• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 03:13
CET 08:13
KST 16:13
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT29Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled3Blizzard Classic Cup - Tastosis announced as captains12Weekly Cups (March 2-8): ByuN overcomes PvT block4GSL CK - New online series18BSL Season 224
StarCraft 2
General
Terran AddOns placement BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced Blizzard Classic Cup - Tastosis announced as captains Team Liquid Map Contest - Preparation Notice
Tourneys
[GSL CK] Team Maru vs. Team herO WardiTV Team League Season 10 Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) RSL Season 4 announced for March-April Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026] Map Editor closed ?
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 516 Specter of Death Mutation # 515 Together Forever Mutation # 514 Ulnar New Year
Brood War
General
ASL21 General Discussion BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Gypsy to Korea Are you ready for ASL 21? Hype VIDEO
Tourneys
[BSL22] Open Qualifiers & Ladder Tours [Megathread] Daily Proleagues IPSL Spring 2026 is here! ASL Season 21 Qualifiers March 7-8
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Fighting Spirit mining rates Zealot bombing is no longer popular?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread PC Games Sales Thread Path of Exile No Man's Sky (PS4 and PC) Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Mexico's Drug War US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread NASA and the Private Sector Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread General nutrition recommendations Cricket [SPORT] TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
Gaming-Related Deaths
TrAiDoS
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1702 users

'TSL expelled from SC2 Conference' - Page 50

Forum Index > SC2 General
1124 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 48 49 50 51 52 57 Next
JerKy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Korea (South)3013 Posts
August 05 2011 04:09 GMT
#981
Oh man Coach Lee must be stressed so much right now
You can type "StarCraft" with just your left hand.
Carbonthief
Profile Joined October 2010
United States289 Posts
August 05 2011 04:11 GMT
#982
On August 05 2011 10:36 OPL3SA2 wrote:
As soon as I deciphered the TSL Puma scenario, I had already figured out that Mr. Lee was a bad person who wanted to make sure that Puma's arrival in the states was not well recieved by foreign fans. he did this by running to the press with lies surrounding puma's departure.

This is just more of the same. Much of this just happened to occur before the Puma incident, we are just learning about the specifics now. To the people who feel bad for Mr. Lee - are you really that naive?


I agree with this post wholeheartedly. I knew something was wrong when Mr. Lee took it upon himself to attempt to ruin Puma's image. Any other reasonable coach would have released a statement saying they're sad to see their player go but they wish him well in his future. That's the normal, rational response, EVEN IF you were wronged, that is what most people in that position would do, because that's professionalism, and that is how you do business. You don't burn bridges, you don't do anything that might make you out to be a bad guy, you don't want to ever be seen speaking critically, you only want your positive views to be in the public eye.

The way he handled the situation was disgustingly vindictive and unprofessional, and I lost all respect for him because of it, and I am not surprised by this new turn of events.
andrea20
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada441 Posts
August 05 2011 04:18 GMT
#983
On August 05 2011 13:11 Carbonthief wrote:
I knew something was wrong when Mr. Lee took it upon himself to attempt to ruin Puma's image. Any other reasonable coach would have released a statement saying they're sad to see their player go but they wish him well in his future. That's the normal, rational response, EVEN IF you were wronged, that is what most people in that position would do, because that's professionalism, and that is how you do business. You don't burn bridges, you don't do anything that might make you out to be a bad guy, you don't want to ever be seen speaking critically, you only want your positive views to be in the public eye.


Actually, sometimes a spade needs to be called a spade. Not that I completely agree with Mr. Lee's reaction, but at least it was honest instead of him trying to act like someone he isn't.
farnham
Profile Joined January 2011
1378 Posts
August 05 2011 04:22 GMT
#984
On August 05 2011 13:18 andrea20 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2011 13:11 Carbonthief wrote:
I knew something was wrong when Mr. Lee took it upon himself to attempt to ruin Puma's image. Any other reasonable coach would have released a statement saying they're sad to see their player go but they wish him well in his future. That's the normal, rational response, EVEN IF you were wronged, that is what most people in that position would do, because that's professionalism, and that is how you do business. You don't burn bridges, you don't do anything that might make you out to be a bad guy, you don't want to ever be seen speaking critically, you only want your positive views to be in the public eye.


