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On May 22 2011 03:25 resilve wrote:
The problem is Blizzard's really.
There is no justification for cutting off entire segments and sections of the world, when the medium we play the game through can do so much better.
Imagine a world where a player could live in Korea for the prestigous live events, travel to the weekend events like MLG + ESL, and while training still play in the NASL, IPL, Go4SC2 monthly final, Eg masters cup and various clanwars and showmatches.
However, due to the awful connection between KR and RoW you must chose GSL OR any other big events + online cups - and the money is all in the second of those options.
And yet this should not be a choice players have to make.
The more I think about it, the less I think players care about their NASL matches. I don't think "having to play my NASL match under worse conditions" really factors into their decision making that much.
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On May 22 2011 03:00 Bear4188 wrote:
I find it amusing that he says MLG champion doesn't deserve code S and then you look at the past MLG champions.
HuK: currently residing in code S
IdrA: GSL Open and code S participant until he left Korea
Jinro: two-time GSL semifinalist
Naniwa: ???
What he's saying is I think a response to people commentating code S spots should be given to foreigners. While being in code S alone grants you 1350 USD or something. And with code A becoming more competitive every season. I think that's more than fair.
But most importantly after Columbus, the MLG champion does get code S. It will however not "transfer down" meaning if a Korean wins, he also wins the code S spot.
First page really sucked btw. One liner questions with arguably its answer in the article. Open up page 2 BOOM, tons of paragraphs, people getting into discussion points etc. Lovely! Don't respond just to respond, you add close to nothing.
Now what I just want to interject is the following. Lets say we are unable to truly say if one region is stronger than the others. What could happen is that in the future one side will become stronger and those players will start to win a lot more events. On this I want to make a couple points.
Lets say you are from the region that is behind and you are a weaker player. What are you win chances then? Where is the money that you are going to earn? It's very plausible that if that one region starts to dominate. It won't be a profitable profession anymore and people will quit and find other income.
In that situation, you would have to be one of the stronger players to maintain your income. You would have to go back in time to start to become one of the stronger players.
Back in time until this moment right here. Where you had and or will have the opportunity to invest in yourself. By going to Korea and immersing yourself in the competition and the culture.
I truly believe that, what I base a lot of this perception on, it is the best place to develop yourself as a player.
You might be there for months, working your ass off with little to no reward. Only to emerge as a legit code S player beating great players along the way truly earning that spot.
You might fail to qualify countless times and become one of the few players residing there without any real achievements. Only to fly out and win MLG, come back qualify for code S and do excellent making it to the semi finals of the most prestigous Starcraft 2 tournament to date, back to back.
What will the future have in store? Only time will tell, you could say their hard work wasn't worth it or didn't add anything. You could say you can stay home for now and be fine. Only in hindsight will we be able to decide what the best course of action would've been. But I feel this journey does pay off in the end.
Simply put. You become great and get paid, you don't get paid to become great.
That's why I feel the same as the caster.
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On May 22 2011 03:32 udgnim wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 03:28 AlBundy wrote:On May 22 2011 03:25 Haydin wrote:
I think the people at Gom need to take a survey of foreign players and get an idea of just how much income some of these regular tournaments, weekend live events, showmatches, and leagues generate for them. What happens if they get a tough draw, and get knocked out first round? That's a lot of money spent for nothing gained.
I'd love to hear some of the reactions of korean players to this news, to get their perspective on all of this. No, you're getting it wrong. Main income should not come from prize money, it should come from a salary paid by the team. BW progamers don't rely on prize money to make a living. SC2 isn't big enough to give everyone salaries. some foreigner teams do provide salaries. no idea how much, but some players do receive a salary. BW isn't even big enough to give all their B teamers a real salary.
Fair enough, thanks for the clarification. Still, money should not be an issue, nor the main motivation of gamers when it comes to such a huge tournament. I mean, what about the love of the competition what about the fame and glory? This super tournament is a huge opportunity.
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I'm curious how many (non-KR) progamers are actually "professionals" in that that's all (or, say, 80%+) of what they do for a living. It's seemed to me that a lot (maybe not at the very top, but fairly extensively nonetheless) of foreign "pros" put in closer to what would be "part-time work" in another field, or even just amateur (as opposed to professional, not as in bad) play. Even for full-time sponsored pros, I don't know how many hours are actually put in, how many have dedicated practice partners, etc.
