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On July 21 2011 18:20 FXOpen wrote:
Maybe I should have been a little more clear.
My line about scoots, it was supposed to imply, I am waiting for his statement... Then the rest was "but if its trues".. Sorry, Am under slept.
 Your perspective is taken with more weight (not a bad thing!) But I thought it was just an issue of wording. Thanks for the input youve shared.
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Congratulations to EG and Puma, abit unproffesional way of doing things but never the less. I look forward to seeing puma play under EG
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On July 21 2011 18:18 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:14 FXOpen wrote:On July 21 2011 17:57 Tachion wrote:
Players like Sheth and QXC left ROOT for FXO because of money and travel expenses etc which ROOT couldn't provide. FXOBoss sure didn't consult drewbie and catz and ask them for their permission.
Is this a disrespecting Korean ethics thing? Cause stuff like this is very common when players switch teams in the west. Catz and drewbie were in the loop there. It went like this. FXO says they will get team. FXO says "hi sheth" discussions start with sheth as intermediary, and sheth decides to join FXO. Catz and I remain on talking terms. QXC tells root "guys i need more financial support so I'll look for a team". Qxc comes to FXO, QXC decides to join FXO, and does so.. Drewbie catz and Boss get drunk at MLG together and much a laugh is had. I'm not saying catz drewbie etc and I are best friends. We obviously aren't. But there was no 'love lost' because of that situation. Thats because they were kept in the loop of whats going on. I.e ethical practice. I don't think scoots is the kind of guy who would be un-ethical (God i hope not) but what has been announced, from not only a business point of view (after all I am a business dick) but from a community point of view, is unethical. It damages reputations, it then may start a snowballing effect if legal disregard (in terms of contracts). It also encourages players to be a little bit more selfish, which sometimes can already be a problem. I am not saying its a bad sign up etc, or that EG is the demon of sc2. But from a corporate point of view, without paying a signing bonus to TSL etc, its incorrect. I usually don't do business with companies who are known for under the table head hunting.. While a respected team owners opinion on the matter is always welcome, the details of Puma's relationship with TSL are still incredibly nebulous, and you making business judgements based on what little evidence we have available does no one any good. Save the judgements until after we know exactly how things went down.
Where the fuck in that post did he make a judgement on Scoots or EG? He said IF it's true... and then BoSs gave a very unique and reasonable business perspective.
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On July 21 2011 18:17 TheKefka wrote:
I really cant read thru all of these 100 pages but as far as i come i see people going on about the how EG is this big bad corporate engine that stole away innocent Puma and that Puma had no choice but to take the deal(lol?)
Seriously guys ill tell you something.
This guy Puma,hes 19 years old,since the sc2 came out he has struggled to get into code A.
Than what happens is he gets invited to this foreign event and wins 50 k $.
He is 19 years old and he wins 50 k $(or 40 forgot what it was) in a foreign tournament,he goes home,looks at the pit of code B that takes a heroic effort to climb out of and code A which prize pool is just laughable,he looks at all that,and he takes the first fucking offer to join a foreign pro team that comes to you on the table.Can you blame him or EG?
You people need a reality check.
Puma joining EG doesn't mean he is no longer competing in GSL. From what I am reading, he is still in Korea and will most likely compete in GSL because it's the closest tournament at home.
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On July 21 2011 18:14 TUski wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:11 SourD wrote:PlayXP.com Article LinkRough Translation summary Korean SCII scene is becoming "farm" for foreign team 1. As of now, there is no contract between players and teams. 2. Infrastructure needs to be setup ASAP to prevent moves like this possible. 3. current SCII organization is not doing much. 4. Foreign SCII scene is becoming huge and Korean SCII scene needs to grow Thank you for the underlining. Your post would have gotten lost in the 100-page shitstorm if it didn't have that.
im very surprised by the fact that there is no contract between players and teams...article points out the fact that they are relying on the "trust" to keep the team together..and teams actually cant do anything about players moving around..
altho I dislike Kespa, it makes me want them to run the show..current sc2 organization doesnt seem to do much to set up a structure professionally.
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On July 21 2011 18:17 L3g3nd_ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:15 RevOrchid wrote:
Seriously, a real dick move by EG... oh well. I'm glad that Puma is becoming more and more recognized! how is it a dick move?
i dont think it is a dick move. remember when trickster and fruitdealer and even rain leave because they want to compete in foreign tournament so they join ST. and coach respect their decision but now PuMa want it now also. i think the coach is angry because puma is their last ace, but when his Code S players leave its ok for him but when his code B player not?
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They truely are evil geniuses.
Pretty disgusting way to go about it indeed.
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On July 21 2011 18:19 sandg wrote:
don't really understand what the debate is... poaching is poaching
no contract is no contract. Poaching is just a word with negative connotation to make people have a negative response to the situation. How can you define this situation as poaching?
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So many ppl baned for/warned for nothing lol gotta love TL.
Seems like EG are trying to keep up with FXO.
