|
On May 22 2011 04:48 Pleiades wrote:
South Korea needs more professional SC2 tournaments other than GSL affiliated ones or more open tournaments.
GOM is hampering the growth of SC2 in Korea in one way. If I was a foreigner SC2 progamer, I would rather opt out just to compete in many tournaments that last only a few days rather than just one tournament lasting a few weeks.
i agree. hopefully with the latest kespa-blizzard-gretech negotiations we'll see another major korean sc2 tournament from ongamenet or something.
|
On May 22 2011 03:38 AlBundy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 03:32 udgnim wrote:On May 22 2011 03:28 AlBundy wrote:On May 22 2011 03:25 Haydin wrote:
I think the people at Gom need to take a survey of foreign players and get an idea of just how much income some of these regular tournaments, weekend live events, showmatches, and leagues generate for them. What happens if they get a tough draw, and get knocked out first round? That's a lot of money spent for nothing gained.
I'd love to hear some of the reactions of korean players to this news, to get their perspective on all of this. No, you're getting it wrong. Main income should not come from prize money, it should come from a salary paid by the team. BW progamers don't rely on prize money to make a living. SC2 isn't big enough to give everyone salaries. some foreigner teams do provide salaries. no idea how much, but some players do receive a salary. BW isn't even big enough to give all their B teamers a real salary. Fair enough, thanks for the clarification. Still, money should not be an issue, nor the main motivation of gamers when it comes to such a huge tournament. I mean, what about the love of the competition what about the fame and glory? This super tournament is a huge opportunity.
People gotta eat. And that requires money these days. "Love of the competition" and "fame and glory" don't pay the bills and put food on the table. A pro-gamer needs to be responsible about these kinds of things. They have to look objectively at a situation and say, "do the rewards outweigh the risks?"
For participation in the Super Tournament, they do not.
|
On May 22 2011 04:48 Pleiades wrote:
South Korea needs more professional SC2 tournaments other than GSL affiliated ones or more open tournaments.
GOM is hampering the growth of SC2 in Korea in one way. If I was a foreigner SC2 progamer, I would rather opt out just to compete in many tournaments that last only a few days rather than just one tournament lasting a few weeks.
No they don't.
I don't know why people really are saying that all the fucking time.
BW is mainly only in Proleague. Then OSL and MSL.
SC2 can be only in GSTL and GSL tournaments EASILY.
People forget that sc2 in Korea is getting bigger and bigger, more pros from BW are switching, and more people tune in to watch GSL. GSL leagues can be ENOUGH, because they are LAN tournaments. Not like we have Online tournaments, that are only 2-3 days long.( The only exception is NASL and IPL, but THEY ARE ONLINE not OFFLINE as GSL is.)
I still feel like Korea is the meccha of Starcraft, And just few months of ONLINE tournaments WON'T change my mind that easily, cuz the SPIRIT of esports is still in Korea.
PS. I'm not saying that I'm against MLG, or any other great Tournaments around the world. All I'm saying is that we are looking at Korea right now as THE SECOND CHOICE, where how i feel should be the other way around since we DON'T KNOW how things will go on after the HYPE about SC2.
PSS. And I'm as surprised as GOMTV's Casters. But we will see in few years how it's going to be, I hope all of us will be happy, and won't regret acting like that to Korea.
|
On May 22 2011 04:49 425kid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 04:33 coddan wrote:On May 22 2011 04:29 gozima wrote:
Everyone always stating what the "opportunity cost" of going to Korea for a month will be. I won't be able to do this and that. wah wah wah...
Instead of looking at it from the perspective of a loser, why not look at what you could potentially gain from going....
~$27,000 for a months worth of work and everything else that comes with winning at the highest level.
If you don't think you can compete and win, of course you're going to continue to make excuses. Even if you are one of the 10 best players in the world, and assuming those 10 people are completely equal, and that all of the players in the top 10 would magically get the perfect brackets that allow them all to finish top 10, that's still only a 10% chance to win that kind of money. It is not an economically responsible thing to do. Its not economically responsible to be a progamer, really the only way to make a lot of money from it is to go to korea.
If you are a pro-gamer, it's much safer to be outside Korea. That it's not as stable as other professions isn't an argument to go completely crazy with it.
|
On May 22 2011 04:49 425kid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 04:33 coddan wrote:On May 22 2011 04:29 gozima wrote:
Everyone always stating what the "opportunity cost" of going to Korea for a month will be. I won't be able to do this and that. wah wah wah...
Instead of looking at it from the perspective of a loser, why not look at what you could potentially gain from going....
~$27,000 for a months worth of work and everything else that comes with winning at the highest level.
If you don't think you can compete and win, of course you're going to continue to make excuses. Even if you are one of the 10 best players in the world, and assuming those 10 people are completely equal, and that all of the players in the top 10 would magically get the perfect brackets that allow them all to finish top 10, that's still only a 10% chance to win that kind of money. It is not an economically responsible thing to do. Its not economically responsible to be a progamer, really the only way to make a lot of money from it is to go to korea.
