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On July 21 2011 18:17 W2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 17:47 Duravi wrote:On July 21 2011 17:37 seiferoth10 wrote:On July 21 2011 17:33 Cuddle wrote:
I don't understand how this is terrible by either Puma or EG.
I have a job, I'm contracted and have a salary. I get job offers by other companies every now and then, I talk to them about what they offer and when I find something I prefer to my current work situation (be it better pay, better work environment or what have you) I go tell my current boss that I have gotten a better offer and I resign my position. According to basic Swedish employee law (which is in my contract) I have to stay on for 3 month after quitting (to give my employee a chance to find a replacement) BUT we can negotiate this time down to 0 days if both parts agree.
It seems like this was exactly what happened in the Puma-EG case and I don't see anything wrong with it, at all. If TSL wanted to hold Puma to his contract, they could probably have and EG would have had to wait until it expired. They chose not to, in agreement with Puma. Case closed. Oh thank god, someone with a brain. You are a rare breed. Sports do not work like most other jobs. This comparison is worthless. If you play in the NFL you can't just leave your team mid-season because another team offers you more money. Yeah teams =/= companies. There's a lot more loyalty involved, and also every team is in direct competition with each other. So the closest example for you (I would still refrain from using the team/company comparison) would be leaving AMD for Intel... or something
Bull shit, teams are companies. Anytime a player is traded/released/not resigned you always here them say, "its a business" because thats exactly what it is.
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On July 21 2011 18:17 Doodsmack wrote:
Reading this thread for the laughs at this point. Comparing Puma to Lebron James ROFL.
It's obviously not a a physical resemblance. They just have really similar vertical leap. C'mon.
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On July 21 2011 18:16 ICA wrote:
Sure it is not nice by EG but that's the business. Don't like TSL's statement and also nobody knows what's happening inside the house. Strange stuff indeed.
But for EG, this move is totally baller.
People are all up in arms and they don't even know what the hell EG or Puma did or said.
It could have been as simple as EG Alex saying, "Hey Puma, I don't know what your situation is, but if you're ever interested in joining a foreign team we'd bring you aboard as a salaried player in a fucking heartbeat."
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On July 21 2011 18:11 SourD wrote:PlayXP.com Article LinkRough Translation summary Korean SCII scene is becoming "farm" for foreign team 1. As of now, there is no contract between players and teams. 2. Infrastructure needs to be setup ASAP to prevent moves like this possible. 3. current SCII organization is not doing much. 4. Foreign SCII scene is becoming huge and Korean SCII scene needs to grow
Thanks alot for this.
I can't believe we are in a situation where Koreans are scared of their players disappearing to the big money overseas.
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On July 21 2011 18:18 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:17 TheKefka wrote:
I really cant read thru all of these 100 pages but as far as i come i see people going on about the how EG is this big bad corporate engine that stole away innocent Puma and that Puma had no choice but to take the deal(lol?)
Seriously guys ill tell you something.
This guy Puma,hes 19 years old,since the sc2 came out he has struggled to get into code A.
Than what happens is he gets invited to this foreign event and wins 50 k $.
He is 19 years old and you win 50 k $(or 40 forgot what it was) in a foreign tournament,he goes home,looks at the pit of code B that takes a heroic effort to climb out of and code A which prize pool is just laughable,he looks at all that,and he takes the first fucking offer to join a foreign pro team that comes to you on the table.Can you blame him or EG?
You people need a reality check. You completely missed the point that he was only able to win the 50k$ because his team made him good and the foreigners suck balls compared to the koreans. Joining the foreigners will make him bad and he won't get the price money and will sit there, next to incontrol, and as himself "Why are the good koreans stealing our prize money!?"
Maybe he feels that he made himself good and doesn't attribute TSL for that?
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On July 21 2011 18:18 Namu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:17 TheKefka wrote:
I really cant read thru all of these 100 pages but as far as i come i see people going on about the how EG is this big bad corporate engine that stole away innocent Puma and that Puma had no choice but to take the deal(lol?)
Seriously guys ill tell you something.
This guy Puma,hes 19 years old,since the sc2 came out he has struggled to get into code A.
Than what happens is he gets invited to this foreign event and wins 50 k $.
He is 19 years old and you win 50 k $(or 40 forgot what it was) in a foreign tournament,he goes home,looks at the pit of code B that takes a heroic effort to climb out of and code A which prize pool is just laughable,he looks at all that,and he takes the first fucking offer to join a foreign pro team that comes to you on the table.Can you blame him or EG?
You people need a reality check. uhh actually from the look of things puma seems to be staying in korea, and traveling to foreign events. so yeah everything you just said is out the window...
What!?!?What has that to do with anything?He might stay on the moon for all i care.My point is he took a offer from the team that is guaranteed to send him to all the foreign events.Like Rain for instance and Oz.