The thing is its not like this is the end of koreans being bought by foreign teams. Not sure if its a good or bad thing 
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On July 21 2011 18:23 Gamegene wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:19 jmbthirteen wrote:
Bull shit, teams are companies. Anytime a player is traded/released/not resigned you always here them say, "its a business" because thats exactly what it is. And EG, one of the most VISIBLE teams, has a responsibility to behave LIKE a business and not embarrass Foreigner E-Sports with shady deals. Show nested quote +
I am not saying its a bad sign up etc, or that EG is the demon of sc2. But from a corporate point of view, without paying a signing bonus to TSL etc, its incorrect. I usually don't do business with companies who are known for under the table head hunting..
Except it really isn't shady.
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this is crazy news. I think it's good for puma and sc2 in general to mix players around, I think that mr. Lee has it all backwards and is probably frustrated for all of the trouble his team is in.
This makes me think of the interview with Puma when one of the hot chicks was like, "what does this mean for your team?" and he was so honorable saying something like, "i hope i can make my team stronger", yet the whole time he was really wanting to leave. rofl.
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On July 21 2011 18:24 SourD wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:14 TUski wrote:On July 21 2011 18:11 SourD wrote:PlayXP.com Article LinkRough Translation summary Korean SCII scene is becoming "farm" for foreign team 1. As of now, there is no contract between players and teams. 2. Infrastructure needs to be setup ASAP to prevent moves like this possible. 3. current SCII organization is not doing much. 4. Foreign SCII scene is becoming huge and Korean SCII scene needs to grow Thank you for the underlining. Your post would have gotten lost in the 100-page shitstorm if it didn't have that. im very surprised by the fact that there is no contract between players and teams...article points out the fact that they are relying on the "trust" to keep the team together..and teams actually cant do anything about players moving around.. altho I dislike Kespa, it makes me want them to run the show..current sc2 organization doesnt seem to do much to set up a structure professionally.
It may have been surprising a few months ago... but players seem to get out of their contracts pretty easily. Rain, FD, trickster, Oz, they all kind of just jumped ship without problems. Makes sense that there arent any actual contract doesnt it?
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What does it say about the human race that we have 107 pages of sweeping conclusions and condemnations despite having very little information about what actually happened (and only one side of the story)?
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TSL = Cleveland Cavaliers
PuMa = LeBron James the Quitness
EG = Miami Heat
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On July 21 2011 18:23 PHC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:18 farvacola wrote:On July 21 2011 18:14 FXOpen wrote:On July 21 2011 17:57 Tachion wrote:
Players like Sheth and QXC left ROOT for FXO because of money and travel expenses etc which ROOT couldn't provide. FXOBoss sure didn't consult drewbie and catz and ask them for their permission.
Is this a disrespecting Korean ethics thing? Cause stuff like this is very common when players switch teams in the west. Catz and drewbie were in the loop there. It went like this. FXO says they will get team. FXO says "hi sheth" discussions start with sheth as intermediary, and sheth decides to join FXO. Catz and I remain on talking terms. QXC tells root "guys i need more financial support so I'll look for a team". Qxc comes to FXO, QXC decides to join FXO, and does so.. Drewbie catz and Boss get drunk at MLG together and much a laugh is had. I'm not saying catz drewbie etc and I are best friends. We obviously aren't. But there was no 'love lost' because of that situation. Thats because they were kept in the loop of whats going on. I.e ethical practice. I don't think scoots is the kind of guy who would be un-ethical (God i hope not) but what has been announced, from not only a business point of view (after all I am a business dick) but from a community point of view, is unethical. It damages reputations, it then may start a snowballing effect if legal disregard (in terms of contracts). It also encourages players to be a little bit more selfish, which sometimes can already be a problem. I am not saying its a bad sign up etc, or that EG is the demon of sc2. But from a corporate point of view, without paying a signing bonus to TSL etc, its incorrect. I usually don't do business with companies who are known for under the table head hunting.. While a respected team owners opinion on the matter is always welcome, the details of Puma's relationship with TSL are still incredibly nebulous, and you making business judgements based on what little evidence we have available does no one any good. Save the judgements until after we know exactly how things went down. Where the fuck in that post did he make a judgement on Scoots or EG? He said IF it's true... and then BoSs gave a very unique and reasonable business perspective.
"but what has been announced, from not only a business point of view (after all I am a business dick) but from a community point of view, is unethical." That little bit at the end, the "is unethical" part, has yet to be determined by anything concrete. FXOboss already clarified, you can pull your panties back up bro.
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On July 21 2011 18:25 Za7oX wrote:So many ppl baned for/warned for adding nothing lol gotta love TL. Seems like EG are trying to keep up with FXO. The thing is its not like this is the end of koreans being bought by foreign teams. Not sure if its a good or bad thing
fixed it
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Koreans are really going to take this badly, seems like a very shady move by EG but we don't know the full story. Hopefully Puma is happy and we get to see more of him but lets hope this has been handeled correctly.
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On July 21 2011 18:25 Demonace34 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:19 sandg wrote:
don't really understand what the debate is... poaching is poaching no contract is no contract. Poaching is just a word with negative connotation to make people have a negative response to the situation. How can you define this situation as poaching?
guess it's not poaching because there's no set rules/infrastructure yet with sc2 because it's new.
but to me thats just exploiting the lack of rules, which I guess you can't blame EG for doing, but nonetheless a negative thing....
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is this the end of TSL? I thought pumas win was going to help them turn it around. But puma switching right after a big win at NASL, has to be a huge blow.
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EPT
