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'TSL expelled from SC2 Conference' - Page 47

Forum Index > SC2 General
1124 CommentsPost a Reply
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IAttackYou
Profile Joined August 2010
United States330 Posts
August 05 2011 00:27 GMT
#921
I do really feel bad for TSL, they were the first team that actually paid their player wages. I felt like they tried to take the right steps forward and improve the overall image of how a Starcraft team is suppose to operate but just fell short somewhere. Especially with Puma leaving TSL, they practically lost their only Ace up the sleeves.
I'm not a nub, I'm gosu of tomorrow
Carbonthief
Profile Joined October 2010
United States289 Posts
August 05 2011 00:29 GMT
#922
On August 05 2011 09:15 Condor Hero wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2011 09:05 Carbonthief wrote:
On August 05 2011 09:02 Gooey wrote:
On August 05 2011 08:40 masterbreti wrote:
On August 05 2011 08:26 Gooey wrote:
On August 05 2011 08:01 masterbreti wrote:
On August 05 2011 07:50 moonmeh wrote:
On August 05 2011 07:48 masterbreti wrote:
Also did anyone look at the interview more closely.

here is a quote from it, the TSL response anyways.

Due to their attitude actions which hurt their team mates such as not being interested in team rebuilding and ect, the coach and the players decided that there would be no need to give the final payment. That duration was for a month


So from what I can tell, it was also the other players in TSL that gave Lee the goahead no to pay FD and tester.


Might have been peer pressure, might have been exaggerated but in the end no matter what the players said, Coach Lee had a legal obligation. Also have a feeling he's just dragging the players in.



There is no contract though.

give you an example though of how non salaried players work.

My father is a Contracter. He does work for people and they pay him when it is finished. simple enough. If he says he will do it and does not. Guess what! he won't be paid a dime or a penny.

If one does not do the work asked of them, one does not get paid, regardless of the relationship between the man with the money and the person wanting the money.

in the sc2 scene in Korea it can be likened to this. Lee asked FD and tester to practice more and play more since TSL's results were not so good, also if FD and tester practice more, they inspire the younger players and get them to play more since they would want to at least match the older players practice routine (MMA refrences this drive to out practice the older players in a interview with Gom a while back)


Now if FD or tester did their practice and did their work like they were asked. They would have been paid.

....But they WERE contracted and salaried. That means you get paid unless you are fired. They were never fired. They weren't, in fact, contracted workers. If you work at a company for X amount of time, and for your last month of your job, you underperform, you are still guaranteed your salary pay by a legally binding contract that you and your employer must uphold. If you fail to uphold your part, you are liable to be fired, upon which FURTHER payment shall be suspended, but any work done during the time of employment MUST be paid in full.



they were not. Look at the Puma/EG situaition and see if they were contracted. They were paid for playing for TSL.


Puma is not Fruit Dealer or Trickster. He was not a salaried player on TSL.


Not only was Puma not salaried, but he was also not contracted, nor should he apparently have had any hope of becoming salaried in light of the situation he saw. So someone please tell me now why we should hate Puma for what he did, when it was Coach Lee that backstabbed him in the media?

nobody hates puma you moron, it was unprofessional of EG to contact the player first when he clearly was affiliated with a team (TSL paid for his flight and he was clearing representing them at an event with TSL_Puma)


Are you honestly trying to tell me that http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=246701 does not constitute a hatred for Puma?
MrCon
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
France29748 Posts
August 05 2011 00:33 GMT
#923
On August 05 2011 09:23 Angelbelow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2011 09:15 Condor Hero wrote:
On August 05 2011 09:05 Carbonthief wrote:
On August 05 2011 09:02 Gooey wrote:
On August 05 2011 08:40 masterbreti wrote:
On August 05 2011 08:26 Gooey wrote:
On August 05 2011 08:01 masterbreti wrote:
On August 05 2011 07:50 moonmeh wrote:
On August 05 2011 07:48 masterbreti wrote:
Also did anyone look at the interview more closely.

here is a quote from it, the TSL response anyways.

Due to their attitude actions which hurt their team mates such as not being interested in team rebuilding and ect, the coach and the players decided that there would be no need to give the final payment. That duration was for a month


So from what I can tell, it was also the other players in TSL that gave Lee the goahead no to pay FD and tester.


