Protoss at the GSL - Page 19

Protoss is still the best race just bad players

On June 04 2011 16:57 shinyA wrote:
^ I agree with most of what you said except LosirA is probably the best zerg in the world

On June 04 2011 03:07 W2 wrote:
I am glad this thread hasn't degenerated into imbalance whine, it goes to show the integrity of protoss players.

Instead of using our race as an excuse, we must use it as motivation. Even though zerg and terran are winning most of the matches, we still believe in our hearts that protoss is the strongest race. And it is up to us to show the world.

On June 04 2011 03:18 tehemperorer wrote:
Protoss best race, people just know almost exactly how the P players play, it's really predictable I'm sure for pro players.

On June 04 2011 03:21 Cthun wrote:


Words of wisdom there m8... Words of wisdom I tell you.

On June 04 2011 16:52 Heavenly wrote:
Lol zergs have whined CONSTANTLY throughout the beta until now. They got buffed all the time and tons of things they considered imba was nerfed. Protoss had voidray speed removed, khydarian amulet removed, warp gate timings nerfed. Infestors were buffed to be able to decimate the voidray/colossi deathball which worked against zerg a-moving a maxed but half-the-cost-of-the-protoss-army roach/hydra ball into them. Infestors were also given the wonderful ability to destroy 25 marines that make up 95% of the terran army with one spell. IdrA has been the leading whiner even though he posts great results all the time and isn't even one of the top zergs anymore, he literally wants every single thing to be simple for zerg and wants to be able to 100% scout everything early game even though the other races can't do that either.

This allows him to use his "superior mechanics to win because he's better", except no other race can decide to just make 8-12 drones every cycle. MC has higher APM than IdrA, never spikes above the amount of money necessary to create his cycle of units, pylons, and upgrades, constantly produces probes and expands at the proper timings. Three seconds after one upgrade finishes the next one begins. But IdrA and other top zergs are "MACRO BEASTS!" because macroing for his race means injecting on time, avoiding getting supply blocked, and making as many drones as your situation permits. Brood War required mechanics, you had to have the speed to micro your units, put your newly created workers to the mineral line, etc. whereas the harder aspects of mechanics from Brood War were basically wiped out through shift-queue, worker rallies, and unlimited control groups. "Superior mechanics" means nothing at the top level.

Now a protoss makes a thread discussing balance and those outspoken zergs that whined for a year and wrote angry emails to Blizzard are laughing at them. These elitist "high masters" zergs on the NA server think they can laugh at protoss because their "race is harder". What race is harder at the masters level is IRRELEVANT to how the top players perform. Protoss being "easy" at the middle level has nothing to do with them being impotent at the higher levels. The only top protosses are Naniwa (who lost to 2-1 to Slush today, no one would consider Slush a top zerg), MC (lost to IdrA 2-0 today even though I eagerly await a rematch with a well-rested MC), and Alicia (lost to Losira, again not even a top zerg), with maybe a couple others below them.


Protoss play is 100% rigid and our mechanics are basically "chronoboost". We can't make 12 probes at a time when we deem it safe. We can't just go "oh you know what, we've just been a-moving a 200/200 roach/hydra ball, maybe we should actually figure out timings that we can attack?" because any movement outside of turtling to max is almost all-in timing and every effective one has been figured out. The only viable tech path is robotics and adding templar late game. We have no multi-harass ability because our units are inefficient in small groups and the most we can do is pick off one building with blink stalkers before running away.

All we can do is a 1-3 gateway sentry expand versus zerg. All we can do is get a robotics to make sure we don't outright die to easily massable tunneling claws roaches. All we can do is get colossi/sentry because they are the only thing that defeats roach/hydra, both of which cost less than stalkers, scale better with upgrades, and can be infinitely massed off a superior economy.

If we choose to go stargate tech you can take a third base easily. IdrA managed to defend MC's voidray/phoenix pressure on his extremely quick third base. He did this by making about one extra queen and when the voidray was 10 seconds away from his base keeping his queen there and laying down 2 spore crawlers. Oops your tech path just became completely worthless and you cannot secure a third base. DT tech, not really even worth mentioning. Templar/immortal, immobile as fuck and still not good.

Any attempt to move out onto the field with our slow, expensive units leaves us wide open for that group being outright destroyed or a runby counterattack. Oops we have to now turtle on the number of bases we have because it is impossible for us to secure another base and our expensive army takes forever to rebuild. Any movement outside of our base has to be a timing push like a 6 gate, the only thing that can stop a zerg from going to four bases to our 2 and massing 75 drones by the time a protoss with non-stop probe production and spare chronoboost use will have around 45. If that 6 gate fails by you choosing to stop droning and instead crank out 15 roaches at a time we are completely dead.

EDIT: Yeah this probably seems like a massive imbalance whine but it's more like a whine about how low the protoss skill cap is and the easy-mode mechanics of the game.

On June 04 2011 17:07 Rabiator wrote:
IdrA complains a lot about the other races and what he cant do and so on, but he always sounds like only Zerg have to take risks. Well that isnt the case and maybe Protoss have to realize this as well. With Forcefields and the ability to control the battlefield the Protoss have been playing it pretty safe, but maybe its time to adjust and take a little more risks.

Apart from DTs there are very very very few Protoss harasses going on. I am not talking about a bunch of Blink Stalkers jumping in and out of a base, because those are most likely about 90% of the Protoss units. I am more talking about using a Warp Prism to warp in just a few Zealots to disrupt mining and kill a few workers; I am talking about two Immortals in a Warp Prism which are used to snipe a Terrans addons while he is sieging your 3rd / 4th; I am talking about a small bunch of Void Rays (~3) to snipe air defense turrets late game ... there are loads of possibilities, but Protoss do even less harrass than Zerg in mid and late game and that is a key to success.

