Protoss at the GSL - Page 20

On June 04 2011 11:57 rpgalon wrote:

haha I loved the graphic, you can see PvZ and PvT oscillating,
but something really f*** protoss in mar/apr


PS: you know the game is broken when you see less zerg QQing

On June 04 2011 11:47 hahaimhenry wrote:
Well no kidding Protoss are doing bad. They all play the SAME way, it's just whoever executes it the best (that being MC). Look at their PvZ, it's so predictable that Nestea completely exposed it - and it's not like he's the only one, a lot of other Zs say protoss play the same way.

In my honest opinion, there's nothing wrong with balance, I just think the top toss players aren't as good as the top T and Z players. I know a lot of MC fanboys will cry, but compared to MVP and NesTea, he's not any better than them.

On June 04 2011 18:31 Bagonad wrote:
This thread is hard to read, it's filled with normal people, with normal people i mean people who wants to feel superior to others.

Every half post in this thread is about how protoss players are such good people, and how they'll never complain about their race, how protoss players are just moraly superior in every way to the whining zerg players, it is pretty easy to see through this "advanced" form of balance whine going on, but sure everybody wants their race buffed, protoss are no different, everyone just has their way of complaining.

In a game where you only have yourself to blame for a loss, no teammates to throw your blame on, it's obvious that your brain punishes you for losing, and makes you feel bad, and with no teammates to blame, you have to resort to racial imbalance, the same reason why we see players being offensive towards eachother when losing a fight, nobody wants to admit to being worse, they might even feel it's unfair, but what does an uneducated, biased opinion help anyone? Nothing.

On June 04 2011 18:31 Bagonad wrote:
This thread is hard to read, it's filled with normal people, with normal people i mean people who wants to feel superior to others.

Every half post in this thread is about how protoss players are such good people, and how they'll never complain about their race, how protoss players are just moraly superior in every way to the whining zerg players, it is pretty easy to see through this "advanced" form of balance whine going on, but sure everybody wants their race buffed, protoss are no different, everyone just has their way of complaining.

In a game where you only have yourself to blame for a loss, no teammates to throw your blame on, it's obvious that your brain punishes you for losing, and makes you feel bad, and with no teammates to blame, you have to resort to racial imbalance, the same reason why we see players being offensive towards eachother when losing a fight, nobody wants to admit to being worse, they might even feel it's unfair, but what does an uneducated, biased opinion help anyone? Nothing.

On June 04 2011 18:38 Heavenly wrote:


This post is hard to read, it's created by a normal person, and by that I mean a person who looks at people who believe they are superior to others, then believes he is superior to those people.

Um, we are discussing protoss at the high level. None of us are MC or Alicia and very few people are complaining about personally losing games. Me and no other protoss player in this thread play at a level where the points brought up in this thread are 100% relevant to our losses. And I don't want protoss to be buffed whatsoever, I want its gameplay to be changed and possibly for certain tech paths to even be viable. I did give an educated post, feel free to give a counterargument to any single one of my points. Until then you look EXTREMELY arrogant with your strange, irrelevant finger wagging.

On June 04 2011 16:52 Heavenly wrote:
Lol zergs have whined CONSTANTLY throughout the beta until now. They got buffed all the time and tons of things they considered imba was nerfed. Protoss had voidray speed removed, khydarian amulet removed, warp gate timings nerfed. Infestors were buffed to be able to decimate the voidray/colossi deathball which worked against zerg a-moving a maxed but half-the-cost-of-the-protoss-army roach/hydra ball into them. Infestors were also given the wonderful ability to destroy 25 marines that make up 95% of the terran army with one spell. IdrA has been the leading whiner even though he posts great results all the time and isn't even one of the top zergs anymore, he literally wants every single thing to be simple for zerg and wants to be able to 100% scout everything early game even though the other races can't do that either.

This allows him to use his "superior mechanics to win because he's better", except no other race can decide to just make 8-12 drones every cycle. MC has higher APM than IdrA, never spikes above the amount of money necessary to create his cycle of units, pylons, and upgrades, constantly produces probes and expands at the proper timings. Three seconds after one upgrade finishes the next one begins. But IdrA and other top zergs are "MACRO BEASTS!" because macroing for his race means injecting on time, avoiding getting supply blocked, and making as many drones as your situation permits. Brood War required mechanics, you had to have the speed to micro your units, put your newly created workers to the mineral line, etc. whereas the harder aspects of mechanics from Brood War were basically wiped out through shift-queue, worker rallies, and unlimited control groups. "Superior mechanics" means nothing at the top level. In Brood War it was the difference between Jaedong/Flash and a B-teamer like IdrA. In Starcraft 2 almost anyone can win with sticking to a build order and hoping they engage in a favorable position.

