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On August 05 2011 10:29 AzTec wrote:Yeap and I still feel this way. Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 10:13 Corrosive wrote:
yeah
poor guy, holding money from players that are supposed to be payed and then lying about it So says one side, the side that happens to hold all the cards. The ST manager is obviously going to back FD&T and he's the head of the organization holding this hearing to boot, how is that at all fair for TSL? Everything is stacked against Coach Lee in this hearing. The original article outlines it clear as day, BOTH sides are at fault and yet 100% of the blame in this thread is being placed on Coach Lee. I never said he was a saint I said I sympathize with him because it seems like all he gets is hate when he's dealing with the very difficult situation of never seeming to have his players behind him.
He was in a room surrounded by people who support esports - a jury of his own peers. He was found guilty. Can you honestly tell me how many times in the history of mankind that a small tribunal of people in a miniscule community have condemned the actions of someone they actually love - only to be completely wrong about all of their conclusions? + Show Spoiler +
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I guess the real face of TSL becomes visible, peace by peace.
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On August 05 2011 10:29 AzTec wrote:Yeap and I still feel this way. Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 10:13 Corrosive wrote:
yeah
poor guy, holding money from players that are supposed to be payed and then lying about it So says one side, the side that happens to hold all the cards. The ST manager is obviously going to back FD&T and he's the head of the organization holding this hearing to boot, how is that at all fair for TSL? Everything is stacked against Coach Lee in this hearing. The original article outlines it clear as day, BOTH sides are at fault and yet 100% of the blame in this thread is being placed on Coach Lee. I never said he was a saint I said I sympathize with him because it seems like all he gets is hate when he's dealing with the very difficult situation of never seeming to have his players behind him.
How is it fair?
The very difficult situation is caused mainly by him. Puma situation is complicated, the player wanted to leave as well as he himself enjoying the foreign scene and able to win more tournaments, EG offering him a chance for that. (even if Puma had a contract, he could leave after it is finished if he so desires and if EG still want to get him recruited.)
The coache certainly didn't do the right thing on "motivating" the players to "work harder" by doing acts like holding the wage and lying etc. How it is fair for the players?
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It seems like Coach Lee should stick to coaching and another manager should be appointed. This is another case of unprofessionalism having serious consequences for the team (and it sucks, the team is full of talent). Regardless of personal feelings for the guy and whether what he did was unethical/wrong or justified, it wasn't legal. Lee continually puts personal actions/reactions before sponsor and player interests (and law); it isn't good practice. All the recent trouble with TSL shows the kind of impact that it can have on a team. Hope TSL sorts this stuff out.
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That message from Startales manager made Coach lee look like a scammer or an extortionist.
Where did all the money go?!
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and people wonder why EG "Sniped" a player from TSL.......... um because the players weren't getting paid..... DUH!!
one other thing to note. minor as it may be. SlayerS is not listed as being in the SC2 Conference. nor Startale
"SC2Con members - Manager of oGs Park Sang Ik (TheWinD), Manager of Prime Park Wea Shik (Gerrard), Manager of MVP Choi Yoon Sang, Manager of NSHoseo Park Yung Sik, Manager of FXOKorea Lee Hyung Seop (Choya), Manager of ZeNEX Yoon Hee Won, Manager of IM Kang Dong Hoon and the President of SC2 Players Association Park Gyung Lak (Junwi)."
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On August 05 2011 10:29 AzTec wrote:Yeap and I still feel this way. Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 10:13 Corrosive wrote:
yeah
poor guy, holding money from players that are supposed to be payed and then lying about it So says one side, the side that happens to hold all the cards. The ST manager is obviously going to back FD&T and he's the head of the organization holding this hearing to boot, how is that at all fair for TSL? Everything is stacked against Coach Lee in this hearing. The original article outlines it clear as day, BOTH sides are at fault and yet 100% of the blame in this thread is being placed on Coach Lee. I never said he was a saint I said I sympathize with him because it seems like all he gets is hate when he's dealing with the very difficult situation of never seeming to have his players behind him.
He wouldn't be hated if he was more responsible. His players wouldn't bail if he did a better job running the team. TSL management did this to themselves.
