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On August 05 2011 05:04 spybreak wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 05:01 wolfe wrote:On August 05 2011 04:59 Rekrul wrote:
Even after he originally stole FD and Tester and everyone kinda just let it go and didn't make a big deal about it for the greater good of the growth of SC2 in Korea, Coach Lee was notorious for doing things like going ape shit bitching about very minuscule things such as how many players/which players can get to sit in the team area during matches, which left other coaches and GomTV staff wondering "what the fuck is wrong with this guy?" Where did you hear that and seriously? 99% of the people here have a favorable impression of him (initially) because of Tastosis, but I'd love to hear other opinions. I think that's the issue here is that those who follow sc2 scene know about Mr. Lee being a "good coach" was because of Tastosis. But you really can't blame them, they can't say "yeah he is so so coach" of course they will praise someone they know.
this guy is mr lee
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On August 05 2011 06:42 Pyskee wrote:If TSL was one of the first SC2 teams to have major sponsors, this doesn't really provide incentives for other companies to help sponsor other SC2 teams 
exactly the reason why it should be investigated by the da and brought before a court if necessary.
sponsors should be able to trust the coaches that the money will get to the players
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On August 05 2011 06:42 Pyskee wrote:If TSL was one of the first SC2 teams to have major sponsors, this doesn't really provide incentives for other companies to help sponsor other SC2 teams
That was my first thought after reading all of it. Giving daddy that good first impression is important =(
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I think it's kind of pathetic that FD and tester went and cried to sc2con after being a burden to their team with their constant under-performance and lack of practice. Have some dignity, you were lucky enough to be picked up by another team. Don't demand payments from a team that is shattered and financially struggling.
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On August 05 2011 06:53 zeru wrote:
Didn't see it posted, but clide posted on his twitter half an hour ago:
잠이오지않는다.. 큰일이다..
google translate:
<some word>. This is big/huge.
Cannot sleep, big problem
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On August 05 2011 06:53 MythArc wrote:
I think it's kind of pathetic that FD and tester went and cried to sc2con after being a burden to their team with their constant under-performance and lack of practice. Have some dignity, you were lucky enough to be picked up by another team. Don't demand payments from a team that is shattered and financially struggling.
How about demanding payments from a team that was lying about the reason for withholding the money they owe their players?
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It doesn't seem SC2con has any power. They ordered TSL to pay backwages to FD and Trickster. TSL said no and withdrew from SC2con. SC2con has no recourse or ability to enforce anything further.
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On August 05 2011 06:53 MythArc wrote:
I think it's kind of pathetic that FD and tester went and cried to sc2con after being a burden to their team with their constant under-performance and lack of practice. Have some dignity, you were lucky enough to be picked up by another team. Don't demand payments from a team that is shattered and financially struggling.
they were code s players
underperformance what ?
also if its true what they are saying TSL did receive money. or rather. Mr. Lee received the money but did not give it to the TSL Players.
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Clide and Killer, poor guys. They're getting the worst of this shitty situation.
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On August 05 2011 06:56 Devolved wrote:
It doesn't seem SC2con has any power. They ordered TSL to pay backwages to FD and Trickster. TSL said no and withdrew from SC2con. SC2con has no recourse or ability to enforce anything further.
yeah it would be a joke if they could. this kind of thing is the job of a court or an arbitral tribunal
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On August 05 2011 06:53 MythArc wrote:
I think it's kind of pathetic that FD and tester went and cried to sc2con after being a burden to their team with their constant under-performance and lack of practice. Have some dignity, you were lucky enough to be picked up by another team. Don't demand payments from a team that is shattered and financially struggling.
I think its pathetic that a manager doesn't pay his players like he is supposed to. I think its pathetic that a manager runs a team without written contracts. I think its pathetic that a manager is so fucking terrible and wasteful with his teams finances. I think its terrible that a manager lies about not getting paid by the sponsor and then doesn't pay his players and asks for some to give back money.
There is a lot of pathetic things about this situation, but its not FD and Tester.
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On August 05 2011 06:53 MythArc wrote:
I think it's kind of pathetic that FD and tester went and cried to sc2con after being a burden to their team with their constant under-performance and lack of practice. Have some dignity, you were lucky enough to be picked up by another team. Don't demand payments from a team that is shattered and financially struggling.
Think about it, if you worked at a company that was gonna go bankrupt for not being competitive, would you demand your month-and-a-half salary or just let them have it because they were "shattered and financially struggling"? At the end of the day, they're progamers and the point is to get paid.
On August 05 2011 06:56 ch33psh33p wrote:
Clide and Killer, poor guys. They're getting the worst of this shitty situation.
