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On June 15 2011 05:23 Karakaxe wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 05:21 Blasphemi wrote:On June 15 2011 05:14 mcc wrote:On June 15 2011 04:47 Blasphemi wrote:On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote:Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too  ? Keep trying Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins. Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level. And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference? Ill start by saying that Koreans are better, I just do not think that the difference is like terribly high. I think they are mostly more consistent, foreigners just show some great games a then some terrible ones(for that level of play) and in the tournament that plays a big role. Now for your argument. In Copenhagen games, recently-code-S player TheWind gets beaten quite early. Hmm, might that mean that code S is (now it is much better, but I think the observation still holds) not so far from the foreigner level and has rather big difference between the best and worst players ? Whatever people say MC vs Thorzain was played without latency and yet he lost Bo7 (I think, maybe Bo5). Also TOP is not exactly a bad player, top4 in GSL ST and playing pretty well in every GSL. So yep, top Koreans are better, but code S is definitely not some untouchable group of players that no foreigner can touch. It is not like there are no foreigners in code S and HuK definitely did not yet show that he can be considered one the very top foreigners. Back then TOP definitely wasn't at that level. The Thorzain/MC game was a best of 5. Another thing rather mentioned is that the winning game for Thorzain involved a strategy so overpowered Blizzard nerfed it very soon after, it's pretty rare for Blizzard to do that so fast. You have an answer for everything don't you :D:D
Thorzain deserved his win, he did great. I just wouldn't use one game as evidence when there's about 100 games to the contrary.
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On June 15 2011 05:23 namedplayer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 05:14 mcc wrote:On June 15 2011 04:47 Blasphemi wrote:On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote:Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins. Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level. And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference? Ill start by saying that Koreans are better, I just do not think that the difference is like terribly high. I think they are mostly more consistent, foreigners just show some great games a then some terrible ones(for that level of play) and in the tournament that plays a big role. Now for your argument. In Copenhagen games, recently-code-S player TheWind gets beaten quite early. Hmm, might that mean that code S is (now it is much better, but I think the observation still holds) not so far from the foreigner level and has rather big difference between the best and worst players ? Whatever people say MC vs Thorzain was played without latency and yet he lost Bo7 (I think, maybe Bo5). Also TOP is not exactly a bad player, top4 in GSL ST and playing pretty well in every GSL. So yep, top Koreans are better, but code S is definitely not some untouchable group of players that no foreigner can touch. It is not like there are no foreigners in code S and HuK definitely did not yet show that he can be considered one the very top foreigners. It's not like foreigners can touch. more like SC2 is still volatile. as I said, MMA and MKP got 0-2ed by no name Koreans yesterday. (Sage beat MMA, JYP beat MKP) btw, is there any no-name EU players who can 2-0 MKP,MMA in EU?
If someone could give an example he wouldn't be a noname. It's a stupid question.
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On June 15 2011 05:14 mcc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 04:47 Blasphemi wrote:On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote:Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins. Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level. And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference? Ill start by saying that Koreans are better, I just do not think that the difference is like terribly high. I think they are mostly more consistent, foreigners just show some great games a then some terrible ones(for that level of play) and in the tournament that plays a big role. Now for your argument. In Copenhagen games, recently-code-S player TheWind gets beaten quite early. Hmm, might that mean that code S is (now it is much better, but I think the observation still holds) not so far from the foreigner level and has rather big difference between the best and worst players ? Whatever people say MC vs Thorzain was played without latency and yet he lost Bo7 (I think, maybe Bo5). Also TOP is not exactly a bad player, top4 in GSL ST and playing pretty well in every GSL. So yep, top Koreans are better, but code S is definitely not some untouchable group of players that no foreigner can touch. It is not like there are no foreigners in code S and HuK definitely did not yet show that he can be considered one the very top foreigners.
top's defeat in DH was almost 7 months ago, and he attended because he couldn't even qualify for GSL open 3. inca is the definition of a one matchup wonder, and he was eliminated by top in DH. as for thewind, the up/down system helps to retain bad players, which is how he's managed to stay code S for so long yet never accomplish anything other than instantly losing in the group stages and barely hanging on through up/down.
huk hasn't even played a single foreigner in a low latency environment since he left, there's no basis to compare him to foreigners other than his code a/s accomplishments.
furthermore, no one's arguing that foreigners can't beat koreans even some of the time, just that it's extremely unlikely they'll ever win a tournament with a couple of good koreans in attendance.