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On August 05 2011 10:27 windsupernova wrote:
I still dont get why people are bringing up EG right now. This has nothing to do with them
Because Coach Lee ran to the press and spread lies whilst playing the victim. Many people brushed it off as him not having all the facts and taking his word for it. This new information is very much relevant because it shines a light on his real character and paints those events in a different context.
EDIT Although it should be really fucking obvious by now, let's not get the pitchforks out just yet. Let's wait a few days and see if any new information pops up, we don't need yet another unwarranted TL.net shitstorm.
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Wow, it seems that if what StarTale and FD are saying, Coach Lee is looking even worse after all this.
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On August 05 2011 11:04 Ziggitz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 10:27 windsupernova wrote:
I still dont get why people are bringing up EG right now. This has nothing to do with them Because Coach Lee ran to the press and spread lies whilst playing the victim. Many people brushed it off as him not having all the facts and taking his word for it. This new information is very much relevant because it shines a light on his real character and paints those events in a different context. EDIT Although it should be really fucking obvious by now, let's not get the pitchforks out just yet. Let's wait a few days and see if any new information pops up, we don't need yet another unwarranted TL.net shitstorm.
What lies did he spread regarding the EG incident?
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On August 05 2011 11:04 Ziggitz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 10:27 windsupernova wrote:
I still dont get why people are bringing up EG right now. This has nothing to do with them Because Coach Lee ran to the press and spread lies whilst playing the victim. Many people brushed it off as him not having all the facts and taking his word for it. This new information is very much relevant because it shines a light on his real character and paints those events in a different context.
It's not really relevant at all. All the same issues hold true in the EG case. This only shines light on why Puma might've wanted to leave, but EG were still poaching Puma.
There doesn't always need to be 1 good guy and 1 bad guy, Coach Lee being a jerk(I don't really feel he is for holding the wages, but because he lied about the sponsors) doesn't automatically make EG better.
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On August 05 2011 10:36 OPL3SA2 wrote:
As soon as I deciphered the TSL Puma scenario, I had already figured out that Mr. Lee was a bad person who wanted to make sure that Puma's arrival in the states was not well recieved by foreign fans. he did this by running to the press with lies surrounding puma's departure.
This is just more of the same. Much of this just happened to occur before the Puma incident, we are just learning about the specifics now. To the people who feel bad for Mr. Lee - are you really that naive?
I couldn't agree more. Mr. Lee's behavior from the start has seemed, at best, uncouth. I can't say I'm surprised in the slightest that he's essentially been stealing from his own players.
I don't see TSL lasting much longer.
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On August 05 2011 11:02 metbull wrote:
and people wonder why EG "Sniped" a player from TSL.......... um because the players weren't getting paid..... DUH!!
one other thing to note. minor as it may be. SlayerS is not listed as being in the SC2 Conference. nor Startale
"SC2Con members - Manager of oGs Park Sang Ik (TheWinD), Manager of Prime Park Wea Shik (Gerrard), Manager of MVP Choi Yoon Sang, Manager of NSHoseo Park Yung Sik, Manager of FXOKorea Lee Hyung Seop (Choya), Manager of ZeNEX Yoon Hee Won, Manager of IM Kang Dong Hoon and the President of SC2 Players Association Park Gyung Lak (Junwi)."
The president of this association is StarTale's manager.
Teams not part of the association include WMF, SlayerS, and now TSL. WMF is probably not part of it because it is a KeSPA-sanctioned team, and it would be incredibly awkward for it to be a part of a rival organization, so to speak. Additionally, WMF doesn't really have a "real" SC2 team; all the SC2 players are actually contracted to play WC3 and pretty much dabble in SC2 in their downtime when there aren't WC3 tournaments around for them. (As an aside, yes, Moon still plays WC3. Rumors have been floating around about him playing SC2 full-time now, but that is definitely not true. He's contracted to play WC3 for WMF until sometime next year.)
No idea why SlayerS isn't in it, to be honest, though I've heard tell that they're considered "partners" of the association, whatever that means. Don't know if that's accurate though, so definitely don't quote me on that.
