give the final payment. That duration was for a month So from what I can tell, it was also the other players in TSL that gave Lee the goahead no to pay FD and tester. Might have been peer pressure, might have been exaggerated but in the end no matter what the players said, Coach Lee had a legal obligation. Also have a feeling he's just dragging the players in.
There is no contract though.
give you an example though of how non salaried players work.
My father is a Contracter. He does work for people and they pay him when it is finished. simple enough. If he says he will do it and does not. Guess what! he won't be paid a dime or a penny.
If one does not do the work asked of them, one does not get paid, regardless of the relationship between the man with the money and the person wanting the money.
in the sc2 scene in Korea it can be likened to this. Lee asked FD and tester to practice more and play more since TSL's results were not so good, also if FD and tester practice more, they inspire the younger players and get them to play more since they would want to at least match the older players practice routine (MMA refrences this drive to out practice the older players in a interview with Gom a while back)
Now if FD or tester did their practice and did their work like they were asked. They would have been paid.
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I always knew EG was the good guys.
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On August 05 2011 07:49 MannerMan wrote:
It is hilarious that the coach thinks he is allowed to withhold pay as some kind of punishment while the players are under contract.
the players are not under a contract... in korea, they go by the trust system.
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On August 05 2011 08:04 Kangdemon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 07:49 MannerMan wrote:
It is hilarious that the coach thinks he is allowed to withhold pay as some kind of punishment while the players are under contract. the players are not under a contract... in korea, they go by the trust system.
Didn't Lee mention he didn't want to use contracts because he trusts the players when Puma joined EG? Yet, hes the one breaking the trust by not paying them salaries, lying to them about sponsors, stealing sponsored goods, etc. Oh the irony.
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Sounds like Lee is a sketchy businessman...
Increases in money, but decreases in player side benefits? Confiscated equipment when he owns a LAN?
Just stinks, even if he is innocent of anything malicious.
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This is intense. E sports is becomming more and more like real-sport dramas
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Seems Lee had a contract with the wrong guys and no contract with the wrong guy xD
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On August 05 2011 08:01 masterbreti wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 07:50 moonmeh wrote:On August 05 2011 07:48 masterbreti wrote:Also did anyone look at the interview more closely. here is a quote from it, the TSL response anyways. Due to their attitude actions which hurt their team mates such as not being interested in team rebuilding and ect, the coach and the players decided that there would be no need to give the final payment. That duration was for a month So from what I can tell, it was also the other players in TSL that gave Lee the goahead no to pay FD and tester. Might have been peer pressure, might have been exaggerated but in the end no matter what the players said, Coach Lee had a legal obligation. Also have a feeling he's just dragging the players in. There is no contract though. give you an example though of how non salaried players work. My father is a Contracter. He does work for people and they pay him when it is finished. simple enough. If he says he will do it and does not. Guess what! he won't be paid a dime or a penny. If one does not do the work asked of them, one does not get paid, regardless of the relationship between the man with the money and the person wanting the money. in the sc2 scene in Korea it can be likened to this. Lee asked FD and tester to practice more and play more since TSL's results were not so good, also if FD and tester practice more, they inspire the younger players and get them to play more since they would want to at least match the older players practice routine (MMA refrences this drive to out practice the older players in a interview with Gom a while back) Now if FD or tester did their practice and did their work like they were asked. They would have been paid.
....But they WERE contracted and salaried. That means you get paid unless you are fired. They were never fired. They weren't, in fact, contracted workers. If you work at a company for X amount of time, and for your last month of your job, you underperform, you are still guaranteed your salary pay by a legally binding contract that you and your employer must uphold. If you fail to uphold your part, you are liable to be fired, upon which FURTHER payment shall be suspended, but any work done during the time of employment MUST be paid in full.
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It's such a shame that FD and Trickster have all the potential and skill in the world, but they don't give a damn about practice. The Allen Iverson syndrome if you will, for the basketball fans.
I was such a huge FD fan too. =(
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On August 05 2011 07:39 neoghaleon55 wrote:Freaking FD. I wanted him to win so badly every time...now it comes out he didn't practice
Not to be mean dude but him showing up unshaven, looking scruffy and hungover all the time compared to how he looked and acted in season one wasn't a pretty big clue? He even said in an interview he was drinking a lot... I think most people knew he wasn't practicing... just not to what extent (which we still don't know really).
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EPT
