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'TSL expelled from SC2 Conference' - Page 49

Forum Index > SC2 General
1124 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 47 48 49 50 51 57 Next
skeldark
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany2223 Posts
August 05 2011 02:54 GMT
#961
one say this , other say that. What we know for sure is : SHIT!
so stop guessing around and blame site a or b. they blame each other enough.

Is this a newspaper about royalty for woman over 50 or a website for sc2?
Save gaming: kill esport
Ziggitz
Profile Joined September 2010
United States340 Posts
August 05 2011 02:57 GMT
#962
On August 05 2011 11:35 Zarahtra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2011 11:24 DarkRise wrote:
On August 05 2011 11:12 Zarahtra wrote:
On August 05 2011 11:04 Ziggitz wrote:
On August 05 2011 10:27 windsupernova wrote:
I still dont get why people are bringing up EG right now. This has nothing to do with them


Because Coach Lee ran to the press and spread lies whilst playing the victim. Many people brushed it off as him not having all the facts and taking his word for it. This new information is very much relevant because it shines a light on his real character and paints those events in a different context.

It's not really relevant at all. All the same issues hold true in the EG case. This only shines light on why Puma might've wanted to leave, but EG were still poaching Puma.

There doesn't always need to be 1 good guy and 1 bad guy, Coach Lee being a jerk(I don't really feel he is for holding the wages, but because he lied about the sponsors) doesn't automatically make EG better.


Did you even read EG's comment about it?
I also think Lee also made a huge deal about Puma leaving and played the "victim". Exaggerated things on the press and made Puma/EG the villain. I'm sad for Puma for all the smashed talked he got from the community without even knowing the true side behind it.
Also how can you consider that a coach? Visiting the team house 2-3 times per MONTH?

Ofcourse I've read their comments about it. It's interesting how that's the first thing people question when people disagree with them.

Maybe Lee did play the victim, but now that the dust has settled, I still feel EG was in the wrong poaching Puma like they did. If Puma wanted to leave, he should start talks with a team, else EG should go through the coach/other team management.

On the definition of coach, I feel is also pretty irrelevant. It just says he's a pretty terrible coach, which I'm not arguing against.

Like I said, I feel this is quite irrelevant. Him being a jerk, doesn't automatically change how things went down in the EG situation.


What? EG didn't poach Puma, they spoke to him. Coach Lee was the one that claimed that they had signed him before speaking to him which they hadn't. Given the timing of this tribunal and the timing of the EG/TSL drama it was likely known what was going down in TSL by everyone from FriuitDealer and Trickster(tribunals don't exactly pop the day after a dispute is aired, these things take time). Given this, Puma who was offered a salaried contract from EG had to consider players who weren't getting paid and being lied to as well as a very sticky situation regarding the advertising displaying FD and T's images. Meanwhile Lee runs to the presses and outright lies about the situation and plays the victim portraying EG in a bad light.

This notion that EG merely speaking to Puma as being unprofessional is total bullshit. They took absolutely no action besides gauging Puma's interest and agreed that he should go talk to his coach before they proceed any further. It took a long time for Puma to talk to his coach and from the information we're receiving now,(IF it holds to be true) shows that Puma likely didn't have much respect for his coach given the drama that was going down at the time and the fact that he rarely even shows up. The fatherly role facade was shown to be bullshit and the whole circumstances under which the deal seemed to be unethical are likely entirely fabricated.