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Why would Nada not know that he had finals the week before DreamHack? No one is asking that but everyone is ready to get mad about visa issues. It seems like school finals is something set in stone at the beginning of the term. Why would school cause the problem? Either something else came up or Nada doesn't respect the Dreamhack organizers. I wish we could find out what is really going on.
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On June 15 2011 05:21 sitromit wrote:That article says he'll be replacing Fruitdealer??? Isn't it Nada who isn't going?
My guess would be that Fruitdealer isn't going either - I wouldn't put my money on it though. Just the information I was given was that XlorD is replacing FruitDealer. If that's not the case I will edit the news immediately.
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On June 15 2011 05:23 namedplayer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 05:14 mcc wrote:On June 15 2011 04:47 Blasphemi wrote:On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote:Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins. Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level. And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference? Ill start by saying that Koreans are better, I just do not think that the difference is like terribly high. I think they are mostly more consistent, foreigners just show some great games a then some terrible ones(for that level of play) and in the tournament that plays a big role. Now for your argument. In Copenhagen games, recently-code-S player TheWind gets beaten quite early. Hmm, might that mean that code S is (now it is much better, but I think the observation still holds) not so far from the foreigner level and has rather big difference between the best and worst players ? Whatever people say MC vs Thorzain was played without latency and yet he lost Bo7 (I think, maybe Bo5). Also TOP is not exactly a bad player, top4 in GSL ST and playing pretty well in every GSL. So yep, top Koreans are better, but code S is definitely not some untouchable group of players that no foreigner can touch. It is not like there are no foreigners in code S and HuK definitely did not yet show that he can be considered one the very top foreigners. It's not like foreigners can touch. more like SC2 is still volatile. as I said, MMA and MKP got 0-2ed by no name Koreans yesterday. (Sage beat MMA, JYP beat MKP) btw, is there any no-name EU players who can 2-0 MKP,MMA in EU?
What is no-name ?
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Cant we just wait til after DH to decide this argument? <3 <3 <3 <<3
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Aw no Nada & MKP, so sad
Nice fanboy flamefest in this thread btw, senseless discusions on the internets are for true heroes :>
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On June 15 2011 05:25 Blasphemi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 05:23 Karakaxe wrote:On June 15 2011 05:21 Blasphemi wrote:On June 15 2011 05:14 mcc wrote:On June 15 2011 04:47 Blasphemi wrote:On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote:Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins. Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level. And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference? Ill start by saying that Koreans are better, I just do not think that the difference is like terribly high. I think they are mostly more consistent, foreigners just show some great games a then some terrible ones(for that level of play) and in the tournament that plays a big role. Now for your argument. In Copenhagen games, recently-code-S player TheWind gets beaten quite early. Hmm, might that mean that code S is (now it is much better, but I think the observation still holds) not so far from the foreigner level and has rather big difference between the best and worst players ? Whatever people say MC vs Thorzain was played without latency and yet he lost Bo7 (I think, maybe Bo5). Also TOP is not exactly a bad player, top4 in GSL ST and playing pretty well in every GSL. So yep, top Koreans are better, but code S is definitely not some untouchable group of players that no foreigner can touch. It is not like there are no foreigners in code S and HuK definitely did not yet show that he can be considered one the very top foreigners. Back then TOP definitely wasn't at that level. The Thorzain/MC game was a best of 5. Another thing rather mentioned is that the winning game for Thorzain involved a strategy so overpowered Blizzard nerfed it very soon after, it's pretty rare for Blizzard to do that so fast. You have an answer for everything don't you :D:D Thorzain deserved his win, he did great. I just wouldn't use one game as evidence when there's about 100 games to the contrary.
