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haha this is so ironic. Coach Lee the angel that got his little Puma ripped from underneath his nose by the evil organisation EG. Would you look at that! :D
Sucks for FD and Trickster though, this cant have been good at all for them. Having someone so highly regarded, untill now, talking that way about you, damn. And damn you Coach Lee for doing this to your employees, no shame.
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On August 05 2011 08:26 Gooey wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 08:01 masterbreti wrote:On August 05 2011 07:50 moonmeh wrote:On August 05 2011 07:48 masterbreti wrote:Also did anyone look at the interview more closely. here is a quote from it, the TSL response anyways. Due to their attitude actions which hurt their team mates such as not being interested in team rebuilding and ect, the coach and the players decided that there would be no need to give the final payment. That duration was for a month So from what I can tell, it was also the other players in TSL that gave Lee the goahead no to pay FD and tester. Might have been peer pressure, might have been exaggerated but in the end no matter what the players said, Coach Lee had a legal obligation. Also have a feeling he's just dragging the players in. There is no contract though. give you an example though of how non salaried players work. My father is a Contracter. He does work for people and they pay him when it is finished. simple enough. If he says he will do it and does not. Guess what! he won't be paid a dime or a penny. If one does not do the work asked of them, one does not get paid, regardless of the relationship between the man with the money and the person wanting the money. in the sc2 scene in Korea it can be likened to this. Lee asked FD and tester to practice more and play more since TSL's results were not so good, also if FD and tester practice more, they inspire the younger players and get them to play more since they would want to at least match the older players practice routine (MMA refrences this drive to out practice the older players in a interview with Gom a while back) Now if FD or tester did their practice and did their work like they were asked. They would have been paid. ....But they WERE contracted and salaried. That means you get paid unless you are fired. They were never fired. They weren't, in fact, contracted workers. If you work at a company for X amount of time, and for your last month of your job, you underperform, you are still guaranteed your salary pay by a legally binding contract that you and your employer must uphold. If you fail to uphold your part, you are liable to be fired, upon which FURTHER payment shall be suspended, but any work done during the time of employment MUST be paid in full.
they were not. Look at the Puma/EG situaition and see if they were contracted. They were paid for playing for TSL.
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It does seem quite ironic that he made such a big deal (playing the innocent victim of the evil Evil Geniuses) when he lost the uncontracted player, Puma. And now it's shown that he doesn't even pay players that are contracted. Since Puma didn't have a contract, it definitely makes sense why he would want to sign one for a team other than TSL And from what I understand, TSL never even offered Puma a contract so yeah, it just seems TSL is making one bad decision after another.
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its freaking me out that so many people say it serves them right for not training enough. That is so not the issue here, of course it his okay to punish a player monatery for for insuffiecent effort, but you dont go to them and say: Yes you will get paid, but not now because the sponsor didn't send the money, as if their is no issue with the player, while sitting on the money al along, together with some of the other statements it more seems like coach Lee is wasting money, not to mention he might just pocket some.
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Wow, so seems like Coach Lee pocketed some of the money as well as old equipment for use in his PC Bang and also lied about it... Seems like a very ugly situation.
