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On June 15 2011 05:34 namedplayer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 05:26 mcc wrote:On June 15 2011 05:23 namedplayer wrote:On June 15 2011 05:14 mcc wrote:On June 15 2011 04:47 Blasphemi wrote:On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote:Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too  ? Keep trying Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins. Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level. And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference? Ill start by saying that Koreans are better, I just do not think that the difference is like terribly high. I think they are mostly more consistent, foreigners just show some great games a then some terrible ones(for that level of play) and in the tournament that plays a big role. Now for your argument. In Copenhagen games, recently-code-S player TheWind gets beaten quite early. Hmm, might that mean that code S is (now it is much better, but I think the observation still holds) not so far from the foreigner level and has rather big difference between the best and worst players ? Whatever people say MC vs Thorzain was played without latency and yet he lost Bo7 (I think, maybe Bo5). Also TOP is not exactly a bad player, top4 in GSL ST and playing pretty well in every GSL. So yep, top Koreans are better, but code S is definitely not some untouchable group of players that no foreigner can touch. It is not like there are no foreigners in code S and HuK definitely did not yet show that he can be considered one the very top foreigners. It's not like foreigners can touch. more like SC2 is still volatile. as I said, MMA and MKP got 0-2ed by no name Koreans yesterday. (Sage beat MMA, JYP beat MKP) btw, is there any no-name EU players who can 2-0 MKP,MMA in EU? What is no-name ? someone who... has no achievement?  you prolly never heard of JYP,Sage before right? even no name can beat MKP,MMA.
I heard about Sage before, but the point is, if he has no achievements how can I know him ? This request is therefore stupid.
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Some people think that Koreans are way ahead of the rest of the world.
Some people think Koreans are not that far ahead.
Some people think that it's very even.
That's all there is to this "discussion" about Korea vs World. Just accept that people have different views on competitive SC2.
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Yay... We get the same people who went to MLG, except no MMA or Losira...
On June 15 2011 05:56 Karakaxe wrote:
Some people think that Koreans are way ahead of the rest of the world.
Some people think Koreans are not that far ahead.
Some people think that it's very even.
That's all there is to this "discussion" about Korea vs World. Just accept that people have different views on competitive SC2.
And that we all agree we Foreigners arn't the best lol. At our peak we're even, which is very sad.
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FD won't be going?
oh, plane tickets are not provided that's why. fair enough.
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Too bad TLO won't join :/
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On June 15 2011 05:56 Karakaxe wrote:
Some people think that Koreans are way ahead of the rest of the world.
Some people think Koreans are not that far ahead.
Some people think that it's very even.
That's all there is to this "discussion" about Korea vs World. Just accept that people have different views on competitive SC2.
It's not a matter of opinion, you can clearly make an objective statement regarding how foreigners compare to Koreans based on LAN results and the gist of that statement should be obvious to everyone.
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On June 15 2011 05:56 Zooper31 wrote:Yay... We get the same people who went to MLG, except no MMA or Losira... Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 05:56 Karakaxe wrote:
Some people think that Koreans are way ahead of the rest of the world.
Some people think Koreans are not that far ahead.
Some people think that it's very even.
That's all there is to this "discussion" about Korea vs World. Just accept that people have different views on competitive SC2. And that we all agree we Foreigners arn't the best lol. At our peak we're even, which is very sad.
why in the world is it sad? koreans work harder, hence they are better. why is that so difficult for you to understand and accept. man i hate this lazy culture i live in, i wish i was born in korea where striving for excellence is the way to go.
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I really hope the reason some of them aren't coming isn't because they are afraid (not of competition but leaving Korea).