If your whole argument is going to be "he should have gone to the coach first" without any context or justification as to why it holds any relevance in this specific case or in SC2 in general then I really don't care about your opinion. The context of how and why things went down the way they did is clearly important.
GoodRamen
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States713 Posts
August 05 2011 02:58 GMT
#963
whats the korean netizens response to this?
#1 Fantasy Fan!!!!
sereniity
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Sweden1159 Posts
August 05 2011 03:08 GMT
#964
On August 05 2011 02:50 Corvette wrote:
well we cant really say anything till we know what the contracts said


contracts? please, TSL don't use those ancient things!
"I am Day9, Holy shit!"
Arijevska
Profile Joined February 2011
Serbia41 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-05 03:12:39
August 05 2011 03:11 GMT
#965
So moral of this story is:
EG = good guys
Koreans = hypocrites
Sry for my bad english :(
Perseverance
Profile Joined February 2010
Japan2800 Posts
August 05 2011 03:17 GMT
#966
Dang, poor fruitdealer
<3 Moonbattles
thedz
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States217 Posts
August 05 2011 03:19 GMT
#967
On August 05 2011 12:11 Arijevska wrote:
So moral of this story is:
EG = good guys
Koreans = hypocrites


The true moral is that as with all things in life, wait, research and consider more deeply before jumping to conclusions.

Things are rarely as simple and as clear-cut as they initially appear. Nor are things often fully the fault of one party alone.
Primadog
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4411 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-05 03:29:51
August 05 2011 03:24 GMT
#968
There's no black and white, there's not even shades of grey. Most people go through life without direction, living from moment to moment without a thought over what guiding principles should be dictating their actions.

The sooner our community realize this, and stop trying to paint every drama with a good/bad side, the less likely we will be drawn into a mob every two weeks.
Thank God and gunrun.
Xevious
Profile Joined February 2011
United States2086 Posts
August 05 2011 03:25 GMT
#969
Kind of a good thing the players aren't in it anymore. Disappointing, but good that this happened overall.
windsupernova
Profile Joined October 2010
Mexico5280 Posts
August 05 2011 03:31 GMT
#970
On August 05 2011 12:24 Primadog wrote:
There's no black and white, there's not even shades of grey. Most people go through life without direction, living from moment to moment without a thought over what guiding principles should be dictating their actions.

The sooner our community realize this, and stop trying to paint every drama with a good/bad side, the less likely we will be drawn into a mob every two weeks.


B-b-but how can I hate if there are no Villains?!
"Its easy, just trust your CPU".-Boxer on being good at games
cskalias.pbe
Profile Joined April 2010
United States293 Posts
August 05 2011 03:36 GMT
#971
On August 05 2011 11:12 Zarahtra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2011 11:04 Ziggitz wrote:
On August 05 2011 10:27 windsupernova wrote:
I still dont get why people are bringing up EG right now. This has nothing to do with them


Because Coach Lee ran to the press and spread lies whilst playing the victim. Many people brushed it off as him not having all the facts and taking his word for it. This new information is very much relevant because it shines a light on his real character and paints those events in a different context.

It's not really relevant at all. All the same issues hold true in the EG case. This only shines light on why Puma might've wanted to leave, but EG were still poaching Puma.

There doesn't always need to be 1 good guy and 1 bad guy, Coach Lee being a jerk(I don't really feel he is for holding the wages, but because he lied about the sponsors) doesn't automatically make EG better.


Honestly, i'm fucking sick of this. EG does something that is disrespectful to SOME business standards of the world (and many would just call it "competition") and TL shits on their face. Coach Lee outright embezzles and defrauds his own team and people swoop in to say there are many people at fault. Insanity. Coach Lee sounds like a crook to me. Sure tester and fruitdealer could have practiced more, but if a contract doesn't enforce strict practice, a coach shouldn't sign it if they are not comfortable.

This is so pathetic. To not come off as a total fucking crook, Coach Lee is instead portraying himself as just naive to competition and incompetent in managing his finances.

skiptomylou1231
Profile Joined January 2011
United States63 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-05 03:38:03
August 05 2011 03:37 GMT
#972
In all honesty reading these comments made by the ST president and Fruitdealer and Trickster, it paints a pretty bad picture for Manager Lee. I know alot of people have said that things aren't drawn in black and white, but if half the accusations such as withholding salaries, lying, and even suggestions from the ST president of embezzlement, then Coach Lee really is the bad guy in this situation.
Primadog
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4411 Posts
August 05 2011 03:40 GMT
#973
On August 05 2011 12:31 windsupernova wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2011 12:24 Primadog wrote:
There's no black and white, there's not even shades of grey. Most people go through life without direction, living from moment to moment without a thought over what guiding principles should be dictating their actions.

