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On June 26 2011 05:38 Nagisa. wrote:
Haha, thank you for worrying but I'm very dedicated to my studies, I took the SAT in 6th grade so I should be fine.
True story, I was 10 points (out of 1600 at the time) shy of a perfect score on the SAT when I was 14 years old (which was now 26 years ago).
From my perspective right now, this fact indicates nothing about my maturity level at the time, my dedication to school, or anything else except that I was ahead of my peers at the time in math and English.
In fact, after that, I got bad grades for much of high school, and bad enough grades in college to fail out. In each case, my maturity was lagging what it had to be to do the work I was doing, and once I got a couple of years older, I found it much easier to put in the time and effort.
Now, back to the basic question. No, at 13 there's simply no conceivable way you could participate in a top level team like Liquid or EG or (name your favorite Korean team.) The time investment and travel requirements just aren't compatible with your life.
However, I can't imagine why you couldn't find a more casual team that would offer you good practice opportunities appropriate to your skill level.
Tournaments, as people have pointed out, are almost entirely about the legalities. In the U.S., at least, there's a law that restricts collecting personal information on the Internet for kids under age 13, so that is one reason you might have been disallowed at a younger age. Age requirements (usually 16+) for in-person tournaments like MLG often come down to requirements that are imposed by the hosting venue, meaning the convention center where the event is held. That's the same reason that Blizzcon requires attendees under 16 to be accompanied by their parents.
For now, you probably have access to a pretty good range of online tournaments, which are probably where you should be anyway given your current ladder ranking. By the time you get to be 16, you'll probably be much, much better at the game, so maybe being excluded for the time being from live tournaments isn't a bad thing.
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On June 26 2011 13:55 chuigo wrote:
One person in the SC2 community that is a prime example of why children are shunned is sixjax.Major. He's 14 or sommet, he's a complete douche and struggles to show respect to anyone.
On the other hand, he's got a contract. More then one, actually, considering he was in ROOT before sixjax. Idk why other 14 y/o haven't been picked up seeing as that little idiot did.
what the hell
im pretty sure the guy you have in mind and major are two different people
major is older than 18, and from what i've seen, he's never come off as a douche in any way
sure he's a little immature, but he's pretty friendly and very dedicated to the game
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On June 26 2011 14:13 fineshed wrote:
major is older than 18, and from what i've seen, he's never come off as a douche in any way
sure he's a little immature, but he's pretty friendly and very dedicated to the game
He's either 17 or freshly 18.
With all due respect to sixjaxMajor, who's a very talented player, there's really quite a story there.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=209881
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The thing is that every kid thinks their mature and self-reliant. Then you get older and realize "holy crap I was so stupid back then." The thing about maturity is that you can't identify someone as mature until you yourself are mature. In fact, adults often seem immature to kids, because they aren't mentally equipped to understand the adult perspective.
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You tell em kid!
When I was 11-13 I used to travel sometimes interstate playing MtG tournaments and 40 year olds would rage at me when they lost tehe.
If someone back then told me I couldn't play I would have been pretty devastated.
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I think this posting has less to do with the SC2 community and more to do with legalities. It's great you are a master's player and commited to playing, but you must realize that at 13 you can't possibly sign anything yourself or be depended on since parents would have to be present all of the time. If you were a little bit older you may have realized that it's not the SC2 community, because I'm sure we would all want you to join a team and compete.
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Don't let age fool you. Stupidity, arrogance , and ignorance are traits that can manifest in any age group. You're still young so go out and enjoy your freedom before responsibilities pile up left and right. You'll also be much better in the game at 16+
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13 is pretty young... but you have a ways to go before you are recruited to a serious team. As a long time gamer I suggest you just join a slightly less serious Masters level team on your server. Train hard with them and try to get into GM. If you do you'll get noticed sooner or later and someone will approach you.
It is hard as a young person to try and get credit and get noticed. You strive very hard to be as good and mature as someone older, unfortunately many young folk just lack in maturity to prove themselves against the stigma. I'm sure that your talent and your determination is all you'll need to either do very well in the SC2 community or like many young adults, you'll find other aspirations to follow after this one sours.
Best of luck buddy. I wish you the best!
(I'd practice with you but I'm just a lowly Diamond player. Hehe.)
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On June 26 2011 04:17 v1dom wrote:
As a leader of an eSports team, I can give you a few reasons we don't accept or consider players under 18.