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On August 05 2011 08:40 masterbreti wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 08:26 Gooey wrote:On August 05 2011 08:01 masterbreti wrote:On August 05 2011 07:50 moonmeh wrote:On August 05 2011 07:48 masterbreti wrote:Also did anyone look at the interview more closely. here is a quote from it, the TSL response anyways. Due to their attitude actions which hurt their team mates such as not being interested in team rebuilding and ect, the coach and the players decided that there would be no need to give the final payment. That duration was for a month So from what I can tell, it was also the other players in TSL that gave Lee the goahead no to pay FD and tester. Might have been peer pressure, might have been exaggerated but in the end no matter what the players said, Coach Lee had a legal obligation. Also have a feeling he's just dragging the players in. There is no contract though. give you an example though of how non salaried players work. My father is a Contracter. He does work for people and they pay him when it is finished. simple enough. If he says he will do it and does not. Guess what! he won't be paid a dime or a penny. If one does not do the work asked of them, one does not get paid, regardless of the relationship between the man with the money and the person wanting the money. in the sc2 scene in Korea it can be likened to this. Lee asked FD and tester to practice more and play more since TSL's results were not so good, also if FD and tester practice more, they inspire the younger players and get them to play more since they would want to at least match the older players practice routine (MMA refrences this drive to out practice the older players in a interview with Gom a while back) Now if FD or tester did their practice and did their work like they were asked. They would have been paid. ....But they WERE contracted and salaried. That means you get paid unless you are fired. They were never fired. They weren't, in fact, contracted workers. If you work at a company for X amount of time, and for your last month of your job, you underperform, you are still guaranteed your salary pay by a legally binding contract that you and your employer must uphold. If you fail to uphold your part, you are liable to be fired, upon which FURTHER payment shall be suspended, but any work done during the time of employment MUST be paid in full. they were not. Look at the Puma/EG situaition and see if they were contracted. They were paid for playing for TSL.
From what I understand Puma wasn't paid at all, whereas FD and Trickster were. There either had to be a contract or a verbal agreement for a certain salary between the parties in this instance, whereas that was not the case with Puma. The situations are completely different.
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Wait... is this a Kespa that works?
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EG should have been more aware of Korean customs and how the Korean scene does business when it bought Puma. It should have directly contacted TSL, promised to pay a high transfer fee, and then not pay it, citing failing business and not securing sponsors. That would be the right thing to do.
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On August 05 2011 08:40 masterbreti wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 08:26 Gooey wrote:On August 05 2011 08:01 masterbreti wrote:On August 05 2011 07:50 moonmeh wrote:On August 05 2011 07:48 masterbreti wrote:Also did anyone look at the interview more closely. here is a quote from it, the TSL response anyways. Due to their attitude actions which hurt their team mates such as not being interested in team rebuilding and ect, the coach and the players decided that there would be no need to give the final payment. That duration was for a month So from what I can tell, it was also the other players in TSL that gave Lee the goahead no to pay FD and tester. Might have been peer pressure, might have been exaggerated but in the end no matter what the players said, Coach Lee had a legal obligation. Also have a feeling he's just dragging the players in. There is no contract though. give you an example though of how non salaried players work. My father is a Contracter. He does work for people and they pay him when it is finished. simple enough. If he says he will do it and does not. Guess what! he won't be paid a dime or a penny. If one does not do the work asked of them, one does not get paid, regardless of the relationship between the man with the money and the person wanting the money. in the sc2 scene in Korea it can be likened to this. Lee asked FD and tester to practice more and play more since TSL's results were not so good, also if FD and tester practice more, they inspire the younger players and get them to play more since they would want to at least match the older players practice routine (MMA refrences this drive to out practice the older players in a interview with Gom a while back) Now if FD or tester did their practice and did their work like they were asked. They would have been paid. ....But they WERE contracted and salaried. That means you get paid unless you are fired. They were never fired. They weren't, in fact, contracted workers. If you work at a company for X amount of time, and for your last month of your job, you underperform, you are still guaranteed your salary pay by a legally binding contract that you and your employer must uphold. If you fail to uphold your part, you are liable to be fired, upon which FURTHER payment shall be suspended, but any work done during the time of employment MUST be paid in full. they were not. Look at the Puma/EG situaition and see if they were contracted. They were paid for playing for TSL.
Puma is not Fruit Dealer or Trickster. He was not a salaried player on TSL.
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On August 05 2011 08:58 kakaman wrote:
EG should have been more aware of Korean customs and how the Korean scene does business when it bought Puma. It should have directly contacted TSL, promised to pay a high transfer fee, and then not pay it, citing failing business and not securing sponsors. That would be the right thing to do.
I see what you did there! Hilarious! Cheers mate! 
As for the rest of this post, I think we have finally seen Coach Lee's true colours between this contract debacle and the turn-coat press situation with EG. He has provided significant evidence of his general lack of honesty between these two events and he is on the ropes.