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On June 15 2011 05:44 ChickenLips wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 05:39 namedplayer wrote:On June 15 2011 05:36 ChickenLips wrote:On June 15 2011 05:34 namedplayer wrote:On June 15 2011 05:26 mcc wrote:On June 15 2011 05:23 namedplayer wrote:On June 15 2011 05:14 mcc wrote:On June 15 2011 04:47 Blasphemi wrote:On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote:Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins. Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level. And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference? Ill start by saying that Koreans are better, I just do not think that the difference is like terribly high. I think they are mostly more consistent, foreigners just show some great games a then some terrible ones(for that level of play) and in the tournament that plays a big role. Now for your argument. In Copenhagen games, recently-code-S player TheWind gets beaten quite early. Hmm, might that mean that code S is (now it is much better, but I think the observation still holds) not so far from the foreigner level and has rather big difference between the best and worst players ? Whatever people say MC vs Thorzain was played without latency and yet he lost Bo7 (I think, maybe Bo5). Also TOP is not exactly a bad player, top4 in GSL ST and playing pretty well in every GSL. So yep, top Koreans are better, but code S is definitely not some untouchable group of players that no foreigner can touch. It is not like there are no foreigners in code S and HuK definitely did not yet show that he can be considered one the very top foreigners. It's not like foreigners can touch. more like SC2 is still volatile. as I said, MMA and MKP got 0-2ed by no name Koreans yesterday. (Sage beat MMA, JYP beat MKP) btw, is there any no-name EU players who can 2-0 MKP,MMA in EU? What is no-name ? someone who... has no achievement? you prolly never heard of JYP,Sage before right? even no name can beat MKP,MMA. That's a pretty dumb statement, someone not being known doesn't mean anything. Many people didn't know DRG before he came crashing into GSTL. Same with MMA, many people don't know Nerchio and he's been dominating everyone in EU, 3-0ing people like Thorzain who also noone knew before his TSL cinderella story. so.. Nericho had no achievement before he beat Thorzain? cool counter-argument bro, post again when you have one. Thorzain to NA players and KR players (many of (MC, MMA, Spunky) considering him to be on KR level) was infinitely more known than Nerchio. someone who isn't known taking someone out who is doesn't mean jackshit
so you think Nericho is noname player right?
but, It doesn't seem like that according to TLPD
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players/1771_Nerchio
now look at Sage's
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/players/1973_Sage
JYP, who beat MKP, is not even in TLPD lol
I wonder how Mcc heard of Sage before...
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On June 15 2011 06:10 namedplayer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 05:44 ChickenLips wrote:On June 15 2011 05:39 namedplayer wrote:On June 15 2011 05:36 ChickenLips wrote:On June 15 2011 05:34 namedplayer wrote:On June 15 2011 05:26 mcc wrote:On June 15 2011 05:23 namedplayer wrote:On June 15 2011 05:14 mcc wrote:On June 15 2011 04:47 Blasphemi wrote:On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote:Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins. Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level. And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference? Ill start by saying that Koreans are better, I just do not think that the difference is like terribly high. I think they are mostly more consistent, foreigners just show some great games a then some terrible ones(for that level of play) and in the tournament that plays a big role. Now for your argument. In Copenhagen games, recently-code-S player TheWind gets beaten quite early. Hmm, might that mean that code S is (now it is much better, but I think the observation still holds) not so far from the foreigner level and has rather big difference between the best and worst players ? Whatever people say MC vs Thorzain was played without latency and yet he lost Bo7 (I think, maybe Bo5). Also TOP is not exactly a bad player, top4 in GSL ST and playing pretty well in every GSL. So yep, top Koreans are better, but code S is definitely not some untouchable group of players that no foreigner can touch. It is not like there are no foreigners in code S and HuK definitely did not yet show that he can be considered one the very top foreigners. It's not like foreigners can touch. more like SC2 is still volatile. as I said, MMA and MKP got 0-2ed by no name Koreans yesterday. (Sage beat MMA, JYP beat MKP) btw, is there any no-name EU players who can 2-0 MKP,MMA in EU? What is no-name ? someone who... has no achievement? you prolly never heard of JYP,Sage before right? even no name can beat MKP,MMA. That's a pretty dumb statement, someone not being known doesn't mean anything. Many people didn't know DRG before he came crashing into GSTL. Same with MMA, many people don't know Nerchio and he's been dominating everyone in EU, 3-0ing people like Thorzain who also noone knew before his TSL cinderella story. so.. Nericho had no achievement before he beat Thorzain? cool counter-argument bro, post again when you have one. Thorzain to NA players and KR players (many of (MC, MMA, Spunky) considering him to be on KR level) was infinitely more known than Nerchio. someone who isn't known taking someone out who is doesn't mean jackshit so you think Nericho is noname player right? but, It doesn't seem like that according to TLPD http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players/1771_Nerchionow look at Sage's http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/players/1973_SageJYP, who beat MKP, is not even in TLPD lol I wonder how Mcc heard of Sage before...