The sooner our community realize this, and stop trying to paint every drama with a good/bad side, the less likely we will be drawn into a mob every two weeks.


B-b-but how can I hate if there are no Villains?!


There's always EvilGeniuses.
Thank God and gunrun.
trikshun
Profile Joined October 2010
United States437 Posts
August 05 2011 03:41 GMT
#974
On August 05 2011 11:22 babylon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2011 11:02 metbull wrote:
and people wonder why EG "Sniped" a player from TSL.......... um because the players weren't getting paid..... DUH!!
one other thing to note. minor as it may be. SlayerS is not listed as being in the SC2 Conference. nor Startale
"SC2Con members - Manager of oGs Park Sang Ik (TheWinD), Manager of Prime Park Wea Shik (Gerrard), Manager of MVP Choi Yoon Sang, Manager of NSHoseo Park Yung Sik, Manager of FXOKorea Lee Hyung Seop (Choya), Manager of ZeNEX Yoon Hee Won, Manager of IM Kang Dong Hoon and the President of SC2 Players Association Park Gyung Lak (Junwi)."

The president of this association is StarTale's manager.

Teams not part of the association include WMF, SlayerS, and now TSL. WMF is probably not part of it because it is a KeSPA-sanctioned team, and it would be incredibly awkward for it to be a part of a rival organization, so to speak. Additionally, WMF doesn't really have a "real" SC2 team; all the SC2 players are actually contracted to play WC3 and pretty much dabble in SC2 in their downtime when there aren't WC3 tournaments around for them. (As an aside, yes, Moon still plays WC3. Rumors have been floating around about him playing SC2 full-time now, but that is definitely not true. He's contracted to play WC3 for WMF until sometime next year.)

No idea why SlayerS isn't in it, to be honest, though I've heard tell that they're considered "partners" of the association, whatever that means. Don't know if that's accurate though, so definitely don't quote me on that.

The president is on IM not ST its IMJunwi.
MikeTheBike
Profile Joined July 2011
New Zealand136 Posts
August 05 2011 03:42 GMT
#975
I wonder what will happen to the players...
babylon
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
8765 Posts
August 05 2011 03:45 GMT
#976
On August 05 2011 12:41 trikshun wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2011 11:22 babylon wrote:
On August 05 2011 11:02 metbull wrote:
and people wonder why EG "Sniped" a player from TSL.......... um because the players weren't getting paid..... DUH!!
one other thing to note. minor as it may be. SlayerS is not listed as being in the SC2 Conference. nor Startale
"SC2Con members - Manager of oGs Park Sang Ik (TheWinD), Manager of Prime Park Wea Shik (Gerrard), Manager of MVP Choi Yoon Sang, Manager of NSHoseo Park Yung Sik, Manager of FXOKorea Lee Hyung Seop (Choya), Manager of ZeNEX Yoon Hee Won, Manager of IM Kang Dong Hoon and the President of SC2 Players Association Park Gyung Lak (Junwi)."

The president of this association is StarTale's manager.

Teams not part of the association include WMF, SlayerS, and now TSL. WMF is probably not part of it because it is a KeSPA-sanctioned team, and it would be incredibly awkward for it to be a part of a rival organization, so to speak. Additionally, WMF doesn't really have a "real" SC2 team; all the SC2 players are actually contracted to play WC3 and pretty much dabble in SC2 in their downtime when there aren't WC3 tournaments around for them. (As an aside, yes, Moon still plays WC3. Rumors have been floating around about him playing SC2 full-time now, but that is definitely not true. He's contracted to play WC3 for WMF until sometime next year.)

