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On July 22 2011 07:32 AYSJr wrote:
To the people still saying bullshit about business and alike, please, read like you really want to UNDERSTAND what the TSL coach is saying. He never said that Puma couldn't leave TSL, he only said that they picked him, fed him, TRAINED him and actually paid him while he was still a noboby. And well, I know that I would expect a little of gratitude from him. But, he isn't angry about that as well.
What really upsets him is that EG acted like they don't have any kind of respect (or even ethics) and simply ignored the existence of TSL to negotiate directly with the player. And well, maybe to americans this doesn't means nothing but asian people usually likes to be given respect. And to be honest, it wouldn't hurt EG in any sense to at least enter in contact with TSL and say that they would contact Puma. But, it's okay right? Business is business, who needs ethics? Just hope you guys don't complain when you are fooled around by some company. Because that would be ironic.
agreed
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On July 22 2011 07:35 Dr.Sin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 07:32 AYSJr wrote:
he only said that they picked him, fed him, TRAINED him and actually paid him while he was still a noboby. Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 Dr. Sin wrote:
When you have a large team, it doesn't cost that much money to house and feed someone and give them a spot to use a computer. To use this argument is childish because you can't possibly seriously expect someone to build a life for themselves under these conditions. It is exploitative. I did read. See above.
Okay, NOW I'm impressed. So to feed someone, give him a good computer to play and even pay him a salary doesn't cost anything? Right, that's probably the reason why there is a lot of teams and clans everywhere.
BTW, go and ask your parents how much you costed to them over a year. Ignore schools things and likes, just ask them about food and livings. And exploitative? Heh, talk about childish.
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What's going to happen to his practice partners and environment?
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On July 22 2011 07:32 resilve wrote:
My complaint about the affair is not one on the ethics of business dealings, but rather that I dont think Foreign teams should be buying Korean players - it seems like cheating.
In the same way that people support football teams or sportsmen that arent winning championships week-in-week-out, so I like to support local/regional teams and players. Im a massive supporter of european teams and players precisely because they are european. If Dignitas picked up MMA tommorow I wouldn't be that impressed compared to if they picked up Demuslim.
I think as a foreign scene NA and EU need to be recruiting, training and evolving our own scenes to take on the koreans, not just skipping the hard work and poaching them.
Sure I can see that EG gets its name spread about the last 8 of more tournaments, more sponsorship, more exposure - but I think the excitement (and therefore exposure/sponsorship) of Idra getting there in an MLG is significantly more than 'generic-gosu-korean' doing it at every event.
What you are saying is more or less racist. What seperates MMA from Demuslim? Just locale of birth and housing. So because of those two things you would rather cheer for another person, even though he isn't competing on as high of level, and has only in his career competed at a high level, for a short period of time?
Personally I cannot wait for extremely mediocre players being able to demand ridiculously high wages until it becomes unprofitable for teams to support them, and we have another catostrophe like the SK vs MyM days of wc3. I welcome Korean players taking foreign organizations money, I mean someone has to take it, it might as well be the people who are worth their money opposed to the people who are extremely lackluster. The American scene is personalities, the European scene is weekly cups, and the Korean Scene is extremely rigorous training, which one deserves the most return on their investment?
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On July 22 2011 07:32 AYSJr wrote:
To the people still saying bullshit about business and alike, please, read like you really want to UNDERSTAND what the TSL coach is saying. He never said that Puma couldn't leave TSL, he only said that they picked him, fed him, TRAINED him and actually paid him while he was still a noboby. And well, I know that I would expect a little of gratitude from him. But, he isn't angry about that as well.
What really upsets him is that EG acted like they don't have any kind of respect (or even ethics) and simply ignored the existence of TSL to negotiate directly with the player. And well, maybe to americans this doesn't means nothing but asian people usually likes to be given respect. And to be honest, it wouldn't hurt EG in any sense to at least enter in contact with TSL and say that they would contact Puma. But, it's okay right? Business is business, who needs ethics? Just hope you guys don't complain when you are fooled around by some company. Because that would be ironic.
LOL @ calling Puma a nobody, someone most experst call the most skilled current BW player yet to transition to SC2. Excluding old legends that haven't put up results in a long time etc etc.
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On July 22 2011 07:32 AYSJr wrote:
To the people still saying bullshit about business and alike, please, read like you really want to UNDERSTAND what the TSL coach is saying. He never said that Puma couldn't leave TSL, he only said that they picked him, fed him, TRAINED him and actually paid him while he was still a noboby. And well, I know that I would expect a little of gratitude from him. But, he isn't angry about that as well.
What really upsets him is that EG acted like they don't have any kind of respect (or even ethics) and simply ignored the existence of TSL to negotiate directly with the player. And well, maybe to americans this doesn't means nothing but asian people usually likes to be given respect. And to be honest, it wouldn't hurt EG in any sense to at least enter in contact with TSL and say that they would contact Puma. But, it's okay right? Business is business, who needs ethics? Just hope you guys don't complain when you are fooled around by some company. Because that would be ironic.
Couldn't have said it better.