I will not reply to your post, because there's evidently no content in it and I don't want to shit up this thread anymore, because it's about Dreamhack and who's attending and now whether I think Nerchio is a no-name player (which I don't)
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3030 Posts
Damn, more and more people aren't going. Hope they get enough good replacements.
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Noo! NaDa my champ..:/ I had hoped to see the best player of all time duke it out!, hope he comes to the next dreamhack, because I would really like to meet him/see him.
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less terrans = less booring tvt hopefully
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Oh man, thats no fun that Nada has to miss. Perhaps he will make it up to us and attend MLG!
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No Fruitdealer either :'(
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United States7481 Posts
On June 15 2011 06:10 namedplayer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 05:44 ChickenLips wrote:On June 15 2011 05:39 namedplayer wrote:On June 15 2011 05:36 ChickenLips wrote:On June 15 2011 05:34 namedplayer wrote:On June 15 2011 05:26 mcc wrote:On June 15 2011 05:23 namedplayer wrote:On June 15 2011 05:14 mcc wrote:On June 15 2011 04:47 Blasphemi wrote:On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote:Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins. Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level. And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference? Ill start by saying that Koreans are better, I just do not think that the difference is like terribly high. I think they are mostly more consistent, foreigners just show some great games a then some terrible ones(for that level of play) and in the tournament that plays a big role. Now for your argument. In Copenhagen games, recently-code-S player TheWind gets beaten quite early. Hmm, might that mean that code S is (now it is much better, but I think the observation still holds) not so far from the foreigner level and has rather big difference between the best and worst players ? Whatever people say MC vs Thorzain was played without latency and yet he lost Bo7 (I think, maybe Bo5). Also TOP is not exactly a bad player, top4 in GSL ST and playing pretty well in every GSL. So yep, top Koreans are better, but code S is definitely not some untouchable group of players that no foreigner can touch. It is not like there are no foreigners in code S and HuK definitely did not yet show that he can be considered one the very top foreigners. It's not like foreigners can touch. more like SC2 is still volatile. as I said, MMA and MKP got 0-2ed by no name Koreans yesterday. (Sage beat MMA, JYP beat MKP) btw, is there any no-name EU players who can 2-0 MKP,MMA in EU? What is no-name ? someone who... has no achievement? you prolly never heard of JYP,Sage before right? even no name can beat MKP,MMA. That's a pretty dumb statement, someone not being known doesn't mean anything. Many people didn't know DRG before he came crashing into GSTL. Same with MMA, many people don't know Nerchio and he's been dominating everyone in EU, 3-0ing people like Thorzain who also noone knew before his TSL cinderella story. so.. Nericho had no achievement before he beat Thorzain? cool counter-argument bro, post again when you have one. Thorzain to NA players and KR players (many of (MC, MMA, Spunky) considering him to be on KR level) was infinitely more known than Nerchio. someone who isn't known taking someone out who is doesn't mean jackshit so you think Nericho is noname player right? but, It doesn't seem like that according to TLPD http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players/1771_Nerchionow look at Sage's http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/players/1973_SageJYP, who beat MKP, is not even in TLPD lol I wonder how Mcc heard of Sage before...
 JYP
it would be a bummer if fd indeed isn't going but right now i'm going to wait for more information before getting too upset, right now it's like 3rd-hand information
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thats sooooooooooooooooooooooooo sad
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This is turning into a fucking joke, shame on the koreans that is just fucking around with invites like this.