Contrary to what ? You would be right if I was saying that Koreans are not better, but I am saying something completely different and your reply did not really address that.
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On June 15 2011 05:25 Blasphemi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 05:23 Karakaxe wrote:On June 15 2011 05:21 Blasphemi wrote:On June 15 2011 05:14 mcc wrote:On June 15 2011 04:47 Blasphemi wrote:On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote:Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins. Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level. And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference? Ill start by saying that Koreans are better, I just do not think that the difference is like terribly high. I think they are mostly more consistent, foreigners just show some great games a then some terrible ones(for that level of play) and in the tournament that plays a big role. Now for your argument. In Copenhagen games, recently-code-S player TheWind gets beaten quite early. Hmm, might that mean that code S is (now it is much better, but I think the observation still holds) not so far from the foreigner level and has rather big difference between the best and worst players ? Whatever people say MC vs Thorzain was played without latency and yet he lost Bo7 (I think, maybe Bo5). Also TOP is not exactly a bad player, top4 in GSL ST and playing pretty well in every GSL. So yep, top Koreans are better, but code S is definitely not some untouchable group of players that no foreigner can touch. It is not like there are no foreigners in code S and HuK definitely did not yet show that he can be considered one the very top foreigners. Back then TOP definitely wasn't at that level. The Thorzain/MC game was a best of 5. Another thing rather mentioned is that the winning game for Thorzain involved a strategy so overpowered Blizzard nerfed it very soon after, it's pretty rare for Blizzard to do that so fast. You have an answer for everything don't you :D:D Thorzain deserved his win, he did great. I just wouldn't use one game as evidence when there's about 100 games to the contrary.
We don't need 50 vs 50 games won by each side. No one is trying to prove that the best foreigners are on equal ground with the best Koreans. A Korean will probably win DH but I still think the foreigners can compete. If one of the best foreigners has a good day and a good bracket and has prepared well, he can easily take games from the best Koreans and win the tournament. If the tournament is replayed 10 times, Koreans will probably win a majority of those tournaments but foreigners will win a few of them and place top 3 in most of them.
What happened in TSL3 can happen at DH even though it is a Lan event.
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Why would Nada not know that he had finals the week before DreamHack? No one is asking that but everyone is ready to get mad about visa issues. It seems like school finals is something set in stone at the beginning of the term. Why would school cause the problem? Either something else came up or Nada doesn't respect the Dreamhack organizers. I wish we could find out what is really going on.
In uni normally you have 2 to 3 changes of doing a subject. If you fail on 1 you can try again later, maybe he thought he could pass and he didn't.
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3030 Posts
Damn was looking forward to seeing Nada play
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On June 15 2011 05:25 rauk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 05:14 mcc wrote:On June 15 2011 04:47 Blasphemi wrote:On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote:Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins. Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level. And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference? Ill start by saying that Koreans are better, I just do not think that the difference is like terribly high. I think they are mostly more consistent, foreigners just show some great games a then some terrible ones(for that level of play) and in the tournament that plays a big role. Now for your argument. In Copenhagen games, recently-code-S player TheWind gets beaten quite early. Hmm, might that mean that code S is (now it is much better, but I think the observation still holds) not so far from the foreigner level and has rather big difference between the best and worst players ? Whatever people say MC vs Thorzain was played without latency and yet he lost Bo7 (I think, maybe Bo5). Also TOP is not exactly a bad player, top4 in GSL ST and playing pretty well in every GSL. So yep, top Koreans are better, but code S is definitely not some untouchable group of players that no foreigner can touch. It is not like there are no foreigners in code S and HuK definitely did not yet show that he can be considered one the very top foreigners. top's defeat in DH was almost 7 months ago, and he attended because he couldn't even qualify for GSL open 3. inca is the definition of a one matchup wonder, and he was eliminated by top in DH. as for thewind, the up/down system helps to retain bad players, which is how he's managed to stay code S for so long yet never accomplish anything other than instantly losing in the group stages and barely hanging on through up/down. huk hasn't even played a single foreigner in a low latency environment since he left, there's no basis to compare him to foreigners other than his code a/s accomplishments. furthermore, no one's arguing that foreigners can't beat koreans even some of the time, just that it's extremely unlikely they'll ever win a tournament with a couple of good koreans in attendance.