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On August 05 2011 11:12 Zarahtra wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 11:04 Ziggitz wrote:On August 05 2011 10:27 windsupernova wrote:
I still dont get why people are bringing up EG right now. This has nothing to do with them Because Coach Lee ran to the press and spread lies whilst playing the victim. Many people brushed it off as him not having all the facts and taking his word for it. This new information is very much relevant because it shines a light on his real character and paints those events in a different context. It's not really relevant at all. All the same issues hold true in the EG case. This only shines light on why Puma might've wanted to leave, but EG were still poaching Puma. There doesn't always need to be 1 good guy and 1 bad guy, Coach Lee being a jerk(I don't really feel he is for holding the wages, but because he lied about the sponsors) doesn't automatically make EG better.
Did you even read EG's comment about it?
I also think Lee also made a huge deal about Puma leaving and played the "victim". Exaggerated things on the press and made Puma/EG the villain. I'm sad for Puma for all the smashed talked he got from the community without even knowing the true side behind it.
Also how can you consider that a coach? Visiting the team house 2-3 times per MONTH?
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On August 05 2011 11:22 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 11:02 metbull wrote:
and people wonder why EG "Sniped" a player from TSL.......... um because the players weren't getting paid..... DUH!!
one other thing to note. minor as it may be. SlayerS is not listed as being in the SC2 Conference. nor Startale
"SC2Con members - Manager of oGs Park Sang Ik (TheWinD), Manager of Prime Park Wea Shik (Gerrard), Manager of MVP Choi Yoon Sang, Manager of NSHoseo Park Yung Sik, Manager of FXOKorea Lee Hyung Seop (Choya), Manager of ZeNEX Yoon Hee Won, Manager of IM Kang Dong Hoon and the President of SC2 Players Association Park Gyung Lak (Junwi)." The president of this association is StarTale's manager. Teams not part of the association include WMF, SlayerS, and now TSL. WMF is probably not part of it because it is a KeSPA-sanctioned team, and it would be incredibly awkward for it to be a part of a rival organization, so to speak. Additionally, WMF doesn't really have a "real" SC2 team; all the SC2 players are actually contracted to play WC3 and pretty much dabble in SC2 in their downtime when there aren't WC3 tournaments around for them. (As an aside, yes, Moon still plays WC3. Rumors have been floating around about him playing SC2 full-time now, but that is definitely not true. He's contracted to play WC3 for WMF until sometime next year.) No idea why SlayerS isn't in it, to be honest, though I've heard tell that they're considered "partners" of the association, whatever that means. Don't know if that's accurate though, so definitely don't quote me on that.
From what I remember SlayerS was formed after the association was already put into place, and would not be eligible for entry until a year passed or some silly thing like that.
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On August 05 2011 11:24 DarkRise wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 11:12 Zarahtra wrote:On August 05 2011 11:04 Ziggitz wrote:On August 05 2011 10:27 windsupernova wrote:
I still dont get why people are bringing up EG right now. This has nothing to do with them Because Coach Lee ran to the press and spread lies whilst playing the victim. Many people brushed it off as him not having all the facts and taking his word for it. This new information is very much relevant because it shines a light on his real character and paints those events in a different context. It's not really relevant at all. All the same issues hold true in the EG case. This only shines light on why Puma might've wanted to leave, but EG were still poaching Puma. There doesn't always need to be 1 good guy and 1 bad guy, Coach Lee being a jerk(I don't really feel he is for holding the wages, but because he lied about the sponsors) doesn't automatically make EG better. Did you even read EG's comment about it? I also think Lee also made a huge deal about Puma leaving and played the "victim". Exaggerated things on the press and made Puma/EG the villain. I'm sad for Puma for all the smashed talked he got from the community without even knowing the true side behind it. Also how can you consider that a coach? Visiting the team house 2-3 times per MONTH?
Ofcourse I've read their comments about it. It's interesting how that's the first thing people question when people disagree with them.
Maybe Lee did play the victim, but now that the dust has settled, I still feel EG was in the wrong poaching Puma like they did. If Puma wanted to leave, he should start talks with a team, else EG should go through the coach/other team management.
On the definition of coach, I feel is also pretty irrelevant. It just says he's a pretty terrible coach, which I'm not arguing against.
Like I said, I feel this is quite irrelevant. Him being a jerk, doesn't automatically change how things went down in the EG situation.
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I've never heard of the "SC2 Conference" before this. Perhaps I am too out of touch.
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It's a sister organization with the player union. It doesn't really do much in comparison to we're used to in BW.
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all i can say is............ wow
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nothing is going well for Lee ... i almost feel bad for him
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EPT
