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On June 04 2011 21:21 Liquid`HuK wrote:
To shed some honest truth on the situation because me and jinro were actually talking about this the other day walking to gym, when you think about a lot of the protoss players in code/a code s most of them are OLD as far as sc2 is concerned. Most of the player have been involved in the game since the beginning and have been consistently mediocre throughout. Unlike the other races... a lot of HOT new terran/zerg players have been constantly been coming up through code a/code s but almost no protoss players beside Alicia/creator that I can think of (and who are still in code a or code b i believe?). Also a lot of skill IS based on ladder, how much you play on it, your ranking in GM, and how many games you play. Although ladder definitely doesn't define a player you can still see a lot of good players raping the ladder before making some strong debut in GSL. There really hasn't been any strong protoss ladder players beside the already known. (as im writting this post in the top 20 or so of gm there are roughly 2 protoss , 2 zerg , and the rest terran)
so altho i agree the game isn't completely balanced the protoss players in korea aren't exactly the best ever either
Riveting discovery Dr. Watson. Looking at the Up and Down from this years GSLs only 4 Protoss's have been on the Top 8, BanBanth, Killer, Alicia, and yourself Huk (all of which made it into code S, but that's besides the point). BanBanth is also no longer in Code S. May GSL there was no Protoss in the UnD. Interesting stats indeed.
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why do you switch because someone is not doing well? switch because YOU are not doing well, not them. for me, i've been playing protoss for the longest time ever. but i've not improved for a long time. so i'm switching to terran to try and adapt to it's stype, and hopefully i can improve at it better.
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On June 04 2011 21:21 Liquid`HuK wrote:
To shed some honest truth on the situation because me and jinro were actually talking about this the other day walking to gym, when you think about a lot of the protoss players in code/a code s most of them are OLD as far as sc2 is concerned. Most of the player have been involved in the game since the beginning and have been consistently mediocre throughout. Unlike the other races... a lot of HOT new terran/zerg players have been constantly been coming up through code a/code s but almost no protoss players beside Alicia/creator that I can think of (and who are still in code a or code b i believe?). Also a lot of skill IS based on ladder, how much you play on it, your ranking in GM, and how many games you play. Although ladder definitely doesn't define a player you can still see a lot of good players raping the ladder before making some strong debut in GSL. There really hasn't been any strong protoss ladder players beside the already known. (as im writting this post in the top 20 or so of gm there are roughly 2 protoss , 2 zerg , and the rest terran)
so altho i agree the game isn't completely balanced the protoss players in korea aren't exactly the best ever either
Hmm, that's definitely very interesting, thanks for the insight Huk!
What I really don't understand is, but why exactly do you think there are so little up and coming protoss players though? I really have a hard time believing that all the talented players just happen to be playing terran/zerg. I could be flat out wrong but its my personal opinion that its precisely because protoss have had so much trouble in general is why people are opting for terran and zerg (after all, surely a lot of top ladder players in Korea have interest in playing for like GSL right?)
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On June 04 2011 21:21 Liquid`HuK wrote:
To shed some honest truth on the situation because me and jinro were actually talking about this the other day walking to gym, when you think about a lot of the protoss players in code/a code s most of them are OLD as far as sc2 is concerned. Most of the player have been involved in the game since the beginning and have been consistently mediocre throughout. Unlike the other races... a lot of HOT new terran/zerg players have been constantly been coming up through code a/code s but almost no protoss players beside Alicia/creator that I can think of (and who are still in code a or code b i believe?). Also a lot of skill IS based on ladder, how much you play on it, your ranking in GM, and how many games you play. Although ladder definitely doesn't define a player you can still see a lot of good players raping the ladder before making some strong debut in GSL. There really hasn't been any strong protoss ladder players beside the already known. (as im writting this post in the top 20 or so of gm there are roughly 2 protoss , 2 zerg , and the rest terran)
so altho i agree the game isn't completely balanced the protoss players in korea aren't exactly the best ever either
What I would like to know from pro-toss players like you is, why you don't actually complaining about toss different tech trees besides robo->Colossi? IdrA always complains about Zergs Scouting abilities or Zerg Late game etc. but I haven' t heard a single Pro-toss raging about Carriers which are basicly useless at the higher level of gaming since the fucking beta. All I see is some stupid Mothership at the end, when the battle is already over or was build for a funny reason but complaining about the usefullness of Carriers is kinda non existent for Pro.toss players.
