Also all the koreans say they would jump at a chance to go to foreign tourny then drop out... if they keep doing that then they will just stop getting invited...
On June 15 2011 02:10 SmoKim wrote: oh man that's a bummer , but it won't change the fact that Dreamhack has the most stacked line-up so far for any tournament
Lol idunno about 'most stacked'. I'd say GSL code S tourney is a bit 'more stacked' without a doubt. Bummer about Nada & co...
I hope there's a good reason for them to decline this late. Otherwise I sure hope none of them gets another invitation(well, Nada is cute enough to get a second chance I guess). I'd be pissed if I was DH.
On June 15 2011 02:10 SmoKim wrote: oh man that's a bummer , but it won't change the fact that Dreamhack has the most stacked line-up so far for any tournament
Lol idunno about 'most stacked'. I'd say GSL code S tourney is a bit 'more stacked' without a doubt. Bummer about Nada & co...
Code S is hardly stacked. Especially not compared to Dreamhack.
On June 15 2011 02:14 Longshank wrote: I hope there's a good reason for them to decline this late. Otherwise I sure hope none of them gets another invitation(well, Nada is cute enough to get a second chance I guess). I'd be pissed if I was DH.
Ya that's what I was thinking. If it's just "whoops, after all this time we didn't work out getting a visa" (or something along those lines) then I hope organizers look to invite other pros, or players from other teams... because there has been plenty of time.
MKP had a overlaping tournament in korea (sadly he got killed in first round, the same as MMA). Now it looks like he stays in korea to help Polt prepare for GSL final.
On June 15 2011 02:18 Sandro wrote: So the Koreans expressed an interest in coming...and now they drop out at close to the last moment?
Am I the only one thinking that they shouldn't be re-invited?
MC hasn't said anything about dropping out has he?
To the best of my knowledge, MKP, NaDa, InCa, and Anypro are the only ones that have dropped out.
With NaDa I figure it's understandable, though I'm curious as to why the others dropped out.
I heard MKP would drop out if he made it to the championship of the GSL, so maybe when he was in the ro4 he wasn't sure if he would make it so he gave them more warning? I'm not too sure though.
On June 15 2011 02:22 Frankon wrote: MKP had a overlaping tournament in korea (sadly he got killed in first round, the same as MMA). Now it looks like he stays in korea to help Polt prepare for GSL final.
On June 15 2011 02:18 Sandro wrote: So the Koreans expressed an interest in coming...and now they drop out at close to the last moment?
Am I the only one thinking that they shouldn't be re-invited?
MC hasn't said anything about dropping out has he?
To the best of my knowledge, MKP, NaDa, InCa, and Anypro are the only ones that have dropped out.
With NaDa I figure it's understandable, though I'm curious as to why the others dropped out.
I heard MKP would drop out if he made it to the championship of the GSL, so maybe when he was in the ro4 he wasn't sure if he would make it so he gave them more warning? I'm not too sure though.
MKP is more than likely helping Polt for MMA and showing up to the GSL Final to support him.
On June 15 2011 02:10 SmoKim wrote: oh man that's a bummer , but it won't change the fact that Dreamhack has the most stacked line-up so far for any tournament
Lol idunno about 'most stacked'. I'd say GSL code S tourney is a bit 'more stacked' without a doubt. Bummer about Nada & co...
Code S is hardly stacked. Especially not compared to Dreamhack.
LOLWAT.
The only tournament that was stacked like Code S is... was TSL. If my stacked you mean overall skill that is. Because I'm pretty sure majority of Code S players could go to any Foreigner tournament and win it; if there wasn't another Korean that beat them.
Keep in mind that every single SC2 LAN tournament that had at least one Korean attending it has been won by a Korean except for DH Winter.
If you mean stacked like by player popularity, sure. TSL might still have it beat though, but sure.
MC, Bomber and July are three of the best. It is still the biggest global tournament held yet, but it is very unprofessional of the guys that pulled out at the last minute. Dreamhack do not deserve such treatment.
On June 15 2011 02:10 SmoKim wrote: oh man that's a bummer , but it won't change the fact that Dreamhack has the most stacked line-up so far for any tournament
Lol idunno about 'most stacked'. I'd say GSL code S tourney is a bit 'more stacked' without a doubt. Bummer about Nada & co...
Code S is hardly stacked. Especially not compared to Dreamhack.
LOLWAT.
The only tournament that was stacked like Code S is... was TSL. If my stacked you mean overall skill that is. Because I'm pretty sure majority of Code S players could go to any Foreigner tournament and win it; if there wasn't another Korean that beat them.
Keep in mind that every single SC2 LAN tournament that had at least one Korean attending it has been won by a Korean except for DH Winter.
If you mean stacked like by player popularity, sure. TSL might still have it beat though, but sure.
MC won DH winter he beat White-ra 3-2 in the finals.
On June 15 2011 02:10 SmoKim wrote: oh man that's a bummer , but it won't change the fact that Dreamhack has the most stacked line-up so far for any tournament
Lol idunno about 'most stacked'. I'd say GSL code S tourney is a bit 'more stacked' without a doubt. Bummer about Nada & co...
Code S is hardly stacked. Especially not compared to Dreamhack.
LOLWAT.
The only tournament that was stacked like Code S is... was TSL. If my stacked you mean overall skill that is. Because I'm pretty sure majority of Code S players could go to any Foreigner tournament and win it; if there wasn't another Korean that beat them.
Keep in mind that every single SC2 LAN tournament that had at least one Korean attending it has been won by a Korean except for DH Winter.
If you mean stacked like by player popularity, sure. TSL might still have it beat though, but sure.
MC won DH winter he beat White-ra 3-2 in the finals.
No he didn't it was won by Naama over Mana in the finals.
Why apply if you can't come? I don't like how the koreans handle foreign events like they're nothing special, instead we see guys like meRz and naugrim just because of this, no time to invite non-locals, not that they're bad but they lower the overall quality of the participants.
Organizers must be harder on them, if a random guy withdrew from a tournament they would reconsider before inviting him again. For now the koreans=bigger interest, but when that's not the case I hope they can't pull stuff like this. Fine if they can't come once and have a reason. Twice I think they should be assigned to the BYOC next time.
On June 15 2011 02:10 SmoKim wrote: oh man that's a bummer , but it won't change the fact that Dreamhack has the most stacked line-up so far for any tournament
Lol idunno about 'most stacked'. I'd say GSL code S tourney is a bit 'more stacked' without a doubt. Bummer about Nada & co...
Code S is hardly stacked. Especially not compared to Dreamhack.
LOLWAT.
The only tournament that was stacked like Code S is... was TSL. If my stacked you mean overall skill that is. Because I'm pretty sure majority of Code S players could go to any Foreigner tournament and win it; if there wasn't another Korean that beat them.
Keep in mind that every single SC2 LAN tournament that had at least one Korean attending it has been won by a Korean except for DH Winter.
If you mean stacked like by player popularity, sure. TSL might still have it beat though, but sure.
MC won DH winter he beat White-ra 3-2 in the finals.
It was DH Stockholm Invitational, not DH winter, which was won by NaaMa.
MKP really does have to stay in Korean to help PoltPrime.
When your teammate is in the finals of the biggest starcraft 2 tournament in history, I think it is your duty to help.
Sad to see no Nada I hope they find someone to replace all of them. I think they desperately need to get Nerchio there now. I'm already upset at some of the zergs they have invited over him...
On June 15 2011 02:10 SmoKim wrote: oh man that's a bummer , but it won't change the fact that Dreamhack has the most stacked line-up so far for any tournament
Lol idunno about 'most stacked'. I'd say GSL code S tourney is a bit 'more stacked' without a doubt. Bummer about Nada & co...
Code S is hardly stacked. Especially not compared to Dreamhack.
LOLWAT.
The only tournament that was stacked like Code S is... was TSL. If my stacked you mean overall skill that is. Because I'm pretty sure majority of Code S players could go to any Foreigner tournament and win it; if there wasn't another Korean that beat them.
Keep in mind that every single SC2 LAN tournament that had at least one Korean attending it has been won by a Korean except for DH Winter.
If you mean stacked like by player popularity, sure. TSL might still have it beat though, but sure.
MC won DH winter he beat White-ra 3-2 in the finals.
No he didn't it was won by Naama over Mana in the finals.
On June 15 2011 02:10 SmoKim wrote: oh man that's a bummer , but it won't change the fact that Dreamhack has the most stacked line-up so far for any tournament
Lol idunno about 'most stacked'. I'd say GSL code S tourney is a bit 'more stacked' without a doubt. Bummer about Nada & co...
Code S is hardly stacked. Especially not compared to Dreamhack.
LOLWAT.
The only tournament that was stacked like Code S is... was TSL. If my stacked you mean overall skill that is. Because I'm pretty sure majority of Code S players could go to any Foreigner tournament and win it; if there wasn't another Korean that beat them.
Keep in mind that every single SC2 LAN tournament that had at least one Korean attending it has been won by a Korean except for DH Winter.
If you mean stacked like by player popularity, sure. TSL might still have it beat though, but sure.
MC won DH winter he beat White-ra 3-2 in the finals.
No he won the dreamhack stockholm invitational. Naama won dreamhack winter.
On June 15 2011 02:10 SmoKim wrote: oh man that's a bummer , but it won't change the fact that Dreamhack has the most stacked line-up so far for any tournament
Lol idunno about 'most stacked'. I'd say GSL code S tourney is a bit 'more stacked' without a doubt. Bummer about Nada & co...
Code S is hardly stacked. Especially not compared to Dreamhack.
no Nada is pretty sad, was expecting to see him outside korea, but as long as we still got MC (gotta love mc, he's living the life, he gets flown across the world to every tournament to rob people of their money, hell, the chinese should pop him an invite for one of their tournaments soon), Bomber and July, who cares what the other koreans do
(ps: wtf is IM doing, they have 4 gsl tourney wins yet they haven't sent their star players overseas once, when the popular demand is off the charts, and they've said they want to compete outside of korea :-s)
News like these make me wonder if sc2 esports needs some kind of head organisation. I feel like that most tournement organisations have a really hard time to get the players together because e.g. koreans have to wait until they drop out of GSL, EPS Players have their commitments, there is NASL etc.. It's really tough to plan ahead and there have allready been too much overlapping tournys imo.
On June 15 2011 02:40 Jiddra wrote: Koreans seem to have a hard time to keep promises to attend stuff.
Why even apply/accept a invite if you are going to have exams that week.
Dreamhack invites were probably arranged months ago. I doubt NaDa knew when his exams would be back then, although he probably knew before today. Maybe he was trying to see if he could get them rearranged, or something? Who knows, he's a busy guy. Sucks that he couldn't make it. =/
On June 15 2011 02:44 Influ wrote: News like these make me wonder if sc2 esports needs some kind of head organisation. I feel like that most tournement organisations have a really hard time to get the players together because e.g. koreans have to wait until they drop out of GSL, EPS Players have their commitments, there is NASL etc.. It's really tough to plan ahead and there have allready been too much overlapping tournys imo.
In theory this is a good idea and works very well in Tennis and other solo sports, but the use of it in Starcraft will be forever tainted by Kespa.
On June 15 2011 02:36 busbarn wrote: Why apply if you can't come? I don't like how the koreans handle foreign events like they're nothing special, instead we see guys like meRz and naugrim just because of this, no time to invite non-locals, not that they're bad but they lower the overall quality of the participants.
Organizers must be harder on them, if a random guy withdrew from a tournament they would reconsider before inviting him again. For now the koreans=bigger interest, but when that's not the case I hope they can't pull stuff like this. Fine if they can't come once and have a reason. Twice I think they should be assigned to the BYOC next time.
Because the entire years worth of schedules isn't always handed out to your right away? Sometimes shit comes up. If you're supposed to be the captain of your team and one of your players makes it to the finals, you help him prep, it's only fair.
On June 15 2011 02:41 anatem wrote: no Nada is pretty sad, was expecting to see him outside korea, but as long as we still got MC (gotta love mc, he's living the life, he gets flown across the world to every tournament to rob people of their money, hell, the chinese should pop him an invite for one of their tournaments soon), Bomber and July, who cares what the other koreans do
(ps: wtf is IM doing, they have 4 gsl tourney wins yet they haven't sent their star players overseas once, when the popular demand is off the charts, and they've said they want to compete outside of korea :-s)
MKP not going is understandeble however Nada should have known about his exam 2-3 weeks ago and informed Dreamhack its very unprofessional I expected alot more from Nada
On June 15 2011 02:36 busbarn wrote: Why apply if you can't come? I don't like how the koreans handle foreign events like they're nothing special, instead we see guys like meRz and naugrim just because of this, no time to invite non-locals, not that they're bad but they lower the overall quality of the participants.
Organizers must be harder on them, if a random guy withdrew from a tournament they would reconsider before inviting him again. For now the koreans=bigger interest, but when that's not the case I hope they can't pull stuff like this. Fine if they can't come once and have a reason. Twice I think they should be assigned to the BYOC next time.
Because the entire years worth of schedules isn't always handed out to your right away? Sometimes shit comes up. If you're supposed to be the captain of your team and one of your players makes it to the finals, you help him prep, it's only fair.
Four people dropped out the week of the tournament, that shit isnt right. You cannot defend that no matter how much you want to.
On June 15 2011 02:55 Waxangel wrote: can't find any confirmation for the rest of the players on Korean websites, except for Nada who did confirm on his twitter
I'd like to know why Anypro and inca backed out?
And also shouldn't you kind of know your Exam schedule from the start of the year or at least a few months in advance?
On June 15 2011 02:55 Waxangel wrote: can't find any confirmation for the rest of the players on Korean websites, except for Nada who did confirm on his twitter
I'd like to know why Anypro and inca backed out?
And also shouldn't you kind of know your Exam schedule from the start of the year or at least a few months in advance?
No .... maybe a few weeks in advance, but even then, professors change things up on you anyways. Not to mention, it's really hard to gauge whether or not you're behind on studying until the week of the exams. He might have thought he had the material under control and then realized no, not really. At least, that's how it rolls with me most of the times.
NaDa must have a good reason, he was probably favorite to take the whole thing. Still, it will be a great tournament, Dreamhack always has the production value to rival the best SC2 tournament out there. We will forget about things like this once it gets underway.
On June 15 2011 02:55 Waxangel wrote: can't find any confirmation for the rest of the players on Korean websites, except for Nada who did confirm on his twitter
I'd like to know why Anypro and inca backed out?
And also shouldn't you kind of know your Exam schedule from the start of the year or at least a few months in advance?
No .... maybe a few weeks in advance, but even then, professors change things up on you anyways. Not to mention, it's really hard to gauge whether or not you're behind on studying until the week of the exams. He might have thought he had the material under control and then realized no, not really. At least, that's how it rolls with me most of the times.
Sometimes its slips our mind that Nada is human. A fairly common misconception.
On June 15 2011 02:55 Waxangel wrote: can't find any confirmation for the rest of the players on Korean websites, except for Nada who did confirm on his twitter
I'd like to know why Anypro and inca backed out?
And also shouldn't you kind of know your Exam schedule from the start of the year or at least a few months in advance?
No .... maybe a few weeks in advance, but even then, professors change things up on you anyways. Not to mention, it's really hard to gauge whether or not you're behind on studying until the week of the exams. He might have thought he had the material under control and then realized no, not really. At least, that's how it rolls with me most of the times.
Yeah, I'm writing exams now (Canadian high school, not Korean university), and I only got my final exam schedule two or three weeks ago.
On June 15 2011 02:10 SmoKim wrote: oh man that's a bummer , but it won't change the fact that Dreamhack has the most stacked line-up so far for any tournament
Lol idunno about 'most stacked'. I'd say GSL code S tourney is a bit 'more stacked' without a doubt. Bummer about Nada & co...
Code S is hardly stacked. Especially not compared to Dreamhack.
Code S is at least 10x as stacked as Dreamhack. You have a few star koreans + some star foreigners + some no name/average foreigners. Hardly anywhere as stacked as any korean tournament.
On June 15 2011 02:10 SmoKim wrote: oh man that's a bummer , but it won't change the fact that Dreamhack has the most stacked line-up so far for any tournament
Lol idunno about 'most stacked'. I'd say GSL code S tourney is a bit 'more stacked' without a doubt. Bummer about Nada & co...
Code S is hardly stacked. Especially not compared to Dreamhack.
Code S is at least 10x as stacked as Dreamhack. You have a few star koreans + some star foreigners + some no name/average foreigners. Hardly anywhere as stacked as any korean tournament.
On June 15 2011 02:40 Jiddra wrote: Koreans seem to have a hard time to keep promises to attend stuff.
Why even apply/accept a invite if you are going to have exams that week.
I must have missed some events, but what else have they not been attending? Of course there was the Bomber situation recently, but he was then replaced by a Korean, so I don't know if you could say that they have a hard time to keep promises if another one replaces him.
On June 15 2011 02:41 anatem wrote: no Nada is pretty sad, was expecting to see him outside korea, but as long as we still got MC (gotta love mc, he's living the life, he gets flown across the world to every tournament to rob people of their money, hell, the chinese should pop him an invite for one of their tournaments soon), Bomber and July, who cares what the other koreans do
(ps: wtf is IM doing, they have 4 gsl tourney wins yet they haven't sent their star players overseas once, when the popular demand is off the charts, and they've said they want to compete outside of korea :-s)
MC just recently finished playing in a Chinese tournament...
On June 15 2011 02:10 SmoKim wrote: oh man that's a bummer , but it won't change the fact that Dreamhack has the most stacked line-up so far for any tournament
Lol idunno about 'most stacked'. I'd say GSL code S tourney is a bit 'more stacked' without a doubt. Bummer about Nada & co...
Code S is hardly stacked. Especially not compared to Dreamhack.
Code S is at least 10x as stacked as Dreamhack. You have a few star koreans + some star foreigners + some no name/average foreigners. Hardly anywhere as stacked as any korean tournament.
If you're going to pull numbers, be realistic.
Maybe not 10x but the post he was replying to was a lot more idiotic. How many more foreign events do koreans have to sweep before people get the picture? Too bad MKP isn't attending he finally could've won an event -_-. MC/Bomber will still take 1/2 tho unless they meet earlier on. The rest is up for grabs imo
MKP and Nada not going is a huge downer... I hope MMA replaces MKP (If the schedule for gsl doesn't conflict, which I doubt..). I hope MKP isn't suffering from his recent loss.
On June 15 2011 03:23 Dreamer.T wrote: MKP and Nada not going is a huge downer... I hope MMA replaces MKP (If the schedule for gsl doesn't conflict, which I doubt..). I hope MKP isn't suffering from his recent loss.
I think the reason MKP didnt go is it conflicted with GSL final. so for that reason MMA cant go. GSL finals is after the first day of play for dreamhack, or maybe during.
On June 15 2011 02:10 SmoKim wrote: oh man that's a bummer , but it won't change the fact that Dreamhack has the most stacked line-up so far for any tournament
Lol idunno about 'most stacked'. I'd say GSL code S tourney is a bit 'more stacked' without a doubt. Bummer about Nada & co...
Code S is hardly stacked. Especially not compared to Dreamhack.
Code S is at least 10x as stacked as Dreamhack. You have a few star koreans + some star foreigners + some no name/average foreigners. Hardly anywhere as stacked as any korean tournament.
If you're going to pull numbers, be realistic.
I fight stupidity with stupidity. Works well I think.
Bah, and I was only going because I wanted to stalk NaDa. Now I might as well stay home. :[
No, but seriously.. NaDa and MKP were the players I was most pumped about seeing. Not sure if I'll bother going now seeing as it's a 3-hour drive and I wouldn't be able to stay overnight. Maybe if the stream wasn't working..
the thing with nada is that he has some important exams to take and he would have stayed in europe for approx. 10 days cause of homestory cup afterwards. he told me that he needs some time to relax aswell.
We wanted to send inca or top instead of nada but we couldnt get the same flight for them as MC so MC will come alone.
On June 15 2011 02:10 SmoKim wrote: oh man that's a bummer , but it won't change the fact that Dreamhack has the most stacked line-up so far for any tournament
Lol idunno about 'most stacked'. I'd say GSL code S tourney is a bit 'more stacked' without a doubt. Bummer about Nada & co...
Code S is hardly stacked. Especially not compared to Dreamhack.
Code S is at least 10x as stacked as Dreamhack. You have a few star koreans + some star foreigners + some no name/average foreigners. Hardly anywhere as stacked as any korean tournament.
Code S = 31 Koreans Dreamhack = 5 Koreans
Therefore, Code S is 6.2 times more stacked than Dreamhack. Infallible logic!
Nerchio isn't coming, currently he doesn't want to do offline tournament
Doesn't Nerchio have sage fright? I heard Rotterdam and Demuslim talk about it (could be someone else)
That's Satiini, he's got a phobia for crowded places or somesuch.
Nah, satiini just has fear of airplanes. He can't travel, cause he can't get on a plane, was a big problem for him during his wc3 prime (he was owning everyone, but couldn't travel, even if fnatic paid for his trip).
On June 15 2011 02:10 SmoKim wrote: oh man that's a bummer , but it won't change the fact that Dreamhack has the most stacked line-up so far for any tournament
Lol idunno about 'most stacked'. I'd say GSL code S tourney is a bit 'more stacked' without a doubt. Bummer about Nada & co...
Code S is hardly stacked. Especially not compared to Dreamhack.
Code S is at least 10x as stacked as Dreamhack. You have a few star koreans + some star foreigners + some no name/average foreigners. Hardly anywhere as stacked as any korean tournament.
If you're going to pull numbers, be realistic.
Maybe not 10x but the post he was replying to was a lot more idiotic. How many more foreign events do koreans have to sweep before people get the picture? Too bad MKP isn't attending he finally could've won an event -_-. MC/Bomber will still take 1/2 tho unless they meet earlier on. The rest is up for grabs imo
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
On June 15 2011 03:39 SKreis wrote: the thing with nada is that he has some important exams to take and he would have stayed in europe for approx. 10 days cause of homestory cup afterwards. he told me that he needs some time to relax aswell.
We wanted to send inca or top instead of nada but we couldnt get the same flight for them as MC so MC will come alone.
On June 15 2011 02:10 SmoKim wrote: oh man that's a bummer , but it won't change the fact that Dreamhack has the most stacked line-up so far for any tournament
Lol idunno about 'most stacked'. I'd say GSL code S tourney is a bit 'more stacked' without a doubt. Bummer about Nada & co...
Code S is hardly stacked. Especially not compared to Dreamhack.
Code S is at least 10x as stacked as Dreamhack. You have a few star koreans + some star foreigners + some no name/average foreigners. Hardly anywhere as stacked as any korean tournament.
If you're going to pull numbers, be realistic.
Maybe not 10x but the post he was replying to was a lot more idiotic. How many more foreign events do koreans have to sweep before people get the picture? Too bad MKP isn't attending he finally could've won an event -_-. MC/Bomber will still take 1/2 tho unless they meet earlier on. The rest is up for grabs imo
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
On June 15 2011 02:10 SmoKim wrote: oh man that's a bummer , but it won't change the fact that Dreamhack has the most stacked line-up so far for any tournament
Lol idunno about 'most stacked'. I'd say GSL code S tourney is a bit 'more stacked' without a doubt. Bummer about Nada & co...
Code S is hardly stacked. Especially not compared to Dreamhack.
Code S is at least 10x as stacked as Dreamhack. You have a few star koreans + some star foreigners + some no name/average foreigners. Hardly anywhere as stacked as any korean tournament.
If you're going to pull numbers, be realistic.
Maybe not 10x but the post he was replying to was a lot more idiotic. How many more foreign events do koreans have to sweep before people get the picture? Too bad MKP isn't attending he finally could've won an event -_-. MC/Bomber will still take 1/2 tho unless they meet earlier on. The rest is up for grabs imo
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
Uh, what are you basing your results off of? Almost all the korean invites coming to foreign tournaments these days are the top players of their country. Did you even watch the TSL3? And don't even fucking talk about latency, most of them just got out-played.
On June 15 2011 02:10 SmoKim wrote: oh man that's a bummer , but it won't change the fact that Dreamhack has the most stacked line-up so far for any tournament
Lol idunno about 'most stacked'. I'd say GSL code S tourney is a bit 'more stacked' without a doubt. Bummer about Nada & co...