For the sake of the Korean SC2 scene, I hope he pulls it all together, cleans up his act, and moves on as an honest, thoughtful, and intelligent businessman and coach. Good luck to TSL, they are still a good team and have continued to put out decent results over the last year!
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On August 05 2011 08:58 kakaman wrote:
EG should have been more aware of Korean customs and how the Korean scene does business when it bought Puma. It should have directly contacted TSL, promised to pay a high transfer fee, and then not pay it, citing failing business and not securing sponsors. That would be the right thing to do.
LOL. All the viscous debate in this thread and this game me a welcome relief.
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On August 05 2011 08:57 Antisocialmunky wrote:
Wait... is this a Kespa that works?
Not really. They have no real power essentially.
Note that they are still able to play in all GSL matches.
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On August 05 2011 09:02 Gooey wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 08:40 masterbreti wrote:On August 05 2011 08:26 Gooey wrote:On August 05 2011 08:01 masterbreti wrote:On August 05 2011 07:50 moonmeh wrote:On August 05 2011 07:48 masterbreti wrote:Also did anyone look at the interview more closely. here is a quote from it, the TSL response anyways. Due to their attitude actions which hurt their team mates such as not being interested in team rebuilding and ect, the coach and the players decided that there would be no need to give the final payment. That duration was for a month So from what I can tell, it was also the other players in TSL that gave Lee the goahead no to pay FD and tester. Might have been peer pressure, might have been exaggerated but in the end no matter what the players said, Coach Lee had a legal obligation. Also have a feeling he's just dragging the players in. There is no contract though. give you an example though of how non salaried players work. My father is a Contracter. He does work for people and they pay him when it is finished. simple enough. If he says he will do it and does not. Guess what! he won't be paid a dime or a penny. If one does not do the work asked of them, one does not get paid, regardless of the relationship between the man with the money and the person wanting the money. in the sc2 scene in Korea it can be likened to this. Lee asked FD and tester to practice more and play more since TSL's results were not so good, also if FD and tester practice more, they inspire the younger players and get them to play more since they would want to at least match the older players practice routine (MMA refrences this drive to out practice the older players in a interview with Gom a while back) Now if FD or tester did their practice and did their work like they were asked. They would have been paid. ....But they WERE contracted and salaried. That means you get paid unless you are fired. They were never fired. They weren't, in fact, contracted workers. If you work at a company for X amount of time, and for your last month of your job, you underperform, you are still guaranteed your salary pay by a legally binding contract that you and your employer must uphold. If you fail to uphold your part, you are liable to be fired, upon which FURTHER payment shall be suspended, but any work done during the time of employment MUST be paid in full. they were not. Look at the Puma/EG situaition and see if they were contracted. They were paid for playing for TSL. Puma is not Fruit Dealer or Trickster. He was not a salaried player on TSL.
Not only was Puma not salaried, but he was also not contracted, nor should he apparently have had any hope of becoming salaried in light of the situation he saw. So someone please tell me now why we should hate Puma for what he did, when it was Coach Lee that backstabbed him in the media?
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On August 05 2011 09:05 hyptonic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 08:57 Antisocialmunky wrote:
Wait... is this a Kespa that works? Not really. They have no real power essentially. Note that they are still able to play in all GSL matches.
Luckily, an organization can't get immediate power and do what it wants immediately. They have done enough to destroy Lee's and TSL's reputation to the point that I doubt new players will join.