Hope you will give me an answer about that.
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The main problem with Protoss I think is that their Tier 1/1.5 armies are so entirely dependent of Forcefeilds or Blink Micro and If you screw up either one of those (or run out of FF energy) then your Army just dies to Terran and Zerg T1/T,5.
This is I think due to the fundamental problem with the Stalker. If the Stalker was good as the Marauder or Roach then the Warp in Mechanics of Protoss + Blink would make them incredibly overpowered. Thus the protoss stalker has been reduced so badly that protoss does not have a "backbone" unit that it can rely on versus Zerg and Terran. Its also why protoss is also so reliant on Tier 3, which makes the protoss army extremely immobile and unable to harrass or defend efficiently.
And By T3 I mean colosus. The other options are pretty crap and you essentially need robos for observers anyway.
Which is why the MKP ghost push and roach timing pushes are so powerful as if you remove the Forcefeilds that split up the opposing armies into manageable chunks ( as with Zerg Burrow + TCs and EMPs) then Protoss T1 just dies.
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Switzerland3584 Posts
On June 04 2011 21:37 Mentymion wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 21:21 Liquid`HuK wrote:
To shed some honest truth on the situation because me and jinro were actually talking about this the other day walking to gym, when you think about a lot of the protoss players in code/a code s most of them are OLD as far as sc2 is concerned. Most of the player have been involved in the game since the beginning and have been consistently mediocre throughout. Unlike the other races... a lot of HOT new terran/zerg players have been constantly been coming up through code a/code s but almost no protoss players beside Alicia/creator that I can think of (and who are still in code a or code b i believe?). Also a lot of skill IS based on ladder, how much you play on it, your ranking in GM, and how many games you play. Although ladder definitely doesn't define a player you can still see a lot of good players raping the ladder before making some strong debut in GSL. There really hasn't been any strong protoss ladder players beside the already known. (as im writting this post in the top 20 or so of gm there are roughly 2 protoss , 2 zerg , and the rest terran)
so altho i agree the game isn't completely balanced the protoss players in korea aren't exactly the best ever either What I would like to know from pro-toss players like you is, why you don't actually complaining about toss different tech trees besides robo->Colossi? IdrA always complains about Zergs Scouting abilities or Zerg Late game etc. but I haven' t heard a single Pro-toss raging about Carriers which are basicly useless at the higher level of gaming since the fucking beta. All I see is some stupid Mothership at the end, when the battle is already over or was build for a funny reason but complaining about the usefullness of Carriers is kinda non existent for Pro.toss players. Hope you will give me an answer about that.
Some people (or whole races) have class and try to figure things out / make things work / search for things / try to improve themselfes instead of whining and letting others do the work.
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Well, as a protoss player, I can't say that the race is UP, or the rest are OP, the thing is toss openings and metagame haven't changed all that dramatically. I have been trying something different these days in each MU and the results are sad. Zerg's game has improved significantly, although it is still trendy for zerg players to whine. Btw is this hate towards toss considered as racism? ;D
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On June 04 2011 21:33 Piledriver wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 21:21 Liquid`HuK wrote:
To shed some honest truth on the situation because me and jinro were actually talking about this the other day walking to gym, when you think about a lot of the protoss players in code/a code s most of them are OLD as far as sc2 is concerned. Most of the player have been involved in the game since the beginning and have been consistently mediocre throughout. Unlike the other races... a lot of HOT new terran/zerg players have been constantly been coming up through code a/code s but almost no protoss players beside Alicia/creator that I can think of (and who are still in code a or code b i believe?). Also a lot of skill IS based on ladder, how much you play on it, your ranking in GM, and how many games you play. Although ladder definitely doesn't define a player you can still see a lot of good players raping the ladder before making some strong debut in GSL. There really hasn't been any strong protoss ladder players beside the already known. (as im writting this post in the top 20 or so of gm there are roughly 2 protoss , 2 zerg , and the rest terran)
so altho i agree the game isn't completely balanced the protoss players in korea aren't exactly the best ever either Do you think its only a coincidence that T and Z have more upcoming players? Or do you also feel that as a race, Protoss lacks the opportunity to showcase multitasking and the ability to attack multiple fronts to demonstrate clear multitasking superiority vs a person with lesser skills? I dont know, when I play toss I feel the need to play defensively because of the lack of super fast/effective harass units like speedlings/hellions/banshees/mutas or just stimmed bio drops. DTs are costly investment that is incredibly easily countered. So even when I win I always get the feel that I just made a big ball while defending pressure and then a-moved to victory. I don't get the feel of exhilaration that I get when my hellion just roasted 8 probes in the enemy mineral line and got away safely into a waiting medivac, while simultaneously expanding and ramping up my production, and getting ready to drop my next round of units. Its just feels like there are so many options to do guaranteed damage as terran which are not available when playing toss.