Code S is hardly stacked. Especially not compared to Dreamhack.
Code S is at least 10x as stacked as Dreamhack. You have a few star koreans + some star foreigners + some no name/average foreigners. Hardly anywhere as stacked as any korean tournament.
If you're going to pull numbers, be realistic.
Maybe not 10x but the post he was replying to was a lot more idiotic. How many more foreign events do koreans have to sweep before people get the picture? Too bad MKP isn't attending he finally could've won an event -_-. MC/Bomber will still take 1/2 tho unless they meet earlier on. The rest is up for grabs imo
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
Nerchio isn't coming, currently he doesn't want to do offline tournament
Doesn't Nerchio have sage fright? I heard Rotterdam and Demuslim talk about it (could be someone else)
That's Satiini, he's got a phobia for crowded places or somesuch.
Nah, satiini just has fear of airplanes. He can't travel, cause he can't get on a plane, was a big problem for him during his wc3 prime (he was owning everyone, but couldn't travel, even if fnatic paid for his trip).
A yeah that was it. Point still stands though that it wasn't Nerchio they were talking about.
On June 15 2011 02:10 SmoKim wrote: oh man that's a bummer , but it won't change the fact that Dreamhack has the most stacked line-up so far for any tournament
Lol idunno about 'most stacked'. I'd say GSL code S tourney is a bit 'more stacked' without a doubt. Bummer about Nada & co...
Code S is hardly stacked. Especially not compared to Dreamhack.
Code S is at least 10x as stacked as Dreamhack. You have a few star koreans + some star foreigners + some no name/average foreigners. Hardly anywhere as stacked as any korean tournament.
If you're going to pull numbers, be realistic.
Maybe not 10x but the post he was replying to was a lot more idiotic. How many more foreign events do koreans have to sweep before people get the picture? Too bad MKP isn't attending he finally could've won an event -_-. MC/Bomber will still take 1/2 tho unless they meet earlier on. The rest is up for grabs imo
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
On June 15 2011 02:10 SmoKim wrote: oh man that's a bummer , but it won't change the fact that Dreamhack has the most stacked line-up so far for any tournament
Lol idunno about 'most stacked'. I'd say GSL code S tourney is a bit 'more stacked' without a doubt. Bummer about Nada & co...
Code S is hardly stacked. Especially not compared to Dreamhack.
Code S is at least 10x as stacked as Dreamhack. You have a few star koreans + some star foreigners + some no name/average foreigners. Hardly anywhere as stacked as any korean tournament.
If you're going to pull numbers, be realistic.
Maybe not 10x but the post he was replying to was a lot more idiotic. How many more foreign events do koreans have to sweep before people get the picture? Too bad MKP isn't attending he finally could've won an event -_-. MC/Bomber will still take 1/2 tho unless they meet earlier on. The rest is up for grabs imo
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
On June 15 2011 02:13 FallDownMarigold wrote: [quote] Lol idunno about 'most stacked'. I'd say GSL code S tourney is a bit 'more stacked' without a doubt. Bummer about Nada & co...
Code S is hardly stacked. Especially not compared to Dreamhack.
Code S is at least 10x as stacked as Dreamhack. You have a few star koreans + some star foreigners + some no name/average foreigners. Hardly anywhere as stacked as any korean tournament.
If you're going to pull numbers, be realistic.
Maybe not 10x but the post he was replying to was a lot more idiotic. How many more foreign events do koreans have to sweep before people get the picture? Too bad MKP isn't attending he finally could've won an event -_-. MC/Bomber will still take 1/2 tho unless they meet earlier on. The rest is up for grabs imo
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
TSL3 was online, which ends that argument.
No, it does not actually. Thanks for trying champ
yes it does, get out troll. 350 ping vs 30 ping.
try it.
ps:
TSL3: everyone: LOLOLOL 'white dudes own korea' Korea: but it was lag everyone: BUT YOU LOST! LOLOLOLOL.
MLG Columbus everyone: wow.... we are way behind the koreans... 1st/2nd/3rd all koreans. koreans only lost to koreans in columbus... wow. Korea: told you it was lag. everyone: *starts thread about people getting owned at homesoil*
On June 15 2011 02:15 Elem wrote: [quote]Code S is hardly stacked. Especially not compared to Dreamhack.
Code S is at least 10x as stacked as Dreamhack. You have a few star koreans + some star foreigners + some no name/average foreigners. Hardly anywhere as stacked as any korean tournament.
If you're going to pull numbers, be realistic.
Maybe not 10x but the post he was replying to was a lot more idiotic. How many more foreign events do koreans have to sweep before people get the picture? Too bad MKP isn't attending he finally could've won an event -_-. MC/Bomber will still take 1/2 tho unless they meet earlier on. The rest is up for grabs imo
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
TSL3 was online, which ends that argument.
No, it does not actually. Thanks for trying champ
yes it does, get out troll. 350 ping vs 30 ping.
try it.
ps:
TSL3: everyone: LOLOLOL 'white dudes own korea' Korea: but it was lag everyone: BUT YOU LOST! LOLOLOLOL.
MLG Columbus everyone: wow.... we are way behind the koreans... 1st/2nd/3rd all koreans. koreans only lost to koreans in columbus... wow. Korea: told you it was lag. everyone: *starts thread about people getting owned at homesoil*
Ah, I forgot how every time a Korean loses it is because jetlag/lag/they didnt care. My bad
On June 15 2011 03:39 SKreis wrote: the thing with nada is that he has some important exams to take and he would have stayed in europe for approx. 10 days cause of homestory cup afterwards. he told me that he needs some time to relax aswell.
We wanted to send inca or top instead of nada but we couldnt get the same flight for them as MC so MC will come alone.
Wait when was he invited to Homestory cup?
My guess is that he was invited to THC but he also declined for the reasons you've quoted.
On June 15 2011 02:13 FallDownMarigold wrote: [quote] Lol idunno about 'most stacked'. I'd say GSL code S tourney is a bit 'more stacked' without a doubt. Bummer about Nada & co...
Code S is hardly stacked. Especially not compared to Dreamhack.
Code S is at least 10x as stacked as Dreamhack. You have a few star koreans + some star foreigners + some no name/average foreigners. Hardly anywhere as stacked as any korean tournament.
If you're going to pull numbers, be realistic.
Maybe not 10x but the post he was replying to was a lot more idiotic. How many more foreign events do koreans have to sweep before people get the picture? Too bad MKP isn't attending he finally could've won an event -_-. MC/Bomber will still take 1/2 tho unless they meet earlier on. The rest is up for grabs imo
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
TSL3 was online, which ends that argument.
No, it does not actually. Thanks for trying champ
So before making statements, have you actually experienced the latency from KR to NA, EU? If not, your opinion does not matter.
Sad to see NaDa missing out, but I guess education > everything.
On June 15 2011 02:10 SmoKim wrote: oh man that's a bummer , but it won't change the fact that Dreamhack has the most stacked line-up so far for any tournament
Lol idunno about 'most stacked'. I'd say GSL code S tourney is a bit 'more stacked' without a doubt. Bummer about Nada & co...
Code S is hardly stacked. Especially not compared to Dreamhack.
Code S is at least 10x as stacked as Dreamhack. You have a few star koreans + some star foreigners + some no name/average foreigners. Hardly anywhere as stacked as any korean tournament.
If you're going to pull numbers, be realistic.
Maybe not 10x but the post he was replying to was a lot more idiotic. How many more foreign events do koreans have to sweep before people get the picture? Too bad MKP isn't attending he finally could've won an event -_-. MC/Bomber will still take 1/2 tho unless they meet earlier on. The rest is up for grabs imo
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
Most people who werent wishful thinkers thought mma/losira would dominate mlg. What ended up happening? Same thing will happen at dreamhack. People can keep wishing for koreans to lose in a meaningful tourney but until it actually happens i go off facts not delusions.
Code S is at least 10x as stacked as Dreamhack. You have a few star koreans + some star foreigners + some no name/average foreigners. Hardly anywhere as stacked as any korean tournament.
If you're going to pull numbers, be realistic.
Maybe not 10x but the post he was replying to was a lot more idiotic. How many more foreign events do koreans have to sweep before people get the picture? Too bad MKP isn't attending he finally could've won an event -_-. MC/Bomber will still take 1/2 tho unless they meet earlier on. The rest is up for grabs imo
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
TSL3 was online, which ends that argument.
No, it does not actually. Thanks for trying champ
yes it does, get out troll. 350 ping vs 30 ping.
try it.
ps:
TSL3: everyone: LOLOLOL 'white dudes own korea' Korea: but it was lag everyone: BUT YOU LOST! LOLOLOLOL.
MLG Columbus everyone: wow.... we are way behind the koreans... 1st/2nd/3rd all koreans. koreans only lost to koreans in columbus... wow. Korea: told you it was lag. everyone: *starts thread about people getting owned at homesoil*
Ah, I forgot how every time a Korean loses it is because jetlag/lag/they didnt care. My bad
Looool yeah was it MC who said that(he didn't care) during GSL World Team Championship.
On June 15 2011 02:10 SmoKim wrote: oh man that's a bummer , but it won't change the fact that Dreamhack has the most stacked line-up so far for any tournament
Lol idunno about 'most stacked'. I'd say GSL code S tourney is a bit 'more stacked' without a doubt. Bummer about Nada & co...
Code S is hardly stacked. Especially not compared to Dreamhack.
Code S is at least 10x as stacked as Dreamhack. You have a few star koreans + some star foreigners + some no name/average foreigners. Hardly anywhere as stacked as any korean tournament.
If you're going to pull numbers, be realistic.
Maybe not 10x but the post he was replying to was a lot more idiotic. How many more foreign events do koreans have to sweep before people get the picture? Too bad MKP isn't attending he finally could've won an event -_-. MC/Bomber will still take 1/2 tho unless they meet earlier on. The rest is up for grabs imo
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
Yea take 1 tournament. Look at the rest.
You are in denial if you don't think the Koreans are just better. There is a margin and it's large enough. You're gonna hate sc2 aren't you? Because, this game is still young, when the Koreans fully migrate from bw to sc2, it's over.
On June 15 2011 02:15 Elem wrote: [quote]Code S is hardly stacked. Especially not compared to Dreamhack.
Code S is at least 10x as stacked as Dreamhack. You have a few star koreans + some star foreigners + some no name/average foreigners. Hardly anywhere as stacked as any korean tournament.
If you're going to pull numbers, be realistic.
Maybe not 10x but the post he was replying to was a lot more idiotic. How many more foreign events do koreans have to sweep before people get the picture? Too bad MKP isn't attending he finally could've won an event -_-. MC/Bomber will still take 1/2 tho unless they meet earlier on. The rest is up for grabs imo
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
TSL3 was online, which ends that argument.
No, it does not actually. Thanks for trying champ
yes it does, get out troll. 350 ping vs 30 ping.
try it.
ps:
TSL3: everyone: LOLOLOL 'white dudes own korea' Korea: but it was lag everyone: BUT YOU LOST! LOLOLOLOL.
MLG Columbus everyone: wow.... we are way behind the koreans... 1st/2nd/3rd all koreans. koreans only lost to koreans in columbus... wow. Korea: told you it was lag. everyone: *starts thread about people getting owned at homesoil*
This post is hilarious and it's troll bait about as clear as they come.
On June 15 2011 02:13 FallDownMarigold wrote: [quote] Lol idunno about 'most stacked'. I'd say GSL code S tourney is a bit 'more stacked' without a doubt. Bummer about Nada & co...
Code S is hardly stacked. Especially not compared to Dreamhack.
Code S is at least 10x as stacked as Dreamhack. You have a few star koreans + some star foreigners + some no name/average foreigners. Hardly anywhere as stacked as any korean tournament.
If you're going to pull numbers, be realistic.
Maybe not 10x but the post he was replying to was a lot more idiotic. How many more foreign events do koreans have to sweep before people get the picture? Too bad MKP isn't attending he finally could've won an event -_-. MC/Bomber will still take 1/2 tho unless they meet earlier on. The rest is up for grabs imo
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
TSL3 was online, which ends that argument.
No, it does not actually. Thanks for trying champ
Yes it does, Koreans win every offline tourney they compete in verse foreigners.
Maybe not 10x but the post he was replying to was a lot more idiotic. How many more foreign events do koreans have to sweep before people get the picture? Too bad MKP isn't attending he finally could've won an event -_-. MC/Bomber will still take 1/2 tho unless they meet earlier on. The rest is up for grabs imo
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
TSL3 was online, which ends that argument.
No, it does not actually. Thanks for trying champ
yes it does, get out troll. 350 ping vs 30 ping.
try it.
ps:
TSL3: everyone: LOLOLOL 'white dudes own korea' Korea: but it was lag everyone: BUT YOU LOST! LOLOLOLOL.
MLG Columbus everyone: wow.... we are way behind the koreans... 1st/2nd/3rd all koreans. koreans only lost to koreans in columbus... wow. Korea: told you it was lag. everyone: *starts thread about people getting owned at homesoil*
Ah, I forgot how every time a Korean loses it is because jetlag/lag/they didnt care. My bad
Looool yeah was it MC who said that(he didn't care) during GSL World Team Championship.
People are actually stupid enough to use TSL3 as a marker for korea vs world? The tourny was online, lag filled, etc. Koreans have absolutely destroyed everybody in lan settings. If you still think foreigners are as good because they "stomped" them in TSL3, you may want to see a doctor.
Idk why people can't accept it. If you want the foreigners to get better, accept that they suck and need to work harder and train more efficiently to improve. Keeping the foreigners in denial by giving them a false illusion that they're just as good will provoke them to continue training the way they do now, in which case they'll eventually get blown out of the water like in sc1.
Continue inviting the koreans to the lans and have them stomping the foreigners until they wake up and realize they have to improve to keep up. Saying "nah you're just as good as the koreans just keep on playing 2 hours a day and working 2 other jobs no prob" is only going to make them suck more and more.
edit: oh and about the TSL. Nestea stated in multiple interviews that he no longer wishes to participate in online tournaments because he gets very upset playing in a lag filled environment and losing to players he shouldn't be losing to. You can either be naive and call nestea a liar, or you can accept the fact that TSL was laggy.
On June 15 2011 02:15 Elem wrote: [quote]Code S is hardly stacked. Especially not compared to Dreamhack.
Code S is at least 10x as stacked as Dreamhack. You have a few star koreans + some star foreigners + some no name/average foreigners. Hardly anywhere as stacked as any korean tournament.
If you're going to pull numbers, be realistic.
Maybe not 10x but the post he was replying to was a lot more idiotic. How many more foreign events do koreans have to sweep before people get the picture? Too bad MKP isn't attending he finally could've won an event -_-. MC/Bomber will still take 1/2 tho unless they meet earlier on. The rest is up for grabs imo
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
TSL3 was online, which ends that argument.
No, it does not actually. Thanks for trying champ
Yes it does, Koreans win every offline tourney they compete in verse foreigners.
The Koreans can win most major tournaments and say not win one and it'll be the gospel for these korean haters.
Code S is at least 10x as stacked as Dreamhack. You have a few star koreans + some star foreigners + some no name/average foreigners. Hardly anywhere as stacked as any korean tournament.
If you're going to pull numbers, be realistic.
Maybe not 10x but the post he was replying to was a lot more idiotic. How many more foreign events do koreans have to sweep before people get the picture? Too bad MKP isn't attending he finally could've won an event -_-. MC/Bomber will still take 1/2 tho unless they meet earlier on. The rest is up for grabs imo
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
TSL3 was online, which ends that argument.
No, it does not actually. Thanks for trying champ
Yes it does, Koreans win every offline tourney they compete in verse foreigners.
The Koreans can win most major tournaments and say not win one and it'll be the gospel for these korean haters.
We are not korean haters. All we saying is there is a big differene between Dreamhack and MLG. Trust me you guys is in for a suprice when you see the top of the EU killing nerds left and right
Maybe not 10x but the post he was replying to was a lot more idiotic. How many more foreign events do koreans have to sweep before people get the picture? Too bad MKP isn't attending he finally could've won an event -_-. MC/Bomber will still take 1/2 tho unless they meet earlier on. The rest is up for grabs imo
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
TSL3 was online, which ends that argument.
No, it does not actually. Thanks for trying champ
Yes it does, Koreans win every offline tourney they compete in verse foreigners.
The Koreans can win most major tournaments and say not win one and it'll be the gospel for these korean haters.
We are not korean haters. All we saying is there is a big differene between Dreamhack and MLG. Trust me you guys is in for a suprice when you see the top of the EU killing nerds left and right
Please enlighten us as to what euro player participating in this tourney is better than idra/naniwa/thorzain
On June 15 2011 02:15 Elem wrote: [quote]Code S is hardly stacked. Especially not compared to Dreamhack.
Code S is at least 10x as stacked as Dreamhack. You have a few star koreans + some star foreigners + some no name/average foreigners. Hardly anywhere as stacked as any korean tournament.
If you're going to pull numbers, be realistic.
Maybe not 10x but the post he was replying to was a lot more idiotic. How many more foreign events do koreans have to sweep before people get the picture? Too bad MKP isn't attending he finally could've won an event -_-. MC/Bomber will still take 1/2 tho unless they meet earlier on. The rest is up for grabs imo
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
TSL3 was online, which ends that argument.
No, it does not actually. Thanks for trying champ
Yes it does, Koreans win every offline tourney they compete in verse foreigners.
They didn't win the tournament at the last Dreamhack lan. In fact they didn't even manage to reach the finals. Idra, Naniwa and Thorzain among others have already shown that they can beat Code-S Koreans when playing on the same server from the same country and/or at a live event. The best Koreans might be favored against the best foreigners but a foreigner can still win if he has a good day.
On June 15 2011 02:10 SmoKim wrote: oh man that's a bummer , but it won't change the fact that Dreamhack has the most stacked line-up so far for any tournament
Lol idunno about 'most stacked'. I'd say GSL code S tourney is a bit 'more stacked' without a doubt. Bummer about Nada & co...
Code S is hardly stacked. Especially not compared to Dreamhack.
Code S is at least 10x as stacked as Dreamhack. You have a few star koreans + some star foreigners + some no name/average foreigners. Hardly anywhere as stacked as any korean tournament.
If you're going to pull numbers, be realistic.
Maybe not 10x but the post he was replying to was a lot more idiotic. How many more foreign events do koreans have to sweep before people get the picture? Too bad MKP isn't attending he finally could've won an event -_-. MC/Bomber will still take 1/2 tho unless they meet earlier on. The rest is up for grabs imo
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
Yea take 1 tournament. Look at the rest.
You are in denial if you don't think the Koreans are just better. There is a margin and it's large enough. You're gonna hate sc2 aren't you? Because, this game is still young, when the Koreans fully migrate from bw to sc2, it's over.
But they won't migrate. What MIGHT happen is that the talent will go to SC2, but that will take years and years before it can truly be seen. And top foreigners CAN take games off even the best koreans. It's not like the bw scene, where foreigners would play their hearts out, move to Korea, practice for months and then MAYBE be able to go deep in the B-team tournaments.
Look at Sjow. Do you consider Sjow good? I would think so yes. Do you consider him one of the absolute top foreigners, up there with Idra? No, shouldn't think that. Yet he took a game off July and a game off MMA. That would be unheard of in BW, basically like Jesus coming back to earth to play Starcraft.
I would say that Bomber will most likely make it to the finals and win it. MC is also probably gonna make finals. But remember, if Idra doesn't tilt himself this time around, he looks so unbeatable it's not even funny. BRAT_OK is going too, I don't know if you remember the BW TSL? He came from out of nowhere and took third place. The man is a monster. Maybe Koreans are susceptible to special tactics? The Beast from the East is going too. TT1, HuK, Ret, Jinro, DIMAGA, Naama, all going. I'm prepared to believe we are going to see some close competition this summer.
Maybe not 10x but the post he was replying to was a lot more idiotic. How many more foreign events do koreans have to sweep before people get the picture? Too bad MKP isn't attending he finally could've won an event -_-. MC/Bomber will still take 1/2 tho unless they meet earlier on. The rest is up for grabs imo
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
TSL3 was online, which ends that argument.
No, it does not actually. Thanks for trying champ
Yes it does, Koreans win every offline tourney they compete in verse foreigners.
The Koreans can win most major tournaments and say not win one and it'll be the gospel for these korean haters.
We are not korean haters. All we saying is there is a big differene between Dreamhack and MLG. Trust me you guys is in for a suprice when you see the top of the EU killing nerds left and right
I didn't say euros can't win. There are many talented player from europe, but you make it sound like the Koreans can't compete vs them or win hahahah
On June 15 2011 02:15 Elem wrote: [quote]Code S is hardly stacked. Especially not compared to Dreamhack.
Code S is at least 10x as stacked as Dreamhack. You have a few star koreans + some star foreigners + some no name/average foreigners. Hardly anywhere as stacked as any korean tournament.
If you're going to pull numbers, be realistic.
Maybe not 10x but the post he was replying to was a lot more idiotic. How many more foreign events do koreans have to sweep before people get the picture? Too bad MKP isn't attending he finally could've won an event -_-. MC/Bomber will still take 1/2 tho unless they meet earlier on. The rest is up for grabs imo
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
TSL3 was online, which ends that argument.
No, it does not actually. Thanks for trying champ
yes it does, get out troll. 350 ping vs 30 ping.
try it.
ps:
TSL3: everyone: LOLOLOL 'white dudes own korea' Korea: but it was lag everyone: BUT YOU LOST! LOLOLOLOL.
MLG Columbus everyone: wow.... we are way behind the koreans... 1st/2nd/3rd all koreans. koreans only lost to koreans in columbus... wow. Korea: told you it was lag. everyone: *starts thread about people getting owned at homesoil*
MC played against Thorzain on Europe in TSL3. Also it is not true that Koreans lost only to Koreans in MLG.
On June 15 2011 02:13 FallDownMarigold wrote: [quote] Lol idunno about 'most stacked'. I'd say GSL code S tourney is a bit 'more stacked' without a doubt. Bummer about Nada & co...
Code S is hardly stacked. Especially not compared to Dreamhack.
Code S is at least 10x as stacked as Dreamhack. You have a few star koreans + some star foreigners + some no name/average foreigners. Hardly anywhere as stacked as any korean tournament.
If you're going to pull numbers, be realistic.
Maybe not 10x but the post he was replying to was a lot more idiotic. How many more foreign events do koreans have to sweep before people get the picture? Too bad MKP isn't attending he finally could've won an event -_-. MC/Bomber will still take 1/2 tho unless they meet earlier on. The rest is up for grabs imo
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
Yea take 1 tournament. Look at the rest.
You are in denial if you don't think the Koreans are just better. There is a margin and it's large enough. You're gonna hate sc2 aren't you? Because, this game is still young, when the Koreans fully migrate from bw to sc2, it's over.
But they won't migrate. What MIGHT happen is that the talent will go to SC2, but that will take years and years before it can truly be seen. And top foreigners CAN take games off even the best koreans. It's not like the bw scene, where foreigners would play their hearts out, move to Korea, practice for months and then MAYBE be able to go deep in the B-team tournaments.
Look at Sjow. Do you consider Sjow good? I would think so yes. Do you consider him one of the absolute top foreigners, up there with Idra? No, shouldn't think that. Yet he took a game off July and a game off MMA. That would be unheard of in BW, basically like Jesus coming back to earth to play Starcraft.
I would say that Bomber will most likely make it to the finals and win it. MC is also probably gonna make finals. But remember, if Idra doesn't tilt himself this time around, he looks so unbeatable it's not even funny. BRAT_OK is going too, I don't know if you remember the BW TSL? He came from out of nowhere and took third place. The man is a monster. Maybe Koreans are susceptible to special tactics? The Beast from the East is going too. TT1, HuK, Ret, Jinro, DIMAGA, Naama, all going. I'm prepared to believe we are going to see some close competition this summer.
When starcraft 1 first came out, it took awhile for the Koreans to fully get into it. For some reasons, however once they did, it changed the game forever. The koreans will eventually fully migrate to sc2. It's all about the money, guys like flash, jaedong make too much money in bw to move to sc2.
It's not a coincidence guys like MC who are absolutely beastly in sc2, were just backups in bw. Old legends like Nada and boxer, who I might say surprised me, as they are more than competitive in sc2, were just totally phased out in bw. The best talent is still in bw was my point.