Now a protoss makes a thread discussing balance and those outspoken zergs that whined for a year and wrote angry emails to Blizzard are laughing at them. These elitist "high masters" zergs on the NA server think they can laugh at protoss because their "race is harder". What race is harder at the masters level is IRRELEVANT to how the top players perform. Protoss being "easy" at the middle level has nothing to do with them being impotent at the higher levels. The only top protosses are Naniwa (who lost to 2-1 to Slush today, no one would consider Slush a top zerg), MC (lost to IdrA 2-0 today even though I eagerly await a rematch with a well-rested MC), and Alicia (lost to Losira, again not even a top zerg), with maybe a couple others below them.


Protoss play is 100% rigid and our mechanics are basically "chronoboost". We can't make 12 probes at a time when we deem it safe. We can't just go "oh you know what, we've just been a-moving a 200/200 roach/hydra ball, maybe we should actually figure out timings that we can attack?" because any movement outside of turtling to max is almost all-in timing and every effective one has been figured out. The only viable tech path is robotics and adding templar late game. We have no multi-harass ability because our units are inefficient in small groups and the most we can do is pick off one building with blink stalkers before running away.

All we can do is a 1-3 gateway sentry expand versus zerg. All we can do is get a robotics to make sure we don't outright die to easily massable tunneling claws roaches. All we can do is get colossi/sentry because they are the only thing that defeats roach/hydra, both of which cost less than stalkers, scale better with upgrades, and can be infinitely massed off a superior economy.

If we choose to go stargate tech you can take a third base easily. IdrA managed to defend MC's voidray/phoenix pressure on his extremely quick third base. He did this by making about one extra queen and when the voidray was 10 seconds away from his base keeping his queen there and laying down 2 spore crawlers. Oops your tech path just became completely worthless and you cannot secure a third base. DT tech, not really even worth mentioning. Templar/immortal, immobile as fuck and still not good.

Any attempt to move out onto the field with our slow, expensive units leaves us wide open for that group being outright destroyed or a runby counterattack. Oops we have to now turtle on the number of bases we have because it is impossible for us to secure another base and our expensive army takes forever to rebuild. Any movement outside of our base has to be a timing push like a 6 gate, the only thing that can stop a zerg from going to four bases to our 2 and massing 75 drones by the time a protoss with non-stop probe production and spare chronoboost use will have around 45. If that 6 gate fails by you choosing to stop droning and instead crank out 15 roaches at a time we are completely dead.

EDIT: Yeah this probably seems like a massive imbalance whine but it's more like a whine about how low the protoss skill cap is and the easy-mode mechanics of the game.

On June 04 2011 20:47 Liquid`HuK wrote:
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS HAHAHAA FINALLY ITS TIME!


PROTOSS UP, ZERG OP, TERRAN OP

blizzard plz buff the protoss? or do i need to complain in every interview?



(totally joking ;o)

On June 04 2011 20:47 Liquid`HuK wrote:
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS HAHAHAA FINALLY ITS TIME!


PROTOSS UP, ZERG OP, TERRAN OP

blizzard plz buff the protoss? or do i need to complain in every interview?



(totally joking ;o)

On June 04 2011 21:21 Liquid`HuK wrote:
To shed some honest truth on the situation because me and jinro were actually talking about this the other day walking to gym, when you think about a lot of the protoss players in code/a code s most of them are OLD as far as sc2 is concerned. Most of the player have been involved in the game since the beginning and have been consistently mediocre throughout. Unlike the other races... a lot of HOT new terran/zerg players have been constantly been coming up through code a/code s but almost no protoss players beside Alicia/creator that I can think of (and who are still in code a or code b i believe?). Also a lot of skill IS based on ladder, how much you play on it, your ranking in GM, and how many games you play. Although ladder definitely doesn't define a player you can still see a lot of good players raping the ladder before making some strong debut in GSL. There really hasn't been any strong protoss ladder players beside the already known. (as im writting this post in the top 20 or so of gm there are roughly 2 protoss , 2 zerg , and the rest terran)


so altho i agree the game isn't completely balanced the protoss players in korea aren't exactly the best ever either

On June 04 2011 21:21 Liquid`HuK wrote:
To shed some honest truth on the situation because me and jinro were actually talking about this the other day walking to gym, when you think about a lot of the protoss players in code/a code s most of them are OLD as far as sc2 is concerned. Most of the player have been involved in the game since the beginning and have been consistently mediocre throughout. Unlike the other races... a lot of HOT new terran/zerg players have been constantly been coming up through code a/code s but almost no protoss players beside Alicia/creator that I can think of (and who are still in code a or code b i believe?). Also a lot of skill IS based on ladder, how much you play on it, your ranking in GM, and how many games you play. Although ladder definitely doesn't define a player you can still see a lot of good players raping the ladder before making some strong debut in GSL. There really hasn't been any strong protoss ladder players beside the already known. (as im writting this post in the top 20 or so of gm there are roughly 2 protoss , 2 zerg , and the rest terran)


so altho i agree the game isn't completely balanced the protoss players in korea aren't exactly the best ever either