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On July 21 2011 18:17 TheKefka wrote:
I really cant read thru all of these 100 pages but as far as i come i see people going on about the how EG is this big bad corporate engine that stole away innocent Puma and that Puma had no choice but to take the deal(lol?)
Seriously guys ill tell you something.
This guy Puma,hes 19 years old,since the sc2 came out he has struggled to get into code A.
Than what happens is he gets invited to this foreign event and wins 50 k $.
He is 19 years old and he wins 50 k $(or 40 forgot what it was) in a foreign tournament,he goes home,looks at the pit of code B that takes a heroic effort to climb out of and code A which prize pool is just laughable,he looks at all that,and he takes the first fucking offer to join a foreign pro team that comes to you on the table.Can you blame him or EG?
You people need a reality check.
Reality check for sure  )))
Think most people on these forums should stick to playing sc2, since they obviously dont understand how things work in real life
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Maybe I should have been a little more clear.
My line about scoots, it was supposed to imply, I am waiting for his statement... Then the rest was "but if its trues".. Sorry, Am under slept.
I forgot posting on TL is like walking on glass... My bad.
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On July 21 2011 18:13 Gamegene wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:12 yeint wrote:On July 21 2011 18:10 Gamegene wrote:
You have no fucking idea what you're talking about.
I'm glad you conceded the argument by not having one. There's no point in arguments when a country's business is compared to it's suicide rates.
I said that Japanese professionals have far higher suicide rates, which is caused by the same culture of respect and shame that you credit for a CEO cutting his salary.
Well, you know what? The salary of Steve Jobs was $1 per annum for several years. The plural of anecdote is not data.
The fact is that Korean progamers are often treated incredibly poorly, and the justification given is "oh, it's our culture". There's a point when it stops being normal cultural differences and starts being an exploitation of those differences in order to pocket more money.
Lee may well treat a lot of his players really well. Maybe Clide and Alive are great friends with lots of respect for the guy. But surely not everyone on the team has cause for such loyalty. Surely not everyone on the team makes a living wage.
The problem I have with the "culture" and "respect" argument is that it's applied with a broad brush to every professional relationship. EVERY member of TSL should treat it like family, because them's the rules.
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A bit worried to see how this effects pumas play since he just lost all his practice partners and is on his own now
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On July 21 2011 18:19 GuardianEU wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:18 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:17 TheKefka wrote:
I really cant read thru all of these 100 pages but as far as i come i see people going on about the how EG is this big bad corporate engine that stole away innocent Puma and that Puma had no choice but to take the deal(lol?)
Seriously guys ill tell you something.
This guy Puma,hes 19 years old,since the sc2 came out he has struggled to get into code A.
Than what happens is he gets invited to this foreign event and wins 50 k $.
He is 19 years old and you win 50 k $(or 40 forgot what it was) in a foreign tournament,he goes home,looks at the pit of code B that takes a heroic effort to climb out of and code A which prize pool is just laughable,he looks at all that,and he takes the first fucking offer to join a foreign pro team that comes to you on the table.Can you blame him or EG?
You people need a reality check. uhh actually from the look of things puma seems to be staying in korea, and traveling to foreign events. so yeah everything you just said is out the window... not really, he still gets more money and will participate in more foreign events, which part of what he said is wrong now?
uh he was comparing the pits of GSL to the opportunities of foreign events?
it's obvious that puma will play in GSL still. and to be honest, i don't think anyone is blaming puma for taking the deal or EG wanting puma, it's more that EVERYTHING was done before letting tsl know about anything that was happening, then puma goes back with a set mind to join EG, tells coach lee, then leaves.
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On July 21 2011 18:17 TheKefka wrote:
I really cant read thru all of these 100 pages but as far as i come i see people going on about the how EG is this big bad corporate engine that stole away innocent Puma and that Puma had no choice but to take the deal(lol?)
Seriously guys ill tell you something.
This guy Puma,hes 19 years old,since the sc2 came out he has struggled to get into code A.
Than what happens is he gets invited to this foreign event and wins 50 k $.
He is 19 years old and he wins 50 k $(or 40 forgot what it was) in a foreign tournament,he goes home,looks at the pit of code B that takes a heroic effort to climb out of and code A which prize pool is just laughable,he looks at all that,and he takes the first fucking offer to join a foreign pro team that comes to you on the table.Can you blame him or EG?
You people need a reality check.
Can you blame Puma? No, probably not.
Can you blame EG? Yes, and since EG wants to be this big and serious business you even have to.
Edit: This is if everything in the op is true. So waiting for an EG statement is probably best.
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On July 21 2011 18:18 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:17 TheKefka wrote:
I really cant read thru all of these 100 pages but as far as i come i see people going on about the how EG is this big bad corporate engine that stole away innocent Puma and that Puma had no choice but to take the deal(lol?)