BTW, I like many non korean players. I just stick up for the koreans, because of the blatant bias hate against them.
All the non korean players you mentioned are good, but TT1? He sucks and he will be an afterthought when this game is more mature.
Code S is at least 10x as stacked as Dreamhack. You have a few star koreans + some star foreigners + some no name/average foreigners. Hardly anywhere as stacked as any korean tournament.
If you're going to pull numbers, be realistic.
Maybe not 10x but the post he was replying to was a lot more idiotic. How many more foreign events do koreans have to sweep before people get the picture? Too bad MKP isn't attending he finally could've won an event -_-. MC/Bomber will still take 1/2 tho unless they meet earlier on. The rest is up for grabs imo
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
TSL3 was online, which ends that argument.
No, it does not actually. Thanks for trying champ
yes it does, get out troll. 350 ping vs 30 ping.
try it.
ps:
TSL3: everyone: LOLOLOL 'white dudes own korea' Korea: but it was lag everyone: BUT YOU LOST! LOLOLOLOL.
MLG Columbus everyone: wow.... we are way behind the koreans... 1st/2nd/3rd all koreans. koreans only lost to koreans in columbus... wow. Korea: told you it was lag. everyone: *starts thread about people getting owned at homesoil*
MC played against Thorzain on Europe in TSL3. Also it is not true that Koreans lost only to Koreans in MLG.
Koreans were knocked out only by other Koreans is I think what he meant.
The large difference between this tournament and MLG when it comes to Korea vs Foreigners is not that the best foreigners at this tournament are better but that there are a lot more foreigners that are able to take games of Koreans. At MLG there were maybe three or four foreigners that had a reasonable chance of beating the Koreans in a bo-series. As it turned out, none of them did when it mattered.
At this event there are at least twice as many foreigners present who threaten the Koreans. The average level of top foreigners at this event might not be higher than it was at MLG but since there are more good foreigners, the chance that at least a few of them will take games of Korean, stop Koreans from taking the top 3 or even for a foreigner to win, is much higher.
Maybe not 10x but the post he was replying to was a lot more idiotic. How many more foreign events do koreans have to sweep before people get the picture? Too bad MKP isn't attending he finally could've won an event -_-. MC/Bomber will still take 1/2 tho unless they meet earlier on. The rest is up for grabs imo
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
TSL3 was online, which ends that argument.
No, it does not actually. Thanks for trying champ
Yes it does, Koreans win every offline tourney they compete in verse foreigners.
The Koreans can win most major tournaments and say not win one and it'll be the gospel for these korean haters.
We are not korean haters. All we saying is there is a big differene between Dreamhack and MLG. Trust me you guys is in for a suprice when you see the top of the EU killing nerds left and right
Please enlighten us as to what euro player participating in this tourney is better than idra/naniwa/thorzain
You'll be waiting forever. As you just reminded him there is no talent in europe better than thorzain/naniwa/idra at the moment.
On June 15 2011 02:13 FallDownMarigold wrote: [quote] Lol idunno about 'most stacked'. I'd say GSL code S tourney is a bit 'more stacked' without a doubt. Bummer about Nada & co...
Code S is hardly stacked. Especially not compared to Dreamhack.
Code S is at least 10x as stacked as Dreamhack. You have a few star koreans + some star foreigners + some no name/average foreigners. Hardly anywhere as stacked as any korean tournament.
If you're going to pull numbers, be realistic.
Maybe not 10x but the post he was replying to was a lot more idiotic. How many more foreign events do koreans have to sweep before people get the picture? Too bad MKP isn't attending he finally could've won an event -_-. MC/Bomber will still take 1/2 tho unless they meet earlier on. The rest is up for grabs imo
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
Are people still actually arguing that foreigners are as good as Koreans? It was stupid and wrong two weeks ago...then MLG happened.
I swear Koreans could win the next three Dreamhack/MLG events and there woiuld still be muppets thinking there is no gap.
As for TSL, you cannot play properly at 500ms. I don't think some people have ever actually tried to game in those conditions, you cannot micro at all, you can sort of macro but it's way out of rhythm. As Idra said, all cross server results are worthless.
We are not korean haters. All we saying is there is a big differene between Dreamhack and MLG. Trust me you guys is in for a suprice when you see the top of the EU killing nerds left and right
Who is the top of EU? People like Sjow and Morrow, who got owned at MLG?
On June 15 2011 02:10 SmoKim wrote: oh man that's a bummer , but it won't change the fact that Dreamhack has the most stacked line-up so far for any tournament
Lol idunno about 'most stacked'. I'd say GSL code S tourney is a bit 'more stacked' without a doubt. Bummer about Nada & co...
Code S is hardly stacked. Especially not compared to Dreamhack.
This is a joke right?
GSL Code S has MVP, MKP, MC, Bomber, Nestea, July, Nada . . . plus a dozen more Koreans that can manhandle most of the "top" foreigners at Dreamhack.
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
TSL3 was online, which ends that argument.
No, it does not actually. Thanks for trying champ
Yes it does, Koreans win every offline tourney they compete in verse foreigners.
The Koreans can win most major tournaments and say not win one and it'll be the gospel for these korean haters.
We are not korean haters. All we saying is there is a big differene between Dreamhack and MLG. Trust me you guys is in for a suprice when you see the top of the EU killing nerds left and right
Please enlighten us as to what euro player participating in this tourney is better than idra/naniwa/thorzain
You'll be waiting forever. As you just reminded him there is no talent in europe better than thorzain/naniwa/idra at the moment.
There are players on similar level (it is hard to judge exactly) in Europe. And if you pick specific matchups you will find a lot more players like that.
We are not korean haters. All we saying is there is a big differene between Dreamhack and MLG. Trust me you guys is in for a suprice when you see the top of the EU killing nerds left and right
Who is the top of EU? People like Sjow and Morrow, who got owned in MLG?
Stupid isn't it? The majority of the best EU players were at MLG (Naniwa, Thorzain, Sjow, Morrow, Ret, TLO) and they were beaten just as easilly as the North Americans.
Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying
On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote: Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying
On June 15 2011 02:13 FallDownMarigold wrote: [quote] Lol idunno about 'most stacked'. I'd say GSL code S tourney is a bit 'more stacked' without a doubt. Bummer about Nada & co...
Code S is hardly stacked. Especially not compared to Dreamhack.
Code S is at least 10x as stacked as Dreamhack. You have a few star koreans + some star foreigners + some no name/average foreigners. Hardly anywhere as stacked as any korean tournament.
If you're going to pull numbers, be realistic.
Maybe not 10x but the post he was replying to was a lot more idiotic. How many more foreign events do koreans have to sweep before people get the picture? Too bad MKP isn't attending he finally could've won an event -_-. MC/Bomber will still take 1/2 tho unless they meet earlier on. The rest is up for grabs imo
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
Yea take 1 tournament. Look at the rest.
You are in denial if you don't think the Koreans are just better. There is a margin and it's large enough. You're gonna hate sc2 aren't you? Because, this game is still young, when the Koreans fully migrate from bw to sc2, it's over.
Look at Sjow. Do you consider Sjow good? I would think so yes. Do you consider him one of the absolute top foreigners, up there with Idra? No, shouldn't think that. Yet he took a game off July and a game off MMA. That would be unheard of in BW, basically like Jesus coming back to earth to play Starcraft.
advokate vs jaedong, pj vs savior and effort, f91 vs idra (lol)? upsets happen even when the skill gap is as big as foreign vs korean in broodwar. no one would realistically claim that PJ was capable of winning an OSL even though he managed to beat the undisputed best player in the world in his prime in a bo3. i fully expect an all korean top 3, especially with the double elimination brackets at dreamhack.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
TSL3 was online, which ends that argument.
No, it does not actually. Thanks for trying champ
Yes it does, Koreans win every offline tourney they compete in verse foreigners.
The Koreans can win most major tournaments and say not win one and it'll be the gospel for these korean haters.
We are not korean haters. All we saying is there is a big differene between Dreamhack and MLG. Trust me you guys is in for a suprice when you see the top of the EU killing nerds left and right
Please enlighten us as to what euro player participating in this tourney is better than idra/naniwa/thorzain
You'll be waiting forever. As you just reminded him there is no talent in europe better than thorzain/naniwa/idra at the moment.
There are players on similar level (it is hard to judge exactly) in Europe. And if you pick specific matchups you will find a lot more players like that.
Ok name them. The fact that you didn't name one is telling. The only notable european players not at MLG were dimaga, whitera, maybe kas and a few others. but none of them can you say are better than naniwa, idra, thorzain.
On June 15 2011 04:30 CoR wrote: i really hope tehy invite Ace ! He is such a beast in foreign tournaments
i dont understand Ace, isnt he like code a/b? yet he wins like 90% of his games vs foreigners i also hope they invite him, alos, why do nestea and mvp ect never get invited o.o he said in interview that he would love to go to foreign tournaments
I wonder what will happen when Koreans begin to join these international events more and more, and become more familiar with the Western players and their playstyles and begin to prepare builds for the ones they deem dangerous... So far, they've been successful despite being largely uninformed about their opponents, while the foreigners all know exactly how the Koreans play.
We are not korean haters. All we saying is there is a big differene between Dreamhack and MLG. Trust me you guys is in for a suprice when you see the top of the EU killing nerds left and right
Who is the top of EU? People like Sjow and Morrow, who got owned at MLG?
SjoW almost beat MMA. He owned him in game 1 and he was ahead in game 3. MMA then made a comeback. The games were really even. He also took a game of July. SjoW isn't the best foreigner, not even the best terran. But to say that he got owned at MLG is an unfair lie. I didn't see the games that MorroW lost so I can't comment on those.
On June 15 2011 02:15 Elem wrote: [quote]Code S is hardly stacked. Especially not compared to Dreamhack.
Code S is at least 10x as stacked as Dreamhack. You have a few star koreans + some star foreigners + some no name/average foreigners. Hardly anywhere as stacked as any korean tournament.
If you're going to pull numbers, be realistic.
Maybe not 10x but the post he was replying to was a lot more idiotic. How many more foreign events do koreans have to sweep before people get the picture? Too bad MKP isn't attending he finally could've won an event -_-. MC/Bomber will still take 1/2 tho unless they meet earlier on. The rest is up for grabs imo
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
Yea take 1 tournament. Look at the rest.
You are in denial if you don't think the Koreans are just better. There is a margin and it's large enough. You're gonna hate sc2 aren't you? Because, this game is still young, when the Koreans fully migrate from bw to sc2, it's over.
Look at Sjow. Do you consider Sjow good? I would think so yes. Do you consider him one of the absolute top foreigners, up there with Idra? No, shouldn't think that. Yet he took a game off July and a game off MMA. That would be unheard of in BW, basically like Jesus coming back to earth to play Starcraft.
advokate vs jaedong, pj vs savior and effort, f91 vs idra (lol)? upsets happen even when the skill gap is as big as foreign vs korean in broodwar. no one would realistically claim that PJ was capable of winning an OSL even though he managed to beat the undisputed best player in the world in his prime in a bo3. i fully expect an all korean top 3, especially with the double elimination brackets at dreamhack.
Chinese didn't count as foreigners in BW. Players like f91 and PJ were complete complete beasts.
On June 15 2011 04:30 CoR wrote: i really hope tehy invite Ace ! He is such a beast in foreign tournaments
i dont understand Ace, isnt he like code a/b? yet he wins like 90% of his games vs foreigners i also hope they invite him, alos, why do nestea and mvp ect never get invited o.o he said in interview that he would love to go to foreign tournaments
I would love for nestea and mvp to come, those guys are monsters.
I think Ace might be more inclined to come to foreign tournaments, because he's never in any situations where he can win alot of money in Korea.
We are not korean haters. All we saying is there is a big differene between Dreamhack and MLG. Trust me you guys is in for a suprice when you see the top of the EU killing nerds left and right
Who is the top of EU? People like Sjow and Morrow, who got owned in MLG?
Stupid isn't it? The majority of the best EU players were at MLG (Naniwa, Thorzain, Sjow, Morrow, Ret, TLO) and they were beaten just as easilly as the North Americans.
there are plenty of skilled players in EU (USA people never hear about them because they usually play smaller online tournaments plenty of them wont be on dh either and thats a shame because they often beat the big names (nerchio,stephano comes in mind)
On June 15 2011 04:41 DrainX wrote: SjoW almost beat MMA. He owned him in game 1 and he was ahead in game 3. MMA then made a comeback. The games were really even. He also took a game of July. SjoW isn't the best foreigner, not even the best terran. But to say that he got owned at MLG is an unfair lie. I didn't see the games that MorroW lost so I can't comment on those.
Didn't Sjow win a lot of EU tournaments? Isn't that why he's well known?
He lost to all 3 Koreans at MLG, MMA, July and Moon.
In the game he won against July, he did so by going 2 port banshee, and catching July off-guard, who was sitting there trying to understand why Sjow hadn't gged after losing almost all his SCVs. July basically stopped scouting and thought he had the game won, and paid for that mistake. It was a fluke.
On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote: Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying
Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins.
Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level.
And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference?
We are not korean haters. All we saying is there is a big differene between Dreamhack and MLG. Trust me you guys is in for a suprice when you see the top of the EU killing nerds left and right
Who is the top of EU? People like Sjow and Morrow, who got owned at MLG?
SjoW almost beat MMA. He owned him in game 1 and he was ahead in game 3. MMA then made a comeback. The games were really even. He also took a game of July. SjoW isn't the best foreigner, not even the best terran. But to say that he got owned at MLG is an unfair lie. I didn't see the games that MorroW lost so I can't comment on those.
That's MMA for you. The opponent will own him but he will also come out victorious. Most games I've seen him win was when he's been behind.
On June 15 2011 02:13 FallDownMarigold wrote: [quote] Lol idunno about 'most stacked'. I'd say GSL code S tourney is a bit 'more stacked' without a doubt. Bummer about Nada & co...
Code S is hardly stacked. Especially not compared to Dreamhack.
Code S is at least 10x as stacked as Dreamhack. You have a few star koreans + some star foreigners + some no name/average foreigners. Hardly anywhere as stacked as any korean tournament.
If you're going to pull numbers, be realistic.
Maybe not 10x but the post he was replying to was a lot more idiotic. How many more foreign events do koreans have to sweep before people get the picture? Too bad MKP isn't attending he finally could've won an event -_-. MC/Bomber will still take 1/2 tho unless they meet earlier on. The rest is up for grabs imo
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
Yea take 1 tournament. Look at the rest.
You are in denial if you don't think the Koreans are just better. There is a margin and it's large enough. You're gonna hate sc2 aren't you? Because, this game is still young, when the Koreans fully migrate from bw to sc2, it's over.
And top foreigners CAN take games off even the best koreans.
you know what? MKP and MMA got 0-2ed yesterday, by random no-name Koreans
so which one do you pick?
1. SC2 is still very volatile. 2. Sjow is even worse than random Koreans who are not even in code-a.
We are not korean haters. All we saying is there is a big differene between Dreamhack and MLG. Trust me you guys is in for a suprice when you see the top of the EU killing nerds left and right
Who is the top of EU? People like Sjow and Morrow, who got owned at MLG?
SjoW almost beat MMA. He owned him in game 1 and he was ahead in game 3. MMA then made a comeback. The games were really even. He also took a game of July. SjoW isn't the best foreigner, not even the best terran. But to say that he got owned at MLG is an unfair lie. I didn't see the games that MorroW lost so I can't comment on those.
He lost all three games versus Koreans.
Losing is losing. We don't say MC did well versus Thorzain at TSL or Nestea vs Dimaga in GSL, if you lose you lose, end of.
On June 15 2011 02:15 Elem wrote: [quote]Code S is hardly stacked. Especially not compared to Dreamhack.
Code S is at least 10x as stacked as Dreamhack. You have a few star koreans + some star foreigners + some no name/average foreigners. Hardly anywhere as stacked as any korean tournament.
If you're going to pull numbers, be realistic.
Maybe not 10x but the post he was replying to was a lot more idiotic. How many more foreign events do koreans have to sweep before people get the picture? Too bad MKP isn't attending he finally could've won an event -_-. MC/Bomber will still take 1/2 tho unless they meet earlier on. The rest is up for grabs imo
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
Yea take 1 tournament. Look at the rest.
You are in denial if you don't think the Koreans are just better. There is a margin and it's large enough. You're gonna hate sc2 aren't you? Because, this game is still young, when the Koreans fully migrate from bw to sc2, it's over.
And top foreigners CAN take games off even the best koreans.
you know what? MKP and MMA got 0-2ed yesterday, by random no-name Koreans
so which one do you pick?
1. SC2 is still very volatile. 2. Sjow is even worse than random Koreans who are not even in code-a.
A lot of random Koreans in Code B are extremely good.
On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote: Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying
Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins.
Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level.
And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference?
Dude, don't confuse him with facts. FActs aren't relevant in these haters' worlds.
They don't realize how good the pros are from bw, they are in world of hurt when the Koreans fully switch to sc2 from bw.
Code S is at least 10x as stacked as Dreamhack. You have a few star koreans + some star foreigners + some no name/average foreigners. Hardly anywhere as stacked as any korean tournament.
If you're going to pull numbers, be realistic.
Maybe not 10x but the post he was replying to was a lot more idiotic. How many more foreign events do koreans have to sweep before people get the picture? Too bad MKP isn't attending he finally could've won an event -_-. MC/Bomber will still take 1/2 tho unless they meet earlier on. The rest is up for grabs imo
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
Yea take 1 tournament. Look at the rest.
You are in denial if you don't think the Koreans are just better. There is a margin and it's large enough. You're gonna hate sc2 aren't you? Because, this game is still young, when the Koreans fully migrate from bw to sc2, it's over.
Look at Sjow. Do you consider Sjow good? I would think so yes. Do you consider him one of the absolute top foreigners, up there with Idra? No, shouldn't think that. Yet he took a game off July and a game off MMA. That would be unheard of in BW, basically like Jesus coming back to earth to play Starcraft.
advokate vs jaedong, pj vs savior and effort, f91 vs idra (lol)? upsets happen even when the skill gap is as big as foreign vs korean in broodwar. no one would realistically claim that PJ was capable of winning an OSL even though he managed to beat the undisputed best player in the world in his prime in a bo3. i fully expect an all korean top 3, especially with the double elimination brackets at dreamhack.
Chinese didn't count as foreigners in BW. Players like f91 and PJ were complete complete beasts.
that's irrelevant. they're still complete underdogs compared to even B-teamers; pj and lx went to SKT1 for a year and accomplished nothing except getting raped in offline prelims. even though pj managed to upset savior, no one would use that as support for an argument that pj would be able to win a starleague. similarly, even though july and mma each managed to lose a game to sjow, that's not compelling evidence for sjow being able to win a tournament with 5 or more players of MMA's caliber in it.
Code S is at least 10x as stacked as Dreamhack. You have a few star koreans + some star foreigners + some no name/average foreigners. Hardly anywhere as stacked as any korean tournament.
If you're going to pull numbers, be realistic.
Maybe not 10x but the post he was replying to was a lot more idiotic. How many more foreign events do koreans have to sweep before people get the picture? Too bad MKP isn't attending he finally could've won an event -_-. MC/Bomber will still take 1/2 tho unless they meet earlier on. The rest is up for grabs imo
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
Yea take 1 tournament. Look at the rest.
You are in denial if you don't think the Koreans are just better. There is a margin and it's large enough. You're gonna hate sc2 aren't you? Because, this game is still young, when the Koreans fully migrate from bw to sc2, it's over.
Look at Sjow. Do you consider Sjow good? I would think so yes. Do you consider him one of the absolute top foreigners, up there with Idra? No, shouldn't think that. Yet he took a game off July and a game off MMA. That would be unheard of in BW, basically like Jesus coming back to earth to play Starcraft.
advokate vs jaedong, pj vs savior and effort, f91 vs idra (lol)? upsets happen even when the skill gap is as big as foreign vs korean in broodwar. no one would realistically claim that PJ was capable of winning an OSL even though he managed to beat the undisputed best player in the world in his prime in a bo3. i fully expect an all korean top 3, especially with the double elimination brackets at dreamhack.
Chinese didn't count as foreigners in BW. Players like f91 and PJ were complete complete beasts.
that's irrelevant. they're still complete underdogs compared to even B-teamers; pj and lx went to SKT1 for a year and accomplished nothing except getting raped in offline prelims. even though pj managed to upset savior, no one would use that as support for an argument that pj would be able to win a starleague. similarly, even though july and mma each managed to lose a game to sjow, that's not compelling evidence for sjow being able to win a tournament with 5 or more players of MMA's caliber in it.
On June 15 2011 03:53 Maliris wrote: [quote] nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
TSL3 was online, which ends that argument.
No, it does not actually. Thanks for trying champ
Yes it does, Koreans win every offline tourney they compete in verse foreigners.
The Koreans can win most major tournaments and say not win one and it'll be the gospel for these korean haters.
We are not korean haters. All we saying is there is a big differene between Dreamhack and MLG. Trust me you guys is in for a suprice when you see the top of the EU killing nerds left and right
Please enlighten us as to what euro player participating in this tourney is better than idra/naniwa/thorzain
You'll be waiting forever. As you just reminded him there is no talent in europe better than thorzain/naniwa/idra at the moment.
There are players on similar level (it is hard to judge exactly) in Europe. And if you pick specific matchups you will find a lot more players like that.
Ok name them. The fact that you didn't name one is telling. The only notable european players not at MLG were dimaga, whitera, maybe kas and a few others. but none of them can you say are better than naniwa, idra, thorzain.
I did not say better, I said similar level. It is hard to judge who is better as they are close. Dimaga might be one, it is hard to know as he does not participate in a lot of offline tournaments recently, but he definitely has the potential. White-ra PvT definitely and PvP maybe(who knows after the patch) I would say similar level to Naniwa, PvZ drags him down recently. Morrow definitely close(he should maybe consider off-race for ZvZs). Ret definitely belongs there. Second thing is that good is not the same as notable. There are players who are not well known like Nerchio for example. Then you have players like SaSe who defeated Naniwa twice recently, HasuObs, Socke (his PvP is/was recently I would say best in Europe) or Kas.
Again I did not say those players are better, but they are close or the same level as those two (Idra is American). Naniwa and Thorzain are not winning all, not even majority I would say, EU tournaments they enter.
We are not korean haters. All we saying is there is a big differene between Dreamhack and MLG. Trust me you guys is in for a suprice when you see the top of the EU killing nerds left and right
Who is the top of EU? People like Sjow and Morrow, who got owned at MLG?
SjoW almost beat MMA. He owned him in game 1 and he was ahead in game 3. MMA then made a comeback. The games were really even. He also took a game of July. SjoW isn't the best foreigner, not even the best terran. But to say that he got owned at MLG is an unfair lie. I didn't see the games that MorroW lost so I can't comment on those.
He lost all three games versus Koreans.
Losing is losing. We don't say MC did well versus Thorzain at TSL or Nestea vs Dimaga in GSL, if you lose you lose, end of.
Of course MC did well against Thorzain at TSL, can't two players play a good game?
On June 15 2011 04:41 DrainX wrote: SjoW almost beat MMA. He owned him in game 1 and he was ahead in game 3. MMA then made a comeback. The games were really even. He also took a game of July. SjoW isn't the best foreigner, not even the best terran. But to say that he got owned at MLG is an unfair lie. I didn't see the games that MorroW lost so I can't comment on those.
Didn't Sjow win a lot of EU tournaments? Isn't that why he's well known?
He lost to all 3 Koreans at MLG, MMA, July and Moon.
In the game he won against July, he did so by going 2 port banshee, and catching July off-guard, who was sitting there trying to understand why Sjow hadn't gged after losing almost all his SCVs. July basically stopped scouting and thought he had the game won, and paid for that mistake. It was a fluke.
Yeah. SjoW has won more tournaments than any other foreigner. He has earned more money from tournaments than any other foreigner. He has in fact earned more tournament winnings than, July, Inca, Ace or Nada in SC2. He is not as dominant as he used to be though.
Yeah he did lose to all three Koreans. So what? TvZ is his weakest matchup by far and if MMA had not dropped and basetraded with him at that exact moment in game 3, he would have beaten MMA, the winner of MLG. I'm not saying that he or any other foreigner is better than the top Koreans. All I am saying is that there are foreigners that can beat Koreans and are able to win tournaments even if Koreans are involved.