Just because everyone is nitpicking, in DH winter Tyler beat Inca in PvP.
As for HuK, did you forgot Assembly and MLG Dallas ?
Also what at least I am arguing is that there is quite a lot of foreigners that are easily code A material, and getting to code S is kind of a matter of luck if you are not MVP or Bomber, so given reasonable number of top foreigners in code A there would be top foreigners in code S , some even for many seasons.
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On June 15 2011 05:26 mcc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 05:23 namedplayer wrote:On June 15 2011 05:14 mcc wrote:On June 15 2011 04:47 Blasphemi wrote:On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote:Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins. Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level. And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference? Ill start by saying that Koreans are better, I just do not think that the difference is like terribly high. I think they are mostly more consistent, foreigners just show some great games a then some terrible ones(for that level of play) and in the tournament that plays a big role. Now for your argument. In Copenhagen games, recently-code-S player TheWind gets beaten quite early. Hmm, might that mean that code S is (now it is much better, but I think the observation still holds) not so far from the foreigner level and has rather big difference between the best and worst players ? Whatever people say MC vs Thorzain was played without latency and yet he lost Bo7 (I think, maybe Bo5). Also TOP is not exactly a bad player, top4 in GSL ST and playing pretty well in every GSL. So yep, top Koreans are better, but code S is definitely not some untouchable group of players that no foreigner can touch. It is not like there are no foreigners in code S and HuK definitely did not yet show that he can be considered one the very top foreigners. It's not like foreigners can touch. more like SC2 is still volatile. as I said, MMA and MKP got 0-2ed by no name Koreans yesterday. (Sage beat MMA, JYP beat MKP) btw, is there any no-name EU players who can 2-0 MKP,MMA in EU? What is no-name ?
someone who... has no achievement?  you prolly never heard of JYP,Sage before right? even no name can beat MKP,MMA.
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On June 15 2011 05:34 namedplayer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 05:26 mcc wrote:On June 15 2011 05:23 namedplayer wrote:On June 15 2011 05:14 mcc wrote:On June 15 2011 04:47 Blasphemi wrote:On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote:Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins. Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level. And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference? Ill start by saying that Koreans are better, I just do not think that the difference is like terribly high. I think they are mostly more consistent, foreigners just show some great games a then some terrible ones(for that level of play) and in the tournament that plays a big role. Now for your argument. In Copenhagen games, recently-code-S player TheWind gets beaten quite early. Hmm, might that mean that code S is (now it is much better, but I think the observation still holds) not so far from the foreigner level and has rather big difference between the best and worst players ? Whatever people say MC vs Thorzain was played without latency and yet he lost Bo7 (I think, maybe Bo5). Also TOP is not exactly a bad player, top4 in GSL ST and playing pretty well in every GSL. So yep, top Koreans are better, but code S is definitely not some untouchable group of players that no foreigner can touch. It is not like there are no foreigners in code S and HuK definitely did not yet show that he can be considered one the very top foreigners. It's not like foreigners can touch. more like SC2 is still volatile. as I said, MMA and MKP got 0-2ed by no name Koreans yesterday. (Sage beat MMA, JYP beat MKP) btw, is there any no-name EU players who can 2-0 MKP,MMA in EU? What is no-name ? someone who... has no achievement? you prolly never heard of JYP,Sage before right? even no name can beat MKP,MMA.
That's a pretty dumb statement, someone not being known doesn't mean anything. Many people didn't know DRG before he came crashing into GSTL. Same with MMA, many people don't know Nerchio and he's been dominating everyone in EU, 3-0ing people like Thorzain who also noone knew before his TSL cinderella story.
