It is highly recommended that your read this entire thread - at least until page 10. If you make uninformed opinions that have been answered by the thread, col management or Destiny, you will be banned.
On June 23 2011 07:24 deadRa wrote: I think this is an great oppurtunity for other teams to try to get ahold of Destiny. I say this because I witnessed the actual improvement he did when he was on ROOT and with the potential he has he's definitely a good trade for any team.
Good luck to Complexity and Destiny!
Yeah, but he did lose first round in the open bracket so he still has a pretty long way to go before he's picked up by even low-level teams on the sole basis of skill. Popularity is another thing entirely though...
On June 23 2011 07:20 Bellygareth wrote: I'm pretty sure nothing Steven wrote on this matter could show Complexity in a bad light. That's not the case the other way round.
And if they agreed earlier on departing it's pretty dicky to invent bullshit reasons for it and communicating it that way. That's dishonest. If Destiny had tried to spread rumors or whatever on Col I would have understood them providing their side in that manner. But not when Destiny did absolutly nothing of that sort.
He acted to his fans as if he were surprised and that this was the first time he heard about this on his stream the other night. Of course, now that is being spinned as trolling. Now hes got a ton of redditors and TLers acting as if Complexity is shitty. It was up to them as a company to at least present their side of the story.
Maybe that backfired a bit, but at least they put what they believed to be the truth out there.
On June 23 2011 06:50 piskooooo wrote: This guy is a cancer to foreign SC2. I'm glad they dumped him.
It seems pretty obvious that he dumped them.. I dont know much about this team, but this is the second public announcement/statement Ive read by the management, and judgeing by the way they've expressed themselves they seem pretty unprofessional. And the fact that the three guys from ROOT that knew they had choices, chose not to join seems kind of
On June 23 2011 07:25 troncook wrote: i am assuming it was a legally binding contract, was destiny worried about being sued afterwards for breaching the contract?
If you read some of the comments on complexity's website and stuff (as well as the comments here) its sort of apparent that complexity understood his viewpoint and really only used the breach contract thing as an excuse to allow him to leave. Also I don't think complexity is the type of team that would sue a player.
i guarantee you sign at least 10 contracts per week without reading them. when you break the plastic seal on a video/computer game, when you click yes i agree to the terms on some pornsite, whenever you update software, so don't act like everyone reads every contract they make. have you paid for anything with a debit or credit card lately? that's a contract and i bet you didn't read the terms for that (hint: it's more complicated then i will pay for these goods/services). do you know where the binding arbitration takes place between you and blizz if you have a lawsuit regarding SC2?
.
EULAs, Terms of Services and other internet things are agreements and not contracts, and are also not as legally binding. + Show Spoiler +
If you don't read every legally binding contract you sign you are being dumb. Sorry. If you have a job that requires you to sign a contract, it is in your best interest to not only read it thoroughly but pay a very cheap consultation fee and have a lawyer check it out. In a legal situation, ignorance is not a defense.
Besides, Destiny said he did read it, so the point is moot.
The second half of Complexity's statement kind of says to me that they are not willing to have someone as polarizing as Destiny on their team. From a business perspective, if he had better results, the backlash from his homophobic and racists remarks could possibly be handwaved.
This is a good parting of ways for both sides of the coin. Complexity doesn't have to constantly excuse one of their players and Destiny can go on and do whatever he calls what he does on his stream.
actually EULA, Terms of Serivce, shrinkwrap terms (or rolling contracts, layered contracts), click wrap terms or click through terms, and browse wrap terms are all just as binding as contracts. please see Register.com, Inc. v. Verio Inc. 356 F.3d 393 (2d Cir. 2004) where it was held that the browse wrap terms contained in the website constitute a contractual obligation concerning the use of the information contained in the website.
i was just trying to make the point that almost no one reads every contract they sign. try it, seriously. the next time you're out and about and asked to sign something take the time to read it, and the next one, and the next one....see how long you last. i dare you to read the contract terms next time you update iTunes. that little "terms & conditions" button at the bottom of so many sign-up pages for websites is a very lonely button.
closer to on topic, does anyone have a copy of a "standard" progamer contract? i'd love to see one.
On June 23 2011 05:46 Enox wrote: wow, destiny just found out about that himself on his stream. he didnt know... like wtf!? how can they announce it before informing him
I can assure you that I have personally spoken with Steven over the past week. I sincerely wanted him to remain on the team but we were given no real option. He refused to participate with the team. Also, it was our full intention on allowing him to speak his mind on his stream but within certain boundaries of professionalism.