Just look at Thorzain as another example. He is currently 5-6 in matches vs MC. All games played with low ping when both people were in the same country. MC is by many considered the best Korean protoss in the world. If playing 5-6 vs him doesn't prove that foreigners can compete, I don't know what would. That is a better score than the majority of Koreans in Code-S have vs MC. It is a better score than every other Korean coming to Dreamhack other than Bomber has. Bomber vs MC is 5-5.
Yes it does, Koreans win every offline tourney they compete in verse foreigners.
The Koreans can win most major tournaments and say not win one and it'll be the gospel for these korean haters.
We are not korean haters. All we saying is there is a big differene between Dreamhack and MLG. Trust me you guys is in for a suprice when you see the top of the EU killing nerds left and right
Please enlighten us as to what euro player participating in this tourney is better than idra/naniwa/thorzain
You'll be waiting forever. As you just reminded him there is no talent in europe better than thorzain/naniwa/idra at the moment.
There are players on similar level (it is hard to judge exactly) in Europe. And if you pick specific matchups you will find a lot more players like that.
Ok name them. The fact that you didn't name one is telling. The only notable european players not at MLG were dimaga, whitera, maybe kas and a few others. but none of them can you say are better than naniwa, idra, thorzain.
I did not say better, I said similar level. It is hard to judge who is better as they are close. Dimaga might be one, it is hard to know as he does not participate in a lot of offline tournaments recently, but he definitely has the potential. White-ra PvT definitely and PvP maybe(who knows after the patch) I would say similar level to Naniwa, PvZ drags him down recently. Morrow definitely close(he should maybe consider off-race for ZvZs). Ret definitely belongs there. Second thing is that good is not the same as notable. There are players who are not well known like Nerchio for example. Then you have players like SaSe who defeated Naniwa twice recently, HasuObs, Socke (his PvP is/was recently I would say best in Europe) or Kas.
Again I did not say those players are better, but they are close or the same level as those two (Idra is American). Naniwa and Thorzain are not winning all, not even majority I would say, EU tournaments they enter.
And you ignore that the best Koreans weren't there either.
We are not korean haters. All we saying is there is a big differene between Dreamhack and MLG. Trust me you guys is in for a suprice when you see the top of the EU killing nerds left and right
Who is the top of EU? People like Sjow and Morrow, who got owned at MLG?
SjoW almost beat MMA. He owned him in game 1 and he was ahead in game 3. MMA then made a comeback. The games were really even. He also took a game of July. SjoW isn't the best foreigner, not even the best terran. But to say that he got owned at MLG is an unfair lie. I didn't see the games that MorroW lost so I can't comment on those.
Morrow also did not get owned. He lost a series to Fenix in Open Bracket. And then unfortunately ZvZ with I think Slush(?). He is much better than a lot of people who finished higher in MLG. If he was in the pool play he would most likely end up much higher.
On June 15 2011 02:10 SmoKim wrote: oh man that's a bummer , but it won't change the fact that Dreamhack has the most stacked line-up so far for any tournament
Lol idunno about 'most stacked'. I'd say GSL code S tourney is a bit 'more stacked' without a doubt. Bummer about Nada & co...
Code S is hardly stacked. Especially not compared to Dreamhack.
LOLWAT.
The only tournament that was stacked like Code S is... was TSL. If my stacked you mean overall skill that is. Because I'm pretty sure majority of Code S players could go to any Foreigner tournament and win it; if there wasn't another Korean that beat them.
Keep in mind that every single SC2 LAN tournament that had at least one Korean attending it has been won by a Korean except for DH Winter.
If you mean stacked like by player popularity, sure. TSL might still have it beat though, but sure.
MC won DH winter he beat White-ra 3-2 in the finals.
No he didn't it was won by Naama over Mana in the finals.
On June 15 2011 04:54 DrainX wrote: Just look at Thorzain as another example. He is currently 5-6 in matches vs MC. All games played with low ping when both people were in the same country. MC is by many considered the best Korean protoss in the world. If playing 5-6 vs him doesn't prove that foreigners can compete, I don't know what would.
MC's worst match by far is PvT and TvP is definitely Thorzain's best and still MC is ahead. No one thinks that gap is as big as Brood War or that foreigners can never beat Koreans, just that there is a noticable difference between top Koreans and top foreigners and that Koreans have far more depth than the foreign scene does.
On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote: Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying
Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins.
Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level.
And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference?
you could also include the earlier MLGs.
MLG DC: idra, has lived almost 3 years in korea at this point raleigh had no koreans MLG Dallas '10: jinro, has been training in korea since start of retail MLG Dallas '11 is the only one where a player who hadn't trained in korea won, and at this point idra (the only such player in attendance there) had already left korea for a few months
On June 15 2011 04:54 DrainX wrote: Just look at Thorzain as another example. He is currently 5-6 in matches vs MC. All games played with low ping when both people were in the same country. MC is by many considered the best Korean protoss in the world. If playing 5-6 vs him doesn't prove that foreigners can compete, I don't know what would.
MC's worst match by far is PvT and TvP is definitely Thorzain's best and still MC is ahead. No one thinks that gap is as big as Brood War or that foreigners can never beat Koreans, just that there is a noticable difference between top Koreans and top foreigners and that Koreans have far more depth than the foreign scene does.
Nah, after he lost to Thorzain and Polt his PvT has become alot better
On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote: Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying
Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins.
Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level.
And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference?
Ill start by saying that Koreans are better, I just do not think that the difference is like terribly high. I think they are mostly more consistent, foreigners just show some great games a then some terrible ones(for that level of play) and in the tournament that plays a big role.
Now for your argument. In Copenhagen games, recently-code-S player TheWind gets beaten quite early. Hmm, might that mean that code S is (now it is much better, but I think the observation still holds) not so far from the foreigner level and has rather big difference between the best and worst players ? Whatever people say MC vs Thorzain was played without latency and yet he lost Bo7 (I think, maybe Bo5). Also TOP is not exactly a bad player, top4 in GSL ST and playing pretty well in every GSL.
So yep, top Koreans are better, but code S is definitely not some untouchable group of players that no foreigner can touch. It is not like there are no foreigners in code S and HuK definitely did not yet show that he can be considered one the very top foreigners.
On June 15 2011 03:56 Maliris wrote: [quote] No, it does not actually. Thanks for trying champ
Yes it does, Koreans win every offline tourney they compete in verse foreigners.
The Koreans can win most major tournaments and say not win one and it'll be the gospel for these korean haters.
We are not korean haters. All we saying is there is a big differene between Dreamhack and MLG. Trust me you guys is in for a suprice when you see the top of the EU killing nerds left and right
Please enlighten us as to what euro player participating in this tourney is better than idra/naniwa/thorzain
You'll be waiting forever. As you just reminded him there is no talent in europe better than thorzain/naniwa/idra at the moment.
There are players on similar level (it is hard to judge exactly) in Europe. And if you pick specific matchups you will find a lot more players like that.
Ok name them. The fact that you didn't name one is telling. The only notable european players not at MLG were dimaga, whitera, maybe kas and a few others. but none of them can you say are better than naniwa, idra, thorzain.
I did not say better, I said similar level. It is hard to judge who is better as they are close. Dimaga might be one, it is hard to know as he does not participate in a lot of offline tournaments recently, but he definitely has the potential. White-ra PvT definitely and PvP maybe(who knows after the patch) I would say similar level to Naniwa, PvZ drags him down recently. Morrow definitely close(he should maybe consider off-race for ZvZs). Ret definitely belongs there. Second thing is that good is not the same as notable. There are players who are not well known like Nerchio for example. Then you have players like SaSe who defeated Naniwa twice recently, HasuObs, Socke (his PvP is/was recently I would say best in Europe) or Kas.
Again I did not say those players are better, but they are close or the same level as those two (Idra is American). Naniwa and Thorzain are not winning all, not even majority I would say, EU tournaments they enter.
And you ignore that the best Koreans weren't there either.
Losira, MC, MMA, July, Moon is great.
But if it was MC, MMA, MVP, Bomber, Nestea....
Do you actually read what you reply to ? What has your reply anything to do with my point that there are European players that are as good or close as Thorzain or Naniwa ? Why are you talking about Koreans, what do they have to do with it ?
Im not convinced this is the koreans fault. I think that this could also be Dreamhacks fault for stating that the players would come to raise more intrest before they knew for sure if they would be available. I dont know if this is the case but i wouldn't blame everything on the koreans.
On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote: Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying
Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins.
Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level.
And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference?
Ill start by saying that Koreans are better, I just do not think that the difference is like terribly high. I think they are mostly more consistent, foreigners just show some great games a then some terrible ones(for that level of play) and in the tournament that plays a big role.
Now for your argument. In Copenhagen games, recently-code-S player TheWind gets beaten quite early. Hmm, might that mean that code S is (now it is much better, but I think the observation still holds) not so far from the foreigner level and has rather big difference between the best and worst players ? Whatever people say MC vs Thorzain was played without latency and yet he lost Bo7 (I think, maybe Bo5). Also TOP is not exactly a bad player, top4 in GSL ST and playing pretty well in every GSL.
So yep, top Koreans are better, but code S is definitely not some untouchable group of players that no foreigner can touch. It is not like there are no foreigners in code S and HuK definitely did not yet show that he can be considered one the very top foreigners.
Back then TOP definitely wasn't at that level. The Thorzain/MC game was a best of 5. Another thing rather mentioned is that the winning game for Thorzain involved a strategy so overpowered Blizzard nerfed it very soon after, it's pretty rare for Blizzard to do that so fast.
Code S is still very much in transition from throwing out all the players not good enough and letting the new blood in. So there's still plenty not so great Code S players. We'll see soon enough whether Thorzain and Naniwa have what it takes.
On June 15 2011 05:12 mki wrote: Looks like XlorD is replacing one of them :p --- I wrote the news for MYM but here's proof it's official and his ticket is bought!
On June 15 2011 05:20 Weson wrote: Im not convinced this is the koreans fault. I think that this could also be Dreamhacks fault for stating that the players would come to raise more intrest before they knew for sure if they would be available. I dont know if this is the case but i wouldn't blame everything on the koreans.
Everyone who wanted to go to dreamhack had to apply first. If the Koreans applied and Dreamhack then accepted their invitation, I don't think we can blame Dreamhack if they then don't come.
On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote: Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying
Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins.
Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level.
And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference?
By the way, TOP got barely knocked out by Naama 2-1 who then went on to win the tournament, and Naama said afterwards that he beat TOP because TOP used a TvT opening that he used a lot months before and therefore knew how to beat it (some stuff about quick air control).
InCa is of course a very underdeveloped player. He has a killer PvP, but his PvT is cheese and all-in ^20 and his PvZ ... well I don't think there's much to say.
InCa got knocked out by TOP btw.
So yeah, foreigners get raped wall to wall by Koreans, and there's literally not a single counter-example.
On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote: Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying
Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins.
Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level.
And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference?
Ill start by saying that Koreans are better, I just do not think that the difference is like terribly high. I think they are mostly more consistent, foreigners just show some great games a then some terrible ones(for that level of play) and in the tournament that plays a big role.
Now for your argument. In Copenhagen games, recently-code-S player TheWind gets beaten quite early. Hmm, might that mean that code S is (now it is much better, but I think the observation still holds) not so far from the foreigner level and has rather big difference between the best and worst players ? Whatever people say MC vs Thorzain was played without latency and yet he lost Bo7 (I think, maybe Bo5). Also TOP is not exactly a bad player, top4 in GSL ST and playing pretty well in every GSL.
So yep, top Koreans are better, but code S is definitely not some untouchable group of players that no foreigner can touch. It is not like there are no foreigners in code S and HuK definitely did not yet show that he can be considered one the very top foreigners.
It's not like foreigners can touch. more like SC2 is still volatile.
as I said, MMA and MKP got 0-2ed by no name Koreans yesterday. (Sage beat MMA, JYP beat MKP)
btw, is there any no-name EU players who can 2-0 MKP,MMA in EU?
On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote: Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying
Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins.
Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level.
And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference?
Ill start by saying that Koreans are better, I just do not think that the difference is like terribly high. I think they are mostly more consistent, foreigners just show some great games a then some terrible ones(for that level of play) and in the tournament that plays a big role.
Now for your argument. In Copenhagen games, recently-code-S player TheWind gets beaten quite early. Hmm, might that mean that code S is (now it is much better, but I think the observation still holds) not so far from the foreigner level and has rather big difference between the best and worst players ? Whatever people say MC vs Thorzain was played without latency and yet he lost Bo7 (I think, maybe Bo5). Also TOP is not exactly a bad player, top4 in GSL ST and playing pretty well in every GSL.
So yep, top Koreans are better, but code S is definitely not some untouchable group of players that no foreigner can touch. It is not like there are no foreigners in code S and HuK definitely did not yet show that he can be considered one the very top foreigners.
Back then TOP definitely wasn't at that level. The Thorzain/MC game was a best of 5. Another thing rather mentioned is that the winning game for Thorzain involved a strategy so overpowered Blizzard nerfed it very soon after, it's pretty rare for Blizzard to do that so fast.
On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote: Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying
Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins.
Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level.
And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference?
Ill start by saying that Koreans are better, I just do not think that the difference is like terribly high. I think they are mostly more consistent, foreigners just show some great games a then some terrible ones(for that level of play) and in the tournament that plays a big role.
Now for your argument. In Copenhagen games, recently-code-S player TheWind gets beaten quite early. Hmm, might that mean that code S is (now it is much better, but I think the observation still holds) not so far from the foreigner level and has rather big difference between the best and worst players ? Whatever people say MC vs Thorzain was played without latency and yet he lost Bo7 (I think, maybe Bo5). Also TOP is not exactly a bad player, top4 in GSL ST and playing pretty well in every GSL.
So yep, top Koreans are better, but code S is definitely not some untouchable group of players that no foreigner can touch. It is not like there are no foreigners in code S and HuK definitely did not yet show that he can be considered one the very top foreigners.
Back then TOP definitely wasn't at that level. The Thorzain/MC game was a best of 5. Another thing rather mentioned is that the winning game for Thorzain involved a strategy so overpowered Blizzard nerfed it very soon after, it's pretty rare for Blizzard to do that so fast.
You have an answer for everything don't you :D:D
Thorzain deserved his win, he did great. I just wouldn't use one game as evidence when there's about 100 games to the contrary.
On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote: Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying
Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins.
Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level.
And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference?
Ill start by saying that Koreans are better, I just do not think that the difference is like terribly high. I think they are mostly more consistent, foreigners just show some great games a then some terrible ones(for that level of play) and in the tournament that plays a big role.
Now for your argument. In Copenhagen games, recently-code-S player TheWind gets beaten quite early. Hmm, might that mean that code S is (now it is much better, but I think the observation still holds) not so far from the foreigner level and has rather big difference between the best and worst players ? Whatever people say MC vs Thorzain was played without latency and yet he lost Bo7 (I think, maybe Bo5). Also TOP is not exactly a bad player, top4 in GSL ST and playing pretty well in every GSL.
So yep, top Koreans are better, but code S is definitely not some untouchable group of players that no foreigner can touch. It is not like there are no foreigners in code S and HuK definitely did not yet show that he can be considered one the very top foreigners.
It's not like foreigners can touch. more like SC2 is still volatile.
as I said, MMA and MKP got 0-2ed by no name Koreans yesterday. (Sage beat MMA, JYP beat MKP)
btw, is there any no-name EU players who can 2-0 MKP,MMA in EU?
If someone could give an example he wouldn't be a noname. It's a stupid question.
On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote: Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying
Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins.
Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level.
And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference?
Ill start by saying that Koreans are better, I just do not think that the difference is like terribly high. I think they are mostly more consistent, foreigners just show some great games a then some terrible ones(for that level of play) and in the tournament that plays a big role.
Now for your argument. In Copenhagen games, recently-code-S player TheWind gets beaten quite early. Hmm, might that mean that code S is (now it is much better, but I think the observation still holds) not so far from the foreigner level and has rather big difference between the best and worst players ? Whatever people say MC vs Thorzain was played without latency and yet he lost Bo7 (I think, maybe Bo5). Also TOP is not exactly a bad player, top4 in GSL ST and playing pretty well in every GSL.
So yep, top Koreans are better, but code S is definitely not some untouchable group of players that no foreigner can touch. It is not like there are no foreigners in code S and HuK definitely did not yet show that he can be considered one the very top foreigners.
top's defeat in DH was almost 7 months ago, and he attended because he couldn't even qualify for GSL open 3. inca is the definition of a one matchup wonder, and he was eliminated by top in DH. as for thewind, the up/down system helps to retain bad players, which is how he's managed to stay code S for so long yet never accomplish anything other than instantly losing in the group stages and barely hanging on through up/down.
huk hasn't even played a single foreigner in a low latency environment since he left, there's no basis to compare him to foreigners other than his code a/s accomplishments.
furthermore, no one's arguing that foreigners can't beat koreans even some of the time, just that it's extremely unlikely they'll ever win a tournament with a couple of good koreans in attendance.
Why would Nada not know that he had finals the week before DreamHack? No one is asking that but everyone is ready to get mad about visa issues. It seems like school finals is something set in stone at the beginning of the term. Why would school cause the problem? Either something else came up or Nada doesn't respect the Dreamhack organizers. I wish we could find out what is really going on.
On June 15 2011 05:12 mki wrote: Looks like XlorD is replacing one of them :p --- I wrote the news for MYM but here's proof it's official and his ticket is bought!
That article says he'll be replacing Fruitdealer??? Isn't it Nada who isn't going?
My guess would be that Fruitdealer isn't going either - I wouldn't put my money on it though. Just the information I was given was that XlorD is replacing FruitDealer. If that's not the case I will edit the news immediately.
On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote: Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying
Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins.
Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level.
And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference?
Ill start by saying that Koreans are better, I just do not think that the difference is like terribly high. I think they are mostly more consistent, foreigners just show some great games a then some terrible ones(for that level of play) and in the tournament that plays a big role.
Now for your argument. In Copenhagen games, recently-code-S player TheWind gets beaten quite early. Hmm, might that mean that code S is (now it is much better, but I think the observation still holds) not so far from the foreigner level and has rather big difference between the best and worst players ? Whatever people say MC vs Thorzain was played without latency and yet he lost Bo7 (I think, maybe Bo5). Also TOP is not exactly a bad player, top4 in GSL ST and playing pretty well in every GSL.
So yep, top Koreans are better, but code S is definitely not some untouchable group of players that no foreigner can touch. It is not like there are no foreigners in code S and HuK definitely did not yet show that he can be considered one the very top foreigners.
It's not like foreigners can touch. more like SC2 is still volatile.
as I said, MMA and MKP got 0-2ed by no name Koreans yesterday. (Sage beat MMA, JYP beat MKP)
btw, is there any no-name EU players who can 2-0 MKP,MMA in EU?
On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote: Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying
Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins.
Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level.
And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference?
Ill start by saying that Koreans are better, I just do not think that the difference is like terribly high. I think they are mostly more consistent, foreigners just show some great games a then some terrible ones(for that level of play) and in the tournament that plays a big role.
Now for your argument. In Copenhagen games, recently-code-S player TheWind gets beaten quite early. Hmm, might that mean that code S is (now it is much better, but I think the observation still holds) not so far from the foreigner level and has rather big difference between the best and worst players ? Whatever people say MC vs Thorzain was played without latency and yet he lost Bo7 (I think, maybe Bo5). Also TOP is not exactly a bad player, top4 in GSL ST and playing pretty well in every GSL.
So yep, top Koreans are better, but code S is definitely not some untouchable group of players that no foreigner can touch. It is not like there are no foreigners in code S and HuK definitely did not yet show that he can be considered one the very top foreigners.
Back then TOP definitely wasn't at that level. The Thorzain/MC game was a best of 5. Another thing rather mentioned is that the winning game for Thorzain involved a strategy so overpowered Blizzard nerfed it very soon after, it's pretty rare for Blizzard to do that so fast.
You have an answer for everything don't you :D:D
Thorzain deserved his win, he did great. I just wouldn't use one game as evidence when there's about 100 games to the contrary.
Contrary to what ? You would be right if I was saying that Koreans are not better, but I am saying something completely different and your reply did not really address that.
On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote: Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying
Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins.
Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level.
And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference?
Ill start by saying that Koreans are better, I just do not think that the difference is like terribly high. I think they are mostly more consistent, foreigners just show some great games a then some terrible ones(for that level of play) and in the tournament that plays a big role.
Now for your argument. In Copenhagen games, recently-code-S player TheWind gets beaten quite early. Hmm, might that mean that code S is (now it is much better, but I think the observation still holds) not so far from the foreigner level and has rather big difference between the best and worst players ? Whatever people say MC vs Thorzain was played without latency and yet he lost Bo7 (I think, maybe Bo5). Also TOP is not exactly a bad player, top4 in GSL ST and playing pretty well in every GSL.
So yep, top Koreans are better, but code S is definitely not some untouchable group of players that no foreigner can touch. It is not like there are no foreigners in code S and HuK definitely did not yet show that he can be considered one the very top foreigners.
Back then TOP definitely wasn't at that level. The Thorzain/MC game was a best of 5. Another thing rather mentioned is that the winning game for Thorzain involved a strategy so overpowered Blizzard nerfed it very soon after, it's pretty rare for Blizzard to do that so fast.
You have an answer for everything don't you :D:D
Thorzain deserved his win, he did great. I just wouldn't use one game as evidence when there's about 100 games to the contrary.
We don't need 50 vs 50 games won by each side. No one is trying to prove that the best foreigners are on equal ground with the best Koreans. A Korean will probably win DH but I still think the foreigners can compete. If one of the best foreigners has a good day and a good bracket and has prepared well, he can easily take games from the best Koreans and win the tournament. If the tournament is replayed 10 times, Koreans will probably win a majority of those tournaments but foreigners will win a few of them and place top 3 in most of them.
What happened in TSL3 can happen at DH even though it is a Lan event.
Why would Nada not know that he had finals the week before DreamHack? No one is asking that but everyone is ready to get mad about visa issues. It seems like school finals is something set in stone at the beginning of the term. Why would school cause the problem? Either something else came up or Nada doesn't respect the Dreamhack organizers. I wish we could find out what is really going on.
In uni normally you have 2 to 3 changes of doing a subject. If you fail on 1 you can try again later, maybe he thought he could pass and he didn't.
On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote: Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying
Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins.
Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level.
And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference?
Ill start by saying that Koreans are better, I just do not think that the difference is like terribly high. I think they are mostly more consistent, foreigners just show some great games a then some terrible ones(for that level of play) and in the tournament that plays a big role.
Now for your argument. In Copenhagen games, recently-code-S player TheWind gets beaten quite early. Hmm, might that mean that code S is (now it is much better, but I think the observation still holds) not so far from the foreigner level and has rather big difference between the best and worst players ? Whatever people say MC vs Thorzain was played without latency and yet he lost Bo7 (I think, maybe Bo5). Also TOP is not exactly a bad player, top4 in GSL ST and playing pretty well in every GSL.
So yep, top Koreans are better, but code S is definitely not some untouchable group of players that no foreigner can touch. It is not like there are no foreigners in code S and HuK definitely did not yet show that he can be considered one the very top foreigners.
top's defeat in DH was almost 7 months ago, and he attended because he couldn't even qualify for GSL open 3. inca is the definition of a one matchup wonder, and he was eliminated by top in DH. as for thewind, the up/down system helps to retain bad players, which is how he's managed to stay code S for so long yet never accomplish anything other than instantly losing in the group stages and barely hanging on through up/down.
huk hasn't even played a single foreigner in a low latency environment since he left, there's no basis to compare him to foreigners other than his code a/s accomplishments.
furthermore, no one's arguing that foreigners can't beat koreans even some of the time, just that it's extremely unlikely they'll ever win a tournament with a couple of good koreans in attendance.
Just because everyone is nitpicking, in DH winter Tyler beat Inca in PvP. As for HuK, did you forgot Assembly and MLG Dallas ? Also what at least I am arguing is that there is quite a lot of foreigners that are easily code A material, and getting to code S is kind of a matter of luck if you are not MVP or Bomber, so given reasonable number of top foreigners in code A there would be top foreigners in code S , some even for many seasons.
On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote: Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying
Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins.
Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level.
And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference?