So the best player that posts in the entire thread says you are wrong and you still think you are right. Congrats T.T
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On June 04 2011 21:21 Liquid`HuK wrote:
To shed some honest truth on the situation because me and jinro were actually talking about this the other day walking to gym, when you think about a lot of the protoss players in code/a code s most of them are OLD as far as sc2 is concerned. Most of the player have been involved in the game since the beginning and have been consistently mediocre throughout. Unlike the other races... a lot of HOT new terran/zerg players have been constantly been coming up through code a/code s but almost no protoss players beside Alicia/creator that I can think of (and who are still in code a or code b i believe?). Also a lot of skill IS based on ladder, how much you play on it, your ranking in GM, and how many games you play. Although ladder definitely doesn't define a player you can still see a lot of good players raping the ladder before making some strong debut in GSL. There really hasn't been any strong protoss ladder players beside the already known. (as im writting this post in the top 20 or so of gm there are roughly 2 protoss , 2 zerg , and the rest terran)
so altho i agree the game isn't completely balanced the protoss players in korea aren't exactly the best ever either
i think a large issue as to why there aren't so many "young" protoss players is becasue the race itself has lost all appeal.
Lets say multi-tasking is ur strong suit. What is there to do for protoss but use multi-tasking to defend only cause our dt's don't fly and our immortals don't stim -.-.
Lets say ur strong suit is micro. Microing zealots - useless, perfectly microd blink stalker, still cost ineffecient, microing a ff'd colossus, that requires micro?
Lets say ur strong suit is macro. so ur zerg opponent can 14 hatch and u can't do anything about it but if u 15 nexus you die o.o? they 1 rax e and u 2 gate ur behind, u 1 gate fe and they 2 rax you die? macro definitely won't reward you here.
Lets say ur strong suit is inventing build orders (mc here). Seems to me like if detection being the robo wasn't convincing enough, the hardcore nerfs to the other tech trees sure put the nail in the coffin.
I only switched from terran to protoss (pre mc) because i felt that warp in storm had huge potential now in one bad patch after another all that potential seems gone, so why would any young person who wants to win a gsl (cause thats where the money is at) play a race with little to no potential cause as the skill cap gets higher the worse it is for you.
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On June 04 2011 21:39 Elefanto wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 21:37 Mentymion wrote:On June 04 2011 21:21 Liquid`HuK wrote:
To shed some honest truth on the situation because me and jinro were actually talking about this the other day walking to gym, when you think about a lot of the protoss players in code/a code s most of them are OLD as far as sc2 is concerned. Most of the player have been involved in the game since the beginning and have been consistently mediocre throughout. Unlike the other races... a lot of HOT new terran/zerg players have been constantly been coming up through code a/code s but almost no protoss players beside Alicia/creator that I can think of (and who are still in code a or code b i believe?). Also a lot of skill IS based on ladder, how much you play on it, your ranking in GM, and how many games you play. Although ladder definitely doesn't define a player you can still see a lot of good players raping the ladder before making some strong debut in GSL. There really hasn't been any strong protoss ladder players beside the already known. (as im writting this post in the top 20 or so of gm there are roughly 2 protoss , 2 zerg , and the rest terran)
so altho i agree the game isn't completely balanced the protoss players in korea aren't exactly the best ever either What I would like to know from pro-toss players like you is, why you don't actually complaining about toss different tech trees besides robo->Colossi? IdrA always complains about Zergs Scouting abilities or Zerg Late game etc. but I haven' t heard a single Pro-toss raging about Carriers which are basicly useless at the higher level of gaming since the fucking beta. All I see is some stupid Mothership at the end, when the battle is already over or was build for a funny reason but complaining about the usefullness of Carriers is kinda non existent for Pro.toss players. Hope you will give me an answer about that. Some people (or whole races) have class and try to figure things out / make things work / search for things / try to improve themselfes instead of whining and letting others do the work.