Yeah, always sucks being the ones left on the sinking ship.
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On August 05 2011 06:53 MythArc wrote:
I think it's kind of pathetic that FD and tester went and cried to sc2con after being a burden to their team with their constant under-performance and lack of practice. Have some dignity, you were lucky enough to be picked up by another team. Don't demand payments from a team that is shattered and financially struggling.
What was your opinion of Coach Lee going straight to the presses after learning that PuMa wanted to leave the team? Also pathetic?
And yeah, fuck those guys for wanting to get paid wages they are legally owed. Pricks only think of themselves. Also according to the report TSL isn't struggling as much as Lee made it out to be, because Lee was saying his sponsors weren't paying when they actually were.
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On August 05 2011 06:56 Devolved wrote:
It doesn't seem SC2con has any power. They ordered TSL to pay backwages to FD and Trickster. TSL said no and withdrew from SC2con. SC2con has no recourse or ability to enforce anything further.
Well, they could probably pressure GOM into banning them from GSL, but they said they didn't want to cripple SC2 competition(remember, SC2 is somewhat niche over there) its more that they chose not to.
And really, if what they said Coach lee did is true, I am sure the sponsors wont be too happy and will probably pursue in a more legal way. This is just a wait and see thing.
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On August 05 2011 06:57 farnham wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 06:56 Devolved wrote:
It doesn't seem SC2con has any power. They ordered TSL to pay backwages to FD and Trickster. TSL said no and withdrew from SC2con. SC2con has no recourse or ability to enforce anything further. yeah it would be a joke if they could. this kind of thing is the job of a court or an arbitral tribunal
Well if this was BW and SC2con was Kespa, TSL would certainly have further actions taken against them. If they withdrew from Kespa none of their players would be able to participate in any leagues.
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I really don't believe Lee would do this unless there is something else we do not know. Lee has been a nice guy whenever I've had contact with him.
I have a feeling it was more about using the expenses for players other than just food or snack money. I would assume Lee had to shell out almost 3k for aLive and Puma to go to NASL. Also he could have needed to buy new equiptment and such for the players or even new beds or new appliances.
I am suspicious maybe it was more about him wanting to be frugal and not wanting to give him the money cause tbh FD and tester got a lot and didn't do much.
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Karma! This showing us the true face of TSL and their problem with PuMa and EG. This also shows us why PuMa decided to leave TSL, nothing lost for him what so ever.
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So TSL's coach is rich running an internet cafe while players like Clide sacrifice there own earnings to feed the team.
No wonder people leaving TSL.
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On August 05 2011 06:21 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 06:08 baoluvboa wrote:On August 05 2011 06:06 babylon wrote:On August 05 2011 05:55 MrCon wrote:
Withholding salaries is bad and it was a mistake 100% of the time. BUT that was my point, FD and Tester could have been such a burden that things just degenerated into such things. Not saying it was justified, saying I can understand. It's like you hire 2 employees in a 10 employees office, and those 2 are using their day playing beach ball at the office and disturbing the work of the others. In such a case I can understand an upset manager just say "guys, no paycheck for you". I'm not even sure it would be illegal haha (but the legal question seems to have trashed this thread so do not nitpick this part please xD) Actually, the proper, professional response would be to fire the two workers playing beach ball at the office. The issue is that Coach Lee decided to withhold their salaries as a punishment, which is unjustifiable any way you look at it. Basically, he wanted FD and Trickster on the team so he could continue using them for marketing, but he didn't want to pay them even though they're salaried. You can't have it both ways. You either keep them on the team and pay them, or you fire them and pay them what you're supposed to pay them for the time they've been on the team. Another way to look at it is that Asian culture tends to be more familiar and less business in conduct. By withholding wages, the coach is not cutting ties with his players completely but rather presenting a harsh incentive for them to work harder. Firing is strict and is not the style of the Asian culture nor Sc2 since it is only a niche organization. What I'm saying is that the coach's withholding of wages could be look at another perspective in that he only wants to make FD and Tester improve but not firing them from the team and the "family" completely. Actually, I'm Asian (albeit not Korean), and I can tell you right now that you're quite wrong. i would say that a majority of us are actually quite shrewd with money matters, and if we don't feel we're getting what we're paying you for, you'll be out the door very, very fast. EDIT: I don't mean to generalize here, but seriously, implying that all Asians are that naive in business matters is kind of ignorant.
Wtf don't speak for us don't even say majority.
I don't care if it's your opinion, it's a false opinion about OTHER people. Asians are less business in conduct? Firing is strict and not our conduct? Do you have any idea what you are talking about?
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EPT