Actually, sometimes a spade needs to be called a spade. Not that I completely agree with Mr. Lee's reaction, but at least it was honest instead of him trying to act like someone he isn't.

yeah its really honest to conclude a contract an not pay your players hafter receiving the payment by the sponsors and saying that the sponsors didnt pay jack shit

its really honest to call puma out and act like TSL nurtured puma when they didnt even have a real contract and puma wasnt even salaried or anything

its really honest to call FD and Trickster lazy and dont pay them because they did not attend to the training when the very reason why FD and Trickster joined that team was that they were promissed a free practicing schedule
Xxavi
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1248 Posts
August 05 2011 04:29 GMT
#985
From all of this, Coach Lee looks like an asshole and a dick. I sympathized with him in the Puma-EG saga, but little did I know.

1. FD and Tester created TSL, along with Lee. They left oGs because they wanted to be lazy. They created TSL because they wanted to be lazy. Lee agreed with this, and created the team with those two. Lee also decided to pay these two.
2. Consequently, Lee could not have or rather should not have expected anything different. They were being lazy, like promised. Is it bad? May be, but not in this context, because it was agreed upon before creation of TSL. Sure, he could have talked to them in a straightforward manner and asked them to leave, but lying, not obliging the contracts, defaming, using their images and all other stuff mentioned in the articles are Lee's mistakes and problems.
3. Particularly disgusting is the fact that Lee mixed his personal PC Cafe business with this. Taking old computers? My God, how dirty is this guy? Lying about wages and expenditures? Truly terrible.

Hope Lee crumbles.
darkest44
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1009 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-05 05:06:42
August 05 2011 05:00 GMT
#986
Sounds like Mr Lee has fucked up and handled things poorly. At the same time though, I'd probably have a hard time keeping my cool too with fruitdealer and trickster on my team. Have a little bit of success, get signed on for top salaries, then stop practicing and party and still expect to get paid one of the top salaries in sc2 when you're surrounded by kids working 10x harder than you and putting up better results and not getting paid squat, total douchebag move.

Doesn't excuse mr lee of course though, he got himself in the mess by signing a shitty contract, he should pay up. Just goes to show you, contracts need to be very specific, should require certain amount of practice at the very least, just like a job requires you to actually work to get paid.
sc2guy
Profile Joined November 2010
291 Posts
August 05 2011 05:07 GMT
#987
On August 05 2011 12:11 Arijevska wrote:
So moral of this story is:
EG = good guys
Koreans = hypocrites


This is the worst post I have read so far in this thread. I give you the benefit of doubt that you are trying to be funny but fail nonetheless.
✿◕‿◕✿ Taeng
Hermasaurus
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
54 Posts
August 05 2011 05:20 GMT
#988
On August 05 2011 13:22 farnham wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2011 13:18 andrea20 wrote:
On August 05 2011 13:11 Carbonthief wrote:
I knew something was wrong when Mr. Lee took it upon himself to attempt to ruin Puma's image. Any other reasonable coach would have released a statement saying they're sad to see their player go but they wish him well in his future. That's the normal, rational response, EVEN IF you were wronged, that is what most people in that position would do, because that's professionalism, and that is how you do business. You don't burn bridges, you don't do anything that might make you out to be a bad guy, you don't want to ever be seen speaking critically, you only want your positive views to be in the public eye.


Actually, sometimes a spade needs to be called a spade. Not that I completely agree with Mr. Lee's reaction, but at least it was honest instead of him trying to act like someone he isn't.

yeah its really honest to conclude a contract an not pay your players hafter receiving the payment by the sponsors and saying that the sponsors didnt pay jack shit

its really honest to call puma out and act like TSL nurtured puma when they didnt even have a real contract and puma wasnt even salaried or anything

its really honest to call FD and Trickster lazy and dont pay them because they did not attend to the training when the very reason why FD and Trickster joined that team was that they were promissed a free practicing schedule


Can you keep going with the honesty analogies? I don't think we understand yet.

