EPTThe Korean Experience by FXOBoSs - Page 7
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Cartel
Canada255 Posts
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FXOpen
Australia1844 Posts
On July 15 2011 20:04 AnalThermometer wrote: I would agree with what sunman1g posted to an extent, most people probably won't give an honest opinion in this thread as they're intimidated by everyone with a face recognizable outside the forum. Its fine giving your own opinion, but you shouldn't be saying every foreign caster has a "problem" which needs to be fixed, and that you can be the one to fix it and give them pointers, when its not your field. You should really drop the wild comparisons between ladders which I've only seen you repeat before, if someone seriously said korean platinums are equaling high-masters on NA it's going to be dismissed as trolling anywhere else. (and for that one nerd raging right now, Destiny is stuck in platinum because of ladder lock) Also some of what you labelled as Fact: was opinion, like what a true practice schedule is. 12 hours a day is a bad way to disintegrate a tendon. Toodles. I dont want to argue with you. But it sounds like reality hasn't exactly caught up with you. Although a rare few foreigners would go to korea and immediately play well. The ladder is what it is. Most of my team will back me up in saying that. In terms of practice. Most korean teams I spoke to do 12-14 hours a day practice, 6-7 days a week. Thats why they are BETTER. even the guys at the PCbang will do 10 hour sessions. Caster debate could go on for years. I only look at things from a business perspective, what will make money come into the sport of starcraft 2. Not what will make fans happy. Some companies require their image to be maintained at the highest professional level. Some casters do not do that. I simply said 10% of what they do has to change. Whilst, some of what you have labelled "Fact" was opinion, which you are entitled to. You shouldn't go dismissing the community. Saying that they are afraid to speak their opinion. Its easier to criticise when the public eye is not on you. | ||
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Enchanted
United States1609 Posts
On July 15 2011 20:21 FXOpen wrote: I dont want to argue with you. But it sounds like reality hasn't exactly caught up with you. Although a rare few foreigners would go to korea and immediately play well. The ladder is what it is. Most of my team will back me up in saying that. In terms of practice. Most korean teams I spoke to do 12-14 hours a day practice, 6-7 days a week. Thats why they are BETTER. even the guys at the PCbang will do 10 hour sessions. Caster debate could go on for years. I only look at things from a business perspective, what will make money come into the sport of starcraft 2. Not what will make fans happy. Some companies require their image to be maintained at the highest professional level. Some casters do not do that. I simply said 10% of what they do has to change. Whilst, some of what you have labelled "Fact" was opinion, which you are entitled to. You shouldn't go dismissing the community. Saying that they are afraid to speak their opinion. Its easier to criticise when the public eye is not on you. Sometimes you have to make fans happy because in the end they're what make esports possible. | ||
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pandaminion
United States270 Posts
On July 15 2011 15:41 FXOpen wrote: Highlight: ChoyafOu came to BBQ with us after a Code A day where nuclear was playing. We then convinced him that tgun was a transvestite, and he seriously believed us. Score 1 team, 0 tgun FXOBoSs How come no one picked up on this? Hilarious. Great write up, I always enjoy reading reports from Korea :D It's good to know that you guys are enjoying yourself in Korea while still learning to play at a high level. The GSTL is pretty rough, but it's good to know that you guys are improving every day. FXO Fighting! PS. Loved the bit about the flameguns. | ||
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thepeonwhocould
Australia334 Posts
On July 15 2011 16:27 Devolved wrote: The main problem I have with the English casting is how they talk down to the players. Most casters are guilty of this, but especially Wolf, and most of the time he's not even strategically correct. I can hardly remember a game where he doesn't say how bad a certain player was when he's missing a drop in the main or just doesn't understand exactly what it is the player is doing. I don't mind a player being criticized when he is making blatant mistakes, but I do mind a player being criticized for the simple fact that he lost a battle, or is falling behind in the game when they are competing against some of the best players in the world. I totally agree. Casters should focus on the positive aspects of people's play and recognize that when someone makes a "blunder" it is because they're 300 apm was dedicated to another location of the map. I hate when a player looses a banshee and the caster is like "OMG