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On August 05 2011 09:05 Carbonthief wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 09:02 Gooey wrote:On August 05 2011 08:40 masterbreti wrote:On August 05 2011 08:26 Gooey wrote:On August 05 2011 08:01 masterbreti wrote:On August 05 2011 07:50 moonmeh wrote:On August 05 2011 07:48 masterbreti wrote:Also did anyone look at the interview more closely. here is a quote from it, the TSL response anyways. Due to their attitude actions which hurt their team mates such as not being interested in team rebuilding and ect, the coach and the players decided that there would be no need to give the final payment. That duration was for a month So from what I can tell, it was also the other players in TSL that gave Lee the goahead no to pay FD and tester. Might have been peer pressure, might have been exaggerated but in the end no matter what the players said, Coach Lee had a legal obligation. Also have a feeling he's just dragging the players in. There is no contract though. give you an example though of how non salaried players work. My father is a Contracter. He does work for people and they pay him when it is finished. simple enough. If he says he will do it and does not. Guess what! he won't be paid a dime or a penny. If one does not do the work asked of them, one does not get paid, regardless of the relationship between the man with the money and the person wanting the money. in the sc2 scene in Korea it can be likened to this. Lee asked FD and tester to practice more and play more since TSL's results were not so good, also if FD and tester practice more, they inspire the younger players and get them to play more since they would want to at least match the older players practice routine (MMA refrences this drive to out practice the older players in a interview with Gom a while back) Now if FD or tester did their practice and did their work like they were asked. They would have been paid. ....But they WERE contracted and salaried. That means you get paid unless you are fired. They were never fired. They weren't, in fact, contracted workers. If you work at a company for X amount of time, and for your last month of your job, you underperform, you are still guaranteed your salary pay by a legally binding contract that you and your employer must uphold. If you fail to uphold your part, you are liable to be fired, upon which FURTHER payment shall be suspended, but any work done during the time of employment MUST be paid in full. they were not. Look at the Puma/EG situaition and see if they were contracted. They were paid for playing for TSL. Puma is not Fruit Dealer or Trickster. He was not a salaried player on TSL. Not only was Puma not salaried, but he was also not contracted, nor should he apparently have had any hope of becoming salaried in light of the situation he saw. So someone please tell me now why we should hate Puma for what he did, when it was Coach Lee that backstabbed him in the media?
nobody hates puma you moron, it was unprofessional of EG to contact the player first when he clearly was affiliated with a team (TSL paid for his flight and he was clearing representing them at an event with TSL_Puma)
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Wow. My sympathies to the TSL players. Didn't know they had so much to deal with.
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On August 05 2011 08:55 teamsolid wrote:
Wow, so seems like Coach Lee pocketed some of the money as well as old equipment for use in his PC Bang and also lied about it... Seems like a very ugly situation.
Is it stated anywhere that he actually pocketed it for himself? It states that the money was withheld..yet he continued to tell the team that there was no money coming in from the sponsors - leading to Clide and SangHo's generosity in sacrificing their own wages to keep the team going..
Where did the withheld money go?
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On August 05 2011 09:15 Condor Hero wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 09:05 Carbonthief wrote:On August 05 2011 09:02 Gooey wrote:On August 05 2011 08:40 masterbreti wrote:On August 05 2011 08:26 Gooey wrote:On August 05 2011 08:01 masterbreti wrote:On August 05 2011 07:50 moonmeh wrote:On August 05 2011 07:48 masterbreti wrote:Also did anyone look at the interview more closely. here is a quote from it, the TSL response anyways. Due to their attitude actions which hurt their team mates such as not being interested in team rebuilding and ect, the coach and the players decided that there would be no need to give the final payment. That duration was for a month So from what I can tell, it was also the other players in TSL that gave Lee the goahead no to pay FD and tester. Might have been peer pressure, might have been exaggerated but in the end no matter what the players said, Coach Lee had a legal obligation. Also have a feeling he's just dragging the players in. There is no contract though. give you an example though of how non salaried players work. My father is a Contracter. He does work for people and they pay him when it is finished. simple enough. If he says he will do it and does not. Guess what! he won't be paid a dime or a penny. If one does not do the work asked of them, one does not get paid, regardless of the relationship between the man with the money and the person wanting the money. in the sc2 scene in Korea it can be likened to this. Lee asked FD and tester to practice more and play more since TSL's results were not so good, also if FD and tester practice more, they inspire the younger players and get them to play more since they would want to at least match the older players practice routine (MMA refrences this drive to out practice the older players in a interview with Gom a while back) Now if FD or tester did their practice and did their work like they were asked. They would have been paid. ....But they WERE contracted and salaried. That means you get paid unless you are fired. They were never fired. They weren't, in fact, contracted workers. If you work at a company for X amount of time, and for your last month of your job, you underperform, you are still guaranteed your salary pay by a legally binding contract that you and your employer must uphold. If you fail to uphold your part, you are liable to be fired, upon which FURTHER payment shall be suspended, but any work done during the time of employment MUST be paid in full. they were not. Look at the Puma/EG situaition and see if they were contracted. They were paid for playing for TSL. Puma is not Fruit Dealer or Trickster. He was not a salaried player on TSL. Not only was Puma not salaried, but he was also not contracted, nor should he apparently have had any hope of becoming salaried in light of the situation he saw. So someone please tell me now why we should hate Puma for what he did, when it was Coach Lee that backstabbed him in the media? nobody hates puma you moron, it was unprofessional of EG to contact the player first when he clearly was affiliated with a team (TSL paid for his flight and he was clearing representing them at an event with TSL_Puma)
Uh, don't post if you are ignorant to that situation.