I spoke with him personally before this was released and he knew it was coming.
I think he's a good guy but it just didn't work out at this time. I wish him the very best in the future.
Class.
While I think that both sides could have been released slightly better announcements, I feel like everyone involved did a very good job of calmly and politely expressing all their opinions.
On June 23 2011 07:20 Bellygareth wrote: I'm pretty sure nothing Steven wrote on this matter could show Complexity in a bad light. That's not the case the other way round.
And if they agreed earlier on departing it's pretty dicky to invent bullshit reasons for it and communicating it that way. That's dishonest. If Destiny had tried to spread rumors or whatever on Col I would have understood them providing their side in that manner. But not when Destiny did absolutly nothing of that sort.
He acted to his fans as if he were surprised and that this was the first time he heard about this on his stream the other night. Of course, now that is being spinned as trolling. Now hes got a ton of redditors and TLers acting as if Complexity is shitty. It was up to them as a company to at least present their side of the story.
Maybe that backfired a bit, but at least they put what they believed to be the truth out there.
I would be surprised too if I saw that reasoning. And it's in no way presenting Col in a bad way. It's not his fault that complexity wrote their article the way they did. And it's not Destiny's fault that people don't like the way they wrote it.
It was up to them to present the fact professionaly and in an unbiased way, but they chose to present false excuses/reasons, especially when they had agreed on parting ways before. It's pretty sad...
Edit: besides, is there not a probation phase for any employment contract in the US? Don't you guys have at least 1 month to decide not to stay in a company?
Destiny as a player hasn't achieved anything noteworthy. As a personality though, I think he brings a lot to the table for any team considering picking him up.
On June 23 2011 07:25 hmunkey wrote: Yeah, but he did lose first round in the open bracket so he still has a pretty long way to go before he's picked up by even low-level teams on the sole basis of skill. Popularity is another thing entirely though...
You must realise that every professional has their ups and downs, it was probably just a bad day.
If I was an outspoken gentleman like Destiny, I doubt I'd trade my ability to say what I wanted just for the chance to be on a bigger team. I'd say I hope he gets picked up by another team, but I don't think he's quite at that level, and I don't think anyone but Sixjax would take him + his attitude anyway. (I don't mean "attitude" in a negative light at all.)
On June 23 2011 05:57 KimJongChill wrote: I saw this kind of thing happening, what with Destiny's non-pc language. The only reason this is a problem is because he is well known, and how highly publicized his language became these past few months. I'm sure plenty of other progamers spew racist, sexist, or homophobic insults, but it's not widely discussed enough for people to care. I suppose Idra is an exception simply because of his playing caliber.
Fortunately, Destiny has relatively improved, meaning that he is slowly performing better compared to the progress of his peers. I hope he takes this chance to seriously engage in practice, rather than Sotis all day :b
Good luck.
Well IdrA doesn't spew racist, sexist, or homophobic insults . . . he just says things to individual people like calling them fucking skilless newbies or doesn't gg.
Seems like you have no idea what you're talking about.
It seems you don't know what you are talking about.
He has extremely toned down since joining EG and I don't think he has said anything really bad since the start of 2011.
Sure sure brah. Note that's EGIdrA.
I would recommend you stop using the word brah and read something before you respond to it.
"toned down" does not mean he has stopped completely idra will always be that way
"Anything really bad since start of 2011" , that game is from november 2010.
"He has extremely toned down since joining EG"
Continues using "faggot" despite being on EG
Apparently calling someone "faggot" is being toned down
It's quite obvious you just don't like Idra. So I'll just put it this way; The reason why Idra can get away with that is because he posts great tournament results. Destiny does not. Idra brings in lots of attention to EG, whether it's good or not, more people will end up liking Idra because he's a good player, which in turn is great for his team. If Destiny starts winning tournaments and people see him as a good player, then teams will look to grab him even with the mouth he has. Until then, this is what happens.
What??? I said nothing about "Idra getting away with it". I was just pointing out that Idra uses the word "faggot", same as Destiny.
Yes, and I was pointing out that the reason why this is not a problem for EG is because Idra brings them a constant stream of fans, whereas Destiny.... well we all know the facts, so you fill in the blank. Don't take the defensive while reading this post, and you might actually get the point of it this time.
On June 23 2011 06:37 n0ise wrote: I have no idea what Destiny is generally talking about, how he behaves, or what the incident at hand was.
I do, however, have a newfound admiration for Complexity. Finally, an organisation that doesn't take and endorse shit from anyone, just for a bit of extra e-fame. I hope others can take example.