he didn't micro it correctly!". The reason he lost the banshee was because he was back at his base macroing. Sometimes you just have to macro and hope that your unit doesnt die. Yes if someone makes a huge strategical or micro error you can mention it, but then get on with the cast. I remember watching a recent cast by Tastosis where they were constantly pointing out the mistakes of both players. "Oh he should not be attacking here. He should wait to max first. The zergs macro is terrible! (even though he only had 100minerals/100 gas stockpiled??). It gets really annoying and makes the cast depressing. Overall casters just don't seem to recognize that these pro players are playing at ridiculous speeds, sometimes they don't have time to think out some awesome strategy, or realise that they don't have enough units to attack. It's easy to criticise a players strategy when you are sitting there spectating, with maphacks, and you don't have to worry about keeping up your 300 apm. SC2 is impossible to play perfectly and I think casters shouldn't be so harsh on the players, especially players who are Code S level... | ||
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On July 15 2011 18:49 Milkis wrote: That is a very sharp observation and I'm surprised you noticed something like that. cause it's quite true:O I think "largest amount of artillery in the world pointed at your head every moment" probably has a *lot* to do with it. This is why North Korea is such a huge problem. (For those not in the know, North Korea's army is a joke and South Korea could roll them in probably 2 weeks. The issue is that NK has pretty much the world's largest artillery force and it could bombard Seoul in about 30 minutes. It's their trump card in the situation. Civilian death toll could pass 100k if they went to war.) | ||
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Zandar
Netherlands1541 Posts
Caster debate could go on for years. I only look at things from a business perspective, what will make money come into the sport of starcraft 2. Not what will make fans happy. Some companies require their image to be maintained at the highest professional level. Some casters do not do that. I simply said 10% of what they do has to change That's such a sad line. I don't give a rats ass about a big companies image. But if they sponsor e-sports and I have the opportunity to drink either pepsi or cocacola I will drink the one that sponsors starcraft. But if they start telling how casters should cast, instead of us fans, that's not what we want do we? I do understand you cannot get a sponsor like Coca Cola when you are cursing all day, but please don't let big companies dictate your casting too much, unless you want e-sports to go to the level of prime time tv programs | ||
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Jehct
New Zealand9115 Posts
On July 15 2011 20:27 Megatronn wrote: Sometimes you have to make fans happy because in the end they're what make esports possible. Sometimes you have to please the companies because, in the end, they're what make esports profitable & so economically possible ie. a professional sport. Edit: there's no use putting opinion against fact. At some point, in order to get big sponsors involved, the larger esports events need to take themselves seriously. Players like Destiny can do their own thing; the GSL english cast, on the other hand, might need to step it up (as much as everyone loves Tastosis). | ||
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zul
Germany5427 Posts
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Dakkas
2550 Posts
The rest of it was a great read and very insightful into what it's like in Korea. It's great that you took FXO to Korea for as long as you did, I really enjoyed seeing them play (and seeing more qxc is great because he is so boss) and am very excited for what this will do to them in future tournaments. On July 15 2011 20:29 pandaminion wrote: How come no one picked up on this? Hilarious. Great write up, I always enjoy reading reports from Korea :D It's good to know that you guys are enjoying yourself in Korea while still learning to play at a high level. The GSTL is pretty rough, but it's good to know that you guys are improving every day. FXO Fighting! PS. Loved the bit about the flameguns. I noticed it as well, I had to stifle myself with laughter | ||