Also I'm 100% sure that andrea20 was talking about Lee's reaction to Puma, not Lee's image as a whole. But I'm glad you interpreted it as a window to convey your honesty analogies, although it clearly wasn't a proper window.

I'm also 100% positive when Coach Lee "nurtured" Puma, it was in the sense of 3 hots a cot, and a practice environment that allowed him to build his SC2 skills which in turn led him to winning a NASL.

If we learned one thing in your post and previous ones apart from this, it would be your ill repute towards Coach Lee that you display in every thread at every opportunity. Write a blog.
And guess what, you've wandered into our school of tuna and we now have a taste of lion. We've talked to ourselves. We've communicated and said 'You know what, lion tastes good, let's go get some more lion'
FairForever
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada2392 Posts
August 05 2011 05:24 GMT
#989
On August 05 2011 14:07 sc2guy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2011 12:11 Arijevska wrote:
So moral of this story is:
EG = good guys
Koreans = hypocrites


This is the worst post I have read so far in this thread. I give you the benefit of doubt that you are trying to be funny but fail nonetheless.


Obviously he was trolling, but I think it was to make fun of the people who said in the other thread that koreans were based on trust and truthfulness (haha) and North Americans were not.
Seide
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States831 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-05 05:28:03
August 05 2011 05:26 GMT
#990
On August 05 2011 13:29 Xxavi wrote:
From all of this, Coach Lee looks like an asshole and a dick. I sympathized with him in the Puma-EG saga, but little did I know.

1. FD and Tester created TSL, along with Lee. They left oGs because they wanted to be lazy. They created TSL because they wanted to be lazy. Lee agreed with this, and created the team with those two. Lee also decided to pay these two.
2. Consequently, Lee could not have or rather should not have expected anything different. They were being lazy, like promised. Is it bad? May be, but not in this context, because it was agreed upon before creation of TSL. Sure, he could have talked to them in a straightforward manner and asked them to leave, but lying, not obliging the contracts, defaming, using their images and all other stuff mentioned in the articles are Lee's mistakes and problems.
3. Particularly disgusting is the fact that Lee mixed his personal PC Cafe business with this. Taking old computers? My God, how dirty is this guy? Lying about wages and expenditures? Truly terrible.

Hope Lee crumbles.

ok man, wanting a flexible training schedule != being lazy. You won't even become a entry level progamer by being lazy.

You can still have a flexible training schedule and put in a lot of work.

FD & Tester are older progamers, some of the first to switch from SC1 from SC2, its understandable for them wanting to have game/live balance at this point.

You don't see Nada living in oGs house or adhering the training schedules that other members follow, but he still puts in his time and practice on his own.
One fish, two fish, red fish, blue fish.
Sogetsu
Profile Joined July 2011
514 Posts
August 05 2011 05:31 GMT
#991
Oh man, before it was "Oh bad EG, poor coach Lee" , but now it turned out...

Good Thing for PuMa, Clide, Rain and Trickster they left TSL

Feels bad for the other TSL members, Coach Lee does not seem to be what it were
Raptor: "Es hora de salvar a los E-Sports..." http://i3.minus.com/ibtne3liprtByB.png
insomdapowahouz
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada58 Posts
August 05 2011 05:50 GMT
#992
tl;dr version?