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On June 15 2011 05:36 ChickenLips wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 05:34 namedplayer wrote:On June 15 2011 05:26 mcc wrote:On June 15 2011 05:23 namedplayer wrote:On June 15 2011 05:14 mcc wrote:On June 15 2011 04:47 Blasphemi wrote:On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote:Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins. Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level. And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference? Ill start by saying that Koreans are better, I just do not think that the difference is like terribly high. I think they are mostly more consistent, foreigners just show some great games a then some terrible ones(for that level of play) and in the tournament that plays a big role. Now for your argument. In Copenhagen games, recently-code-S player TheWind gets beaten quite early. Hmm, might that mean that code S is (now it is much better, but I think the observation still holds) not so far from the foreigner level and has rather big difference between the best and worst players ? Whatever people say MC vs Thorzain was played without latency and yet he lost Bo7 (I think, maybe Bo5). Also TOP is not exactly a bad player, top4 in GSL ST and playing pretty well in every GSL. So yep, top Koreans are better, but code S is definitely not some untouchable group of players that no foreigner can touch. It is not like there are no foreigners in code S and HuK definitely did not yet show that he can be considered one the very top foreigners. It's not like foreigners can touch. more like SC2 is still volatile. as I said, MMA and MKP got 0-2ed by no name Koreans yesterday. (Sage beat MMA, JYP beat MKP) btw, is there any no-name EU players who can 2-0 MKP,MMA in EU? What is no-name ? someone who... has no achievement? you prolly never heard of JYP,Sage before right? even no name can beat MKP,MMA. That's a pretty dumb statement, someone not being known doesn't mean anything. Many people didn't know DRG before he came crashing into GSTL. Same with MMA, many people don't know Nerchio and he's been dominating everyone in EU, 3-0ing people like Thorzain who also noone knew before his TSL cinderella story.
so.. Nericho had no achievement before he beat Thorzain?
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On June 15 2011 05:39 namedplayer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 05:36 ChickenLips wrote:On June 15 2011 05:34 namedplayer wrote:On June 15 2011 05:26 mcc wrote:On June 15 2011 05:23 namedplayer wrote:On June 15 2011 05:14 mcc wrote:On June 15 2011 04:47 Blasphemi wrote:On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote:Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins. Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level. And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference? Ill start by saying that Koreans are better, I just do not think that the difference is like terribly high. I think they are mostly more consistent, foreigners just show some great games a then some terrible ones(for that level of play) and in the tournament that plays a big role. Now for your argument. In Copenhagen games, recently-code-S player TheWind gets beaten quite early. Hmm, might that mean that code S is (now it is much better, but I think the observation still holds) not so far from the foreigner level and has rather big difference between the best and worst players ? Whatever people say MC vs Thorzain was played without latency and yet he lost Bo7 (I think, maybe Bo5). Also TOP is not exactly a bad player, top4 in GSL ST and playing pretty well in every GSL. So yep, top Koreans are better, but code S is definitely not some untouchable group of players that no foreigner can touch. It is not like there are no foreigners in code S and HuK definitely did not yet show that he can be considered one the very top foreigners. It's not like foreigners can touch. more like SC2 is still volatile. as I said, MMA and MKP got 0-2ed by no name Koreans yesterday. (Sage beat MMA, JYP beat MKP) btw, is there any no-name EU players who can 2-0 MKP,MMA in EU? What is no-name ? someone who... has no achievement? you prolly never heard of JYP,Sage before right? even no name can beat MKP,MMA. That's a pretty dumb statement, someone not being known doesn't mean anything. Many people didn't know DRG before he came crashing into GSTL. Same with MMA, many people don't know Nerchio and he's been dominating everyone in EU, 3-0ing people like Thorzain who also noone knew before his TSL cinderella story. so.. Nericho had no achievement before he beat Thorzain?