No idea why SlayerS isn't in it, to be honest, though I've heard tell that they're considered "partners" of the association, whatever that means. Don't know if that's accurate though, so definitely don't quote me on that.

The president is on IM not ST its IMJunwi.

Meant the conference, not the association. My bad. I keep conflating the two. Junwi is the president of the association, the ST coach the president of the conference.
Mawi
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden4365 Posts
August 05 2011 03:47 GMT
#977
this is pretty sad
Forever Mirin Zyzz Son of Zeus Brother of Hercules Father of the Aesthetics
ItsMeDomLee
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada2732 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-05 03:52:43
August 05 2011 03:50 GMT
#978
On August 05 2011 11:57 Ziggitz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2011 11:35 Zarahtra wrote:
On August 05 2011 11:24 DarkRise wrote:
On August 05 2011 11:12 Zarahtra wrote:
On August 05 2011 11:04 Ziggitz wrote:
On August 05 2011 10:27 windsupernova wrote:
I still dont get why people are bringing up EG right now. This has nothing to do with them


Because Coach Lee ran to the press and spread lies whilst playing the victim. Many people brushed it off as him not having all the facts and taking his word for it. This new information is very much relevant because it shines a light on his real character and paints those events in a different context.

It's not really relevant at all. All the same issues hold true in the EG case. This only shines light on why Puma might've wanted to leave, but EG were still poaching Puma.

There doesn't always need to be 1 good guy and 1 bad guy, Coach Lee being a jerk(I don't really feel he is for holding the wages, but because he lied about the sponsors) doesn't automatically make EG better.


Did you even read EG's comment about it?
I also think Lee also made a huge deal about Puma leaving and played the "victim". Exaggerated things on the press and made Puma/EG the villain. I'm sad for Puma for all the smashed talked he got from the community without even knowing the true side behind it.
Also how can you consider that a coach? Visiting the team house 2-3 times per MONTH?

Ofcourse I've read their comments about it. It's interesting how that's the first thing people question when people disagree with them.

Maybe Lee did play the victim, but now that the dust has settled, I still feel EG was in the wrong poaching Puma like they did. If Puma wanted to leave, he should start talks with a team, else EG should go through the coach/other team management.

On the definition of coach, I feel is also pretty irrelevant. It just says he's a pretty terrible coach, which I'm not arguing against.

Like I said, I feel this is quite irrelevant. Him being a jerk, doesn't automatically change how things went down in the EG situation.


What? EG didn't poach Puma, they spoke to him. Coach Lee was the one that claimed that they had signed him before speaking to him which they hadn't. Given the timing of this tribunal and the timing of the EG/TSL drama it was likely known what was going down in TSL by everyone from FriuitDealer and Trickster(tribunals don't exactly pop the day after a dispute is aired, these things take time). Given this, Puma who was offered a salaried contract from EG had to consider players who weren't getting paid and being lied to as well as a very sticky situation regarding the advertising displaying FD and T's images. Meanwhile Lee runs to the presses and outright lies about the situation and plays the victim portraying EG in a bad light.

This notion that EG merely speaking to Puma as being unprofessional is total bullshit. They took absolutely no action besides gauging Puma's interest and agreed that he should go talk to his coach before they proceed any further. It took a long time for Puma to talk to his coach and from the information we're receiving now,(IF it holds to be true) shows that Puma likely didn't have much respect for his coach given the drama that was going down at the time and the fact that he rarely even shows up. The fatherly role facade was shown to be bullshit and the whole circumstances under which the deal seemed to be unethical are likely entirely fabricated.

If your whole argument is going to be "he should have gone to the coach first" without any context or justification as to why it holds any relevance in this specific case or in SC2 in general then I really don't care about your opinion. The context of how and why things went down the way they did is clearly important.