User was warned for this post
Seide
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States831 Posts
August 05 2011 05:54 GMT
#993
On August 05 2011 14:50 insomdapowahouz wrote:
tl;dr version?

tl;dr:
If you cant take 5 minutes of your time to read a few paragraphs, you obviously don't care enough to need a tl;dr version.
One fish, two fish, red fish, blue fish.
Robinsa
Profile Joined May 2009
Japan1333 Posts
August 05 2011 05:58 GMT
#994
Mr Lee has shown that he's not able to run the business side of TSL several times. Just look at the EG deal for one. He needs to grow up and get another job. Resign Lee.
4649!!
Robinsa
Profile Joined May 2009
Japan1333 Posts
August 05 2011 06:02 GMT
#995
On August 05 2011 14:20 Hermasaurus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2011 13:22 farnham wrote:
On August 05 2011 13:18 andrea20 wrote:
On August 05 2011 13:11 Carbonthief wrote:
I knew something was wrong when Mr. Lee took it upon himself to attempt to ruin Puma's image. Any other reasonable coach would have released a statement saying they're sad to see their player go but they wish him well in his future. That's the normal, rational response, EVEN IF you were wronged, that is what most people in that position would do, because that's professionalism, and that is how you do business. You don't burn bridges, you don't do anything that might make you out to be a bad guy, you don't want to ever be seen speaking critically, you only want your positive views to be in the public eye.


Actually, sometimes a spade needs to be called a spade. Not that I completely agree with Mr. Lee's reaction, but at least it was honest instead of him trying to act like someone he isn't.

yeah its really honest to conclude a contract an not pay your players hafter receiving the payment by the sponsors and saying that the sponsors didnt pay jack shit

its really honest to call puma out and act like TSL nurtured puma when they didnt even have a real contract and puma wasnt even salaried or anything

its really honest to call FD and Trickster lazy and dont pay them because they did not attend to the training when the very reason why FD and Trickster joined that team was that they were promissed a free practicing schedule

I'm afraid it doesnt mean anything. Puma is a free man to do what he want and so he did. TSL should have had contracts because that's how it works in the rest of the world. Just loom at the commercial world where headhunting is very common.
Can you keep going with the honesty analogies? I don't think we understand yet.

Also I'm 100% sure that andrea20 was talking about Lee's reaction to Puma, not Lee's image as a whole. But I'm glad you interpreted it as a window to convey your honesty analogies, although it clearly wasn't a proper window.

I'm also 100% positive when Coach Lee "nurtured" Puma, it was in the sense of 3 hots a cot, and a practice environment that allowed him to build his SC2 skills which in turn led him to winning a NASL.

If we learned one thing in your post and previous ones apart from this, it would be your ill repute towards Coach Lee that you display in every thread at every opportunity. Write a blog.

4649!!
IslandLife
Profile Joined March 2011
21 Posts
August 05 2011 06:13 GMT
#996
The Puma/EG ordeal already convinced me Mr. Lee was shady and most likely pocketing money. This just reaffirms my suspicions.

That was some pretty strong language in the statement by SC2Con. Koreans take public shame/disgrace EXTREMELY seriously. They wouldn't put that out there with gruesome detail if they weren't fed up with Mr. Lee.

It ain't hard to read between the lines and see Mr. Lee is siphoning money off of the team. Rather disgusting really. It scares me that some people are still defending him.
Yah mon!
Hazardous
Profile Joined June 2011
United States4 Posts
August 05 2011 06:15 GMT
#997
Glad to see that the players while being bullied initially are now getting their dues.
I wouldn't want the same to happen to me or anyone else in a situation similar to this, especially my career path.
Hopefully eSports can continue to uphold good morals and demonstrate behavior to be used by rewarding the correct, and punishing the wrong.
histrionic
Profile Joined October 2010
United States34 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-05 06:26:03
August 05 2011 06:24 GMT
#998
It doesn't say if Coach Lee is going to pay those "fines."

(note: I'm just going to refer to TSL/CoachLee as TSL. I'm not suggesting the team of players be punished)

Ok so TSL has been "expelled" or withdrawn from the SC2Con as the SC2Con said would happen if TSL didn't pay the ordered reparations. What "further measures" can SC2Con really take if they can't enforce these "monetary disciplinary actions" and aren't going to ban/tempban TSL from league play? (I'm not saying they SHOULD ban TSL)
Does TSL even really lose anything from withdrawing/being banned from SC2Con (besides losing rep)?