Kiddos on the internet don't understand this. They will understand it soon enough when they have to ex. buy a house and have to loan money from the bank, pay advocates to sign some papers and then hire professionals to do some work renovating. Ethics. Nowhere.
Some people have them. EG? hahaha.
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The story wasn't blown up when fruitdealer left for ST nor was it when rain left for Fnatic. This wasn't an isolated case because many players have been leaving TSL which leads me to believe that some players in the TSL house are unhappy with management.
This story is getting blown up because he just recently won a foreign tournament and got picked up by a foreign team. I would like to know the details a little bit more, sure everyone does, but TSL just playing a victim card doesn't sit well with me.
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IdrA and Puma practice partners?
Brain exploding, cannot divide by 0
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People who are saying that there is some kinda honor system that needs to be looked must be really naive about how the world works. Any business in the world that relies solely on an honor system would fail pretty quickly so there is a reason that no legitimate worldwide business does. IF your job is going to sent you to school to get a degree, they are going to make you sign a contract to stay with them for a specific number of year after you are done to get a return on investment because they are not naive enough to think you are going to stay if there are better offers out there for your skills.
For all intensive purposes puma was a uncontracted free agent, in any international sport because people love to draw parallels puma would be a free agent.
I love how everyone on team liquid is holier then mother Teresa and more selfless then Gandhi but here in the real world when you are offed a much better position with better pay and more benefits you take it. You work at a job making 20K and another job offers you 50K with better benifents you take it.
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On July 22 2011 07:45 bibbaly wrote:
The story wasn't blown up when fruitdealer left for ST nor was it when rain left for Fnatic. This wasn't an isolated case because many players have been leaving TSL which leads me to believe that some players in the TSL house are unhappy with management.
This story is getting blown up because he just recently won a foreign tournament and got picked up by a foreign team. I would like to know the details a little bit more, sure everyone does, but TSL just playing a victim card doesn't sit well with me.
I'm pretty sure it's blown up because EG went behind management's back, not because Puma left for a foreign team.
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On July 22 2011 07:41 AYSJr wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 07:35 Dr.Sin wrote:On July 22 2011 07:32 AYSJr wrote:
he only said that they picked him, fed him, TRAINED him and actually paid him while he was still a noboby. On July 22 2011 Dr. Sin wrote:
When you have a large team, it doesn't cost that much money to house and feed someone and give them a spot to use a computer. To use this argument is childish because you can't possibly seriously expect someone to build a life for themselves under these conditions. It is exploitative. I did read. See above. Okay, NOW I'm impressed. So to feed someone, give him a good computer to play and even pay him a salary doesn't cost anything? Right, that's probably the reason why there is a lot of teams and clans everywhere. BTW, go and ask your parents how much you costed to them over a year. Ignore schools things and likes, just ask them about food and livings. And exploitative? Heh, talk about childish.
Yeah, and its not like he's even represented his team at all in the team league or at nasl. You can't act like Puma has been some kind of parasite who just lives off of TSL and then blows them off.
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United States23455 Posts
On July 22 2011 07:45 bibbaly wrote:
The story wasn't blown up when fruitdealer left for ST nor was it when rain left for Fnatic. This wasn't an isolated case because many players have been leaving TSL which leads me to believe that some players in the TSL house are unhappy with management.
This story is getting blown up because he just recently won a foreign tournament and got picked up by a foreign team. I would like to know the details a little bit more, sure everyone does, but TSL just playing a victim card doesn't sit well with me.
FruitDealer tweeted "Big headed Puma". That is a guy who left TSL. So in at least FD's eyes, the way Trickster/FD left TSL is totally different than what Puma did.
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5003 Posts
On July 22 2011 07:42 Jiddra wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 07:32 AYSJr wrote:
To the people still saying bullshit about business and alike, please, read like you really want to UNDERSTAND what the TSL coach is saying. He never said that Puma couldn't leave TSL, he only said that they picked him, fed him, TRAINED him and actually paid him while he was still a noboby. And well, I know that I would expect a little of gratitude from him. But, he isn't angry about that as well.
What really upsets him is that EG acted like they don't have any kind of respect (or even ethics) and simply ignored the existence of TSL to negotiate directly with the player. And well, maybe to americans this doesn't means nothing but asian people usually likes to be given respect. And to be honest, it wouldn't hurt EG in any sense to at least enter in contact with TSL and say that they would contact Puma. But, it's okay right? Business is business, who needs ethics? Just hope you guys don't complain when you are fooled around by some company. Because that would be ironic. LOL @ calling Puma a nobody, someone most experst call the most skilled current BW player yet to transition to SC2. Excluding old legends that haven't put up results in a long time etc etc.
Sorry but most people you consider experts dont' know anything about the brood war scene :X
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/players/96_PuMa/games#tblt-218-1-1-DESC
Puma was bad. He all killed a team that gets a quarter of his practice time once, that was about it. He only ever got chances to play cause he was in Estro, which was a pretty bad team.
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On July 22 2011 07:45 bibbaly wrote:
The story wasn't blown up when fruitdealer left for ST nor was it when rain left for Fnatic. This wasn't an isolated case because many players have been leaving TSL which leads me to believe that some players in the TSL house are unhappy with management.