Ill start by saying that Koreans are better, I just do not think that the difference is like terribly high. I think they are mostly more consistent, foreigners just show some great games a then some terrible ones(for that level of play) and in the tournament that plays a big role.
Now for your argument. In Copenhagen games, recently-code-S player TheWind gets beaten quite early. Hmm, might that mean that code S is (now it is much better, but I think the observation still holds) not so far from the foreigner level and has rather big difference between the best and worst players ? Whatever people say MC vs Thorzain was played without latency and yet he lost Bo7 (I think, maybe Bo5). Also TOP is not exactly a bad player, top4 in GSL ST and playing pretty well in every GSL.
So yep, top Koreans are better, but code S is definitely not some untouchable group of players that no foreigner can touch. It is not like there are no foreigners in code S and HuK definitely did not yet show that he can be considered one the very top foreigners.
It's not like foreigners can touch. more like SC2 is still volatile.
as I said, MMA and MKP got 0-2ed by no name Koreans yesterday. (Sage beat MMA, JYP beat MKP)
btw, is there any no-name EU players who can 2-0 MKP,MMA in EU?
What is no-name ?
someone who... has no achievement? you prolly never heard of JYP,Sage before right? even no name can beat MKP,MMA.
On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote: Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying
Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins.
Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level.
And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference?
Ill start by saying that Koreans are better, I just do not think that the difference is like terribly high. I think they are mostly more consistent, foreigners just show some great games a then some terrible ones(for that level of play) and in the tournament that plays a big role.
Now for your argument. In Copenhagen games, recently-code-S player TheWind gets beaten quite early. Hmm, might that mean that code S is (now it is much better, but I think the observation still holds) not so far from the foreigner level and has rather big difference between the best and worst players ? Whatever people say MC vs Thorzain was played without latency and yet he lost Bo7 (I think, maybe Bo5). Also TOP is not exactly a bad player, top4 in GSL ST and playing pretty well in every GSL.
So yep, top Koreans are better, but code S is definitely not some untouchable group of players that no foreigner can touch. It is not like there are no foreigners in code S and HuK definitely did not yet show that he can be considered one the very top foreigners.
It's not like foreigners can touch. more like SC2 is still volatile.
as I said, MMA and MKP got 0-2ed by no name Koreans yesterday. (Sage beat MMA, JYP beat MKP)
btw, is there any no-name EU players who can 2-0 MKP,MMA in EU?
What is no-name ?
someone who... has no achievement? you prolly never heard of JYP,Sage before right? even no name can beat MKP,MMA.
That's a pretty dumb statement, someone not being known doesn't mean anything. Many people didn't know DRG before he came crashing into GSTL. Same with MMA, many people don't know Nerchio and he's been dominating everyone in EU, 3-0ing people like Thorzain who also noone knew before his TSL cinderella story.
On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote: Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying
Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins.
Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level.
And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference?
Ill start by saying that Koreans are better, I just do not think that the difference is like terribly high. I think they are mostly more consistent, foreigners just show some great games a then some terrible ones(for that level of play) and in the tournament that plays a big role.
Now for your argument. In Copenhagen games, recently-code-S player TheWind gets beaten quite early. Hmm, might that mean that code S is (now it is much better, but I think the observation still holds) not so far from the foreigner level and has rather big difference between the best and worst players ? Whatever people say MC vs Thorzain was played without latency and yet he lost Bo7 (I think, maybe Bo5). Also TOP is not exactly a bad player, top4 in GSL ST and playing pretty well in every GSL.
So yep, top Koreans are better, but code S is definitely not some untouchable group of players that no foreigner can touch. It is not like there are no foreigners in code S and HuK definitely did not yet show that he can be considered one the very top foreigners.
It's not like foreigners can touch. more like SC2 is still volatile.
as I said, MMA and MKP got 0-2ed by no name Koreans yesterday. (Sage beat MMA, JYP beat MKP)
btw, is there any no-name EU players who can 2-0 MKP,MMA in EU?
What is no-name ?
someone who... has no achievement? you prolly never heard of JYP,Sage before right? even no name can beat MKP,MMA.
That's a pretty dumb statement, someone not being known doesn't mean anything. Many people didn't know DRG before he came crashing into GSTL. Same with MMA, many people don't know Nerchio and he's been dominating everyone in EU, 3-0ing people like Thorzain who also noone knew before his TSL cinderella story.
so.. Nericho had no achievement before he beat Thorzain?
On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote: Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying
Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins.
Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level.
And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference?
Ill start by saying that Koreans are better, I just do not think that the difference is like terribly high. I think they are mostly more consistent, foreigners just show some great games a then some terrible ones(for that level of play) and in the tournament that plays a big role.
Now for your argument. In Copenhagen games, recently-code-S player TheWind gets beaten quite early. Hmm, might that mean that code S is (now it is much better, but I think the observation still holds) not so far from the foreigner level and has rather big difference between the best and worst players ? Whatever people say MC vs Thorzain was played without latency and yet he lost Bo7 (I think, maybe Bo5). Also TOP is not exactly a bad player, top4 in GSL ST and playing pretty well in every GSL.
So yep, top Koreans are better, but code S is definitely not some untouchable group of players that no foreigner can touch. It is not like there are no foreigners in code S and HuK definitely did not yet show that he can be considered one the very top foreigners.
It's not like foreigners can touch. more like SC2 is still volatile.
as I said, MMA and MKP got 0-2ed by no name Koreans yesterday. (Sage beat MMA, JYP beat MKP)
btw, is there any no-name EU players who can 2-0 MKP,MMA in EU?
What is no-name ?
someone who... has no achievement? you prolly never heard of JYP,Sage before right? even no name can beat MKP,MMA.
That's a pretty dumb statement, someone not being known doesn't mean anything. Many people didn't know DRG before he came crashing into GSTL. Same with MMA, many people don't know Nerchio and he's been dominating everyone in EU, 3-0ing people like Thorzain who also noone knew before his TSL cinderella story.
so.. Nericho had no achievement before he beat Thorzain?
On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote: Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying
Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins.
Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level.
And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference?
Ill start by saying that Koreans are better, I just do not think that the difference is like terribly high. I think they are mostly more consistent, foreigners just show some great games a then some terrible ones(for that level of play) and in the tournament that plays a big role.
Now for your argument. In Copenhagen games, recently-code-S player TheWind gets beaten quite early. Hmm, might that mean that code S is (now it is much better, but I think the observation still holds) not so far from the foreigner level and has rather big difference between the best and worst players ? Whatever people say MC vs Thorzain was played without latency and yet he lost Bo7 (I think, maybe Bo5). Also TOP is not exactly a bad player, top4 in GSL ST and playing pretty well in every GSL.
So yep, top Koreans are better, but code S is definitely not some untouchable group of players that no foreigner can touch. It is not like there are no foreigners in code S and HuK definitely did not yet show that he can be considered one the very top foreigners.
top's defeat in DH was almost 7 months ago, and he attended because he couldn't even qualify for GSL open 3. inca is the definition of a one matchup wonder, and he was eliminated by top in DH. as for thewind, the up/down system helps to retain bad players, which is how he's managed to stay code S for so long yet never accomplish anything other than instantly losing in the group stages and barely hanging on through up/down.
huk hasn't even played a single foreigner in a low latency environment since he left, there's no basis to compare him to foreigners other than his code a/s accomplishments.
furthermore, no one's arguing that foreigners can't beat koreans even some of the time, just that it's extremely unlikely they'll ever win a tournament with a couple of good koreans in attendance.
Just because everyone is nitpicking, in DH winter Tyler beat Inca in PvP. As for HuK, did you forgot Assembly and MLG Dallas ? Also what at least I am arguing is that there is quite a lot of foreigners that are easily code A material, and getting to code S is kind of a matter of luck if you are not MVP or Bomber, so given reasonable number of top foreigners in code A there would be top foreigners in code S , some even for many seasons.
All I have to say is... every single code-b player is on top foreigner level. They are all able to beat MKP,MMA,Nestea,Bomber.
It's not like top foreigners are so great. SC2 is still volatile and there are too many same level players in the world except few.
On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote: Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying
Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins.
Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level.
And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference?
Ill start by saying that Koreans are better, I just do not think that the difference is like terribly high. I think they are mostly more consistent, foreigners just show some great games a then some terrible ones(for that level of play) and in the tournament that plays a big role.
Now for your argument. In Copenhagen games, recently-code-S player TheWind gets beaten quite early. Hmm, might that mean that code S is (now it is much better, but I think the observation still holds) not so far from the foreigner level and has rather big difference between the best and worst players ? Whatever people say MC vs Thorzain was played without latency and yet he lost Bo7 (I think, maybe Bo5). Also TOP is not exactly a bad player, top4 in GSL ST and playing pretty well in every GSL.
So yep, top Koreans are better, but code S is definitely not some untouchable group of players that no foreigner can touch. It is not like there are no foreigners in code S and HuK definitely did not yet show that he can be considered one the very top foreigners.
It's not like foreigners can touch. more like SC2 is still volatile.
as I said, MMA and MKP got 0-2ed by no name Koreans yesterday. (Sage beat MMA, JYP beat MKP)
btw, is there any no-name EU players who can 2-0 MKP,MMA in EU?
What is no-name ?
someone who... has no achievement? you prolly never heard of JYP,Sage before right? even no name can beat MKP,MMA.
That's a pretty dumb statement, someone not being known doesn't mean anything. Many people didn't know DRG before he came crashing into GSTL. Same with MMA, many people don't know Nerchio and he's been dominating everyone in EU, 3-0ing people like Thorzain who also noone knew before his TSL cinderella story.
so.. Nericho had no achievement before he beat Thorzain?
cool counter-argument bro, post again when you have one.
Thorzain to NA players and KR players (many of (MC, MMA, Spunky) considering him to be on KR level) was infinitely more known than Nerchio.
someone who isn't known taking someone out who is doesn't mean jackshit
On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote: Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying
Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins.
Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level.
And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference?
Ill start by saying that Koreans are better, I just do not think that the difference is like terribly high. I think they are mostly more consistent, foreigners just show some great games a then some terrible ones(for that level of play) and in the tournament that plays a big role.
Now for your argument. In Copenhagen games, recently-code-S player TheWind gets beaten quite early. Hmm, might that mean that code S is (now it is much better, but I think the observation still holds) not so far from the foreigner level and has rather big difference between the best and worst players ? Whatever people say MC vs Thorzain was played without latency and yet he lost Bo7 (I think, maybe Bo5). Also TOP is not exactly a bad player, top4 in GSL ST and playing pretty well in every GSL.
So yep, top Koreans are better, but code S is definitely not some untouchable group of players that no foreigner can touch. It is not like there are no foreigners in code S and HuK definitely did not yet show that he can be considered one the very top foreigners.
It's not like foreigners can touch. more like SC2 is still volatile.
as I said, MMA and MKP got 0-2ed by no name Koreans yesterday. (Sage beat MMA, JYP beat MKP)
btw, is there any no-name EU players who can 2-0 MKP,MMA in EU?
What is no-name ?
someone who... has no achievement? you prolly never heard of JYP,Sage before right? even no name can beat MKP,MMA.
I heard about Sage before, but the point is, if he has no achievements how can I know him ? This request is therefore stupid.
On June 15 2011 05:56 Karakaxe wrote: Some people think that Koreans are way ahead of the rest of the world.
Some people think Koreans are not that far ahead.
Some people think that it's very even.
That's all there is to this "discussion" about Korea vs World. Just accept that people have different views on competitive SC2.
It's not a matter of opinion, you can clearly make an objective statement regarding how foreigners compare to Koreans based on LAN results and the gist of that statement should be obvious to everyone.
On June 15 2011 05:56 Karakaxe wrote: Some people think that Koreans are way ahead of the rest of the world.
Some people think Koreans are not that far ahead.
Some people think that it's very even.
That's all there is to this "discussion" about Korea vs World. Just accept that people have different views on competitive SC2.
And that we all agree we Foreigners arn't the best lol. At our peak we're even, which is very sad.
why in the world is it sad? koreans work harder, hence they are better. why is that so difficult for you to understand and accept. man i hate this lazy culture i live in, i wish i was born in korea where striving for excellence is the way to go.
On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote: Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying
Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins.
Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level.
And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference?
Ill start by saying that Koreans are better, I just do not think that the difference is like terribly high. I think they are mostly more consistent, foreigners just show some great games a then some terrible ones(for that level of play) and in the tournament that plays a big role.
Now for your argument. In Copenhagen games, recently-code-S player TheWind gets beaten quite early. Hmm, might that mean that code S is (now it is much better, but I think the observation still holds) not so far from the foreigner level and has rather big difference between the best and worst players ? Whatever people say MC vs Thorzain was played without latency and yet he lost Bo7 (I think, maybe Bo5). Also TOP is not exactly a bad player, top4 in GSL ST and playing pretty well in every GSL.
So yep, top Koreans are better, but code S is definitely not some untouchable group of players that no foreigner can touch. It is not like there are no foreigners in code S and HuK definitely did not yet show that he can be considered one the very top foreigners.
It's not like foreigners can touch. more like SC2 is still volatile.
as I said, MMA and MKP got 0-2ed by no name Koreans yesterday. (Sage beat MMA, JYP beat MKP)
btw, is there any no-name EU players who can 2-0 MKP,MMA in EU?
What is no-name ?
someone who... has no achievement? you prolly never heard of JYP,Sage before right? even no name can beat MKP,MMA.
That's a pretty dumb statement, someone not being known doesn't mean anything. Many people didn't know DRG before he came crashing into GSTL. Same with MMA, many people don't know Nerchio and he's been dominating everyone in EU, 3-0ing people like Thorzain who also noone knew before his TSL cinderella story.
so.. Nericho had no achievement before he beat Thorzain?
cool counter-argument bro, post again when you have one.
Thorzain to NA players and KR players (many of (MC, MMA, Spunky) considering him to be on KR level) was infinitely more known than Nerchio.
someone who isn't known taking someone out who is doesn't mean jackshit
On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote: Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying
Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins.
Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level.
And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference?
Ill start by saying that Koreans are better, I just do not think that the difference is like terribly high. I think they are mostly more consistent, foreigners just show some great games a then some terrible ones(for that level of play) and in the tournament that plays a big role.
Now for your argument. In Copenhagen games, recently-code-S player TheWind gets beaten quite early. Hmm, might that mean that code S is (now it is much better, but I think the observation still holds) not so far from the foreigner level and has rather big difference between the best and worst players ? Whatever people say MC vs Thorzain was played without latency and yet he lost Bo7 (I think, maybe Bo5). Also TOP is not exactly a bad player, top4 in GSL ST and playing pretty well in every GSL.
So yep, top Koreans are better, but code S is definitely not some untouchable group of players that no foreigner can touch. It is not like there are no foreigners in code S and HuK definitely did not yet show that he can be considered one the very top foreigners.
It's not like foreigners can touch. more like SC2 is still volatile.
as I said, MMA and MKP got 0-2ed by no name Koreans yesterday. (Sage beat MMA, JYP beat MKP)
btw, is there any no-name EU players who can 2-0 MKP,MMA in EU?
What is no-name ?
someone who... has no achievement? you prolly never heard of JYP,Sage before right? even no name can beat MKP,MMA.
That's a pretty dumb statement, someone not being known doesn't mean anything. Many people didn't know DRG before he came crashing into GSTL. Same with MMA, many people don't know Nerchio and he's been dominating everyone in EU, 3-0ing people like Thorzain who also noone knew before his TSL cinderella story.
so.. Nericho had no achievement before he beat Thorzain?
cool counter-argument bro, post again when you have one.
Thorzain to NA players and KR players (many of (MC, MMA, Spunky) considering him to be on KR level) was infinitely more known than Nerchio.
someone who isn't known taking someone out who is doesn't mean jackshit
I will not reply to your post, because there's evidently no content in it and I don't want to shit up this thread anymore, because it's about Dreamhack and who's attending and now whether I think Nerchio is a no-name player (which I don't)
Noo! NaDa my champ..:/ I had hoped to see the best player of all time duke it out!, hope he comes to the next dreamhack, because I would really like to meet him/see him.
On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote: Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying
Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins.
Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level.
And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference?
Ill start by saying that Koreans are better, I just do not think that the difference is like terribly high. I think they are mostly more consistent, foreigners just show some great games a then some terrible ones(for that level of play) and in the tournament that plays a big role.
Now for your argument. In Copenhagen games, recently-code-S player TheWind gets beaten quite early. Hmm, might that mean that code S is (now it is much better, but I think the observation still holds) not so far from the foreigner level and has rather big difference between the best and worst players ? Whatever people say MC vs Thorzain was played without latency and yet he lost Bo7 (I think, maybe Bo5). Also TOP is not exactly a bad player, top4 in GSL ST and playing pretty well in every GSL.
So yep, top Koreans are better, but code S is definitely not some untouchable group of players that no foreigner can touch. It is not like there are no foreigners in code S and HuK definitely did not yet show that he can be considered one the very top foreigners.
It's not like foreigners can touch. more like SC2 is still volatile.
as I said, MMA and MKP got 0-2ed by no name Koreans yesterday. (Sage beat MMA, JYP beat MKP)
btw, is there any no-name EU players who can 2-0 MKP,MMA in EU?
What is no-name ?
someone who... has no achievement? you prolly never heard of JYP,Sage before right? even no name can beat MKP,MMA.
That's a pretty dumb statement, someone not being known doesn't mean anything. Many people didn't know DRG before he came crashing into GSTL. Same with MMA, many people don't know Nerchio and he's been dominating everyone in EU, 3-0ing people like Thorzain who also noone knew before his TSL cinderella story.
so.. Nericho had no achievement before he beat Thorzain?
cool counter-argument bro, post again when you have one.
Thorzain to NA players and KR players (many of (MC, MMA, Spunky) considering him to be on KR level) was infinitely more known than Nerchio.
someone who isn't known taking someone out who is doesn't mean jackshit
it would be a bummer if fd indeed isn't going but right now i'm going to wait for more information before getting too upset, right now it's like 3rd-hand information
On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote: Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying
Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins.
Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level.
And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference?
Ill start by saying that Koreans are better, I just do not think that the difference is like terribly high. I think they are mostly more consistent, foreigners just show some great games a then some terrible ones(for that level of play) and in the tournament that plays a big role.
Now for your argument. In Copenhagen games, recently-code-S player TheWind gets beaten quite early. Hmm, might that mean that code S is (now it is much better, but I think the observation still holds) not so far from the foreigner level and has rather big difference between the best and worst players ? Whatever people say MC vs Thorzain was played without latency and yet he lost Bo7 (I think, maybe Bo5). Also TOP is not exactly a bad player, top4 in GSL ST and playing pretty well in every GSL.
So yep, top Koreans are better, but code S is definitely not some untouchable group of players that no foreigner can touch. It is not like there are no foreigners in code S and HuK definitely did not yet show that he can be considered one the very top foreigners.
Back then TOP definitely wasn't at that level. The Thorzain/MC game was a best of 5. Another thing rather mentioned is that the winning game for Thorzain involved a strategy so overpowered Blizzard nerfed it very soon after, it's pretty rare for Blizzard to do that so fast.
You have an answer for everything don't you :D:D
Thorzain deserved his win, he did great. I just wouldn't use one game as evidence when there's about 100 games to the contrary.
Contrary to what ? You would be right if I was saying that Koreans are not better, but I am saying something completely different and your reply did not really address that.
That's what happens when you reply in the defense of a volume poster. You're right that the top foreigners can take games off Koreans but you're basically replying in defense of some clueless fanboy who thinks there's no difference between the Korean and foreigner scenes.
Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins.
Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level.
And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference?
Ill start by saying that Koreans are better, I just do not think that the difference is like terribly high. I think they are mostly more consistent, foreigners just show some great games a then some terrible ones(for that level of play) and in the tournament that plays a big role.
Now for your argument. In Copenhagen games, recently-code-S player TheWind gets beaten quite early. Hmm, might that mean that code S is (now it is much better, but I think the observation still holds) not so far from the foreigner level and has rather big difference between the best and worst players ? Whatever people say MC vs Thorzain was played without latency and yet he lost Bo7 (I think, maybe Bo5). Also TOP is not exactly a bad player, top4 in GSL ST and playing pretty well in every GSL.
So yep, top Koreans are better, but code S is definitely not some untouchable group of players that no foreigner can touch. It is not like there are no foreigners in code S and HuK definitely did not yet show that he can be considered one the very top foreigners.
It's not like foreigners can touch. more like SC2 is still volatile.
as I said, MMA and MKP got 0-2ed by no name Koreans yesterday. (Sage beat MMA, JYP beat MKP)
btw, is there any no-name EU players who can 2-0 MKP,MMA in EU?
What is no-name ?
someone who... has no achievement? you prolly never heard of JYP,Sage before right? even no name can beat MKP,MMA.
That's a pretty dumb statement, someone not being known doesn't mean anything. Many people didn't know DRG before he came crashing into GSTL. Same with MMA, many people don't know Nerchio and he's been dominating everyone in EU, 3-0ing people like Thorzain who also noone knew before his TSL cinderella story.
so.. Nericho had no achievement before he beat Thorzain?
cool counter-argument bro, post again when you have one.
Thorzain to NA players and KR players (many of (MC, MMA, Spunky) considering him to be on KR level) was infinitely more known than Nerchio.
someone who isn't known taking someone out who is doesn't mean jackshit
I will not reply to your post, because there's evidently no content in it and I don't want to shit up this thread anymore, because it's about Dreamhack and who's attending and now whether I think Nerchio is a no-name player (which I don't)
good for you
just remember that even Code-B random guys who don't even have record can beat MMA,MKP. SC2 is volatile, anyone can win.
On June 15 2011 06:24 Antoine wrote: it would be a bummer if fd indeed isn't going but right now i'm going to wait for more information before getting too upset, right now it's like 3rd-hand information
MYM was contacted in regards to if we wanted to send XlorD in place of FruitDealer. How is that third hand?
Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins.
Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level.
And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference?
Ill start by saying that Koreans are better, I just do not think that the difference is like terribly high. I think they are mostly more consistent, foreigners just show some great games a then some terrible ones(for that level of play) and in the tournament that plays a big role.
Now for your argument. In Copenhagen games, recently-code-S player TheWind gets beaten quite early. Hmm, might that mean that code S is (now it is much better, but I think the observation still holds) not so far from the foreigner level and has rather big difference between the best and worst players ? Whatever people say MC vs Thorzain was played without latency and yet he lost Bo7 (I think, maybe Bo5). Also TOP is not exactly a bad player, top4 in GSL ST and playing pretty well in every GSL.
So yep, top Koreans are better, but code S is definitely not some untouchable group of players that no foreigner can touch. It is not like there are no foreigners in code S and HuK definitely did not yet show that he can be considered one the very top foreigners.
It's not like foreigners can touch. more like SC2 is still volatile.
as I said, MMA and MKP got 0-2ed by no name Koreans yesterday. (Sage beat MMA, JYP beat MKP)
btw, is there any no-name EU players who can 2-0 MKP,MMA in EU?
What is no-name ?
someone who... has no achievement? you prolly never heard of JYP,Sage before right? even no name can beat MKP,MMA.
That's a pretty dumb statement, someone not being known doesn't mean anything. Many people didn't know DRG before he came crashing into GSTL. Same with MMA, many people don't know Nerchio and he's been dominating everyone in EU, 3-0ing people like Thorzain who also noone knew before his TSL cinderella story.
so.. Nericho had no achievement before he beat Thorzain?
cool counter-argument bro, post again when you have one.
Thorzain to NA players and KR players (many of (MC, MMA, Spunky) considering him to be on KR level) was infinitely more known than Nerchio.
someone who isn't known taking someone out who is doesn't mean jackshit
it would be a bummer if fd indeed isn't going but right now i'm going to wait for more information before getting too upset, right now it's like 3rd-hand information
uh, I missed it. not a great career but still, at least he has record....
anyway, I thought DH provided plane tickets for players but if not, It is understandable that Koreans are not coming.
On June 15 2011 06:24 Antoine wrote: it would be a bummer if fd indeed isn't going but right now i'm going to wait for more information before getting too upset, right now it's like 3rd-hand information
MYM was contacted in regards to if we wanted to send XlorD in place of FruitDealer. How is that third hand?