In the NBA, people get fined heavily just for saying they would like X player on their team. That's called tampering. A recent example of this was two years ago, when Chris Bosh was about to finish his last year with the Raptors, Lakers coach Phil Jackson made a public comment that "Chris would be a nice fit to the Lakers". Jackson was later fined 100,000 dollars. Regardless of what EG says, it was still them that approached Puma and offered him a deal while he was with another team. It is still considered highly unethical to do such a thing.
Condor Hero
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States2931 Posts
August 05 2011 03:51 GMT
#979
On August 05 2011 11:57 Ziggitz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2011 11:35 Zarahtra wrote:
On August 05 2011 11:24 DarkRise wrote:
On August 05 2011 11:12 Zarahtra wrote:
On August 05 2011 11:04 Ziggitz wrote:
On August 05 2011 10:27 windsupernova wrote:
I still dont get why people are bringing up EG right now. This has nothing to do with them


Because Coach Lee ran to the press and spread lies whilst playing the victim. Many people brushed it off as him not having all the facts and taking his word for it. This new information is very much relevant because it shines a light on his real character and paints those events in a different context.

It's not really relevant at all. All the same issues hold true in the EG case. This only shines light on why Puma might've wanted to leave, but EG were still poaching Puma.

There doesn't always need to be 1 good guy and 1 bad guy, Coach Lee being a jerk(I don't really feel he is for holding the wages, but because he lied about the sponsors) doesn't automatically make EG better.


Did you even read EG's comment about it?
I also think Lee also made a huge deal about Puma leaving and played the "victim". Exaggerated things on the press and made Puma/EG the villain. I'm sad for Puma for all the smashed talked he got from the community without even knowing the true side behind it.
Also how can you consider that a coach? Visiting the team house 2-3 times per MONTH?

Ofcourse I've read their comments about it. It's interesting how that's the first thing people question when people disagree with them.

Maybe Lee did play the victim, but now that the dust has settled, I still feel EG was in the wrong poaching Puma like they did. If Puma wanted to leave, he should start talks with a team, else EG should go through the coach/other team management.

On the definition of coach, I feel is also pretty irrelevant. It just says he's a pretty terrible coach, which I'm not arguing against.

Like I said, I feel this is quite irrelevant. Him being a jerk, doesn't automatically change how things went down in the EG situation.


What? EG didn't poach Puma, they spoke to him. Coach Lee was the one that claimed that they had signed him before speaking to him which they hadn't. Given the timing of this tribunal and the timing of the EG/TSL drama it was likely known what was going down in TSL by everyone from FriuitDealer and Trickster(tribunals don't exactly pop the day after a dispute is aired, these things take time). Given this, Puma who was offered a salaried contract from EG had to consider players who weren't getting paid and being lied to as well as a very sticky situation regarding the advertising displaying FD and T's images. Meanwhile Lee runs to the presses and outright lies about the situation and plays the victim portraying EG in a bad light.

This notion that EG merely speaking to Puma as being unprofessional is total bullshit. They took absolutely no action besides gauging Puma's interest and agreed that he should go talk to his coach before they proceed any further. It took a long time for Puma to talk to his coach and from the information we're receiving now,(IF it holds to be true) shows that Puma likely didn't have much respect for his coach given the drama that was going down at the time and the fact that he rarely even shows up. The fatherly role facade was shown to be bullshit and the whole circumstances under which the deal seemed to be unethical are likely entirely fabricated.

If your whole argument is going to be "he should have gone to the coach first" without any context or justification as to why it holds any relevance in this specific case or in SC2 in general then I really don't care about your opinion. The context of how and why things went down the way they did is clearly important.