Seriously guys ill tell you something.
This guy Puma,hes 19 years old,since the sc2 came out he has struggled to get into code A.
Than what happens is he gets invited to this foreign event and wins 50 k $.
He is 19 years old and you win 50 k $(or 40 forgot what it was) in a foreign tournament,he goes home,looks at the pit of code B that takes a heroic effort to climb out of and code A which prize pool is just laughable,he looks at all that,and he takes the first fucking offer to join a foreign pro team that comes to you on the table.Can you blame him or EG?
You people need a reality check. You completely missed the point that he was only able to win the 50k$ because his team made him good and the foreigners suck balls compared to the koreans. Joining the foreigners will make him bad and he won't get the price money and will sit there, next to incontrol, and as himself "Why are the good koreans stealing our prize money!?"
Because his team made him good? Puma made himself good through the skills hes retained from SC1 and his work ethic. Not the team. TSL, EVEN before Puma produced poor results so I doubt its the environment. MC even said that he practiced with Puma a lot when he switched over, this suggests that Puma has many resources at his deposal.
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On July 21 2011 18:20 Blaec wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:11 SourD wrote:PlayXP.com Article LinkRough Translation summary Korean SCII scene is becoming "farm" for foreign team 1. As of now, there is no contract between players and teams. 2. Infrastructure needs to be setup ASAP to prevent moves like this possible. 3. current SCII organization is not doing much. 4. Foreign SCII scene is becoming huge and Korean SCII scene needs to grow Thanks alot for this. I can't believe we are in a situation where Koreans are scared of their players disappearing to the big money overseas.
The statement that there are no contracts between players and teams is false
It's true for many players, but not for all players.
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Puma is one of the best Terrans in the world if not THE best Terran in the world. Good news for EG. Bad news for everyone else.
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On July 21 2011 18:16 Copenap wrote:
I don't know, for some reason EG is the only team I would expect to do something like that and that probably says a lot. It may be not a scandal or what ever but still leaves a bitter taste.
Afaik EG and FXO have by far the most money in their pockets in the foreigner scene but I feel like FXO is using it way way better than EG.
Yes, other player aquisitions have not met this kind of fury, they went through proper procedure and because it was done behind closed dors between all stakeholders, they could then release the news in a solid way.
This was an unskilled move by the EG-managers and the lesson will surely be learned. I think this thread has accomplished something after all.
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On July 21 2011 18:20 SafeAsCheese wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:18 KeksX wrote:On July 21 2011 18:17 TheKefka wrote:
I really cant read thru all of these 100 pages but as far as i come i see people going on about the how EG is this big bad corporate engine that stole away innocent Puma and that Puma had no choice but to take the deal(lol?)
Seriously guys ill tell you something.
This guy Puma,hes 19 years old,since the sc2 came out he has struggled to get into code A.
Than what happens is he gets invited to this foreign event and wins 50 k $.
He is 19 years old and you win 50 k $(or 40 forgot what it was) in a foreign tournament,he goes home,looks at the pit of code B that takes a heroic effort to climb out of and code A which prize pool is just laughable,he looks at all that,and he takes the first fucking offer to join a foreign pro team that comes to you on the table.Can you blame him or EG?
You people need a reality check. You completely missed the point that he was only able to win the 50k$ because his team made him good and the foreigners suck balls compared to the koreans. Joining the foreigners will make him bad and he won't get the price money and will sit there, next to incontrol, and as himself "Why are the good koreans stealing our prize money!?" Maybe he feels that he made himself good and doesn't attribute TSL for that?
According to his coach this isn't the case and I trust him more than someone leaving his team that picked him because they believed in him to become a good player for a team that wants him because he IS a good player and only sees the money that he could bring.
@Angelbelow:
Do you really think that he would've beome that good if it wasn't TSL making it possible? I highly doubt it.
Also, remember that PuMa is only Code B. That alone proofs where foreigners really are.
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On July 21 2011 18:19 jmbthirteen wrote:
Bull shit, teams are companies. Anytime a player is traded/released/not resigned you always here them say, "its a business" because thats exactly what it is.
And EG, one of the most VISIBLE teams, has a responsibility to behave LIKE a business and not embarrass Foreigner E-Sports with shady deals.
I am not saying its a bad sign up etc, or that EG is the demon of sc2. But from a corporate point of view, without paying a signing bonus to TSL etc, its incorrect. I usually don't do business with companies who are known for under the table head hunting..
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United Kingdom940 Posts
Unless EG has a radically different story regarding how this went down, I think this will have a pretty negative impact on the way Korea views the foreign scene.
Puma wanted to switch, and I'm sure EG have provided him with a good contract etc etc.
However they could be viewed as naive to be talking directly to players without consulting the team, at least at some level.
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EPT