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On July 15 2011 20:21 FXOpen wrote: I dont want to argue with you. But it sounds like reality hasn't exactly caught up with you. Although a rare few foreigners would go to korea and immediately play well. The ladder is what it is. Most of my team will back me up in saying that. In terms of practice. Most korean teams I spoke to do 12-14 hours a day practice, 6-7 days a week. Thats why they are BETTER. even the guys at the PCbang will do 10 hour sessions. Caster debate could go on for years. I only look at things from a business perspective, what will make money come into the sport of starcraft 2. Not what will make fans happy. Some companies require their image to be maintained at the highest professional level. Some casters do not do that. I simply said 10% of what they do has to change. Whilst, some of what you have labelled "Fact" was opinion, which you are entitled to. You shouldn't go dismissing the community. Saying that they are afraid to speak their opinion. Its easier to criticise when the public eye is not on you. I see the Ladder stuff come up a lot, but it kind of doesn't mean too much, outside of GM. Since the NA ladder is, what, about 2x, or more, larger than the Korean server, a "Masters" on NA wouldn't necessarily be Masters on a server that's far, far smaller. So the relationships could never be 1-1. This is kind of an aside to discussion, but it's something people miss when talking about the Ladder. The upper-end of the Korean ladder should be a lot harder. And if "the competition level you play against" is a big deal for increasing skill, then NA ladder players would be at a disadvantage. Oh, and, cool post, the Flameguns do seem like a bad idea, lol. | ||
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Spicy Pepper
United States632 Posts
On July 15 2011 20:29 pandaminion wrote: How come no one picked up on this? Hilarious. Great write up, I always enjoy reading reports from Korea :D It's good to know that you guys are enjoying yourself in Korea while still learning to play at a high level. The GSTL is pretty rough, but it's good to know that you guys are improving every day. FXO Fighting! PS. Loved the bit about the flameguns. Meh, probably because OP's jokes aren't as funny as he thinks to 10% of people :p. But now let's move, because OP is going to criticizing other casters' sense of humor. FXOBoss is apparently the bearer of truth on good comedy and casting procedure, lol that's a joke. The idea of limiting jokes to good jokes is pretty moronic. If you want a comparison of casters to another sports team, it's to TNT's NBA team with Ernie, Kenny, Charles Barkley, Chris Webber and now with Shaq. They talk all sorts of shit, talk about black guys, white guys, make comments about how ugly some of the NBA players, etc. They criticize players and teams constantly. They also win all the Emmy's. You know why? People like that. They're widely regarded as the best in their business. They're basically the Tastosis of their field. Also, hey guys, casters make mistakes, they get tired, and if you're talking about growing business, accurate sports analysis isn't necessarily what keeps a bigger audiences in other sports. Entertaining ones do. Most people aren't looking for an education, as much as they're looking for entertainment. | ||
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On July 15 2011 20:39 Zandar wrote: That's such a sad line. I don't give a rats ass about a big companies image. But if they sponsor e-sports and I have the opportunity to drink either pepsi or cocacola I will drink the one that sponsors starcraft. But if they start telling how casters should cast, instead of us fans, that's not what we want do we? I do understand you cannot get a sponsor like Coca Cola when you are cursing all day, but please don't let big companies dictate your casting too much, unless you want e-sports to go to the level of prime time tv programs The Marketing Execs most definitely do. Corporate Image is very important and they're very mindful of it. That's just life. | ||
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On July 15 2011 20:47 Spicy Pepper wrote: Meh, probably because OP's jokes aren't as funny as he thinks to 10% of people :p. But now let's move, because OP is going to criticizing other casters' sense of humor. FXOBoss is apparently the bearer of truth on good comedy and casting procedure, lol that's a joke. The idea of limiting jokes to good jokes is pretty moronic. If you want a comparison of casters to another sports team, it's to TNT's NBA team with Ernie, Kenny, Charles Barkley, Chris Webber and now with Shaq. They talk all sorts of shit, talk about black guys, white guys, make comments about how ugly some of the NBA players, etc. They criticize players and teams constantly. They also win all the Emmy's. You know why? People like that. They're widely regarded as the best in their business. They're basically the Tastosis of their field. Also, hey guys, casters make mistakes, they get tired, and if you're talking about growing business, accurate sports analysis isn't necessarily what keeps a bigger audiences in other sports. Entertaining ones do. Most people aren't looking for an education, as much as they're looking for entertainment. They also have really highly paid media specialists to help them improve. Don't skip over this fact. And they normally don't have time to tell many jokes, or have to kill downtime like SC2 casters can have to, at times. | ||
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FreshNoThyme
United States356 Posts