I guess the skepticism is mostly because we haven't gotten first-hand confirmation from FD himself yet. I wonder if the PlayXP forums have anything to say about this. If only I could read Korean.
On June 15 2011 06:35 namedplayer wrote: anyway, I thought DH provided plane tickets for players but if not, It is understandable that Koreans are not coming.
paying for 46 plane tickets would not be reasonable^^, they should be happy they can compete for 3x as much money as mlg :>
Many of them aren't going probably because they admit that they don't have a chance winning over the likes of MC or lose randomly to some other foreigners. The trip isn't worth it compared to the winning chance.
On June 15 2011 06:24 Antoine wrote: it would be a bummer if fd indeed isn't going but right now i'm going to wait for more information before getting too upset, right now it's like 3rd-hand information
MYM was contacted in regards to if we wanted to send XlorD in place of FruitDealer. How is that third hand?
you (3rd hand) heard from mym management (2nd hand) that they were contacted by dreamhack (1st hand) to replace fruitdealer (also first hand)
i'm not saying you're wrong, but i'm just waiting to hear something from dh or fd himself
On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote: Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying
Blizzcon - Won by Genius (Korea) Dreamhack Winter - Won by Naama (Europe) - very few Koreans in attendence though. IEM - Won by Ace (Korea), 3 Koreans entered, took top three. GSL World Championships - Won by MVP (Korea) - the best of the best Koreans versus some very good foreigners. Only Dimaga takes a game off a Korean when money is involved and is soundly beaten by San straight after. Dreamhack Invitational - Won by MC (Korea) - One Koreans, seven foreigners and Korean takes it. Copenhagen Games - Won by MC (Korea) - Two Koreans, a few good Europeans and a lot of medicore Europeans. MLG Columbus - Won by MMA (Korea) - Korean top three and only Koreans knocked out Koreans. Almost every good foreigner in attendence alongside four good Koreans and a mediocre one. Stars War - Won by MC (Korea) - Online for a lot of it, MC vs 3 top Chinese top in LAN, MC wins.
Literally the only LAN won by a foreigner when a Korean is there was Dreamhack Winter, and the foreigners were Inca and TOP not exactly MC, Nestea level.
And yet some people don't think there's a skill difference?
Ill start by saying that Koreans are better, I just do not think that the difference is like terribly high. I think they are mostly more consistent, foreigners just show some great games a then some terrible ones(for that level of play) and in the tournament that plays a big role.
Now for your argument. In Copenhagen games, recently-code-S player TheWind gets beaten quite early. Hmm, might that mean that code S is (now it is much better, but I think the observation still holds) not so far from the foreigner level and has rather big difference between the best and worst players ? Whatever people say MC vs Thorzain was played without latency and yet he lost Bo7 (I think, maybe Bo5). Also TOP is not exactly a bad player, top4 in GSL ST and playing pretty well in every GSL.
So yep, top Koreans are better, but code S is definitely not some untouchable group of players that no foreigner can touch. It is not like there are no foreigners in code S and HuK definitely did not yet show that he can be considered one the very top foreigners.
Back then TOP definitely wasn't at that level. The Thorzain/MC game was a best of 5. Another thing rather mentioned is that the winning game for Thorzain involved a strategy so overpowered Blizzard nerfed it very soon after, it's pretty rare for Blizzard to do that so fast.
Blizzard stated that they didn't necessarily think the strategy is overpowered but that they didn't like the usage of mass Thors, get your facts straight. And it's not like everyone used that strategy back then.
This is an easy fix, Nada, Fruitdealer, MKP and others who cancel in such a short notise after signing up months in advance shoulnt get accepted next time there is a Dreamhack.
I think there can be such thing as too many Korean invites (and vise versa) at this point in the life of SC2. Players can only take (and pay for) so many trips in a year, might as well try to spread them out over multiple tournaments.
On June 15 2011 06:35 namedplayer wrote: anyway, I thought DH provided plane tickets for players but if not, It is understandable that Koreans are not coming.
But why apply then to begin with, if thats the issue? Which it isn't ofc.
How about we let them tell us why, instead of coming up with cute but completely made up and easily debunked defenses like this?
On June 15 2011 07:36 xuanzue wrote: so many invites = huge fail
the tournaments based on qualifiers are a lot better that tournaments based on invites.
There are qualifiers too. One spot in every group is from open qualifier.
DH has a price pool that qute good, and it's the largest LAN in the world. The main focus of this event is the experience for the LAN visitors (they're the ones who're paying btw. The HD stream is free). I assume they don't want a crowd favourite to fall out to some ridiculous cheese in some open bracket.
It's basically the MLG of Europe with a huge audience and a working stream. Five of them actually.
On June 15 2011 07:43 Nerdslayer wrote: This is an easy fix, Nada, Fruitdealer, MKP and others who cancel in such a short notise after signing up months in advance shoulnt get accepted next time there is a Dreamhack.
I completely agree. They've known about this specifics about this for ages most likely. I mean how could NaDa not know when his exams were? It's just poor planning from the players and their teams. It ruins tournaments that people just don't show up. Same thing is fairly frequent in 'the nasle league' as Strelok calls it ♥
On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote: Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying
Koreans are much more humble than most foreigners. If you truly believe the foreigners are just as good as the koreans, then go ahead, I won't stop you. Foreigner fanboys are even more adorable, thinking they are as strong as the korean scene when they've been stomped so hard. I love many foreigners. Huge fan of TLO, sen, jinro, and many more. But never in a 100 years would I say the current foreign sc2 players are anywhere near as strong as the koreans. If you don't believe it fine. I'll return to your quotes once the koreans sweep 123 like they did mlg and iem.
On June 15 2011 02:15 Elem wrote: [quote]Code S is hardly stacked. Especially not compared to Dreamhack.
Code S is at least 10x as stacked as Dreamhack. You have a few star koreans + some star foreigners + some no name/average foreigners. Hardly anywhere as stacked as any korean tournament.
If you're going to pull numbers, be realistic.
Maybe not 10x but the post he was replying to was a lot more idiotic. How many more foreign events do koreans have to sweep before people get the picture? Too bad MKP isn't attending he finally could've won an event -_-. MC/Bomber will still take 1/2 tho unless they meet earlier on. The rest is up for grabs imo
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
TSL3 was online, which ends that argument.
No, it does not actually. Thanks for trying champ
yes it does, get out troll. 350 ping vs 30 ping.
try it.
ps:
TSL3: everyone: LOLOLOL 'white dudes own korea' Korea: but it was lag everyone: BUT YOU LOST! LOLOLOLOL.
MLG Columbus everyone: wow.... we are way behind the koreans... 1st/2nd/3rd all koreans. koreans only lost to koreans in columbus... wow. Korea: told you it was lag. everyone: *starts thread about people getting owned at homesoil*
Idra could have easily taken at least 3rd had he not given up. Thorzain also could have probably placed higher on a different day, same with Naniwa who pretty much /danced his way to a loss.
If anything I'd say that Columbus's close games pretty much proved the difference between Koreans and Foreigners is pretty small. Top Koreans aren't much better than top foreigners (yet), however, Korea has a much more robust scene for sure.
On June 15 2011 06:53 ThePhan2m wrote: Many of them aren't going probably because they admit that they don't have a chance winning over the likes of MC or lose randomly to some other foreigners. The trip isn't worth it compared to the winning chance.
This is pretty naive. The competition, aside from the other Koreans and maybe a small, small number of foreigners, isn't that hard for the Koreans at all. Not to mention that it's only a 3 day commitment, it's pretty easy to see that this isn't the reason.
Code S is at least 10x as stacked as Dreamhack. You have a few star koreans + some star foreigners + some no name/average foreigners. Hardly anywhere as stacked as any korean tournament.
If you're going to pull numbers, be realistic.
Maybe not 10x but the post he was replying to was a lot more idiotic. How many more foreign events do koreans have to sweep before people get the picture? Too bad MKP isn't attending he finally could've won an event -_-. MC/Bomber will still take 1/2 tho unless they meet earlier on. The rest is up for grabs imo
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
TSL3 was online, which ends that argument.
No, it does not actually. Thanks for trying champ
yes it does, get out troll. 350 ping vs 30 ping.
try it.
ps:
TSL3: everyone: LOLOLOL 'white dudes own korea' Korea: but it was lag everyone: BUT YOU LOST! LOLOLOLOL.
MLG Columbus everyone: wow.... we are way behind the koreans... 1st/2nd/3rd all koreans. koreans only lost to koreans in columbus... wow. Korea: told you it was lag. everyone: *starts thread about people getting owned at homesoil*
Idra could have easily taken at least 3rd had he not given up. Thorzain also could have probably placed higher on a different day, same with Naniwa who pretty much /danced his way to a loss.
If anything I'd say that Columbus's close games pretty much proved the difference between Koreans and Foreigners is pretty small. Top Koreans aren't much better than top foreigners (yet), however, Korea has a much more robust scene for sure.
This is why foreign fanboys are so cute. Keep on deluding yourself, outside of the few games you mentioned, most weren't even close.
Foreigner can compete with Korea np its not a huge skill diffrence i mean remember when Jinro went to GSL and RO4 2 times in a row like np being the only one to beat MC. Foreigner scene is understimated. And where did Thorazin come from ? trust me their many more out there.
Maybe not 10x but the post he was replying to was a lot more idiotic. How many more foreign events do koreans have to sweep before people get the picture? Too bad MKP isn't attending he finally could've won an event -_-. MC/Bomber will still take 1/2 tho unless they meet earlier on. The rest is up for grabs imo
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
TSL3 was online, which ends that argument.
No, it does not actually. Thanks for trying champ
yes it does, get out troll. 350 ping vs 30 ping.
try it.
ps:
TSL3: everyone: LOLOLOL 'white dudes own korea' Korea: but it was lag everyone: BUT YOU LOST! LOLOLOLOL.
MLG Columbus everyone: wow.... we are way behind the koreans... 1st/2nd/3rd all koreans. koreans only lost to koreans in columbus... wow. Korea: told you it was lag. everyone: *starts thread about people getting owned at homesoil*
Idra could have easily taken at least 3rd had he not given up. Thorzain also could have probably placed higher on a different day, same with Naniwa who pretty much /danced his way to a loss.
If anything I'd say that Columbus's close games pretty much proved the difference between Koreans and Foreigners is pretty small. Top Koreans aren't much better than top foreigners (yet), however, Korea has a much more robust scene for sure.
This is why foreign fanboys are so cute. Keep on deluding yourself, outside of the few games you mentioned, most weren't even close.
Hahah Korean elitist crap,
Only reason why the koreans are mass declining dreamhack is becuase they affraid to get there ass kicked by the top EU pro´s and they should be affraid considering Dimaga kicked the crap out of Nestea.
I woulnt be supriced if GomTv told the koreans players not to go becuase they affriad what would happend if all the koreans lost and they lose there little number 1 sc2 tournament.
Maybe not 10x but the post he was replying to was a lot more idiotic. How many more foreign events do koreans have to sweep before people get the picture? Too bad MKP isn't attending he finally could've won an event -_-. MC/Bomber will still take 1/2 tho unless they meet earlier on. The rest is up for grabs imo
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
TSL3 was online, which ends that argument.
No, it does not actually. Thanks for trying champ
yes it does, get out troll. 350 ping vs 30 ping.
try it.
ps:
TSL3: everyone: LOLOLOL 'white dudes own korea' Korea: but it was lag everyone: BUT YOU LOST! LOLOLOLOL.
MLG Columbus everyone: wow.... we are way behind the koreans... 1st/2nd/3rd all koreans. koreans only lost to koreans in columbus... wow. Korea: told you it was lag. everyone: *starts thread about people getting owned at homesoil*
Idra could have easily taken at least 3rd had he not given up. Thorzain also could have probably placed higher on a different day, same with Naniwa who pretty much /danced his way to a loss.
If anything I'd say that Columbus's close games pretty much proved the difference between Koreans and Foreigners is pretty small. Top Koreans aren't much better than top foreigners (yet), however, Korea has a much more robust scene for sure.
This is why foreign fanboys are so cute. Keep on deluding yourself, outside of the few games you mentioned, most weren't even close.
The few games I mentioned? What? People like you honestly baffle me, Idra could win a GSL and you would cry about how Koreans are still so much better with no real evidence.
Most of the games Idra lost during that tournament (to Koreans) were games he was winning, but just decided to leave because he is Idra. He was ahead vs. MMA and completely stomped MC.
Naniwa lost because he /danced and then because of a BO loss, not because he got outplayed.
Losira almost lost to iNcontrol, who I wouldn't label as the strongest foreigner (no offense to him) at MLG.
Jinro and Idra both performed well in the GSL, even though Idra was a lot worse back then. World Championship had the foreigners lose by only 1 game against a team with Nestea, MC, MvP, etc. on it, and the foreign team was quite weak in all honesty.
You'll just constantly make excuses for the Koreans so this is sort of a waste of time, but your logic isn't sound in any way. You're taking 1 event where Koreans BARELY managed to take 1/2/3 and then say "KOREANS ARE SO MUCH BETTER LOLOL."
With that being said, the difference between foreigners and Koreans won't remain small for long, as I can almost guarantee that the top Koreans are practicing much harder than top foreigners.
Maybe not 10x but the post he was replying to was a lot more idiotic. How many more foreign events do koreans have to sweep before people get the picture? Too bad MKP isn't attending he finally could've won an event -_-. MC/Bomber will still take 1/2 tho unless they meet earlier on. The rest is up for grabs imo
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
TSL3 was online, which ends that argument.
No, it does not actually. Thanks for trying champ
yes it does, get out troll. 350 ping vs 30 ping.
try it.
ps:
TSL3: everyone: LOLOLOL 'white dudes own korea' Korea: but it was lag everyone: BUT YOU LOST! LOLOLOLOL.
MLG Columbus everyone: wow.... we are way behind the koreans... 1st/2nd/3rd all koreans. koreans only lost to koreans in columbus... wow. Korea: told you it was lag. everyone: *starts thread about people getting owned at homesoil*
Idra could have easily taken at least 3rd had he not given up. Thorzain also could have probably placed higher on a different day, same with Naniwa who pretty much /danced his way to a loss.
If anything I'd say that Columbus's close games pretty much proved the difference between Koreans and Foreigners is pretty small. Top Koreans aren't much better than top foreigners (yet), however, Korea has a much more robust scene for sure.
This is why foreign fanboys are so cute. Keep on deluding yourself, outside of the few games you mentioned, most weren't even close.
Hahah Korean elitist crap,
Only reason why the koreans are mass declining dreamhack is becuase they affraid to get there ass kicked by the top EU pro´s and they should be affraid considering Dimaga kicked the crap out of Nestea.
I woulnt be supriced if GomTv told the koreans players not to go becuase they affriad what would happend if all the koreans lost and they lose there little number 1 sc2 tournament.
Rofl, usually I don't respond to the Korea vs. foreigners arguments but this one is just idiotic. Dimaga beat Nestea in one bo3. Would you say that Dimaga is better than a 2 time GSL winner? Koreans DO have a higher overall skill level. Think about how many foreigners went to korea to compete in GSL but didn't even get into code A. Incontrol, Kiwikaki, Select, and even Huk and Jinro couldn't get into the GSL first try. Top end foreigners can definitely compete with Koreans but the mid-tier foreigners probably can't compete in GSL.
Maybe not 10x but the post he was replying to was a lot more idiotic. How many more foreign events do koreans have to sweep before people get the picture? Too bad MKP isn't attending he finally could've won an event -_-. MC/Bomber will still take 1/2 tho unless they meet earlier on. The rest is up for grabs imo
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
TSL3 was online, which ends that argument.
No, it does not actually. Thanks for trying champ
yes it does, get out troll. 350 ping vs 30 ping.
try it.
ps:
TSL3: everyone: LOLOLOL 'white dudes own korea' Korea: but it was lag everyone: BUT YOU LOST! LOLOLOLOL.
MLG Columbus everyone: wow.... we are way behind the koreans... 1st/2nd/3rd all koreans. koreans only lost to koreans in columbus... wow. Korea: told you it was lag. everyone: *starts thread about people getting owned at homesoil*
Idra could have easily taken at least 3rd had he not given up. Thorzain also could have probably placed higher on a different day, same with Naniwa who pretty much /danced his way to a loss.
If anything I'd say that Columbus's close games pretty much proved the difference between Koreans and Foreigners is pretty small. Top Koreans aren't much better than top foreigners (yet), however, Korea has a much more robust scene for sure.
This is why foreign fanboys are so cute. Keep on deluding yourself, outside of the few games you mentioned, most weren't even close.
Hahah Korean elitist crap,
Only reason why the koreans are mass declining dreamhack is becuase they affraid to get there ass kicked by the top EU pro´s and they should be affraid considering Dimaga kicked the crap out of Nestea.
I woulnt be supriced if GomTv told the koreans players not to go becuase they affriad what would happend if all the koreans lost and they lose there little number 1 sc2 tournament.
You drunk? This post just spews retardation. Nestea is overall a better player than Dimaga. Dimaga wins 2 games on Nestea and all of a sudden the koreans fear the europeans? Get out of here.
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
TSL3 was online, which ends that argument.
No, it does not actually. Thanks for trying champ
yes it does, get out troll. 350 ping vs 30 ping.
try it.
ps:
TSL3: everyone: LOLOLOL 'white dudes own korea' Korea: but it was lag everyone: BUT YOU LOST! LOLOLOLOL.
MLG Columbus everyone: wow.... we are way behind the koreans... 1st/2nd/3rd all koreans. koreans only lost to koreans in columbus... wow. Korea: told you it was lag. everyone: *starts thread about people getting owned at homesoil*
Idra could have easily taken at least 3rd had he not given up. Thorzain also could have probably placed higher on a different day, same with Naniwa who pretty much /danced his way to a loss.
If anything I'd say that Columbus's close games pretty much proved the difference between Koreans and Foreigners is pretty small. Top Koreans aren't much better than top foreigners (yet), however, Korea has a much more robust scene for sure.
This is why foreign fanboys are so cute. Keep on deluding yourself, outside of the few games you mentioned, most weren't even close.
Hahah Korean elitist crap,
Only reason why the koreans are mass declining dreamhack is becuase they affraid to get there ass kicked by the top EU pro´s and they should be affraid considering Dimaga kicked the crap out of Nestea.
I woulnt be supriced if GomTv told the koreans players not to go becuase they affriad what would happend if all the koreans lost and they lose there little number 1 sc2 tournament.
Rofl, usually I don't respond to the Korea vs. foreigners arguments but this one is just idiotic. Dimaga beat Nestea in one bo3. Would you say that Dimaga is better than a 2 time GSL winner? Koreans DO have a higher overall skill level. Think about how many foreigners went to korea to compete in GSL but didn't even get into code A. Incontrol, Kiwikaki, Select, and even Huk and Jinro couldn't get into the GSL first try. Top end foreigners can definitely compete with Koreans but the mid-tier foreigners probably can't compete in GSL.
DRG, who has beaten the likes of MVP and such hasn't gotten into GSL either, gonna bank part of those on the fact that the qualifiers are very random. MMA still isn't in code S and he's got a shot to win the ST.
But, like I said, nobody will deny that Koreans have a much more robust scene, or even better top players. But the difference in skill between top players is small at best.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
TSL3 was online, which ends that argument.
No, it does not actually. Thanks for trying champ
yes it does, get out troll. 350 ping vs 30 ping.
try it.
ps:
TSL3: everyone: LOLOLOL 'white dudes own korea' Korea: but it was lag everyone: BUT YOU LOST! LOLOLOLOL.
MLG Columbus everyone: wow.... we are way behind the koreans... 1st/2nd/3rd all koreans. koreans only lost to koreans in columbus... wow. Korea: told you it was lag. everyone: *starts thread about people getting owned at homesoil*
Idra could have easily taken at least 3rd had he not given up. Thorzain also could have probably placed higher on a different day, same with Naniwa who pretty much /danced his way to a loss.
If anything I'd say that Columbus's close games pretty much proved the difference between Koreans and Foreigners is pretty small. Top Koreans aren't much better than top foreigners (yet), however, Korea has a much more robust scene for sure.
This is why foreign fanboys are so cute. Keep on deluding yourself, outside of the few games you mentioned, most weren't even close.
Hahah Korean elitist crap,
Only reason why the koreans are mass declining dreamhack is becuase they affraid to get there ass kicked by the top EU pro´s and they should be affraid considering Dimaga kicked the crap out of Nestea.
I woulnt be supriced if GomTv told the koreans players not to go becuase they affriad what would happend if all the koreans lost and they lose there little number 1 sc2 tournament.
Rofl, usually I don't respond to the Korea vs. foreigners arguments but this one is just idiotic. Dimaga beat Nestea in one bo3. Would you say that Dimaga is better than a 2 time GSL winner? Koreans DO have a higher overall skill level. Think about how many foreigners went to korea to compete in GSL but didn't even get into code A. Incontrol, Kiwikaki, Select, and even Huk and Jinro couldn't get into the GSL first try. Top end foreigners can definitely compete with Koreans but the mid-tier foreigners probably can't compete in GSL.
DRG, who has beaten the likes of MVP and such hasn't gotten into GSL either, gonna bank part of those on the fact that the qualifiers are very random. MMA still isn't in code S and he's got a shot to win the ST.
But, like I said, nobody will deny that Koreans have a much more robust scene, or even better top players. But the difference in skill between top players is small at best.
Between the top players, it's small. Overall, it's a decent size. But at this rate, it seems like the gaps only growing wider.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
TSL3 was online, which ends that argument.
No, it does not actually. Thanks for trying champ
yes it does, get out troll. 350 ping vs 30 ping.
try it.
ps:
TSL3: everyone: LOLOLOL 'white dudes own korea' Korea: but it was lag everyone: BUT YOU LOST! LOLOLOLOL.
MLG Columbus everyone: wow.... we are way behind the koreans... 1st/2nd/3rd all koreans. koreans only lost to koreans in columbus... wow. Korea: told you it was lag. everyone: *starts thread about people getting owned at homesoil*
Idra could have easily taken at least 3rd had he not given up. Thorzain also could have probably placed higher on a different day, same with Naniwa who pretty much /danced his way to a loss.
If anything I'd say that Columbus's close games pretty much proved the difference between Koreans and Foreigners is pretty small. Top Koreans aren't much better than top foreigners (yet), however, Korea has a much more robust scene for sure.
This is why foreign fanboys are so cute. Keep on deluding yourself, outside of the few games you mentioned, most weren't even close.
Hahah Korean elitist crap,
Only reason why the koreans are mass declining dreamhack is becuase they affraid to get there ass kicked by the top EU pro´s and they should be affraid considering Dimaga kicked the crap out of Nestea.
I woulnt be supriced if GomTv told the koreans players not to go becuase they affriad what would happend if all the koreans lost and they lose there little number 1 sc2 tournament.
Rofl, usually I don't respond to the Korea vs. foreigners arguments but this one is just idiotic. Dimaga beat Nestea in one bo3. Would you say that Dimaga is better than a 2 time GSL winner? Koreans DO have a higher overall skill level. Think about how many foreigners went to korea to compete in GSL but didn't even get into code A. Incontrol, Kiwikaki, Select, and even Huk and Jinro couldn't get into the GSL first try. Top end foreigners can definitely compete with Koreans but the mid-tier foreigners probably can't compete in GSL.
DRG, who has beaten the likes of MVP and such hasn't gotten into GSL either, gonna bank part of those on the fact that the qualifiers are very random. MMA still isn't in code S and he's got a shot to win the ST.
But, like I said, nobody will deny that Koreans have a much more robust scene, or even better top players. But the difference in skill between top players is small at best.
On June 15 2011 03:53 Maliris wrote: [quote] nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
TSL3 was online, which ends that argument.
No, it does not actually. Thanks for trying champ
yes it does, get out troll. 350 ping vs 30 ping.
try it.
ps:
TSL3: everyone: LOLOLOL 'white dudes own korea' Korea: but it was lag everyone: BUT YOU LOST! LOLOLOLOL.
MLG Columbus everyone: wow.... we are way behind the koreans... 1st/2nd/3rd all koreans. koreans only lost to koreans in columbus... wow. Korea: told you it was lag. everyone: *starts thread about people getting owned at homesoil*
Idra could have easily taken at least 3rd had he not given up. Thorzain also could have probably placed higher on a different day, same with Naniwa who pretty much /danced his way to a loss.