I guess I'm mostly questioning the usefulness of this SC2Con if it has no real power.
JustPassingBy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
10776 Posts
August 05 2011 06:36 GMT
#999
On August 05 2011 13:22 farnham wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2011 13:18 andrea20 wrote:
On August 05 2011 13:11 Carbonthief wrote:
I knew something was wrong when Mr. Lee took it upon himself to attempt to ruin Puma's image. Any other reasonable coach would have released a statement saying they're sad to see their player go but they wish him well in his future. That's the normal, rational response, EVEN IF you were wronged, that is what most people in that position would do, because that's professionalism, and that is how you do business. You don't burn bridges, you don't do anything that might make you out to be a bad guy, you don't want to ever be seen speaking critically, you only want your positive views to be in the public eye.


Actually, sometimes a spade needs to be called a spade. Not that I completely agree with Mr. Lee's reaction, but at least it was honest instead of him trying to act like someone he isn't.

yeah its really honest to conclude a contract an not pay your players hafter receiving the payment by the sponsors and saying that the sponsors didnt pay jack shit

its really honest to call puma out and act like TSL nurtured puma when they didnt even have a real contract and puma wasnt even salaried or anything

its really honest to call FD and Trickster lazy and dont pay them because they did not attend to the training when the very reason why FD and Trickster joined that team was that they were promissed a free practicing schedule


Well, according to Mr. Lee the players were not showing up to training for over a month, so yeah. On the one side, you should pay your players if you have a contract with them, but on the other side, should you really pay somebody because of his work contract even though he did not work at all?
IslandLife
Profile Joined March 2011
21 Posts
August 05 2011 06:42 GMT
#1000
On August 05 2011 15:24 histrionic wrote:
It doesn't say if Coach Lee is going to pay those "fines."

(note: I'm just going to refer to TSL/CoachLee as TSL. I'm not suggesting the team of players be punished)

Ok so TSL has been "expelled" or withdrawn from the SC2Con as the SC2Con said would happen if TSL didn't pay the ordered reparations. What "further measures" can SC2Con really take if they can't enforce these "monetary disciplinary actions" and aren't going to ban/tempban TSL from league play? (I'm not saying they SHOULD ban TSL)
Does TSL even really lose anything from withdrawing/being banned from SC2Con (besides losing rep)?

I guess I'm mostly questioning the usefulness of this SC2Con if it has no real power.


If SC2Con thought Mr. Lee was an okay guy who just made a few mistakes, they wouldn't have released that to the public.

I'd say SC2Con released this because they want Mr. Lee out of the business. The teams in SC2Con have to protect their business by trying to keep the public image of SC2 teams clean. I'm sure most of the managers care about their players and the game itself as well.

A few sponsors will most likely withdraw now. TSL would dissolve and the players could join other teams or get a new coach who isn't a shyster (hopefully).

If you have young kids signing dubious contracts (or not even on contracts...ahem...) it makes court cases difficult, if not impossible. I think SC2Con's approach is rather admirable. It's great they are doing what they can.
Yah mon!
Prev 1 48 49 50 51 52 57 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 16h 47m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SortOf 54
StarCraft: Brood War
sSak 194
Leta 124
EffOrt 94
Backho 52
Bale 13
Dota 2
XaKoH 419
NeuroSwarm118
League of Legends
JimRising 743
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K735
m0e_tv423
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor88
Other Games
summit1g4255
C9.Mang0269
Happy150
Sick118
Hui .115
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick951
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• practicex 53
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo1284
• Stunt637
• HappyZerGling116
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
16h 47m
CranKy Ducklings
1d 2h
RSL Revival
1d 2h
MaxPax vs Rogue
Clem vs Bunny
WardiTV Team League
1d 4h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 9h
Patches Events
1d 9h
BSL
1d 12h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
ByuN vs SHIN
Maru vs Krystianer
WardiTV Team League
2 days
[ Show More ]
BSL
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
WardiTV Team League
4 days
GSL
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
WardiTV Team League
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-12
WardiTV Winter 2026
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
BSL Season 22
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

CSL Elite League 2026
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
2026 Changsha Offline CUP
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
CSLAN 4
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
NationLESS Cup
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.