On June 04 2011 15:50 Elean wrote:
The race that improves the most is always the one that is struggling.

Few months ago Protoss was clearly dominating, that's why they fell behind in strategies. The other races, especially zergs are using new strategies and Protoss still have to learn how to deal with it.

It's cleary not a balance issue, it's learning how to deal with new strategies.

The good news is that Protoss have so many options not fully explored yet.

On June 04 2011 15:48 CoR wrote:



thats exactly how i feel in pvx ^^

On June 04 2011 16:52 Heavenly wrote:
Lol zergs have whined CONSTANTLY throughout the beta until now. They got buffed all the time and tons of things they considered imba was nerfed. Protoss had voidray speed removed, khydarian amulet removed, warp gate timings nerfed. Infestors were buffed to be able to decimate the voidray/colossi deathball which worked against zerg a-moving a maxed but half-the-cost-of-the-protoss-army roach/hydra ball into them. Infestors were also given the wonderful ability to destroy 25 marines that make up 95% of the terran army with one spell. IdrA has been the leading whiner even though he posts great results all the time and isn't even one of the top zergs anymore, he literally wants every single thing to be simple for zerg and wants to be able to 100% scout everything early game even though the other races can't do that either.

This allows him to use his "superior mechanics to win because he's better", except no other race can decide to just make 8-12 drones every cycle. MC has higher APM than IdrA, never spikes above the amount of money necessary to create his cycle of units, pylons, and upgrades, constantly produces probes and expands at the proper timings. Three seconds after one upgrade finishes the next one begins. But IdrA and other top zergs are "MACRO BEASTS!" because macroing for his race means injecting on time, avoiding getting supply blocked, and making as many drones as your situation permits. Brood War required mechanics, you had to have the speed to micro your units, put your newly created workers to the mineral line, etc. whereas the harder aspects of mechanics from Brood War were basically wiped out through shift-queue, worker rallies, and unlimited control groups. "Superior mechanics" means nothing at the top level. In Brood War it was the difference between Jaedong/Flash and a B-teamer like IdrA. In Starcraft 2 almost anyone can win with sticking to a build order and hoping they engage in a favorable position.

Now a protoss makes a thread discussing balance and those outspoken zergs that whined for a year and wrote angry emails to Blizzard are laughing at them. These elitist "high masters" zergs on the NA server think they can laugh at protoss because their "race is harder". What race is harder at the masters level is IRRELEVANT to how the top players perform. Protoss being "easy" at the middle level has nothing to do with them being impotent at the higher levels. The only top protosses are Naniwa (who lost to 2-1 to Slush today, no one would consider Slush a top zerg), MC (lost to IdrA 2-0 today even though I eagerly await a rematch with a well-rested MC), and Alicia (lost to Losira, again not even a top zerg), with maybe a couple others below them.


Protoss play is 100% rigid and our mechanics are basically "chronoboost". We can't make 12 probes at a time when we deem it safe. We can't just go "oh you know what, we've just been a-moving a 200/200 roach/hydra ball, maybe we should actually figure out timings that we can attack?" because any movement outside of turtling to max is almost all-in timing and every effective one has been figured out. The only viable tech path is robotics and adding templar late game. We have no multi-harass ability because our units are inefficient in small groups and the most we can do is pick off one building with blink stalkers before running away.

All we can do is a 1-3 gateway sentry expand versus zerg. All we can do is get a robotics to make sure we don't outright die to easily massable tunneling claws roaches. All we can do is get colossi/sentry because they are the only thing that defeats roach/hydra, both of which cost less than stalkers, scale better with upgrades, and can be infinitely massed off a superior economy.

If we choose to go stargate tech you can take a third base easily. IdrA managed to defend MC's voidray/phoenix pressure on his extremely quick third base. He did this by making about one extra queen and when the voidray was 10 seconds away from his base keeping his queen there and laying down 2 spore crawlers. Oops your tech path just became completely worthless and you cannot secure a third base. DT tech, not really even worth mentioning. Templar/immortal, immobile as fuck and still not good.

Any attempt to move out onto the field with our slow, expensive units leaves us wide open for that group being outright destroyed or a runby counterattack. Oops we have to now turtle on the number of bases we have because it is impossible for us to secure another base and our expensive army takes forever to rebuild. Any movement outside of our base has to be a timing push like a 6 gate, the only thing that can stop a zerg from going to four bases to our 2 and massing 75 drones by the time a protoss with non-stop probe production and spare chronoboost use will have around 45. If that 6 gate fails by you choosing to stop droning and instead crank out 15 roaches at a time we are completely dead.

EDIT: Yeah this probably seems like a massive imbalance whine but it's more like a whine about how low the protoss skill cap is and the easy-mode mechanics of the game.

On June 04 2011 18:18 Zealot Lord wrote:


QFT. what a 'heavenly' post

But what really is most annoying is how certain "leaders" of the zerg race keep complaining about balance even when they are already winning left and right.. Not just Idra but even players like Nestea who claim Protoss is too strong, then afterwards he reveals he has a 90% win rate against them.. its seriously mindboggling. I realize they have money on the line and thus they want whatever advantage they can get, but misleading the community just isn't the way to go about it - nobody likes sports players who flop to deceive referees. Sure it helps their team, but it surely doesn't help spectators enjoy the game. No difference here in my personal opinion.