EG just talking to Puma was unprofessional because he clearly was representing another team at a competition. His team paid for him to compete, not looking for other offers.
Ziggitz
Profile Joined September 2010
United States340 Posts
August 05 2011 03:59 GMT
#980
On August 05 2011 12:50 ItsMeDomLee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2011 11:57 Ziggitz wrote:
On August 05 2011 11:35 Zarahtra wrote:
On August 05 2011 11:24 DarkRise wrote:
On August 05 2011 11:12 Zarahtra wrote:
On August 05 2011 11:04 Ziggitz wrote:
On August 05 2011 10:27 windsupernova wrote:
I still dont get why people are bringing up EG right now. This has nothing to do with them


Because Coach Lee ran to the press and spread lies whilst playing the victim. Many people brushed it off as him not having all the facts and taking his word for it. This new information is very much relevant because it shines a light on his real character and paints those events in a different context.

It's not really relevant at all. All the same issues hold true in the EG case. This only shines light on why Puma might've wanted to leave, but EG were still poaching Puma.

There doesn't always need to be 1 good guy and 1 bad guy, Coach Lee being a jerk(I don't really feel he is for holding the wages, but because he lied about the sponsors) doesn't automatically make EG better.


Did you even read EG's comment about it?
I also think Lee also made a huge deal about Puma leaving and played the "victim". Exaggerated things on the press and made Puma/EG the villain. I'm sad for Puma for all the smashed talked he got from the community without even knowing the true side behind it.
Also how can you consider that a coach? Visiting the team house 2-3 times per MONTH?

Ofcourse I've read their comments about it. It's interesting how that's the first thing people question when people disagree with them.

Maybe Lee did play the victim, but now that the dust has settled, I still feel EG was in the wrong poaching Puma like they did. If Puma wanted to leave, he should start talks with a team, else EG should go through the coach/other team management.

On the definition of coach, I feel is also pretty irrelevant. It just says he's a pretty terrible coach, which I'm not arguing against.

Like I said, I feel this is quite irrelevant. Him being a jerk, doesn't automatically change how things went down in the EG situation.


What? EG didn't poach Puma, they spoke to him. Coach Lee was the one that claimed that they had signed him before speaking to him which they hadn't. Given the timing of this tribunal and the timing of the EG/TSL drama it was likely known what was going down in TSL by everyone from FriuitDealer and Trickster(tribunals don't exactly pop the day after a dispute is aired, these things take time). Given this, Puma who was offered a salaried contract from EG had to consider players who weren't getting paid and being lied to as well as a very sticky situation regarding the advertising displaying FD and T's images. Meanwhile Lee runs to the presses and outright lies about the situation and plays the victim portraying EG in a bad light.

This notion that EG merely speaking to Puma as being unprofessional is total bullshit. They took absolutely no action besides gauging Puma's interest and agreed that he should go talk to his coach before they proceed any further. It took a long time for Puma to talk to his coach and from the information we're receiving now,(IF it holds to be true) shows that Puma likely didn't have much respect for his coach given the drama that was going down at the time and the fact that he rarely even shows up. The fatherly role facade was shown to be bullshit and the whole circumstances under which the deal seemed to be unethical are likely entirely fabricated.

If your whole argument is going to be "he should have gone to the coach first" without any context or justification as to why it holds any relevance in this specific case or in SC2 in general then I really don't care about your opinion. The context of how and why things went down the way they did is clearly important.


In the NBA, people get fined heavily just for saying they would like X player on their team. That's called tampering. Regardless of what EG says, it was still them that approached Puma and offered him a deal while he was with another team. It is still considered highly unethical to do such a thing.


No, that's a player under contract in a heavily regulated league where he is getting paid millions of dollars a year because he signed a contract both with the league he is playing in and with his team that specifically makes such actions a breach of said contract. It is a condition required by the league in order to keep the league itself competitive and has nothing to do ethics whatsoever. It's a completely different context where there is no ambiguity or vagueness and to claim that it is applicable to an unsigned player in a very loosely regulated league is absurd. The players and teams aren't even part of any exclusive league, which is the only context in which the rule is enforced to keep the league itself competitive to prevent the richest teams from buying up all the talent within the league. The notion that in SC2 talking to a player is "highly unethical" is your own poorly constructed opinion.
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