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On July 22 2011 03:32 billyX333 wrote:Show nested quote +EG claims that Puma approached them first regarding joining their team, but this is not true. As I know it, EG's owner contacted Puma first. Not only Puma, but other Korean players."
wow are you kidding me EG? if you are lying, way to put your player in an awkward spot. Lie for the organization and make yourself look bad or tell the truth and make the organization look bad?
I've read several times now that EG says Puma approached them.
Where has EG said that? I've yet to see anything official from EG regarding this whole situation.
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On July 22 2011 03:31 vyyye wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 03:31 hydra21 wrote:
From what I understand most Korean teams do not have contracts etc. Korean culture is very different than ours, and in Korea, a team would not have done what EG did. They have different concepts of duty and obligation and EG took advantage of that it would seem. I'm everything but an expert on the BW scene but I'm quite sure they did have contracts and players had very little say in what they could or couldn't do.
they definitely had contracts in BW, although i'm not sure about having very little say in what they could or couldn't do.
well, at least this will make sc2 teams require contracts which should've been done since the beginning
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On July 22 2011 03:24 JiYan wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 03:23 DueSs wrote:
AFAIK, People never hated Miami for going after Lebron. lebron was a free agent, puma was not.
technically he was still legally eligible to be approached by teams. not saying what EG did was morally right, but it was legal. and you cant blame them for trying to attract the good players to create a stronger team, this is what competition is about; $$$.
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does anyone know how common oral or even implied-in-fact contracts are in Korea? (I mean staying on a team for months, getting accomodation and food, maybe even a salary can very much be considered as a contractual relationship even without a contract in some countries as far as I know)
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On July 22 2011 03:31 DwD wrote:
Why the hell would PuMa just randomly contact EG and say hey I wanna join you guys. Lol if you believe that. It's obvious EG approached him.
he could have easily just approached EG and see if they would offer him because he was unhappy maybe with TSL or just wanted to be in more foreign tournaments insted of just GSL or w.e reason. I would rather EG or puma say something now because we got what we think happened from TSL.
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On July 22 2011 03:31 DwD wrote:
Why the hell would PuMa just randomly contact EG and say hey I wanna join you guys. Lol if you believe that. It's obvious EG approached him.
Plenty of reasons it might have happened, being a code B'er in Korea isn't exactly very rewarding playtime wise or financially where as a player of his caliber on a team like EG?
You've got team leagues, clan wars, show matchs, MLGs, Dreamhacks, you name it they will send him there. On top of that his salary is very likely to have increased by a fairly large amount and he will get the "perks" of being an EG member from the various sponsors plus the huge publicity / name recognition he will gain through their PR (Like them or not EG has some of the best / widely heard PR of the forgein teams).
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Wait I can't imagine all Korean teams running on "trust" and no contracts? Is this SC2 specific? What prevents EG from offering $1mm a year to Flash to switch to SC2?
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Wow, he states that EG approached multiple Koreans and they even lied about Puma approaching them first... I just keep getting more and more amazed at the shaddy dealings EG approves. I went from no respect for EG, to disliking them and now I just can't stand them.
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A bit unprofessional by EG to not contact TSL in any way. Still, good luck to Puma in future tournaments.
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On July 22 2011 03:35 kakaman wrote:
Wait I can't imagine all Korean teams running on "trust" and no contracts? Is this SC2 specific? What prevents EG from offering $1mm a year to Flash to switch to SC2?
BW is a whole different story, he was refering to SC2 specifically.
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EG... can't belive they do this kind of stuff. No respect.