Might have been peer pressure, might have been exaggerated but in the end no matter what the players said, Coach Lee had a legal obligation. Also have a feeling he's just dragging the players in.



There is no contract though.

give you an example though of how non salaried players work.

My father is a Contracter. He does work for people and they pay him when it is finished. simple enough. If he says he will do it and does not. Guess what! he won't be paid a dime or a penny.

If one does not do the work asked of them, one does not get paid, regardless of the relationship between the man with the money and the person wanting the money.

in the sc2 scene in Korea it can be likened to this. Lee asked FD and tester to practice more and play more since TSL's results were not so good, also if FD and tester practice more, they inspire the younger players and get them to play more since they would want to at least match the older players practice routine (MMA refrences this drive to out practice the older players in a interview with Gom a while back)


Now if FD or tester did their practice and did their work like they were asked. They would have been paid.

....But they WERE contracted and salaried. That means you get paid unless you are fired. They were never fired. They weren't, in fact, contracted workers. If you work at a company for X amount of time, and for your last month of your job, you underperform, you are still guaranteed your salary pay by a legally binding contract that you and your employer must uphold. If you fail to uphold your part, you are liable to be fired, upon which FURTHER payment shall be suspended, but any work done during the time of employment MUST be paid in full.



they were not. Look at the Puma/EG situaition and see if they were contracted. They were paid for playing for TSL.


Puma is not Fruit Dealer or Trickster. He was not a salaried player on TSL.


Not only was Puma not salaried, but he was also not contracted, nor should he apparently have had any hope of becoming salaried in light of the situation he saw. So someone please tell me now why we should hate Puma for what he did, when it was Coach Lee that backstabbed him in the media?

nobody hates puma you moron, it was unprofessional of EG to contact the player first when he clearly was affiliated with a team (TSL paid for his flight and he was clearing representing them at an event with TSL_Puma)


NASL flew the players from the top 16 out, not the ind. teams.

500$ is not even enough for 1/4 of the travel for Koreans, 1/3 for Europeans.
DarkRise
Profile Joined November 2010
1644 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-05 00:42:47
August 05 2011 00:36 GMT
#924
Well well, kinda expected...
I knew that there is something going on the team. I mean 4 people leaving at the same month.
Now what?
How can you call that a coach who visits the team house 1-2 times per month. =/
bearhug
Profile Joined September 2010
United States999 Posts
August 05 2011 00:38 GMT
#925
Coach Lee cares more about his PC Cafe than TSL. After all, the TSL name greatly increases his profit of his PC Cafe.
We are dusts in the vast cosmic arena. Need to make the most out of life when we still have it.
OptimusYale
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Korea (South)1005 Posts
August 05 2011 00:44 GMT
#926
So wait...because TSL are out of SC2Con and there are no ramifications for not paying...Im guessing the 2 players aren't getting their money.....lame!
pookadin
Profile Joined June 2011
Australia422 Posts
August 05 2011 00:54 GMT
#927
On August 05 2011 09:44 OptimusYale wrote:
So wait...because TSL are out of SC2Con and there are no ramifications for not paying...Im guessing the 2 players aren't getting their money.....lame!


What about the money sacrified by Clide and Killer? Looking at this it looks like they were guilted out of that money. They should be compensated..
*JYP* #1 fan! ♥♥ twitter~ @Pookadin
zev318
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada4306 Posts
August 05 2011 01:02 GMT
#928
On August 05 2011 09:44 OptimusYale wrote:
So wait...because TSL are out of SC2Con and there are no ramifications for not paying...Im guessing the 2 players aren't getting their money.....lame!


from what i read from OP, it seems that even though TSL has left from the sc2con, they still need to pay the 2 players if they want to avoid any sanctions against them. sanctions such as not being able to participate in the GSL/GSTL.
AzTec
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada178 Posts
August 05 2011 01:05 GMT
#929
Anyone else sympathizing with coach Lee a fuck load?

The way I see it the guys just been trying to run a solid team from the start and basically the whole world is out to get him. I don't think there's anyone else in esports who has had worse luck then him.

Also, fuck everyone who jumped ship. Rain and Puma just seem like young guys who have yet to understand the importance of loyalty but Fruitdealer and Tester are way too old for this shit. They're just straight up shady. Jumping ship from oGs, starting TSL, then jumping ship from there too??? I'd never want to do business with either of those guys unless I want them to bail and stab me in the back later.