What ? So you are on of the players who actually think that HuK is a player who says: the Carrier is fine, people have just to figure it out, the game is new but somehow nobody uses them effectivley in the GSL or any big tournament ?
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I guess now is time for protoss to develop new strategies. Zergs have already found the way how to counter all the protoss basic builds, against 3gate expand etc they usually do roach timing pushes which have been very successful @ GSL. Im really looking foward to see what kind of new strategies our protoss players are going to use in future. Protoss is NOT up, protoss players have just used the same strategies too much, while zerg and terran have made some crazy new builds. Its sad that MC drop in ro64 againist protoss.. he had some very nice strategies against IdrA and Ret yesterday @ MLG.
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lololo again the whine begins
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On June 04 2011 21:33 Piledriver wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 21:21 Liquid`HuK wrote:
To shed some honest truth on the situation because me and jinro were actually talking about this the other day walking to gym, when you think about a lot of the protoss players in code/a code s most of them are OLD as far as sc2 is concerned. Most of the player have been involved in the game since the beginning and have been consistently mediocre throughout. Unlike the other races... a lot of HOT new terran/zerg players have been constantly been coming up through code a/code s but almost no protoss players beside Alicia/creator that I can think of (and who are still in code a or code b i believe?). Also a lot of skill IS based on ladder, how much you play on it, your ranking in GM, and how many games you play. Although ladder definitely doesn't define a player you can still see a lot of good players raping the ladder before making some strong debut in GSL. There really hasn't been any strong protoss ladder players beside the already known. (as im writting this post in the top 20 or so of gm there are roughly 2 protoss , 2 zerg , and the rest terran)
so altho i agree the game isn't completely balanced the protoss players in korea aren't exactly the best ever either Do you think its only a coincidence that T and Z have more upcoming players? Or do you also feel that as a race, Protoss lacks the opportunity to showcase multitasking and the ability to attack multiple fronts to demonstrate clear multitasking superiority vs a person with lesser skills? I dont know, when I play toss I feel the need to play defensively because of the lack of super fast/effective harass units like speedlings/hellions/banshees/mutas or just stimmed bio drops. DTs are costly investment that is incredibly easily countered. So even when I win I always get the feel that I just made a big ball while defending pressure and then a-moved to victory. I don't get the feel of exhilaration that I get when my hellion just roasted 8 probes in the enemy mineral line and got away safely into a waiting medivac, while simultaneously expanding and ramping up my production, and getting ready to drop my next round of units. Its just feels like there are so many options to do guaranteed damage as terran which are not available when playing toss.
I want to address this point of "Protoss have little or no harass potential." A lot of Protoss are under the perception that Terran and Zerg just DO these harassing maneuvers, and they always pay off. Even if they don't pay off, they are much easier to execute. Truthfully, though, there are tons of times where T and Z HAVE to harass just to keep up.
That's probably the biggest difference between Protoss and the other 2 races in regards to harassment. Since it becomes required in many ways, it becomes part of the path to getting better. When there is no other way to win in some cases with relatively similar builds and macro, that harassment becomes a requirement (from Z and T) in order to win.
This definitely doesn't mean that Protoss have fewer options or worse options for harassment, just that they aren't as well defined and explored. If you feel that you can comfortably win by simply defending until X occurs, then why take big risks with harassment? It's not that you or other Protoss consciously make the decision to develop harassment oriented builds, it's that you win without them and you don't see how to fit that into your current build.
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On June 04 2011 21:49 Mairou wrote:
I guess now is time for protoss to develop new strategies. Zergs have already found the way how to counter all the protoss basic builds, against 3gate expand etc they usually do roach timing pushes which have been very successful @ GSL. Im really looking foward to see what kind of new strategies our protoss players are going to use in future. Protoss is NOT up, protoss players have just used the same strategies too much, while zerg and terran have made some crazy new builds. Its sad that MC drop in ro64 againist protoss.. he had some very nice strategies against IdrA and Ret yesterday @ MLG.
Yes, this is what protoss players are doing, we're figuring out new builds (which coincidently I don't understand why we don't have a build order on the Slayers_Frozen 2 gas before core stargate pressure expand.)
We need to see what MC and Alicia do against these new builds.