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On July 22 2011 03:21 Grimsong wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 02:54 Jibba wrote:On July 22 2011 02:45 JasKo wrote:
SOME of you are ridiculous do you not know how it works in real sports? the player normally goes to the highest bidder, loyalty is sometimes involved, but only when the money change wont make that much of a difference. What EG did wasn't shady, in fact, it is helping players to actually be able to make a living off of e sports. TSL could have offered more, but they couldn't. Why should Puma, and other players, be deprived of this opportunity? That's not at all how it works in real sports. What bothers me far more than the EG-TSL situation is all the idiots in this thread who chime in with an inane comment like "this is just like real sports!" when it actually isn't. Professional sports have an organized system of free agency whereby original teams generally get Right Of First Refusal on anyone that isn't an unrestricted free agent. That usually means that they can match or outbid other teams to retain their players. An unrestricted free agent is teamless. While these tiers don't exist in SC2 (yet), it's pretty clear Puma wasn't teamless. We don't know the details of TSL's contracts but it doesn't seem very strong or else it would have a NCC, but that still doesn't make someone an unrestricted free agent, and it still doesn't make this situation anything like professional sports or Lebron/Miami. Hold on here. You're wrong. Here's why. Rudy Fernandez is a professional basketball player. (Puma is a SC2 pro SC2 player) He plays within the league, the NBA (Currently there is no equivalent to the NBA in SC2. But in a sense, you could say that Korea is a league. and North America is a league. Lets say that. I like it as an analogy.) While Rudy Fernandez is being contracted within the NBA, Rudy Fernandez (While Puma was playing with TSL. We dont know 100% whether he is contracted or not, and even if he is, we dont know that the contract has the wording involved to legally stop something like this from happening, in Korea) was offered a contract from a team in Spain (a team that exists outside of the league, the NBA. EG, a team that exists outside of Korea). The NBA did not fine, or go after, or threaten, the Spanish club that was offering Rudy a contract. Why? Because they aren't a part of their association. They can't pursue anything, realistically, because they aren't affiliated. The league cant impose any infractions because they are not related or under the same rules and regulations. Rudy signing a contract with Spain to play Basketball is equivalent to Rudy signing a contract with South Africa to go Alligator Hunting. It's his choice. He can do whatever he wants while still honoring his contract. If he chose to play in Spain, he would have to work out with his current team (Dallas Mavericks. TSL) how to work out the contract. Whether it's them essentially waiving his contract (what TSL did to Puma, oh hello analogy), or sitting on it as it will be valid if he ever tries to re-enter the league, the NBA (whatever wording that contract he may have with TSL would be valid because he'd be re-entering that league,perse). That would have been up to Dallas/Rudy to sort out. But Spain had every right to offer the contract without asking Mark Cuban (the owner of the Dallas team) if he'd be ok with it. And guess what? No one in the NBA gave a damn about it because this is a common occurence in the league.
Alligators are only native to the United States and China. (And we don't hunt crocodiles here.)
As for your NBA analogy. What utter horseshit. Contract law doesn't simply disappear when someone outside of your league offers you another contract. I'm sure you don't follow soccer, but if you did you'd know that CLUBS have to accept offers from other clubs if those clubs are interested in buying a player. The player can't go to any club that offers him a contract all willy-nilly, whether the club is in another league, another country or another continent. "Can't pursue coz they're not affiliated". What a laugh!
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Looks like TSL had their salaries cut or removed. In light of FD and TricksteR leaving I thought that freed up 50k+ in salary a year, but I guess not. Doubt EG would compete with 20,000+ salary + living expenses + great practice environment. Then again maybe they can.. I'm excited and weary about this whole thing. Excited because that means we'll see more PuMa, weary because without high-level practice partners to constantly practice with, talk to, and bounce ideas off PuMa's skills may not stay in tip top shape/form. I would've liked to see EG do some kind of partnership deal with a Korean team, somewhere in the middle the deals between oGs-TL and oGs-SK.
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What part of "contacting the original team regarding a transfer is a natural courtesy" do people not get? This isn't about contracts!
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On July 22 2011 03:31 StarcraftKevin wrote:
Why didn't sir scoots approach the coach of the tsl for the player offer like fxo did with fou?
Because PuMa was, contractually speaking, not a TSL player. There's nothing to talk about with the TSL owners, sine the player isn't theirs.
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Hey can I have your car? I'll pay you later.
Oh don't worry about getting it in writing, I'm Korean. Our culture is based on trust.
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On July 22 2011 03:34 Namu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 03:31 vyyye wrote:On July 22 2011 03:31 hydra21 wrote:
From what I understand most Korean teams do not have contracts etc. Korean culture is very different than ours, and in Korea, a team would not have done what EG did. They have different concepts of duty and obligation and EG took advantage of that it would seem. I'm everything but an expert on the BW scene but I'm quite sure they did have contracts and players had very little say in what they could or couldn't do. they definitely had contracts in BW, although i'm not sure about having very little say in what they could or couldn't do. well, at least this will make sc2 teams require contracts which should've been done since the beginning
Meant it in the context of team jumping/switching. That's the impression I got from reading various KESPA hate things a while ago, I didn't follow the BW scene so I might be remembering this 100% incorrectly.
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Does Puma even speak English lol. I wonder how EG will talk to Puma in the house.
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EPT