That is so painfully wrong.
Being a pro on EG in NA is hugely better financially than being on a team in Korea. Unless you actually win or come 2nd in the GSL in Korea you are a poor scrub compared Idra or iNcontrol.
|
You know, I don't even see the point of Code A anymore. The skill level in both tournaments is good enough for a 64 player pool. If it was all just one tournament all the time a chance at that big prize pool would be more appealing instead of having to go through the code a and up and down process.
|
illsick
United States1770 Posts
On May 22 2011 04:33 coddan wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 04:29 gozima wrote:
Everyone always stating what the "opportunity cost" of going to Korea for a month will be. I won't be able to do this and that. wah wah wah...
Instead of looking at it from the perspective of a loser, why not look at what you could potentially gain from going....
~$27,000 for a months worth of work and everything else that comes with winning at the highest level.
If you don't think you can compete and win, of course you're going to continue to make excuses. Even if you are one of the 10 best players in the world, and assuming those 10 people are completely equal, and that all of the players in the top 10 would magically get the perfect brackets that allow them all to finish top 10, that's still only a 10% chance to win that kind of money. It is not an economically responsible thing to do.
3-4th place make almost same as winner of MLG (~$5k)
5-8th place make (~$3k)
That's better than a lot of the top foreigners are making
|
On May 22 2011 05:12 Gentso wrote:
You know, I don't even see the point of Code A anymore. The skill level in both tournaments is good enough for a 64 player pool. If it was all just one tournament all the time a chance at that big prize pool would be more appealing instead of having to go through the code a and up and down process.
That's the format of the super tournament and still, all the foreigners declined the invitation..So the format is not an argument.
|
|
|
On May 22 2011 05:06 DirtYLOu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 04:48 Pleiades wrote:
South Korea needs more professional SC2 tournaments other than GSL affiliated ones or more open tournaments.
GOM is hampering the growth of SC2 in Korea in one way. If I was a foreigner SC2 progamer, I would rather opt out just to compete in many tournaments that last only a few days rather than just one tournament lasting a few weeks. No they don't. I don't know why people really are saying that all the fucking time. BW is mainly only in Proleague. Then OSL and MSL. SC2 can be only in GSTL and GSL tournaments EASILY. People forget that sc2 in Korea is getting bigger and bigger, more pros from BW are switching, and more people tune in to watch GSL. GSL leagues can be ENOUGH, because they are LAN tournaments. Not like we have Online tournaments, that are only 2-3 days long.( The only exception is NASL and IPL, but THEY ARE ONLINE not OFFLINE as GSL is.) I still feel like Korea is the meccha of Starcraft, And just few months of ONLINE tournaments WON'T change my mind that easily, cuz the SPIRIT of esports is still in Korea. PS. I'm not saying that I'm against MLG, or any other great Tournaments around the world. All I'm saying is that we are looking at Korea right now as THE SECOND CHOICE, where how i feel should be the other way around since we DON'T KNOW how things will go on after the HYPE about SC2. PSS. And I'm as surprised as GOMTV's Casters. But we will see in few years how it's going to be, I hope all of us will be happy, and won't regret acting like that to Korea.
Look id hate to tell you this and pop bubbles people have in their heads, but players and spirit of competiveness dont = meccha of anything.
Money makes things the centre or not. The truth is if there is more money able to float around in the foriegner leagues then it doesnt matter how good the players in korea are or how many people are switching to sc2 in korea. More tournaments whether online or offline equals more money floating around to the progamers/teams which means more interest in being a player which equals a bigger scene.
Hell if this was brood war and koreans still raped foreigners left right and centre but foreigners had this type of sc2 progaming scene then no one would have wanted to go to korea
|
On May 22 2011 02:23 Canas wrote:
It's really quite simple, why would anyone want to give up their current life for a few months just so they can play in a month long qualifier, that they might not even end up doing well in, when there's plenty of tournaments for them to compete in in NA/EU
I think the main reason is this, it doesn't go any further really.
|
On May 22 2011 02:21 DivinO wrote:
There is a notable difference between seeds for MLG and a seed for GSL?
Explain, please.
I am pretty sure the seeded players in the GSL are *gasp* better than the MLG seeds. That is what he means.
|
On May 22 2011 02:29 Jombozeus wrote:Show nested quote +Mr. Chae also spoke about his opinion on providing code S spot for foreign players. "I don't think GSL is same level as MLG. I believe foreign fans also think same as me. There is notable difference between the seed for Koreans to MLG Championship and the seed for foreigners to GSL code S Are we really saying that Inca is more skillful than say naniwa? Code S is being VERY disappointing for Mr. GOMTV to make such a statement. Also considering that koreans dropped like flies in the Chinese Gigabyte tournament, their bragging rights is down the drain.