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On June 04 2011 21:47 Mentymion wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 21:39 Elefanto wrote:On June 04 2011 21:37 Mentymion wrote:On June 04 2011 21:21 Liquid`HuK wrote:
To shed some honest truth on the situation because me and jinro were actually talking about this the other day walking to gym, when you think about a lot of the protoss players in code/a code s most of them are OLD as far as sc2 is concerned. Most of the player have been involved in the game since the beginning and have been consistently mediocre throughout. Unlike the other races... a lot of HOT new terran/zerg players have been constantly been coming up through code a/code s but almost no protoss players beside Alicia/creator that I can think of (and who are still in code a or code b i believe?). Also a lot of skill IS based on ladder, how much you play on it, your ranking in GM, and how many games you play. Although ladder definitely doesn't define a player you can still see a lot of good players raping the ladder before making some strong debut in GSL. There really hasn't been any strong protoss ladder players beside the already known. (as im writting this post in the top 20 or so of gm there are roughly 2 protoss , 2 zerg , and the rest terran)
so altho i agree the game isn't completely balanced the protoss players in korea aren't exactly the best ever either What I would like to know from pro-toss players like you is, why you don't actually complaining about toss different tech trees besides robo->Colossi? IdrA always complains about Zergs Scouting abilities or Zerg Late game etc. but I haven' t heard a single Pro-toss raging about Carriers which are basicly useless at the higher level of gaming since the fucking beta. All I see is some stupid Mothership at the end, when the battle is already over or was build for a funny reason but complaining about the usefullness of Carriers is kinda non existent for Pro.toss players. Hope you will give me an answer about that. Some people (or whole races) have class and try to figure things out / make things work / search for things / try to improve themselfes instead of whining and letting others do the work. What ? So you are on of the players who actually think that HuK is a player who says: the Carrier is fine, people have just to figure it out, the game is new but somehow nobody uses them effectivley in the GSL or any big tournament ?
Yeah he probably is. IdrA must be the only player in the world who doesn't try to figure stuff out. /s
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On June 04 2011 21:37 Mentymion wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 21:21 Liquid`HuK wrote:
To shed some honest truth on the situation because me and jinro were actually talking about this the other day walking to gym, when you think about a lot of the protoss players in code/a code s most of them are OLD as far as sc2 is concerned. Most of the player have been involved in the game since the beginning and have been consistently mediocre throughout. Unlike the other races... a lot of HOT new terran/zerg players have been constantly been coming up through code a/code s but almost no protoss players beside Alicia/creator that I can think of (and who are still in code a or code b i believe?). Also a lot of skill IS based on ladder, how much you play on it, your ranking in GM, and how many games you play. Although ladder definitely doesn't define a player you can still see a lot of good players raping the ladder before making some strong debut in GSL. There really hasn't been any strong protoss ladder players beside the already known. (as im writting this post in the top 20 or so of gm there are roughly 2 protoss , 2 zerg , and the rest terran)
so altho i agree the game isn't completely balanced the protoss players in korea aren't exactly the best ever either What I would like to know from pro-toss players like you is, why you don't actually complaining about toss different tech trees besides robo->Colossi? IdrA always complains about Zergs Scouting abilities or Zerg Late game etc. but I haven' t heard a single Pro-toss raging about Carriers which are basicly useless at the higher level of gaming since the fucking beta. All I see is some stupid Mothership at the end, when the battle is already over or was build for a funny reason but complaining about the usefullness of Carriers is kinda non existent for Pro.toss players. Hope you will give me an answer about that.
While i don't want to go much into racial imbalance, and while i'm certainly not Huk, i'd say that carriers suffer from the same problem that ultralisks do, they're a decent unit, but outclassed by units which are easier to get, the carrier might have the highest dps of all units in the game, but the tech path and the amount of resources you pour into it rarely makes it worth it, while the voidray dosen't require a fleet beacon, is faster, and isn't cursed with being massive, so basicly, they're a good unit, but they have no purpose when voidrays exist, neither does ultralisks have a purpose when brood lords exist, other than making a tech switch if the terran makes a lot of anti-air, or doing some funky strategy.
I never really understood the hatred towards the motherhship, it has a cloaking field, a mass recall, and the strongest spell in the game: "Vortex" which removes a large portion of the enemy army, letting your already very cost-effective protoss deathball roll over with ease, unless the enemy moves all his units into the vortex, in which case you set up for a conclave around the vortex and storm the shit out of it.