There's no doubt in my mind that coach Lee has his fair share of issues but I really feel like he's got a bum rap. He's stood by his team this whole time and is continuing to try and rebuild TSL even after having his star players fuck him over time and time again.

I would love to see any of the dudes who left try to run their own team.
spybreak
Profile Joined October 2010
United States684 Posts
August 05 2011 01:07 GMT
#930
On August 05 2011 10:05 AzTec wrote:
Anyone else sympathizing with coach Lee a fuck load?

The way I see it the guys just been trying to run a solid team from the start and basically the whole world is out to get him. I don't think there's anyone else in esports who has had worse luck then him.

Also, fuck everyone who jumped ship. Rain and Puma just seem like young guys who have yet to understand the importance of loyalty but Fruitdealer and Tester are way too old for this shit. They're just straight up shady. Jumping ship from oGs, starting TSL, then jumping ship from there too??? I'd never want to do business with either of those guys unless I want them to bail and stab me in the back later.

There's no doubt in my mind that coach Lee has his fair share of issues but I really feel like he's got a bum rap. He's stood by his team this whole time and is continuing to try and rebuild TSL even after having his star players fuck him over time and time again.

I would love to see any of the dudes who left try to run their own team.


Did you even read the updated OP?
Corrosive
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada3741 Posts
August 05 2011 01:13 GMT
#931
On August 05 2011 10:05 AzTec wrote:
Anyone else sympathizing with coach Lee a fuck load?

The way I see it the guys just been trying to run a solid team from the start and basically the whole world is out to get him. I don't think there's anyone else in esports who has had worse luck then him.

Also, fuck everyone who jumped ship. Rain and Puma just seem like young guys who have yet to understand the importance of loyalty but Fruitdealer and Tester are way too old for this shit. They're just straight up shady. Jumping ship from oGs, starting TSL, then jumping ship from there too??? I'd never want to do business with either of those guys unless I want them to bail and stab me in the back later.

There's no doubt in my mind that coach Lee has his fair share of issues but I really feel like he's got a bum rap. He's stood by his team this whole time and is continuing to try and rebuild TSL even after having his star players fuck him over time and time again.

I would love to see any of the dudes who left try to run their own team.



yeah

poor guy, holding money from players that are supposed to be payed and then lying about it
Maruprime.
Tektos
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia1321 Posts
August 05 2011 01:22 GMT
#932
On August 05 2011 08:04 GoldenGun wrote:
I always knew EG was the good guys.


This is my opinion reflected perfectly.

Lee just doesn't seem like the most ethical character.
MetalLobster
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada532 Posts
August 05 2011 01:24 GMT
#933
On August 05 2011 09:54 pookadin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2011 09:44 OptimusYale wrote:
So wait...because TSL are out of SC2Con and there are no ramifications for not paying...Im guessing the 2 players aren't getting their money.....lame!


What about the money sacrified by Clide and Killer? Looking at this it looks like they were guilted out of that money. They should be compensated..


Yea I can't imagine how pissed they must be right now. Unless they get a new coach that can patch things up, I sense TSL disbanding.
windsupernova
Profile Joined October 2010
Mexico5280 Posts
August 05 2011 01:27 GMT
#934
I still dont get why people are bringing up EG right now. This has nothing to do with them
"Its easy, just trust your CPU".-Boxer on being good at games
iansanew
Profile Joined July 2011
New Zealand86 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-05 01:27:51
August 05 2011 01:27 GMT
#935
On August 05 2011 10:07 spybreak wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2011 10:05 AzTec wrote:
Anyone else sympathizing with coach Lee a fuck load?

The way I see it the guys just been trying to run a solid team from the start and basically the whole world is out to get him. I don't think there's anyone else in esports who has had worse luck then him.

Also, fuck everyone who jumped ship. Rain and Puma just seem like young guys who have yet to understand the importance of loyalty but Fruitdealer and Tester are way too old for this shit. They're just straight up shady. Jumping ship from oGs, starting TSL, then jumping ship from there too??? I'd never want to do business with either of those guys unless I want them to bail and stab me in the back later.

There's no doubt in my mind that coach Lee has his fair share of issues but I really feel like he's got a bum rap. He's stood by his team this whole time and is continuing to try and rebuild TSL even after having his star players fuck him over time and time again.

I would love to see any of the dudes who left try to run their own team.