Koreans were blaming PUMA more than Lee/EG. He was depressed as fuck on twitter for a few weeks and the KR forums were slamming him for being "unloyal"
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It's strongly implied by the official release that money went missing, or at least, not immediately obvious where money was been spent. There are many way where in a small business (which what a pro-team really is) that can happen, not all are malicious.
We as outsiders will never really know what actually happened, so I again pled that we withhold judgement. It's not a contradiction if Mr Lee is both a good E-sports man but also a clueless business one. We'll never know.
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On August 05 2011 09:15 Condor Hero wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 09:05 Carbonthief wrote:On August 05 2011 09:02 Gooey wrote:On August 05 2011 08:40 masterbreti wrote:On August 05 2011 08:26 Gooey wrote:On August 05 2011 08:01 masterbreti wrote:On August 05 2011 07:50 moonmeh wrote:On August 05 2011 07:48 masterbreti wrote:Also did anyone look at the interview more closely. here is a quote from it, the TSL response anyways. Due to their attitude actions which hurt their team mates such as not being interested in team rebuilding and ect, the coach and the players decided that there would be no need to give the final payment. That duration was for a month So from what I can tell, it was also the other players in TSL that gave Lee the goahead no to pay FD and tester. Might have been peer pressure, might have been exaggerated but in the end no matter what the players said, Coach Lee had a legal obligation. Also have a feeling he's just dragging the players in. There is no contract though. give you an example though of how non salaried players work. My father is a Contracter. He does work for people and they pay him when it is finished. simple enough. If he says he will do it and does not. Guess what! he won't be paid a dime or a penny. If one does not do the work asked of them, one does not get paid, regardless of the relationship between the man with the money and the person wanting the money. in the sc2 scene in Korea it can be likened to this. Lee asked FD and tester to practice more and play more since TSL's results were not so good, also if FD and tester practice more, they inspire the younger players and get them to play more since they would want to at least match the older players practice routine (MMA refrences this drive to out practice the older players in a interview with Gom a while back) Now if FD or tester did their practice and did their work like they were asked. They would have been paid. ....But they WERE contracted and salaried. That means you get paid unless you are fired. They were never fired. They weren't, in fact, contracted workers. If you work at a company for X amount of time, and for your last month of your job, you underperform, you are still guaranteed your salary pay by a legally binding contract that you and your employer must uphold. If you fail to uphold your part, you are liable to be fired, upon which FURTHER payment shall be suspended, but any work done during the time of employment MUST be paid in full. they were not. Look at the Puma/EG situaition and see if they were contracted. They were paid for playing for TSL. Puma is not Fruit Dealer or Trickster. He was not a salaried player on TSL. Not only was Puma not salaried, but he was also not contracted, nor should he apparently have had any hope of becoming salaried in light of the situation he saw. So someone please tell me now why we should hate Puma for what he did, when it was Coach Lee that backstabbed him in the media? nobody hates puma you moron, it was unprofessional of EG to contact the player first when he clearly was affiliated with a team (TSL paid for his flight and he was clearing representing them at an event with TSL_Puma)
NASL flew the players from the top 16 out, not the ind. teams.
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EPT