1. Contracts for persons under 18 have to be signed by a parent/guardian, and it's up to the parent/guardian to be responsible for the child. Imagine an underage player breaks their contract, and I literally have to call their mom to discuss legal ramifications of their actions. In my WC3 days, I had to do this once, and it was completely embarrassing for everyone involved, including me.
2. Due to the fact that most persons under 18 are in school, this presents issues with availability and reliability. MLG events, for example, always start at 10am on a Friday morning, when you're sitting in class (outside the summer months). Are your parents going to let you skip school to compete? Can you stay up til 1am for a match against a European team?
3. Children are erratic. Most kids (even ones taking the game seriously) have issues with a wide range of erratic behavoir and unreliability. Adults are (for the most part, but not always) stable, with stable schedules and the time and money to invest in their game without being reliant on anyone but themselves. You can't drive to LAN events (or anywhere). How will you get to the LAN event 3 hours from your house? Is your guardian's dedication to the game as strong as your own?
4. Travel to major events (interstate): Are your parents going to let you fly to MLG and other events alone? Most hotels require a person over 21 to be present in the room. Do you realize that I, your manager, would be legally responsible for you as your "guardian" if not accompanied by a parent? If you got hit by a bus, or lost in the city, or were just a pint sized hellion and went out on the town drinking, I would be legally liable for anything and everything you did. The players on my team are all grown adults - the definition of professionals - and I still reiterate to them that when they room with each other at major events, that I am not responsible for what happens in their room(s).
5. Many major tournaments require that you be 18+ to compete or accept prizes.
These are just a few reasons. I certainly don't "hate on" underage players, but in order for me personally to consider a player under 18, their skill level would have to vastly outweigh the RISKS (and they are), I've outlined above.
You mentioned Pokebunny in your OP. This is an example of a young man who is the "one in a million," with both the talent, professionalism and history to warrant being on a professional team. For every one Pokebunny (and he may be one of a kind outside Korea), there are probably thousands or hundreds of thousands who aren't.
Edit: If you are the second in a million, with top grandmaster talent, a stable attitude (unlikely since you've admitted you've bad mannered in the recent past), parents who are completely understanding and supporting of your hobby, and willing to discuss year-long legal contracts, which will bind their 13 year old son to what amounts essentially to a close-to-full-time job, don't hesitate to e-mail me.
Domino
4Kings
I don't think this post can be stressed enough. Especially for all the kiddies still saying 'But I'm mature for my age and not like everyone else, it's not fair'.
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Like others have said 16/18/21 are all ages of consent in one form or another(such as licenses,legal adult, drinking age) and most organizations protect themselves from any problems by having age restrictions.
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ESports in Korea is much more accepted in the US. The odds of your parents fully supporting this, which includes missing school and other family time, is rather slim, even if they at first seem to support the idea. Not to mention that entering a contract is something taken very seriously (You have to go through all sorts of red tape to have a job while you are underage or when you get your first job, It's both time consuming and sometimes costs a bit of money as well, depending on your job.) Does that mean you cannot help out or participate, of course not! Serving as a practice partner to some pros and making connections right now would be much more beneficial at this stage in your life, allowing you to mature as a player and learning how the "business" side of eSports works.
Don't worry, this scene will still be around when you are 18.
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Yeah, there are legal and practical issues that limit a minor's participation, but the biggest factor that kids need to understand is this:
You don't know anything.
No, stop. You don't know anything. Sure, you're good at StarCraft and you are advanced in school. That's great. You still don't know anything.
I still haven't graduated from college. I've never bought a house. I've never had a real "career" rather than just a job. I've never been fired from that career. I am barely over 1/5 of the way through my life and a good portion of my time being alive has been spent as a booger eating little kid. Shoot, my brain isn't even fully done developing yet and you know what? I am nearly twice your age. I was playing video games before you were even born. Virtually everything you have experienced, I experienced before you were even born and I still have only experienced a tiny fraction of my life.
You just, you need to understand this, man. At 13, you don't know anything. At 16, you still don't know anything. At 18, you are approaching a point in your life where you can begin to learn things, but it is very likely that you will still not know anything for many more years. You may be bright, for a 13 year old. You may be mature, for a 13 year old. Compared to actual adults, you are still uneducated, ignorant, and underdeveloped and most adults are still all of those things.