This story is getting blown up because he just recently won a foreign tournament and got picked up by a foreign team. I would like to know the details a little bit more, sure everyone does, but TSL just playing a victim card doesn't sit well with me.
Umm...what..??? NO. the reason its getting blown up is cuz of the way EG contracted puma
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Puma is gonna lose his skill and get really rusty if he stops practicing against other top korean players. Even MC said he felt he was falling behind just being in NA for a few months.
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On July 22 2011 07:44 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 07:32 AYSJr wrote:
To the people still saying bullshit about business and alike, please, read like you really want to UNDERSTAND what the TSL coach is saying. He never said that Puma couldn't leave TSL, he only said that they picked him, fed him, TRAINED him and actually paid him while he was still a noboby. And well, I know that I would expect a little of gratitude from him. But, he isn't angry about that as well.
What really upsets him is that EG acted like they don't have any kind of respect (or even ethics) and simply ignored the existence of TSL to negotiate directly with the player. And well, maybe to americans this doesn't means nothing but asian people usually likes to be given respect. And to be honest, it wouldn't hurt EG in any sense to at least enter in contact with TSL and say that they would contact Puma. But, it's okay right? Business is business, who needs ethics? Just hope you guys don't complain when you are fooled around by some company. Because that would be ironic. Couldn't have said it better. Kiddos on the internet don't understand this. They will understand it soon enough when they have to ex. buy a house and have to loan money from the bank, pay advocates to sign some papers and then hire professionals to do some work renovating. Ethics. Nowhere. Some people have them. EG? hahaha.
Condescension does no one any good, and if anything, this would help the "kiddos" understand how to take of their business. In some sense, TSL are the "kiddos" of your story, seemingly unaware of how to ensure that their investments are taken care of.
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On July 22 2011 07:46 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 07:45 bibbaly wrote:
The story wasn't blown up when fruitdealer left for ST nor was it when rain left for Fnatic. This wasn't an isolated case because many players have been leaving TSL which leads me to believe that some players in the TSL house are unhappy with management.
This story is getting blown up because he just recently won a foreign tournament and got picked up by a foreign team. I would like to know the details a little bit more, sure everyone does, but TSL just playing a victim card doesn't sit well with me. I'm pretty sure it's blown up because EG went behind management's back, not because Puma left for a foreign team.
How come most people didn't even notice other players leave TSL? In their case noone would even care to pay attention to details. Most of the attention is because of Puma recent results and because it's foreign team.
I'm not talking about why people give positive or negative feedback, just why is it so blown up.
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On July 22 2011 07:48 snakeeyez wrote:
Puma is gonna lose his skill and get really rusty if he stops practicing against other top korean players. Even MC said he felt he was falling behind just being in NA for a few months.
No he said that because he wasn't practicing but always traveling. Way different then "staying" in NA for a few months which he didn't do either.
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On July 22 2011 07:48 Milkis wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 07:42 Jiddra wrote:On July 22 2011 07:32 AYSJr wrote:
To the people still saying bullshit about business and alike, please, read like you really want to UNDERSTAND what the TSL coach is saying. He never said that Puma couldn't leave TSL, he only said that they picked him, fed him, TRAINED him and actually paid him while he was still a noboby. And well, I know that I would expect a little of gratitude from him. But, he isn't angry about that as well.
What really upsets him is that EG acted like they don't have any kind of respect (or even ethics) and simply ignored the existence of TSL to negotiate directly with the player. And well, maybe to americans this doesn't means nothing but asian people usually likes to be given respect. And to be honest, it wouldn't hurt EG in any sense to at least enter in contact with TSL and say that they would contact Puma. But, it's okay right? Business is business, who needs ethics? Just hope you guys don't complain when you are fooled around by some company. Because that would be ironic. LOL @ calling Puma a nobody, someone most experst call the most skilled current BW player yet to transition to SC2. Excluding old legends that haven't put up results in a long time etc etc. Sorry but most people you consider experts dont' know anything about the brood war scene :X http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/players/96_PuMa/games#tblt-218-1-1-DESCPuma was bad. He all killed a team that gets a quarter of his practice time once, that was about it. He only ever got chances to play cause he was in Estro, which was a pretty bad team.
Skill dosen't mean results.
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On July 22 2011 07:49 Dariusz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 07:46 babylon wrote:On July 22 2011 07:45 bibbaly wrote:
The story wasn't blown up when fruitdealer left for ST nor was it when rain left for Fnatic. This wasn't an isolated case because many players have been leaving TSL which leads me to believe that some players in the TSL house are unhappy with management.
This story is getting blown up because he just recently won a foreign tournament and got picked up by a foreign team. I would like to know the details a little bit more, sure everyone does, but TSL just playing a victim card doesn't sit well with me. I'm pretty sure it's blown up because EG went behind management's back, not because Puma left for a foreign team. How come most people didn't even notice other players leave TSL? In their case noone would even care to pay attention to details. Most of the attention is because of Puma recent results and because it's foreign team. I'm not talking about why people give positive or negative feedback, just why is it so blown up.
Exactly.
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EPT
