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On July 22 2011 07:59 Dr.Sin wrote:
AYSJr: I moved out of my parents over 6 years ago. I have a full set of scholarships that include salary, cost of living, equipment, travel funds and tuition and with which I bought a condo in a major city for doing biomedical research at a prestigious university, where I created and patented an experimental cancer treatment. How about you?
When you have an entire team of people living under your roof, the costs decrease dramatically, especially if you're stuffing several of them in a room at a time. Its why people become roommates, because they wouldn't afford moving out otherwise. I would be extremely surprised that it would cost TSL more than $5000/year to host Puma in the team house. Re the salary: none of us know what he was being paid, if anything. Only he would be able to tell us if he makes $7.25 for every hour (we'll use the Federal minimum wage for argument's sake) he trains and helps his team. I think it is extremely reasonable that it amounts to much less. Korean players are no slouches, people like Puma are good because they work extremely hard. Nevertheless, he has no equity on a mortgage, likely little credit to speak of, no savings or training in any kind of work that would enable him to easily reinsert within society. Most importantly, lacking a contract or any frame work to SC2, he also had no job protection or health benefits. Sounds like exploitation to me.
Why are you bringing aysjr's credentials into question? what does that have to do with anything. Nobody cares that you did research at a prestigious university. Especially when you bring it up out of nowhere and it sounds like bragging.
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Come on now really .. is this thread really reaching 5000 posts now?
To strip it down
-> EG used "western world" ... e.g. ( tehe ;D ) capitalistic strategies to get a player on their rooster. There is absolutely nothing wrong with how EG behaved .. even from a german overregulated point of view. They simply offering him a living for what he does with his full passion.
-> They didn't inform TL's sc2 general forum before they do business decisions ... daaaawwwwwww :,(
-> People think this is BM and it will hurt EG's possibilities to do further business with korean players ( based on cultural misbehaving from EG ) ... well certainly.
However TSL did a terrible business decision there. They didn't secured their best product with valid contracts. Like they didn't numerous times before ( Tester and Fruitdealer ). Thats simply a bad business decision.
Like really guys ... this is first semester business stuff we are talking about here and i didn't even study business as my main course.
On modern capitalism countries is common sense on companies to protect their most value employees ... with either forced fee's on transfer or offering them the best work environment on the market. TSL didn't .. for the 3rd time ... now they mad, because their management sucks and want to cover its bad decisions behind acting mad ( like greek .. or ireland .. or the US gov right now .. or some other literally blank country in the world right now )
The first sign of esports to become truly successful and actually reaching real sponsors is that the same rules are applied as on the outside world / and or sports.
Korea if you'll ever want to join democracy and/or capitalism ... this is your first lesson .. the market rules everything.
TLTD : Save your most valuable player with good working conditions or money or you will lose it too the market.
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I'm disappointed in both Puma and EG.
This probably could have happened much more smoothly.
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Executor, Shaetan: yeah, I should've quoted the weak attempt at an insult, it would've made more sense. To summarize, he assumed I was a 14 year old who lives in his parents' basement and therefore didn't know what things cost. I question his credentials because he questioned mine.
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On July 22 2011 07:58 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 07:51 bkrow wrote:On July 22 2011 07:45 bibbaly wrote:
The story wasn't blown up when fruitdealer left for ST nor was it when rain left for Fnatic. This wasn't an isolated case because many players have been leaving TSL which leads me to believe that some players in the TSL house are unhappy with management.
This story is getting blown up because he just recently won a foreign tournament and got picked up by a foreign team. I would like to know the details a little bit more, sure everyone does, but TSL just playing a victim card doesn't sit well with me. The issue is blown up because EG asked PuMa to join the team without consulting his coach or his current team at the time (TSL) Whether or not the management at TSL is super awesome or really terrible, it is perceived as disrespectful by the EG management to approach the issue in such a way. The coach has set this will set a precedent in the realm of player contracts and he is incredibly upset about the way EG handled the matter. Overall, he has merit in his claims, and particularly when you consider the large focus on respect within the culture. TSL aren't asking for any action or compensation (from what i can read), they are expressing how uneasy they are with how it all happened. I don't understand why it makes a difference. If the player doesn't have a contract, even if there's some kind of verbal agreement(which didn't seem to have any real details other than Puma represents the team and gets to live in the team house), then talking to the management is pretty much pointless. This is seriously how I see the call going EG: Hi, we'd like to offer your player a contract. TSL: We wouldn't like that. EG: Do you have a current contract with him? TSL: No. EG: Ok, then we're going to offer him a contract. I guess if calling someone first and telling them we're going to offer your player a deal is some huge respect thing I'll just have to admit the difference in culture just doesn't translate.
It's not about the contract or not, actually even if he has a contract, he can break the contract easily if he wants to. What do you think the penalty of breaching the contract is? compensating $10k, $20k? I don't think it works that way, at least at this early stage of the sc2 industry. I'd be very surprised if even people, such as Huk Naniwa IdrA, have the contract that force them to compensate $10,000 if they breach the contract. So yes, I think even in western teams where players are bounded by contracts, morality, trust and faith also play an important role too.
If you ask TSL first, then talk to Puma, then it's up to TSL and Puma to work the deal out themselves. The result may still be the same, Puma may still go to EG, but at least it's not shady like this.
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this thread reaks of racism. as if because this dude is korean he OWES something to korean teams and cant make up his own mind. If eg had dont this to say, naniwa, or whatever, everybody would be thrilled. let the man make his own choice. the fact that tsl had no contract just shows the lack of orgnizational professionalism on their part and the fact eg is willing to make inroads into korea with contracted agreements is a great sign for esports.
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why lie about stealing TSL's player? as if any1 would believe puma contacted eg first LOL
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On July 22 2011 08:12 stratmatt wrote:
this thread reaks of racism. as if because this dude is korean he OWES something to korean teams and cant make up his own mind. If eg had dont this to say, naniwa, or whatever, everybody would be thrilled. let the man make his own choice. the fact that tsl had no contract just shows the lack of orgnizational professionalism on their part and the fact eg is willing to make inroads into korea with contracted agreements is a great sign for esports.
i can almost guarantee that people still would not like it if eg did the same thing to a foreign player
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Any chance of a translation? Googletranslate blows
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On July 22 2011 08:16 getSome[703] wrote:Any chance of a translation? Googletranslate blows
Yeah, I don't know why I always try to go to Google Translate for something like this. It's always incomprehensible, and yet ... XD
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On July 22 2011 08:06 XiaN wrote:
Come on now really .. is this thread really reaching 5000 posts now?
To strip it down
-> EG used "western world" ... e.g. ( tehe ;D ) capitalistic strategies to get a player on their rooster. There is absolutely nothing wrong with how EG behaved .. even from a german overregulated point of view. They simply offering him a living for what he does with his full passion.
EG can use whatever tactic they want, but only in their home country.
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Tune in to the weapon of choice stream.
EG's executive director alex Garfield and milkis are the guests
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how will puma practice with teammates? will he live on his own or does this mean EG korea house is coming back? idra going back to korea? will puma's skill suffer as a result of the loss of training environment?
i wonder...
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He hasn't even signed yet...
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listening to weapon of choice, gonna be interesting how EG spins this.
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Wow... well I think that clears up quite a bit.... so he has not officially signed with EG yet.
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GG flame war over nothing. He hasnt signed yet,
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EPT