he actualy beat him twice
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players/1771_Nerchio
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On June 15 2011 05:34 mcc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 05:25 rauk wrote:On June 15 2011 05:14 mcc wrote:On June 15 2011 04:47 Blasphemi wrote:On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote:Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins. Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level. And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference? Ill start by saying that Koreans are better, I just do not think that the difference is like terribly high. I think they are mostly more consistent, foreigners just show some great games a then some terrible ones(for that level of play) and in the tournament that plays a big role. Now for your argument. In Copenhagen games, recently-code-S player TheWind gets beaten quite early. Hmm, might that mean that code S is (now it is much better, but I think the observation still holds) not so far from the foreigner level and has rather big difference between the best and worst players ? Whatever people say MC vs Thorzain was played without latency and yet he lost Bo7 (I think, maybe Bo5). Also TOP is not exactly a bad player, top4 in GSL ST and playing pretty well in every GSL. So yep, top Koreans are better, but code S is definitely not some untouchable group of players that no foreigner can touch. It is not like there are no foreigners in code S and HuK definitely did not yet show that he can be considered one the very top foreigners. top's defeat in DH was almost 7 months ago, and he attended because he couldn't even qualify for GSL open 3. inca is the definition of a one matchup wonder, and he was eliminated by top in DH. as for thewind, the up/down system helps to retain bad players, which is how he's managed to stay code S for so long yet never accomplish anything other than instantly losing in the group stages and barely hanging on through up/down. huk hasn't even played a single foreigner in a low latency environment since he left, there's no basis to compare him to foreigners other than his code a/s accomplishments. furthermore, no one's arguing that foreigners can't beat koreans even some of the time, just that it's extremely unlikely they'll ever win a tournament with a couple of good koreans in attendance. Just because everyone is nitpicking, in DH winter Tyler beat Inca in PvP. As for HuK, did you forgot Assembly and MLG Dallas ? Also what at least I am arguing is that there is quite a lot of foreigners that are easily code A material, and getting to code S is kind of a matter of luck if you are not MVP or Bomber, so given reasonable number of top foreigners in code A there would be top foreigners in code S , some even for many seasons.
All I have to say is... every single code-b player is on top foreigner level. They are all able to beat MKP,MMA,Nestea,Bomber.
It's not like top foreigners are so great. SC2 is still volatile and there are too many same level players in the world except few.
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On June 15 2011 05:39 namedplayer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 05:36 ChickenLips wrote:On June 15 2011 05:34 namedplayer wrote:On June 15 2011 05:26 mcc wrote:On June 15 2011 05:23 namedplayer wrote:On June 15 2011 05:14 mcc wrote:On June 15 2011 04:47 Blasphemi wrote:On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote:Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins. Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level. And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference? Ill start by saying that Koreans are better, I just do not think that the difference is like terribly high. I think they are mostly more consistent, foreigners just show some great games a then some terrible ones(for that level of play) and in the tournament that plays a big role. Now for your argument. In Copenhagen games, recently-code-S player TheWind gets beaten quite early. Hmm, might that mean that code S is (now it is much better, but I think the observation still holds) not so far from the foreigner level and has rather big difference between the best and worst players ? Whatever people say MC vs Thorzain was played without latency and yet he lost Bo7 (I think, maybe Bo5). Also TOP is not exactly a bad player, top4 in GSL ST and playing pretty well in every GSL. So yep, top Koreans are better, but code S is definitely not some untouchable group of players that no foreigner can touch. It is not like there are no foreigners in code S and HuK definitely did not yet show that he can be considered one the very top foreigners. It's not like foreigners can touch. more like SC2 is still volatile. as I said, MMA and MKP got 0-2ed by no name Koreans yesterday. (Sage beat MMA, JYP beat MKP) btw, is there any no-name EU players who can 2-0 MKP,MMA in EU? What is no-name ? someone who... has no achievement? you prolly never heard of JYP,Sage before right? even no name can beat MKP,MMA. That's a pretty dumb statement, someone not being known doesn't mean anything. Many people didn't know DRG before he came crashing into GSTL. Same with MMA, many people don't know Nerchio and he's been dominating everyone in EU, 3-0ing people like Thorzain who also noone knew before his TSL cinderella story. so.. Nericho had no achievement before he beat Thorzain?
cool counter-argument bro, post again when you have one.
Thorzain to NA players and KR players (many of (MC, MMA, Spunky) considering him to be on KR level) was infinitely more known than Nerchio.
someone who isn't known taking someone out who is doesn't mean jackshit
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EPT