/respect
Do you seriously think Complexity had no idea how Destiny operated before offering him a contract? No organization worth its salt operates that way.
i guarantee you sign at least 10 contracts per week without reading them. when you break the plastic seal on a video/computer game, when you click yes i agree to the terms on some pornsite, whenever you update software, so don't act like everyone reads every contract they make. have you paid for anything with a debit or credit card lately? that's a contract and i bet you didn't read the terms for that (hint: it's more complicated then i will pay for these goods/services). do you know where the binding arbitration takes place between you and blizz if you have a lawsuit regarding SC2?
.
EULAs, Terms of Services and other internet things are agreements and not contracts, and are also not as legally binding. + Show Spoiler +
If you don't read every legally binding contract you sign you are being dumb. Sorry. If you have a job that requires you to sign a contract, it is in your best interest to not only read it thoroughly but pay a very cheap consultation fee and have a lawyer check it out. In a legal situation, ignorance is not a defense.
Besides, Destiny said he did read it, so the point is moot.
The second half of Complexity's statement kind of says to me that they are not willing to have someone as polarizing as Destiny on their team. From a business perspective, if he had better results, the backlash from his homophobic and racists remarks could possibly be handwaved.
This is a good parting of ways for both sides of the coin. Complexity doesn't have to constantly excuse one of their players and Destiny can go on and do whatever he calls what he does on his stream.
actually EULA, Terms of Serivce, shrinkwrap terms (or rolling contracts, layered contracts), click wrap terms or click through terms, and browse wrap terms are all just as binding as contracts. please see Register.com, Inc. v. Verio Inc. 356 F.3d 393 (2d Cir. 2004) where it was held that the browse wrap terms contained in the website constitute a contractual obligation concerning the use of the information contained in the website.
i was just trying to make the point that almost no one reads every contract they sign. try it, seriously. the next time you're out and about and asked to sign something take the time to read it, and the next one, and the next one....see how long you last. i dare you to read the contract terms next time you update iTunes. that little "terms & conditions" button at the bottom of so many sign-up pages for websites is a very lonely button.
closer to on topic, does anyone have a copy of a "standard" progamer contract? i'd love to see one.
I personally don't just put my name to things I haven't read. It seems like a pretty bad idea.
On June 23 2011 05:42 iNcontroL wrote: this translates to me as a refusal to do normal team stuff like blog, post on site etc.. am I wrong?
In any regard I like destiny >_< wish he'd value community/teams more though.. he could grow as a player!
Huh. A very insightful post by iNcontroL. Good luck to Destiny!
You should have kept reading at least to the point where Incontrol himself retract his previous statement. Don't worry, it's less than what the warning on the top of the thread tells you to read.
On June 23 2011 05:57 KimJongChill wrote: I saw this kind of thing happening, what with Destiny's non-pc language. The only reason this is a problem is because he is well known, and how highly publicized his language became these past few months. I'm sure plenty of other progamers spew racist, sexist, or homophobic insults, but it's not widely discussed enough for people to care. I suppose Idra is an exception simply because of his playing caliber.
Fortunately, Destiny has relatively improved, meaning that he is slowly performing better compared to the progress of his peers. I hope he takes this chance to seriously engage in practice, rather than Sotis all day :b
Good luck.
Well IdrA doesn't spew racist, sexist, or homophobic insults . . . he just says things to individual people like calling them fucking skilless newbies or doesn't gg.
I would recommend you stop using the word brah and read something before you respond to it.
"toned down" does not mean he has stopped completely idra will always be that way
"Anything really bad since start of 2011" , that game is from november 2010.
"He has extremely toned down since joining EG"
Continues using "faggot" despite being on EG
Apparently calling someone "faggot" is being toned down
It's quite obvious you just don't like Idra. So I'll just put it this way; The reason why Idra can get away with that is because he posts great tournament results. Destiny does not. Idra brings in lots of attention to EG, whether it's good or not, more people will end up liking Idra because he's a good player, which in turn is great for his team. If Destiny starts winning tournaments and people see him as a good player, then teams will look to grab him even with the mouth he has. Until then, this is what happens.
What??? I said nothing about "Idra getting away with it". I was just pointing out that Idra uses the word "faggot", same as Destiny.
Yes, and I was pointing out that the reason why this is not a problem for EG is because Idra brings them a constant stream of fans, whereas Destiny.... well we all know the facts, so you fill in the blank. Don't take the defensive while reading this post, and you might actually get the point of it this time.
Did I say Destiny was causing a problem for Root/coL? Not sure what you think I'm wrong about lol.
EPT