I think it's the stigma of MC win every live foreign tournament he's played in, Ace (can't even stay in Code A) obliterating all comers at IEM (Idra, Socke, Sjow, among others) and not dropping a GAME until the finals.
Gigabyte, TSL, NASL and FXOpen are all online tournaments, with attendant lag/pressure differentials compared to LAN tournies. Thus far, every live tournament that top-flight KR players have played in they've absolutely annihilated all comers EXCEPT GSL World Championship Team League (though remember in the Bo3 format, only Dimaga made it remotely far (past the first round?).
We'll see at MLG Columbus just where the KR community is in relation to the foreign scene; Losira/MMA/Bomber/etc. is a pretty good cross-section of the finest from Code S and A.
|
sure koreans might be better, but you can't survive on welfare if you expect to fly overseas for a month or so at a time.
there isn't quite enough money to justify it yet. give it time though. everyone loves korea ^.^;;
|
On May 22 2011 05:22 Snaphoo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 02:29 Jombozeus wrote:Mr. Chae also spoke about his opinion on providing code S spot for foreign players. "I don't think GSL is same level as MLG. I believe foreign fans also think same as me. There is notable difference between the seed for Koreans to MLG Championship and the seed for foreigners to GSL code S Are we really saying that Inca is more skillful than say naniwa? Code S is being VERY disappointing for Mr. GOMTV to make such a statement. Also considering that koreans dropped like flies in the Chinese Gigabyte tournament, their bragging rights is down the drain. I think it's the stigma of MC win every live foreign tournament he's played in, Ace (can't even stay in Code A) obliterating all comers at IEM (Idra, Socke, Sjow, among others) and not dropping a GAME until the finals. Gigabyte, TSL, NASL and FXOpen are all online tournaments, with attendant lag/pressure differentials compared to LAN tournies. Thus far, every live tournament that top-flight KR players have played in they've absolutely annihilated all comers EXCEPT GSL World Championship Team League (though remember in the Bo3 format, only Dimaga made it remotely far (past the first round?). We'll see at MLG Columbus just where the KR community is in relation to the foreign scene; Losira/MMA/Bomber/etc. is a pretty good cross-section of the finest from Code S and A.
In all fairness we have, what, 2-3 examples to pull from? GSL WC and IEM? That's not a proper sample size to assume anything.
|
If you're in Korea, you can't play with your team.
If you're in Korea, you can't participate in foreign tournaments (without lag or shelling out massive amounts of money in airline tickets).
If you're in Korea, you can't make as much money coaching because of the time difference.
If you're in Korea, you can't make as much money streaming because of the time difference.
If you're in Korea, you make very little in the way of prize money unless you happen to be in code S and place highly.
This is not even mentioning the different living conditions and culture people have to live in if they moved to Korea.
I wonder how, precisely, he "can't understand." Seems kind of BS to me.
|
The prize pool seems very low.
|
On May 22 2011 02:35 windsupernova wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 02:31 Timerly wrote:
I don't know why the guy is all like "KR > world" after the KR vs world match, TSL and NASL results etc. when it comes to the S seeds vs MLG CB seeds.
Then about the declined invites, the tournament takes 3 weeks and clashes with MLG, something like that should be announced about 2-3 months in advance to be considered by the teams.
MLG plays through a MUCH larger grid in a couple of days. Guess what, you can't televise every match there but maybe that's a good thing? Just an idea...snarf. Errr, it doesn't clash with MLG. They even made space for players to attend MLG. I'm pretty disappointed in that Foreign players didn't accept the invites, especially since if they do well in this they can become super popular which means more $$$$ for them. If our guys don't move the Koreans will overtake us and it will be BW again
Yeah they made space so you can participate in MLG, but they don't pay for the ticket. The only way it would be economically viable for you to participate in MLG is if you won 1st or 2nd.
|
Was GOM willing to pay for travel expenses like they did for the world championships?
|
On May 22 2011 05:13 illsick wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 04:33 coddan wrote:On May 22 2011 04:29 gozima wrote:
Everyone always stating what the "opportunity cost" of going to Korea for a month will be. I won't be able to do this and that. wah wah wah...
Instead of looking at it from the perspective of a loser, why not look at what you could potentially gain from going....
~$27,000 for a months worth of work and everything else that comes with winning at the highest level.
If you don't think you can compete and win, of course you're going to continue to make excuses. Even if you are one of the 10 best players in the world, and assuming those 10 people are completely equal, and that all of the players in the top 10 would magically get the perfect brackets that allow them all to finish top 10, that's still only a 10% chance to win that kind of money. It is not an economically responsible thing to do. 3-4th place make almost same as winner of MLG (~$5k) 5-8th place make (~$3k) That's better than a lot of the top foreigners are making
And there is also the requirement that you make it there every time. Idra only made it once, Jinro twice and haven't been close before or after that. If you go to Korea you are exluding yourself from the smaller prize pools for potentially winning a larger sum in much fiercer competition.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