Did you even read the updated OP?


yeah... aztec.. not the most informed opinion there. from the updated OP and taking into account how Lee handled Puma leaving... it seems like Lee is one of those shady businessmen trying to get every penny he can without the team noticing.
Veldril
Profile Joined August 2010
Thailand1817 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-05 01:29:06
August 05 2011 01:28 GMT
#936
On August 05 2011 10:22 Tektos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2011 08:04 GoldenGun wrote:
I always knew EG was the good guys.


This is my opinion reflected perfectly.

Lee just doesn't seem like the most ethical character.


To me, they are both like two bad guys trying to kill each other so one would conquer the world

But I would say EG case and this case are separate issue so there's no point comparing them.
Without love, we can't see anything. Without love, the truth can't be seen. - Umineko no Naku Koro Ni
AzTec
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada178 Posts
August 05 2011 01:29 GMT
#937
On August 05 2011 10:07 spybreak wrote:
Did you even read the updated OP?


Yeap and I still feel this way.

On August 05 2011 10:13 Corrosive wrote:
yeah

poor guy, holding money from players that are supposed to be payed and then lying about it


So says one side, the side that happens to hold all the cards.

The ST manager is obviously going to back FD&T and he's the head of the organization holding this hearing to boot, how is that at all fair for TSL? Everything is stacked against Coach Lee in this hearing.

The original article outlines it clear as day, BOTH sides are at fault and yet 100% of the blame in this thread is being placed on Coach Lee. I never said he was a saint I said I sympathize with him because it seems like all he gets is hate when he's dealing with the very difficult situation of never seeming to have his players behind him.
pdd
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia9933 Posts
August 05 2011 01:29 GMT
#938
On August 05 2011 10:07 spybreak wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2011 10:05 AzTec wrote:
Anyone else sympathizing with coach Lee a fuck load?

The way I see it the guys just been trying to run a solid team from the start and basically the whole world is out to get him. I don't think there's anyone else in esports who has had worse luck then him.

Also, fuck everyone who jumped ship. Rain and Puma just seem like young guys who have yet to understand the importance of loyalty but Fruitdealer and Tester are way too old for this shit. They're just straight up shady. Jumping ship from oGs, starting TSL, then jumping ship from there too??? I'd never want to do business with either of those guys unless I want them to bail and stab me in the back later.

There's no doubt in my mind that coach Lee has his fair share of issues but I really feel like he's got a bum rap. He's stood by his team this whole time and is continuing to try and rebuild TSL even after having his star players fuck him over time and time again.

I would love to see any of the dudes who left try to run their own team.


Did you even read the updated OP?

While I'm quite shocked about his actions based on the updated OP, I'm kind of wondering what SangHo, Clide and the other remaining TSL members feel about this new accusations. I'd imagine if they were in the dark about this, and are now finding out about this, they may look to get Lee out or get out themselves.

Alternatively, FD and Trickster could have been exaggerating their part of story and the other remaining TSL members don't share their views.

I mean it's weird that FD and Trickster had left nearly a month back, but are only now making these accusations. And we haven't heard anything from Clide/SangHo/etc.
TI4 Champions: EE-Sama | B7-God | A-God_2000 | Kappa Lord | pieliedie
CeriseCherries
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
6170 Posts
August 05 2011 01:31 GMT
#939
Read the translate startale message. It was massive in affecting my opinon

Frankly the only people i feel bad for are Clide and Killer. Both are excellent players that have apparently suffered under subpar management. And as a devout FD fan, I feel bad for FD too because your coach should be the honest person.

For all of Coach Lee's accusations of shadiness towards EG, could it be that he is afraid the Puma would defame him? I really think that he is not an admirable person, but one that tried to hide for as long as possible what he was really doing. It makes me sad, because I loved TSL and now its just falling apart
Remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
OPL3SA2
Profile Joined April 2011
United States378 Posts
August 05 2011 01:36 GMT
#940
As soon as I deciphered the TSL Puma scenario, I had already figured out that Mr. Lee was a bad person who wanted to make sure that Puma's arrival in the states was not well recieved by foreign fans. he did this by running to the press with lies surrounding puma's departure.

This is just more of the same. Much of this just happened to occur before the Puma incident, we are just learning about the specifics now. To the people who feel bad for Mr. Lee - are you really that naive?
Playoffs? You're talking about playoffs?
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