I do agree that carriers need some kind of niche to actually have a role in the game, but perhaps it should simply be removed, as protoss already have several units more than zerg.
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Worst part is that people will never learn. Around the last mlg every other interview consisted of a "pros" blaming their losses on protoss being imba and the forums/reddit got swamped with pictures/comments of the same nature. Now im not even a protoss player myself, but attempting to reason with (mostly zerg) fanboys during that time got me flamed to oblivion by know-it-all's.
Protoss never was overpowered, nor is zerg overpowered now - they simply had to evolve their metagame and it's obviously bearing fruits.
My guess is that protoss players will have to move away from fast expand turtling into a 200/200 coinflip battle and move towards something like 2 roaming/constant harrassing groups made up of blink stalkers and sentries/zealots/immortal. Also, i feel that the collosus will take on a more base-defensive role togheter with few cannons and a very small numbers of sentries. Occansional warp-prism drops will also be more common.
Again, this is just what i think it will eventually evolve into and i got no credentials or promising builds to back it up.
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On June 04 2011 21:39 dooraven wrote:
The main problem with Protoss I think is that their Tier 1/1.5 armies are so entirely dependent of Forcefeilds or Blink Micro and If you screw up either one of those (or run out of FF energy) then your Army just dies to Terran and Zerg T1/T,5.
This is I think due to the fundamental problem with the Stalker. If the Stalker was good as the Marauder or Roach then the Warp in Mechanics of Protoss + Blink would make them incredibly overpowered. Thus the protoss stalker has been reduced so badly that protoss does not have a "backbone" unit that it can rely on versus Zerg and Terran. Its also why protoss is also so reliant on Tier 3, which makes the protoss army extremely immobile and unable to harrass or defend efficiently.
And By T3 I mean colosus. The other options are pretty crap and you essentially need robos for observers anyway.
Which is why the MKP ghost push and roach timing pushes are so powerful as if you remove the Forcefeilds that split up the opposing armies into manageable chunks ( as with Zerg Burrow + TCs and EMPs) then Protoss T1 just dies.
,
I guess this is what it is really about. No matter if Protoss were doing well or bad, I never had the feeling that any Protoss player really liked the way Protoss has to be played.
Protoss had some insanely strong early game power with Warpgate and FF abuse, but beyond that there was a vacuum in midgame where you had to survive and get Colossi or HT out. Once you did, you had what was called the deathball being able to steamroll anything in its path.
I really believe that no Protoss player liked this way of playing. No matter how strong the deathball is, its concept is retarded.
The situation now is that the early game of P has significantly been nerfed, it seems that Warpgate timings aren that scary anymore, which kinda let's T and Z control the game. Both and T and Z have pressure builds as well as econ builds that you as a Protoss have to be aware of.
However with the buffs to Ghosts (EMP = energy draining psi storm) and infestors (work well with those low gas units like roaches) and the nerf to HT Protoss' late game has gotten way more difficult.
Sure, now P has to figure stuff out and it will take time. But no matter what builds arise the core problem remains:
Crappy stalkers and zealots which are balanced around FF, Warpgate and Blink.
Why is this bad? It makes matches with Protoss extremely volatile.
P does good FFs and abuses them? P wins by a huge margin and crushes its opponent --> FF imba whine (justified I want to add).
P messes up FF or gets caught off guard, misses some FF? --> P gets totally crushed.
Colossi dead? ---> P gets crushed!
3 Colossi survive after a battle? ---> P rolls over their opponents.
HTs with Amulet were the only way to quickly reinforce cost efficiently for Protoss. If you had lost a battle, Amulet HT would help you stay in the game. But losing Colossi or HT is so unforgiving and will cost you the game if you are not able to win the battle by a huge margin and cripple your opponent.
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On June 04 2011 21:52 crabz wrote:
lololo again the whine begins
From what I've read, there actually isn't much stupid whining in here. But I bet you probably saw the topic title, saw the Protoss results at the GSL, and assumed that everyone in here was just whining about how Protoss is too weak. No, not really.
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Everyone ridiculed me a month and a half ago when I said the tides were changing and Z and T were coming back in a big way. Stick with it Brotoss, most nerfs, smallest time on top, least QQ.
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EPT