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On June 15 2011 05:28 mcc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 05:25 Blasphemi wrote:On June 15 2011 05:23 Karakaxe wrote:On June 15 2011 05:21 Blasphemi wrote:On June 15 2011 05:14 mcc wrote:On June 15 2011 04:47 Blasphemi wrote:On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote:Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins. Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level. And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference? Ill start by saying that Koreans are better, I just do not think that the difference is like terribly high. I think they are mostly more consistent, foreigners just show some great games a then some terrible ones(for that level of play) and in the tournament that plays a big role. Now for your argument. In Copenhagen games, recently-code-S player TheWind gets beaten quite early. Hmm, might that mean that code S is (now it is much better, but I think the observation still holds) not so far from the foreigner level and has rather big difference between the best and worst players ? Whatever people say MC vs Thorzain was played without latency and yet he lost Bo7 (I think, maybe Bo5). Also TOP is not exactly a bad player, top4 in GSL ST and playing pretty well in every GSL. So yep, top Koreans are better, but code S is definitely not some untouchable group of players that no foreigner can touch. It is not like there are no foreigners in code S and HuK definitely did not yet show that he can be considered one the very top foreigners. Back then TOP definitely wasn't at that level. The Thorzain/MC game was a best of 5. Another thing rather mentioned is that the winning game for Thorzain involved a strategy so overpowered Blizzard nerfed it very soon after, it's pretty rare for Blizzard to do that so fast. You have an answer for everything don't you :D:D Thorzain deserved his win, he did great. I just wouldn't use one game as evidence when there's about 100 games to the contrary. Contrary to what ? You would be right if I was saying that Koreans are not better, but I am saying something completely different and your reply did not really address that.
That's what happens when you reply in the defense of a volume poster. You're right that the top foreigners can take games off Koreans but you're basically replying in defense of some clueless fanboy who thinks there's no difference between the Korean and foreigner scenes.
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On June 15 2011 06:13 ChickenLips wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 06:10 namedplayer wrote:On June 15 2011 05:44 ChickenLips wrote:On June 15 2011 05:39 namedplayer wrote:On June 15 2011 05:36 ChickenLips wrote:On June 15 2011 05:34 namedplayer wrote:On June 15 2011 05:26 mcc wrote:On June 15 2011 05:23 namedplayer wrote:On June 15 2011 05:14 mcc wrote:On June 15 2011 04:47 Blasphemi wrote:
[quote]
Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea)
Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though.
IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three.
GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after.
Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it.
Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans.
MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one.
Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins.
Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level.
And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference? Ill start by saying that Koreans are better, I just do not think that the difference is like terribly high. I think they are mostly more consistent, foreigners just show some great games a then some terrible ones(for that level of play) and in the tournament that plays a big role. Now for your argument. In Copenhagen games, recently-code-S player TheWind gets beaten quite early. Hmm, might that mean that code S is (now it is much better, but I think the observation still holds) not so far from the foreigner level and has rather big difference between the best and worst players ? Whatever people say MC vs Thorzain was played without latency and yet he lost Bo7 (I think, maybe Bo5). Also TOP is not exactly a bad player, top4 in GSL ST and playing pretty well in every GSL. So yep, top Koreans are better, but code S is definitely not some untouchable group of players that no foreigner can touch. It is not like there are no foreigners in code S and HuK definitely did not yet show that he can be considered one the very top foreigners. It's not like foreigners can touch. more like SC2 is still volatile. as I said, MMA and MKP got 0-2ed by no name Koreans yesterday. (Sage beat MMA, JYP beat MKP) btw, is there any no-name EU players who can 2-0 MKP,MMA in EU? What is no-name ? someone who... has no achievement? you prolly never heard of JYP,Sage before right? even no name can beat MKP,MMA. That's a pretty dumb statement, someone not being known doesn't mean anything. Many people didn't know DRG before he came crashing into GSTL. Same with MMA, many people don't know Nerchio and he's been dominating everyone in EU, 3-0ing people like Thorzain who also noone knew before his TSL cinderella story. so.. Nericho had no achievement before he beat Thorzain? cool counter-argument bro, post again when you have one. Thorzain to NA players and KR players (many of (MC, MMA, Spunky) considering him to be on KR level) was infinitely more known than Nerchio. someone who isn't known taking someone out who is doesn't mean jackshit so you think Nericho is noname player right? but, It doesn't seem like that according to TLPD http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players/1771_Nerchionow look at Sage's http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/players/1973_SageJYP, who beat MKP, is not even in TLPD lol I wonder how Mcc heard of Sage before... I will not reply to your post, because there's evidently no content in it and I don't want to shit up this thread anymore, because it's about Dreamhack and who's attending and now whether I think Nerchio is a no-name player (which I don't)
good for you
just remember that even Code-B random guys who don't even have record can beat MMA,MKP. SC2 is volatile, anyone can win.
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EPT