The 8-hour office work day already causes a lot of health problems, primarily hand/wrist/arm related, and that involves much less physical strain than playing a game at that pace for that long. I am torn about this. I love the competition, but I worry about those, especially younger players, who follow this routine. A few weeks or months playing at that pace won't do permanent damage, but years? There is a definite, obvious risk involved, yet it seems like many players disregard this. A few risks to consider: Increased risk of diabetes (handling of blood sugar becomes less effective) Vitamin D deficiency from lack of sunlight (which seems stereotypical and humorous, but true) Lowering of HDL cholesterol (this is the good cholesterol, which breaks down fats) Slowed metabolism Various spinal curvatures Wearing down of the carpal (permanently) Those are just a few of the main issues that I worry about, but there are numerous others. I've heard some Korean professional teams have mandatory exercise routines, but if they are still sitting for up to 14 hours, using their wrists for the majority of the time, these issues become realistic problems. | ||
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Spicy Pepper
United States632 Posts
On July 15 2011 20:50 Taf the Ghost wrote: They also have really highly paid media specialists to help them improve. Don't skip over this fact. And they normally don't have time to tell many jokes, or have to kill downtime like SC2 casters can have to, at times. Uh, do you watch Ernie, Kenny and Barkley? Let's all speak out of our asses now. WTF are you talking about, they do not have people to help them improve. It's not like they all live down in Atlanta, they fly down there one day a week and do the show with 15 minutes of prep. They improv the show, to give it a natural flow. Also, they kill all sorts of time, the pregame (15 to 1 hour), half time (15min), post game (1hour). They kill lots of time. | ||
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PHC
United States472 Posts
Djwheat's "Professionalism: Mostly an Illusion" comes to mind, which states: + Show Spoiler + Before SC2 and gaming in general blows up to be a true spectator sport, we have to prove that we have a community of people who will support it. As a community our #1 focus should be to support the growth of said community, the introduction and education of new members of the community, and activities/shows/tournaments which encompass the growth of the community. We should not be worrying about the "professional" image of Pro-Gaming because there's not a terrible amount that we can do to help or hurt it. We need to let companies worry about professionalism (MLG, WCG, GSL, etc) while we ourselves remain aware of it. We cannot let the illusion of "professionalism" hinder community growth. Casters walk a fine line between being entertaining and professional. Djwheat mentions a great point that as a community, our #1 focus should be to support the growth of said community, but at the same time, not hinder it. Djwheat's thread was posted in November 2010 and his points are valid in that the game was relatively new (4 months!), but it's now July 2011, and SC2 has already blown up worldwide. I think it's safe to say that the community is pretty big as it is (as of July 2011), and if we want SC2 truly as a sport like it is in Korea, then the casters should be less worried about being entertaining by using "dick jokes" (- tastosis during FXO vs fou GSTL a few minutes ago) and more worried about giving insight on the games/players to the viewers who don't have the unique insight like they do. But above all else, I prefer any caster that knows what he/she is talking about. Like FXOBoss mentioned above for casters, good jokes are good for the growth of the community. Bad jokes are bad. Be more like ESPN/Korean sportscasters, rather than a caster "dumbing it down" to the viewers like we are his/her teenage friends. EDIT: grammar, etc. P.S. Boss, I hope the constructive criticism on foreign casters doesn't overshadow how great and informative your post was on your experience over there. It was a great read and I hope you do more posts like these in the future. | ||
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Gladiator6
Sweden7024 Posts
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WinteRR
Australia201 Posts
The only part I can disagree with is when you brought up the informality of the English casters. I can definitely empathize on where you are coming from but if we were to adopt the 'business-minded' approach to casting, you can easily argue that potential newbies would find it stale and boring. Let's not forget that, sure, the sponsors are what drive tournaments but without the fans this game is nothing. Without the informal and funny types of casters fans might be less engaged with your final product - I argue that that is more important than adopting a business model in the short term (however I definitely can see it becoming way more important come end of HotS expansion or even LotV). | ||
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antilyon
Brazil2546 Posts
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