If anything I'd say that Columbus's close games pretty much proved the difference between Koreans and Foreigners is pretty small. Top Koreans aren't much better than top foreigners (yet), however, Korea has a much more robust scene for sure.
This is why foreign fanboys are so cute. Keep on deluding yourself, outside of the few games you mentioned, most weren't even close.
Hahah Korean elitist crap,
Only reason why the koreans are mass declining dreamhack is becuase they affraid to get there ass kicked by the top EU pro´s and they should be affraid considering Dimaga kicked the crap out of Nestea.
I woulnt be supriced if GomTv told the koreans players not to go becuase they affriad what would happend if all the koreans lost and they lose there little number 1 sc2 tournament.
Rofl, usually I don't respond to the Korea vs. foreigners arguments but this one is just idiotic. Dimaga beat Nestea in one bo3. Would you say that Dimaga is better than a 2 time GSL winner? Koreans DO have a higher overall skill level. Think about how many foreigners went to korea to compete in GSL but didn't even get into code A. Incontrol, Kiwikaki, Select, and even Huk and Jinro couldn't get into the GSL first try. Top end foreigners can definitely compete with Koreans but the mid-tier foreigners probably can't compete in GSL.
DRG, who has beaten the likes of MVP and such hasn't gotten into GSL either, gonna bank part of those on the fact that the qualifiers are very random. MMA still isn't in code S and he's got a shot to win the ST.
But, like I said, nobody will deny that Koreans have a much more robust scene, or even better top players. But the difference in skill between top players is small at best.
You mistaken MVP with MKP
I meant MC actually, don't know why I typed MVP. But yeah, he's beaten a lot of top players in the team league but hasn't even made Code A.
On June 15 2011 03:53 Maliris wrote: [quote] nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
TSL3 was online, which ends that argument.
No, it does not actually. Thanks for trying champ
yes it does, get out troll. 350 ping vs 30 ping.
try it.
ps:
TSL3: everyone: LOLOLOL 'white dudes own korea' Korea: but it was lag everyone: BUT YOU LOST! LOLOLOLOL.
MLG Columbus everyone: wow.... we are way behind the koreans... 1st/2nd/3rd all koreans. koreans only lost to koreans in columbus... wow. Korea: told you it was lag. everyone: *starts thread about people getting owned at homesoil*
Idra could have easily taken at least 3rd had he not given up. Thorzain also could have probably placed higher on a different day, same with Naniwa who pretty much /danced his way to a loss.
If anything I'd say that Columbus's close games pretty much proved the difference between Koreans and Foreigners is pretty small. Top Koreans aren't much better than top foreigners (yet), however, Korea has a much more robust scene for sure.
This is why foreign fanboys are so cute. Keep on deluding yourself, outside of the few games you mentioned, most weren't even close.
Hahah Korean elitist crap,
Only reason why the koreans are mass declining dreamhack is becuase they affraid to get there ass kicked by the top EU pro´s and they should be affraid considering Dimaga kicked the crap out of Nestea.
I woulnt be supriced if GomTv told the koreans players not to go becuase they affriad what would happend if all the koreans lost and they lose there little number 1 sc2 tournament.
Rofl, usually I don't respond to the Korea vs. foreigners arguments but this one is just idiotic. Dimaga beat Nestea in one bo3. Would you say that Dimaga is better than a 2 time GSL winner? Koreans DO have a higher overall skill level. Think about how many foreigners went to korea to compete in GSL but didn't even get into code A. Incontrol, Kiwikaki, Select, and even Huk and Jinro couldn't get into the GSL first try. Top end foreigners can definitely compete with Koreans but the mid-tier foreigners probably can't compete in GSL.
DRG, who has beaten the likes of MVP and such hasn't gotten into GSL either, gonna bank part of those on the fact that the qualifiers are very random. MMA still isn't in code S and he's got a shot to win the ST.
But, like I said, nobody will deny that Koreans have a much more robust scene, or even better top players. But the difference in skill between top players is small at best.
Between the top players, it's small. Overall, it's a decent size. But at this rate, it seems like the gaps only growing wider.
Of course, the Koreans practice much harder and more efficiently than foreigners. It's a lot easier to get good practice when you have 200 good players than when you have 20 good players. Team houses and such just add onto it, but the gap still isn't huge yet.
Maybe not 10x but the post he was replying to was a lot more idiotic. How many more foreign events do koreans have to sweep before people get the picture? Too bad MKP isn't attending he finally could've won an event -_-. MC/Bomber will still take 1/2 tho unless they meet earlier on. The rest is up for grabs imo
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
TSL3 was online, which ends that argument.
No, it does not actually. Thanks for trying champ
yes it does, get out troll. 350 ping vs 30 ping.
try it.
ps:
TSL3: everyone: LOLOLOL 'white dudes own korea' Korea: but it was lag everyone: BUT YOU LOST! LOLOLOLOL.
MLG Columbus everyone: wow.... we are way behind the koreans... 1st/2nd/3rd all koreans. koreans only lost to koreans in columbus... wow. Korea: told you it was lag. everyone: *starts thread about people getting owned at homesoil*
Idra could have easily taken at least 3rd had he not given up. Thorzain also could have probably placed higher on a different day, same with Naniwa who pretty much /danced his way to a loss.
If anything I'd say that Columbus's close games pretty much proved the difference between Koreans and Foreigners is pretty small. Top Koreans aren't much better than top foreigners (yet), however, Korea has a much more robust scene for sure.
This is why foreign fanboys are so cute. Keep on deluding yourself, outside of the few games you mentioned, most weren't even close.
The few games I mentioned? What? People like you honestly baffle me, Idra could win a GSL and you would cry about how Koreans are still so much better with no real evidence.
Most of the games Idra lost during that tournament (to Koreans) were games he was winning, but just decided to leave because he is Idra. He was ahead vs. MMA and completely stomped MC.
Naniwa lost because he /danced and then because of a BO loss, not because he got outplayed.
Losira almost lost to iNcontrol, who I wouldn't label as the strongest foreigner (no offense to him) at MLG.
Jinro and Idra both performed well in the GSL, even though Idra was a lot worse back then. World Championship had the foreigners lose by only 1 game against a team with Nestea, MC, MvP, etc. on it, and the foreign team was quite weak in all honesty.
You'll just constantly make excuses for the Koreans so this is sort of a waste of time, but your logic isn't sound in any way. You're taking 1 event where Koreans BARELY managed to take 1/2/3 and then say "KOREANS ARE SO MUCH BETTER LOLOL."
With that being said, the difference between foreigners and Koreans won't remain small for long, as I can almost guarantee that the top Koreans are practicing much harder than top foreigners.
Koreans have taken 1/2/3 at soooo many events with Koreans and foreigners.
MLG, GSL World Championship, all those FXO tournaments. MC even took Starswar which was stacked with top foreigner, Korean and Chinese players.
Whoever denies that Koreans are well ahead of foreigners in SC2 is greatly deluded.
Code S is at least 10x as stacked as Dreamhack. You have a few star koreans + some star foreigners + some no name/average foreigners. Hardly anywhere as stacked as any korean tournament.
If you're going to pull numbers, be realistic.
Maybe not 10x but the post he was replying to was a lot more idiotic. How many more foreign events do koreans have to sweep before people get the picture? Too bad MKP isn't attending he finally could've won an event -_-. MC/Bomber will still take 1/2 tho unless they meet earlier on. The rest is up for grabs imo
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
TSL3 was online, which ends that argument.
No, it does not actually. Thanks for trying champ
yes it does, get out troll. 350 ping vs 30 ping.
try it.
ps:
TSL3: everyone: LOLOLOL 'white dudes own korea' Korea: but it was lag everyone: BUT YOU LOST! LOLOLOLOL.
MLG Columbus everyone: wow.... we are way behind the koreans... 1st/2nd/3rd all koreans. koreans only lost to koreans in columbus... wow. Korea: told you it was lag. everyone: *starts thread about people getting owned at homesoil*
Idra could have easily taken at least 3rd had he not given up. Thorzain also could have probably placed higher on a different day, same with Naniwa who pretty much /danced his way to a loss.
If anything I'd say that Columbus's close games pretty much proved the difference between Koreans and Foreigners is pretty small. Top Koreans aren't much better than top foreigners (yet), however, Korea has a much more robust scene for sure.
I'm an Idra fan, but even if he tried I doubt he'd have taken 3rd, much less easily taken it. If MMA would've lost the first game, it would only be due to blowing his own expansion up, otherwise he was way ahead. His heavy drop marine-tank style is suited perfectly against Idra's, I don't see him beating it in his current state.
If you were referring to his MC games though, don't know. Even with the 2-0 lead that was up in the air.
Anyway, when we talk about Korea vs foreigners (the training / why they're good, not the races), Idra really belongs in the Korea camp. He's as good as he is because he trained there for freggin 3 years.
I honestly don't think koreans are as far ahead as most people think, and I most definitely think that top foreigners can throw down with top Koreans any day. Koreans would probably overall have a fairly good record, but it wouldn't be one sided. It's not BW. Also there are alot of good foreigners at these tournaments that don't show up. Where's Dimaga for instance? His ZvZ especially is friggin godly. I still jizz just when I think of when I watched him maul Nestea, the previously, in ZVZ, undefeated champion of GSL. He hadn't even dropped a single game.
Look at Thorzain vs MC in the TSL. To me that was really close, and I highly doubt any of them suffered badly from the lag considering the stellar play shown from both sides.
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
TSL3 was online, which ends that argument.
No, it does not actually. Thanks for trying champ
yes it does, get out troll. 350 ping vs 30 ping.
try it.
ps:
TSL3: everyone: LOLOLOL 'white dudes own korea' Korea: but it was lag everyone: BUT YOU LOST! LOLOLOLOL.
MLG Columbus everyone: wow.... we are way behind the koreans... 1st/2nd/3rd all koreans. koreans only lost to koreans in columbus... wow. Korea: told you it was lag. everyone: *starts thread about people getting owned at homesoil*
Idra could have easily taken at least 3rd had he not given up. Thorzain also could have probably placed higher on a different day, same with Naniwa who pretty much /danced his way to a loss.
If anything I'd say that Columbus's close games pretty much proved the difference between Koreans and Foreigners is pretty small. Top Koreans aren't much better than top foreigners (yet), however, Korea has a much more robust scene for sure.
This is why foreign fanboys are so cute. Keep on deluding yourself, outside of the few games you mentioned, most weren't even close.
The few games I mentioned? What? People like you honestly baffle me, Idra could win a GSL and you would cry about how Koreans are still so much better with no real evidence.
Most of the games Idra lost during that tournament (to Koreans) were games he was winning, but just decided to leave because he is Idra. He was ahead vs. MMA and completely stomped MC.
Naniwa lost because he /danced and then because of a BO loss, not because he got outplayed.
Losira almost lost to iNcontrol, who I wouldn't label as the strongest foreigner (no offense to him) at MLG.
Jinro and Idra both performed well in the GSL, even though Idra was a lot worse back then. World Championship had the foreigners lose by only 1 game against a team with Nestea, MC, MvP, etc. on it, and the foreign team was quite weak in all honesty.
You'll just constantly make excuses for the Koreans so this is sort of a waste of time, but your logic isn't sound in any way. You're taking 1 event where Koreans BARELY managed to take 1/2/3 and then say "KOREANS ARE SO MUCH BETTER LOLOL."
With that being said, the difference between foreigners and Koreans won't remain small for long, as I can almost guarantee that the top Koreans are practicing much harder than top foreigners.
Koreans have taken 1/2/3 at soooo many events with Koreans and foreigners.
MLG, GSL World Championship, all those FXO tournaments. MC even took Starswar which was stacked with top foreigner, Korean and Chinese players.
Whoever denies that Koreans are well ahead of foreigners in SC2 is greatly deluded.
Like I said, MLG was almost completely because of Idra raging and losing it for himself, if you honestly saw a huge difference in skill between him and MC/Losira/July then I don't know what to say. The same can be said for
The world championship lacked a LOT of the top foreigners and had a huge number of good Koreans. I mean, you're actually using a tournament that lacked Naniwa, Idra, Thorzain, etc. as grounds for saying Koreans > foreigners? Like, really?
And starswar had Nestea knocked out in the first round by someone most have never heard of, it also had another foreigner in the finals instead of Nestea, Lyn, Genius, and the rest of the Koreans.
Like I said, I won't say that foreigners are completely equal to top Koreans (although I think Idra could be if he didn't ragequit every time he lost a Zergling) it is delusional to say that there is a huge skill gap when we're still seeing 2x GSL winners knocked out by non-top foreigners.
Why is it that all threads somehow degenerate into pointless debate on who's better??? Does it really matter? I for 1 am just going to enjoy the high quality play that we'll obviously be seeing, regardless of who ultimately wins....
I mean, Koreans may be ahead today, tmr it may be some European, some later time in the future the game might be dominated by the Chinese for all we know...There is always some1 better out there, more so in SC2 since its such a global game...
Wait, when have we seen 2x gsl winners knocked out by non-top foreigners? Mc..mvp..nestea. Which of these 3 were knocked out by an average foreigner in any lan?
I think there surely is some place elsewhere you could discuss this really interesting korean scene vs. foreigner scene stuff ? Anyways quiet unfortunate I'm still more interested in possible replacements than this pointless discussion.
On June 15 2011 08:49 Whoranzone wrote: I think there surely is some place elsewhere you could discuss this really interesting korean scene vs. foreigner scene stuff ? Anyways quiet unfortunate I'm still more interested in possible replacements than this pointless discussion.
Not really anything to discuss. It's basically rational people vs delusional potheads. However big or small the gap is, there is one that exists for sure.
On topic...I want mvp and nestea to be sent out =)
And when MC bomber, julyzerg get beat in Dreamhack by some of the newest European talant all these elitist korean asslickers gonan have alot of excuses they had lag there computers was hacked they had jetlaged you cant win vs these people.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
TSL3 was online, which ends that argument.
No, it does not actually. Thanks for trying champ
yes it does, get out troll. 350 ping vs 30 ping.
try it.
ps:
TSL3: everyone: LOLOLOL 'white dudes own korea' Korea: but it was lag everyone: BUT YOU LOST! LOLOLOLOL.
MLG Columbus everyone: wow.... we are way behind the koreans... 1st/2nd/3rd all koreans. koreans only lost to koreans in columbus... wow. Korea: told you it was lag. everyone: *starts thread about people getting owned at homesoil*
Idra could have easily taken at least 3rd had he not given up. Thorzain also could have probably placed higher on a different day, same with Naniwa who pretty much /danced his way to a loss.
If anything I'd say that Columbus's close games pretty much proved the difference between Koreans and Foreigners is pretty small. Top Koreans aren't much better than top foreigners (yet), however, Korea has a much more robust scene for sure.
This is why foreign fanboys are so cute. Keep on deluding yourself, outside of the few games you mentioned, most weren't even close.
The few games I mentioned? What? People like you honestly baffle me, Idra could win a GSL and you would cry about how Koreans are still so much better with no real evidence.
Most of the games Idra lost during that tournament (to Koreans) were games he was winning, but just decided to leave because he is Idra. He was ahead vs. MMA and completely stomped MC.
Naniwa lost because he /danced and then because of a BO loss, not because he got outplayed.
Losira almost lost to iNcontrol, who I wouldn't label as the strongest foreigner (no offense to him) at MLG.
Jinro and Idra both performed well in the GSL, even though Idra was a lot worse back then. World Championship had the foreigners lose by only 1 game against a team with Nestea, MC, MvP, etc. on it, and the foreign team was quite weak in all honesty.
You'll just constantly make excuses for the Koreans so this is sort of a waste of time, but your logic isn't sound in any way. You're taking 1 event where Koreans BARELY managed to take 1/2/3 and then say "KOREANS ARE SO MUCH BETTER LOLOL."
With that being said, the difference between foreigners and Koreans won't remain small for long, as I can almost guarantee that the top Koreans are practicing much harder than top foreigners.
Koreans have taken 1/2/3 at soooo many events with Koreans and foreigners.
MLG, GSL World Championship, all those FXO tournaments. MC even took Starswar which was stacked with top foreigner, Korean and Chinese players.
Whoever denies that Koreans are well ahead of foreigners in SC2 is greatly deluded.
Like I said, MLG was almost completely because of Idra raging and losing it for himself, if you honestly saw a huge difference in skill between him and MC/Losira/July then I don't know what to say. The same can be said for
The world championship lacked a LOT of the top foreigners and had a huge number of good Koreans. I mean, you're actually using a tournament that lacked Naniwa, Idra, Thorzain, etc. as grounds for saying Koreans > foreigners? Like, really?
And starswar had Nestea knocked out in the first round by someone most have never heard of, it also had another foreigner in the finals instead of Nestea, Lyn, Genius, and the rest of the Koreans.
Like I said, I won't say that foreigners are completely equal to top Koreans (although I think Idra could be if he didn't ragequit every time he lost a Zergling) it is delusional to say that there is a huge skill gap when we're still seeing 2x GSL winners knocked out by non-top foreigners.
keeping your cool in the middle of a match with a lot of money on the line is a skill in and of itself
idra consistently cracks under pressure and i don't see that changing any time soon
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
TSL3 was online, which ends that argument.
No, it does not actually. Thanks for trying champ
yes it does, get out troll. 350 ping vs 30 ping.
try it.
ps:
TSL3: everyone: LOLOLOL 'white dudes own korea' Korea: but it was lag everyone: BUT YOU LOST! LOLOLOLOL.
MLG Columbus everyone: wow.... we are way behind the koreans... 1st/2nd/3rd all koreans. koreans only lost to koreans in columbus... wow. Korea: told you it was lag. everyone: *starts thread about people getting owned at homesoil*
Idra could have easily taken at least 3rd had he not given up. Thorzain also could have probably placed higher on a different day, same with Naniwa who pretty much /danced his way to a loss.
If anything I'd say that Columbus's close games pretty much proved the difference between Koreans and Foreigners is pretty small. Top Koreans aren't much better than top foreigners (yet), however, Korea has a much more robust scene for sure.
This is why foreign fanboys are so cute. Keep on deluding yourself, outside of the few games you mentioned, most weren't even close.
The few games I mentioned? What? People like you honestly baffle me, Idra could win a GSL and you would cry about how Koreans are still so much better with no real evidence.
Most of the games Idra lost during that tournament (to Koreans) were games he was winning, but just decided to leave because he is Idra. He was ahead vs. MMA and completely stomped MC.
Naniwa lost because he /danced and then because of a BO loss, not because he got outplayed.
Losira almost lost to iNcontrol, who I wouldn't label as the strongest foreigner (no offense to him) at MLG.
Jinro and Idra both performed well in the GSL, even though Idra was a lot worse back then. World Championship had the foreigners lose by only 1 game against a team with Nestea, MC, MvP, etc. on it, and the foreign team was quite weak in all honesty.
You'll just constantly make excuses for the Koreans so this is sort of a waste of time, but your logic isn't sound in any way. You're taking 1 event where Koreans BARELY managed to take 1/2/3 and then say "KOREANS ARE SO MUCH BETTER LOLOL."
With that being said, the difference between foreigners and Koreans won't remain small for long, as I can almost guarantee that the top Koreans are practicing much harder than top foreigners.
Koreans have taken 1/2/3 at soooo many events with Koreans and foreigners.
MLG, GSL World Championship, all those FXO tournaments. MC even took Starswar which was stacked with top foreigner, Korean and Chinese players.
Whoever denies that Koreans are well ahead of foreigners in SC2 is greatly deluded.
Like I said, MLG was almost completely because of Idra raging and losing it for himself, if you honestly saw a huge difference in skill between him and MC/Losira/July then I don't know what to say. The same can be said for
The world championship lacked a LOT of the top foreigners and had a huge number of good Koreans. I mean, you're actually using a tournament that lacked Naniwa, Idra, Thorzain, etc. as grounds for saying Koreans > foreigners? Like, really?
And starswar had Nestea knocked out in the first round by someone most have never heard of, it also had another foreigner in the finals instead of Nestea, Lyn, Genius, and the rest of the Koreans.
Like I said, I won't say that foreigners are completely equal to top Koreans (although I think Idra could be if he didn't ragequit every time he lost a Zergling) it is delusional to say that there is a huge skill gap when we're still seeing 2x GSL winners knocked out by non-top foreigners.
On June 15 2011 09:02 Nerdslayer wrote: And when MC bomber, julyzerg get beat in Dreamhack by some of the newest European talant all these elitist korean asslickers gonan have alot of excuses they had lag there computers was hacked they had jetlaged you cant win vs these people.
Cant win vs these people? Dude look in the mirror. You make it sound like koreans dont win anything and ppl make excuses despite that. Koreans have won most of the to urneys thats a fact. Not opinion. You talk like some random euro winning is a done deal and you call ppl wih a rational opinion based on facts asslickers.
Nobody is saying a non korean cant win. Its ppl like you just trying to discredit koreans and make excuses for non koreans
Your hate for koreans is so transparent just come out and admit it
Code S is at least 10x as stacked as Dreamhack. You have a few star koreans + some star foreigners + some no name/average foreigners. Hardly anywhere as stacked as any korean tournament.
If you're going to pull numbers, be realistic.
Maybe not 10x but the post he was replying to was a lot more idiotic. How many more foreign events do koreans have to sweep before people get the picture? Too bad MKP isn't attending he finally could've won an event -_-. MC/Bomber will still take 1/2 tho unless they meet earlier on. The rest is up for grabs imo
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
TSL3 was online, which ends that argument.
No, it does not actually. Thanks for trying champ
yes it does, get out troll. 350 ping vs 30 ping.
try it.
ps:
TSL3: everyone: LOLOLOL 'white dudes own korea' Korea: but it was lag everyone: BUT YOU LOST! LOLOLOLOL.
MLG Columbus everyone: wow.... we are way behind the koreans... 1st/2nd/3rd all koreans. koreans only lost to koreans in columbus... wow. Korea: told you it was lag. everyone: *starts thread about people getting owned at homesoil*
Idra could have easily taken at least 3rd had he not given up. Thorzain also could have probably placed higher on a different day, same with Naniwa who pretty much /danced his way to a loss.
If anything I'd say that Columbus's close games pretty much proved the difference between Koreans and Foreigners is pretty small. Top Koreans aren't much better than top foreigners (yet), however, Korea has a much more robust scene for sure.
IdrA would have lost that game if MMA hadn't destroyed his own command center, that is what people seem to be forgetting completely. IdrA would have won due to his opponent making a misclick, not because of his own personal skill. He left because he thought that MMA hadn't destroyed it, hence if MMA hadn't made that mistake he WOULD have won. Hence MMA IS superior, just because IdrA could've taken the game doesn't mean he played better than MMA in any way.
Naniwa had lost either way, the dark shrine was finished. There was no way to take it down before DTs were warped in and even if you unpower the dark shrine you can still make DTs.
I like how the people that are saying the foreigners are on par with the Koreans keeps bringing up the same few examples where the Foreigners beat Korean or random online tournament where Koreans are playing with lag/time disadvantages.
Seriously, if you were to bring the top 10 Korean right now and have them play 100 Bo5's against the top 10 Foreigners, at this very moment, how many of you would actually dare to come out and have the confidence to say that they would go 50/50?
And yea, Stage experience, ability to keep your head cool and not tilt, etc, is also a big factor that alot of these pro-foreigner fans never seem to consider. Sure, these traits make the Koreans "machine" and less interesting to watch from viewer's point of view, but it is also one of the reasons that makes the Koreans better.
Seeing MarineKingPrime at a foreigner LAN would have been awesome. I don't think foreigners are prepared for his aggressive micro play. Missing out on both MKP and the Genius Terran, NaDa, is truly disappointing.
Maybe they can get BoxeR to come to this tournament? He was originally invited to the Dreamhack Invitationals.
On June 15 2011 04:37 Maliris wrote: Korean fanboys are adorable ^_^ koreans always say in interviews theres no difference between a korean and a foreigner, are you gonna tell them they are clueless too ? Keep trying
yes, Korean are very polite and let their wins do the talking
and is MKP not coming because he's practicing with Polt for GSL final ?
On June 15 2011 11:30 bahl sofs tiil wrote: Man, any info in these 18 pages about why MarineKing isn't going? I really don't get to watch that little guy play enough.