Honestly, when I was 13, I could see myself making this same thread. Now, I realize how absolutely ridiculous this entire idea is. This sentence right here:
On June 26 2011 04:06 Nagisa. wrote:
If anything 13 is where everyone should be hitting their prime, you have almost unlimited time.
This is a perfect example of what I am talking about. At 13, you are not going to be hitting your prime in anything whatsoever, just based off of time, alone. If you live to be 80 years old, at 13 you still are less than 1/6 of the way through you life. All the time you have spent doing anything, you still have 6 times that to be alive. Now, Boxer is, what, 31 years old? So, let's just use 30. If your "gaming career" can only last until you are thirty (gross assumption), that means you still have 17 years of playing left. You are not even half way there. Moreover, how many years have you even been able seriously play and practice? Two? Three? So, you are on maybe year 3 of a 20 year career and you think this your prime? Come on, man. The fact that you would suggest that is itself evidence that you are wrong, ignorant and immature. Sorry, but you're only 13. Everyone is that way at 13. It isn't your fault, that is just the way it is.
Seriously, at 13 years old, you have hardly been alive long enough to discover all the things of which your own dong is capable and you aren't even old enough to know why that is important. You don't know anything and the sooner you realize that, the better it is for everyone, including yourself. Especially yourself. Well, maybe especially your parents but you are definitely second in line of who gets to benefit because once you recognize that, you can begin to address it.
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On June 26 2011 14:38 barneycast wrote:
Like others have said 16/18/21 are all ages of consent in one form or another(such as licenses,legal adult, drinking age) and most organizations protect themselves from any problems by having age restrictions.
The problem is that they are very arbitrary. Why sixteen? I'm 14 and I'm probably twice as mature as some of the dumbass 18 year olds who play flash games in their free time and call other kids gay at school. Those guys are the immature ones, not me, and I can't drive, but they can. I can't vote, but they can. I don't know what would be better system but it's annoying. Stop age discrimination damnit. I started lurking TL when I was 12. Why? I loved the game, TL was awesome, and I didn't care what people thought of me. Nevertheless, weakminded idiots continued to hound me online when they learned I was twelve. I'm 14 now, but people still say: "Damn, you're pretty young, I don't think you should be on the internet." What?
Let's put it this way: Let's say that I'm hypothetically a child prodigy who's better at everything and smarter than most adults, but because of the arbitrary age limits, I can't do jack shit since I've already passed college. The second I turn sixteen, I can suddenly start doing things though. How stupid is that?
BTW I'm not a child prodigy.
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You can pretty much tell whether a person is going to be a moron by the time he/she's around 13 or 14. If by that age they aren't able to show any sign of maturity or intelligence, you can be pretty sure that's how that person will act for the rest of his/her life.
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Every 13 year old says "i know people older than me (in this case 20) who are much more immature then me" lol so what? like what does that even mean. Your 13 years old hate to break it to you but you ARE immature still youve barely hit puberty. Just because you know some stupid immature 20 year olds doesnt say anything about your maturity level, and the fact that they probably try and stoop down to your level when they are hanging around you just to be "fun" im sure they arent like that when hanging out with their own friends.
Its part of growing up man, you are able to do more things and have more opportunities as you get older.
Just the fact that you say your aspiring for a GSL win when you havent even entered in any tournaments (because you cant) shows alot about your maturity level. Sure its nice to have dreams but you havent even entered an online tournament yet its pretty unrealisitc at this point...
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You guys call yourselves smart and you try to argue this injustice towards you? If you guys were truly smart, you guys would have the logic to justify the age limit.
Hey guess what, shit runs like this for a reason. Age limits are set for the populous and not just you. Yeah it sucks but deal with it.
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Hating on the youth is basically a sport. Ignore trolls, even when they claim to be wiser than you.
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On June 26 2011 13:55 chuigo wrote:
One person in the SC2 community that is a prime example of why children are shunned is sixjax.Major. He's 14 or sommet, he's a complete douche and struggles to show respect to anyone.
On the other hand, he's got a contract. More then one, actually, considering he was in ROOT before sixjax. Idk why other 14 y/o haven't been picked up seeing as that little idiot did.
Hes definitely not 14 either he is between 16 and 18 i know that i just can remember if it was 16 or 18
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[GosI]Terran was 16 during TSL2. hes probably 17
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EPT