I think someone mentioned that he was going to help polt practice for GSTL or something. It's hard to find any relevant information when all people talk about is Koreans vs Europeans.
The koreans will get stomped. The real talent is in Europe...namely Sweden. Koreans were just lucky until now. The gap isn't as wide as you all think. Korea's reign is OVER.
Maybe not 10x but the post he was replying to was a lot more idiotic. How many more foreign events do koreans have to sweep before people get the picture? Too bad MKP isn't attending he finally could've won an event -_-. MC/Bomber will still take 1/2 tho unless they meet earlier on. The rest is up for grabs imo
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
TSL3 was online, which ends that argument.
No, it does not actually. Thanks for trying champ
yes it does, get out troll. 350 ping vs 30 ping.
try it.
ps:
TSL3: everyone: LOLOLOL 'white dudes own korea' Korea: but it was lag everyone: BUT YOU LOST! LOLOLOLOL.
MLG Columbus everyone: wow.... we are way behind the koreans... 1st/2nd/3rd all koreans. koreans only lost to koreans in columbus... wow. Korea: told you it was lag. everyone: *starts thread about people getting owned at homesoil*
Idra could have easily taken at least 3rd had he not given up. Thorzain also could have probably placed higher on a different day, same with Naniwa who pretty much /danced his way to a loss.
If anything I'd say that Columbus's close games pretty much proved the difference between Koreans and Foreigners is pretty small. Top Koreans aren't much better than top foreigners (yet), however, Korea has a much more robust scene for sure.
This is why foreign fanboys are so cute. Keep on deluding yourself, outside of the few games you mentioned, most weren't even close.
The few games I mentioned? What? People like you honestly baffle me, Idra could win a GSL and you would cry about how Koreans are still so much better with no real evidence.
Most of the games Idra lost during that tournament (to Koreans) were games he was winning, but just decided to leave because he is Idra. He was ahead vs. MMA and completely stomped MC.
yeah, idrA can be considered Korean since he practice over there for three years and do the same practice routine (10+ hours per day) that none the foreigener do
Naniwa lost because he /danced and then because of a BO loss, not because he got outplayed.
yes, he danced when he's not 100% winning. say something about the different mentality between them isnt it ?
Losira almost lost to iNcontrol, who I wouldn't label as the strongest foreigner (no offense to him) at MLG.
playing with faulty keyboard in game 1 and mouse only on game 2
Jinro and Idra both performed well in the GSL, even though Idra was a lot worse back then. World Championship had the foreigners lose by only 1 game against a team with Nestea, MC, MvP, etc. on it, and the foreign team was quite weak in all honesty.
Jinro and idrA practice the same way as the Korean and that show in their result also Jinro was one of the first to come up with macro terran style back then when nobody else have a way of dealing with it but now that everybody else have start to do the same he started to fade (quoted from idrA on inside the game)
the WC tournament team games is a showmatch. Thats why the korean send their (arguably) 4 weakest player on day 1, if they start with July,MC, MVP, Nestea on day 1 there wont be a day 2
You'll just constantly make excuses for the Koreans so this is sort of a waste of time, but your logic isn't sound in any way. You're taking 1 event where Koreans BARELY managed to take 1/2/3 and then say "KOREANS ARE SO MUCH BETTER LOLOL."
if by barely you mean got the top 3 and only got eliminated by a fellow korean
With that being said, the difference between foreigners and Koreans won't remain small for long, as I can almost guarantee that the top Koreans are practicing much harder than top foreigners.
all the Korean (except maybe FruitDealer, he need to stop drinking) are practicing much harder than top foreigners
On June 15 2011 12:28 thepuppyassassin wrote: The koreans will get stomped. The real talent is in Europe...namely Sweden. Koreans were just lucky until now. The gap isn't as wide as you all think. Korea's reign is OVER.
Mind providing some evidence that Koreans were just lucky?
Or maybe they practice more, train in team houses under coaches, are more dedicated, have sacrificed more . . . .
than your Swedish amateurs. I'm hesitant to even call them progamers because they really aren't.
Ahhh, if i was a Swede i'd be devastated, two of my favourite koreans
As a stream viewer, i'm more bummed about MKP. I find his style really entertaining.
Not at all bummed about Inca and AP. Unimpressive protoss players to say the least. In fact its a good thing to me, because if any koreans are gonna go to a foreign tournament and crush nerds (or get crushed) i want it to be good all round ones like MC and Bomber. Inca and AP are anything but in my view.
Really excited to see how a large pool of Euros stacks up against arguably the best terran and definitely the best protoss going around. So i pray those two make it on the plane >_<
damn... well i hope they all join next one, and wheres MVP i hope he joins too with NesTea losira and the rest as well start participating in non-korean tournys.
On June 15 2011 13:23 nakedsurfer wrote: This is a huge bummer but i think as long as mc, bomber and july go i'll still be happy. on a side note...did mma not want to go or not invited
The GSL Super Tounament Finals is on the first day of dreamhack, I dont think he can be at 2 places at once sorry
Finding out that these two events (gsl super tourny and dreamhack) have scheduling conflicts make me a sad panda. After reading who was out, I couldnt help but remember the crowd at MLG screaming MMA MMA. Sad to see he wont be there.
I cannot help but laugh at all the people that honestly do not see a true disparity between top tier foreigner skill and top tier Korean skill.
1. To all the kids that constantly reference Dimaga beating Nestea, Idra's Ro8, and Jinro's double Ro4, stop. Really just stop, you are embarassing yourself. That is as relevant as referencing Fruitdealer's GSL 1 run and claiming that because of those specific games he is a top level zerg (which i do not consider him one). All of those, with the exception of Dimaga vs Nestea (even that was a while ago) WERE MONTHS AGO. The game has changed VASTLY. Look at Jinro, he is stuck in the past. Sure it may have been good BACK THEN, but the Koreans have evolved at a terrifying speed. Where is Jinro in all this? He's stuck with his terrible losing streak. As for IdrA, what has he done? Stomped Americans in IPL? Gone 6-3 in NASL? Tilting against real players in MLG? Cute.
Also to Dimaga vs Nestea. Keep these points in mind. The Koreans walked in the WC expecting to ROLL these kids. They didn't have specific builds outside of the usual, nothing new, nothing special. In fact many of them hid their trained builds for the ACTUAL GSL. Dimaga and the majority of the foreigners came into the WC with practiced builds to snipe all the top koreans. The Majority of the koreans admitted that they had no idea who the majority of those foreigners were.
2. Everyone foreigner that has come to a korean event has almost been stomped into the dust and then driven out. Jinro could not sustain his spot, nor could MoonGlade and Ret. Huk barely made it through but for how long? The thing is the Koreans improve at an UNFATHOMABLE RATE, and with a consistency that is just damn frightening. MakaPrime, Poltprime, Nhs_san, MMA, DRG, Losira, Inca, Zenio, July, Top, SC; ALL of them were thought to be one trick ponies. Now they are all pretty damn consistent, the majority of them holding S class (which is damn hard to sustain).
3. People note how top foreigners can hold their own against top Koreans. Ya, MAYBE in 1 Bo5, but who are these top foreigners people constantly mention? ThorZain, Naniwa, IdrA (and now Nerchio/Dimaga/etc). Yes, Thorzain, Naniwa, and IdrA are damn good. Yes Naniwa and Thorzain are new Sc2 talent for foreigners. But in the time it took to get those 2 Korea spouted out DRG, Ryung, MMA, Gumiho, the whole MVP bracket,. The resurgence of players thought dead like SC, Maka, Inca, Polt, San, etc. Not to mention the scary talent still in code B like Seed, Yongwha, Squirtle, etc that we saw but havent splashed too big in the scene. EVERY GSTL we see this terrifying new line up of players that just blow our minds. We think "HOW DID WE NOT KNOW OF THESE PEOPLE?" This is what Korea has. We have a FEW names that can come even close to contending, very small bits of new blood to attempt at the scene, and just as many names that just fade and die.
On June 15 2011 14:46 xza wrote: though i think the gap between foreigners and korea isn't as far apart like BW in terms of skill. the game is only 1 year old.
Everyone's happily debating about whos better koreans or foreigners....
2 years later: Jaedong and Flash appears.
now when they appear... LOL. gg. you'll see perfection in sc2
Are you actually trying to troll these sheep into the SC2 vs Broodwar discussion, that's already been had several times? Dude.. Not cool.
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
TSL3 was online, which ends that argument.
No, it does not actually. Thanks for trying champ
yes it does, get out troll. 350 ping vs 30 ping.
try it.
ps:
TSL3: everyone: LOLOLOL 'white dudes own korea' Korea: but it was lag everyone: BUT YOU LOST! LOLOLOLOL.
MLG Columbus everyone: wow.... we are way behind the koreans... 1st/2nd/3rd all koreans. koreans only lost to koreans in columbus... wow. Korea: told you it was lag. everyone: *starts thread about people getting owned at homesoil*
Idra could have easily taken at least 3rd had he not given up. Thorzain also could have probably placed higher on a different day, same with Naniwa who pretty much /danced his way to a loss.
If anything I'd say that Columbus's close games pretty much proved the difference between Koreans and Foreigners is pretty small. Top Koreans aren't much better than top foreigners (yet), however, Korea has a much more robust scene for sure.
This is why foreign fanboys are so cute. Keep on deluding yourself, outside of the few games you mentioned, most weren't even close.
The few games I mentioned? What? People like you honestly baffle me, Idra could win a GSL and you would cry about how Koreans are still so much better with no real evidence.
Most of the games Idra lost during that tournament (to Koreans) were games he was winning, but just decided to leave because he is Idra. He was ahead vs. MMA and completely stomped MC.
yeah, idrA can be considered Korean since he practice over there for three years and do the same practice routine (10+ hours per day) that none the foreigener do
Jinro and Idra both performed well in the GSL, even though Idra was a lot worse back then. World Championship had the foreigners lose by only 1 game against a team with Nestea, MC, MvP, etc. on it, and the foreign team was quite weak in all honesty.
Jinro and idrA practice the same way as the Korean and that show in their result also Jinro was one of the first to come up with macro terran style back then when nobody else have a way of dealing with it but now that everybody else have start to do the same he started to fade (quoted from idrA on inside the game)
the WC tournament team games is a showmatch. Thats why the korean send their (arguably) 4 weakest player on day 1, if they start with July,MC, MVP, Nestea on day 1 there wont be a day 2
You'll just constantly make excuses for the Koreans so this is sort of a waste of time, but your logic isn't sound in any way. You're taking 1 event where Koreans BARELY managed to take 1/2/3 and then say "KOREANS ARE SO MUCH BETTER LOLOL."
if by barely you mean got the top 3 and only got eliminated by a fellow korean
With that being said, the difference between foreigners and Koreans won't remain small for long, as I can almost guarantee that the top Koreans are practicing much harder than top foreigners.
all the Korean (except maybe FruitDealer, he need to stop drinking) are practicing much harder than top foreigners
Holy fuck I agree with you but stop with those fucking smileys like you're being clever.
On June 15 2011 14:36 jcc wrote: I cannot help but laugh at all the people that honestly do not see a true disparity between top tier foreigner skill and top tier Korean skill.
1. To all the kids that constantly reference Dimaga beating Nestea, Idra's Ro8, and Jinro's double Ro4, stop. Really just stop, you are embarassing yourself. That is as relevant as referencing Fruitdealer's GSL 1 run and claiming that because of those specific games he is a top level zerg (which i do not consider him one). All of those, with the exception of Dimaga vs Nestea (even that was a while ago) WERE MONTHS AGO. The game has changed VASTLY. Look at Jinro, he is stuck in the past. Sure it may have been good BACK THEN, but the Koreans have evolved at a terrifying speed. Where is Jinro in all this? He's stuck with his terrible losing streak. As for IdrA, what has he done? Stomped Americans in IPL? Gone 6-3 in NASL? Tilting against real players in MLG? Cute.
Also to Dimaga vs Nestea. Keep these points in mind. The Koreans walked in the WC expecting to ROLL these kids. They didn't have specific builds outside of the usual, nothing new, nothing special. In fact many of them hid their trained builds for the ACTUAL GSL. Dimaga and the majority of the foreigners came into the WC with practiced builds to snipe all the top koreans. The Majority of the koreans admitted that they had no idea who the majority of those foreigners were.
2. Everyone foreigner that has come to a korean event has almost been stomped into the dust and then driven out. Jinro could not sustain his spot, nor could MoonGlade and Ret. Huk barely made it through but for how long? The thing is the Koreans improve at an UNFATHOMABLE RATE, and with a consistency that is just damn frightening. MakaPrime, Poltprime, Nhs_san, MMA, DRG, Losira, Inca, Zenio, July, Top, SC; ALL of them were thought to be one trick ponies. Now they are all pretty damn consistent, the majority of them holding S class (which is damn hard to sustain).
3. People note how top foreigners can hold their own against top Koreans. Ya, MAYBE in 1 Bo5, but who are these top foreigners people constantly mention? ThorZain, Naniwa, IdrA (and now Nerchio/Dimaga/etc). Yes, Thorzain, Naniwa, and IdrA are damn good. Yes Naniwa and Thorzain are new Sc2 talent for foreigners. But in the time it took to get those 2 Korea spouted out DRG, Ryung, MMA, Gumiho, the whole MVP bracket,. The resurgence of players thought dead like SC, Maka, Inca, Polt, San, etc. Not to mention the scary talent still in code B like Seed, Yongwha, Squirtle, etc that we saw but havent splashed too big in the scene. EVERY GSTL we see this terrifying new line up of players that just blow our minds. We think "HOW DID WE NOT KNOW OF THESE PEOPLE?" This is what Korea has. We have a FEW names that can come even close to contending, very small bits of new blood to attempt at the scene, and just as many names that just fade and die.
precisely. it would be nice (but i would be surprised) if all foreigners respected this fact.
Maybe not 10x but the post he was replying to was a lot more idiotic. How many more foreign events do koreans have to sweep before people get the picture? Too bad MKP isn't attending he finally could've won an event -_-. MC/Bomber will still take 1/2 tho unless they meet earlier on. The rest is up for grabs imo
What picture? It's already known (ofcourse there are exceptions) that Koreans are overall abit better than foreigners due to their way of practising (team houses) and so on...
And saying MC/Bomber is auto 1 and 2 spots... They are freaking amazing players and are favourites, that's about it. I admit I would be very shocked if they didn't get 1/2 in their groups but I would not be suprised if none of them reached the finals.
It's so sad to read that so many people put Koreans on a fucking pedestal, when the margin is alot closer than they want to admit.
What's more truthful is that many foreigners such as yourself are in denial about how much better Koreans are than foreigners. Who cares what race they are? Just look at the skill level. Overall, Koreans are far better.
nope. they got stomped in TSL3.
TSL3 was online, which ends that argument.
No, it does not actually. Thanks for trying champ
yes it does, get out troll. 350 ping vs 30 ping.
try it.
ps:
TSL3: everyone: LOLOLOL 'white dudes own korea' Korea: but it was lag everyone: BUT YOU LOST! LOLOLOLOL.
MLG Columbus everyone: wow.... we are way behind the koreans... 1st/2nd/3rd all koreans. koreans only lost to koreans in columbus... wow. Korea: told you it was lag. everyone: *starts thread about people getting owned at homesoil*
Idra could have easily taken at least 3rd had he not given up. Thorzain also could have probably placed higher on a different day, same with Naniwa who pretty much /danced his way to a loss.
If anything I'd say that Columbus's close games pretty much proved the difference between Koreans and Foreigners is pretty small. Top Koreans aren't much better than top foreigners (yet), however, Korea has a much more robust scene for sure.
This is why foreign fanboys are so cute. Keep on deluding yourself, outside of the few games you mentioned, most weren't even close.
Hahah Korean elitist crap,
Only reason why the koreans are mass declining dreamhack is becuase they affraid to get there ass kicked by the top EU pro´s and they should be affraid considering Dimaga kicked the crap out of Nestea.
I woulnt be supriced if GomTv told the koreans players not to go becuase they affriad what would happend if all the koreans lost and they lose there little number 1 sc2 tournament.
to say that after #1,#2 and #3 going to koreans at mlg just two weeks ago is fuckin hilarious.
Someone should really let these people know that dimaga was 2-2 vs Nestea across the event and that he won by 6 pooling. And yet these same people laugh at rain and inca for being cheesy.
just read on a german site that X lord is replacing fruitdealer
and yes i expect koreans to take this tournament, too. Maybe not as dominant as @ mlg because there are more high caliber players of the foreign scene present and some of the mid tier korean players so we shoudlnt expect koreans only getting knocked out by non koreans.
I agree with the majority of your points but, this . . .
On June 15 2011 14:36 jcc wrote: In fact many of them hid their trained builds for the ACTUAL GSL.
please don't pull a blasphemi and make shit up to support your point.
The Koreans wanted nothing more than to beat the foreigners, it's a big embarrassment for them to lose to foreigners (remember tossgirl crying after losing to idra?) and NesTea was fucking dumbfounded after losing to dimaga (he talked many times of wanting to compete with foreigners and it being his best MU, it was a sweet sweet moment, he said afterwards that he saw something in DIMAGA that he saw from no other Zergs in KR).
dimaga isn't better than NesTea, I think both of them are fucking outstanding Zergs, but if I had to put my money on one of them it would be NesTea every single time.
The 2 games DIMAGA won, well . . . one of them was a 6pool + drone all-in as we all know.
The second one is a bit more complicated. But in Hatch first vs Hatch first ZvZ there's a point in time where both of the Zergs are on ~16 drones and neither can scout very well, especially on big maps. Should you straight pump units to attack, or make a few drones and then pump units to defend, or make a few more drones and then pump units to defend or make A LOT of drones and hope you don't get attacked. This is what pisses a lot of Zergs off, you can either make 10 drones and lose to a roach ling all in or make 20 and be vastly ahead compared to the one that made 10 drones.
NesTea was scared, just having gotten 6pooled - it was 1-1 in a bo3 in the world championship - and he made a few drones (up to 23) and then pumped units while dimaga smartly made way more drones (he had 10 more very early) and then managed to carry that advantage to a big roach hydra attack.
NesTea had a huge BO disadvantage in both games he lost to dimaga and barely defended the second game.
who cares about those players I'd like to see zerg players like Losira and Nestea there to give the terran players and protoss a run for their money! :o
I think its kinda disappointing of the korean to just drop out a couple of days before the events start. If Nada had exams on that date i guess he would have known that for quite awhile.
And I would like to know the reason why the other koreans couldnt make it, and why TLO?.. weird.
On June 15 2011 23:39 WhiteWOR wrote: I think its kinda disappointing of the korean to just drop out a couple of days before the events start. If Nada had exams on that date i guess he would have known that for quite awhile.
And I would like to know the reason why the other koreans couldnt make it, and why TLO?.. weird.
On June 15 2011 23:39 WhiteWOR wrote: I think its kinda disappointing of the korean to just drop out a couple of days before the events start. If Nada had exams on that date i guess he would have known that for quite awhile.
And I would like to know the reason why the other koreans couldnt make it, and why TLO?.. weird.
On June 15 2011 23:39 WhiteWOR wrote: I think its kinda disappointing of the korean to just drop out a couple of days before the events start. If Nada had exams on that date i guess he would have known that for quite awhile.
And I would like to know the reason why the other koreans couldnt make it, and why TLO?.. weird.
So we know Nada is not going because of school, and MKP probably because he needs to help Polt practice, but what about FD, why did he bail out at the last moment?
Bummer, I was really looking forward to seeing him play...
On June 15 2011 02:07 awu25 wrote: Nada > all the koreans?
FTFY.
I jest, but even if he is not the best in terms of skill, he is the best in terms of epicness. Like Slayers_Boxer, but better. (Sorry Boxer, you will always be my emperor, but the genious Terran is carrying the Brood War Legend flag at the moment)
Similar issues to what Bomber had when trying to get to MLG? Or something else? NaDa was because of exams (for what?), but some of the others just seem like random droppers...
On June 16 2011 04:52 Chronald wrote: Any true idea about why they aren't coming?
Similar issues to what Bomber had when trying to get to MLG? Or something else? NaDa was because of exams (for what?), but some of the others just seem like random droppers...
Maybe they were worried about owning the competition? :p
On a more serious note, kinda disappointing for them to drop out. Was hoping to see Fruitdealer play :/
On June 15 2011 14:36 jcc wrote: In fact many of them hid their trained builds for the ACTUAL GSL.
please don't pull a blasphemi and make shit up to support your point.
The Koreans wanted nothing more than to beat the foreigners, it's a big embarrassment for them to lose to foreigners (remember tossgirl crying after losing to idra?) and NesTea was fucking dumbfounded after losing to dimaga (he talked many times of wanting to compete with foreigners and it being his best MU, it was a sweet sweet moment, he said afterwards that he saw something in DIMAGA that he saw from no other Zergs in KR).
What jcc has said was something that was agreed upon by the foreign WC team as seen in various interviews particularly the one KellyMilkies had done when she was at the Gom House. They all felt that the Koreans did not try their best and hid their builds. July even mentions this as he said he always tries in every game he plays, but was uncertain if his teammates were taking it seriously. Nestea also mentions that he had tried in one of his interviews as he stated that he was reluctant to play Diamaga, as the final map for the WCTL was one for the main tournament as well and did not want to reveal his strategy (but in the end he did due to peer pressure). MC in another interview claimed he went "easy" on White-Ra as he wanted a good showing for the TL. If you also look at the games themselves, the KR team did a lot of questionable things such as Anypro's all-in vs Sen, MKP's outdated build, and San's Carrier build. This is from Sen's blog.+ Show Spoiler +
So I went up, and got lucky in the first match. I bet he didn't play seriously because he went for all-in in such a big map. The second match was versus marineking. I bet he won’t play seriously as well and I was right. He sent his army to me again and again without having the third mine. So I won again, and I used a lot of banelings in his base just for fun -.- I lost to a Protoss player in the third match. TT1 defeated the remaining two players surprisingly. I couldn’t believe that he won against the two CodeS’s players!OMG This proved more what I just said, the Korean team wasn’t playing seriously
I will not be going through all the interviews and link them (I believe they were the GSLWC winner interviews and the GSL afterwards for Nestea, not sure about the MC one). However, the KellyMilkies interview should be sufficient to support the point that you desperately deny, which should still be on her JTV channel (it is a few hours long).
Though it is sad to MKP has yet to attend a live foreigner event. Would love to see his style clash with foreigners without the latency. Seemed like he was already committed to helping Polt + LG Special League.
On June 15 2011 23:39 WhiteWOR wrote: I think its kinda disappointing of the korean to just drop out a couple of days before the events start. If Nada had exams on that date i guess he would have known that for quite awhile.
And I would like to know the reason why the other koreans couldnt make it, and why TLO?.. weird.
I'm pretty sure that unlike MLG DH doesn't pay for plane tickets. That's probably the main reason, pure and simple.
He lives in Stockholm you know. Jönköping is a 50 dollar train ride away. I would not be surprised at all if he is at DH anyway (he cant play anyway and his friends are playing).
Sad news indeed, I wonder why so many of the Koreans are dropping out of events? - seems odd, Oh wells, Hope MC is still going, he's such a good player and crowd pleasure!
That is so unprofessional and dissapointing, I'm feeling sorry for Dreamhack. Seems like the koreans don't take this really serious. But maybe I'm wrong and they have good reasons.
I believe MKP chose to stay at home to help prepare Polt for GSL finals. Although I am not too fond of backing out of commitments, if this is true it is a pretty noble act and would vindicate him.
I believe MKP chose to stay at home to help prepare Polt for GSL finals. Although I am not too fond of backing out of commitments, if this is true it is a pretty noble act and would vindicate him.
Ya I agree that MKPs reasoning is at least acceptable, and maybe all the other players also have good reasons, but if not they really shouldn't be invited again as much as I would like to see them in a foreign event.
Only reason why the koreans are mass declining dreamhack is becuase they affraid to get there ass kicked by the top EU pro´s and they should be affraid considering Dimaga kicked the crap out of Nestea.
I woulnt be supriced if GomTv told the koreans players not to go becuase they affriad what would happend if all the koreans lost and they lose there little number 1 sc2 tournament.
muahahha, what you say now the koreans are 45-2 in rounds or so lol dumbass
EPT
FruitDealer is also out :<
PredY and 
InCa
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/w5oRM.jpg)