Whereas BW in Korea, with its imposed licensing structure (and Korean work ethic) created an atmosphere of full- to overtime work being the norm, with structured teams etc.
We've got an issue here where, even if some of the players are very good, the atmosphere is really really different (though with Western teams starting houses etc. that may be changing) - and I don't know if the GSL organizers/Korea in general realize how much of a different lifestyle they're asking their invitees to put up with for, again, what is a single tournament which conflicts with others.
(And honestly, how prestigious is the GSL? It's still got the Korean aura, and the Korean scene may assume it's the best. On the other hand it runs so non-stop, the game is changing so much, and - deliberately or not - it's so exclusive to a tiny part of the scene, that while "GSL winner/finalist" may be distinctive... is it that much better than, say, a Dreamhack win? even (as somebody mentioned the winners' GSL stats) an MLG win?)
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Maybe, just maybe, it's a bad idea to start the tournament right before another big event like the MLG columbus happens. Fly to korea, play one match, fly to the USA play the entire MLG, fly back to korea. What's so hard to understand that people don't want to do that?
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On May 22 2011 03:31 fraktoasters wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 03:25 resilve wrote:
The problem is Blizzard's really.
There is no justification for cutting off entire segments and sections of the world, when the medium we play the game through can do so much better.
Imagine a world where a player could live in Korea for the prestigous live events, travel to the weekend events like MLG + ESL, and while training still play in the NASL, IPL, Go4SC2 monthly final, Eg masters cup and various clanwars and showmatches.
However, due to the awful connection between KR and RoW you must chose GSL OR any other big events + online cups - and the money is all in the second of those options.
And yet this should not be a choice players have to make. Yeah I forgot Blizzard owns the internets
They do own there absolutely shit net code. Pretty funny that 12 years ago we could play BW against korea with no lag or almost no lag but since the 'massive improvement' Bnet 2.0 we can no longer do that.
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illsick
United States1770 Posts
On May 22 2011 03:31 wxwx wrote:
the WC was like a 2 week stay, so it was like a mini-vacation. With the super tournament being a month, it kind of cuts into your life/comfort and it becomes less of a vacation and more of a bother.
So it boils down to a choice between comfort and competitive drive. Not that foreigners are lacking in the motivation department... I mean an unparalleled desire to be the best and train with the best so great that you are willing to sacrifice many things.
If you stay the whole 1 month time, that means you are pretty deep into the tournament. If you get knocked out early, you go home early. I would like to see what kind of money some of the foreigners are making within a month time. If they are worried about the sacrifices, maybe they shouldn't become progamers as most can make more money with regular occupations.
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'this happens because it is so hard to beat Koreans.'
lol, bring em
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On May 22 2011 03:33 babylon wrote:
Fact: Very, very few people want to live in Korea for a month. The language barrier just by itself would suck, but when you add in the cost of making the trip, then Korea pretty much loses all its shine.
Hell, even if I had family in Korea, I wouldn't want to stay there for a month.
Only those who get into the finals will have to stay there for a month, which basically means you get at least $27,000.
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I think it'd be pretty awesome to go to Korea for a month, just for the experience. How many people, even amongst the pros get to say they played in the GSL. It gets you an enormous amount of exposure as a player(and your sponsors/team) as well.
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United States10682 Posts
Well I hope we see more & more foreigners in korea shortly, BTW just fyi in the 2nd paragraph : that "the invitaion of Super Tournament from GomTV came out in rush."
Invitation is spelled wrong, just noticed thought I should point that out. :D
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dont see what the problem is. Foreigners just arnt doin as well as the koreans, if they did better, they would be able to qualify for the league. just seems like some foreigners out there are complaining because there not quite as good as the koreans
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It's very inconvenient and expensive to go live and compete in Korea. I don't see why Chae Jung Won doesn't understand this.
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Everyone always stating what the "opportunity cost" of going to Korea for a month will be. I won't be able to do this and that. wah wah wah...
Instead of looking at it from the perspective of a loser, why not look at what you could potentially gain from going....
~$27,000 for a months worth of work and everything else that comes with winning at the highest level.
If you don't think you can compete and win, of course you're going to continue to make excuses.
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On May 22 2011 03:52 green.at wrote:
'this happens because it is so hard to beat Koreans.'
lol, bring em
they are bringing them. they're coming to MLG. but foreigners aren't doing anything to prove they can win in Korea.
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On May 22 2011 04:29 gozima wrote:
Everyone always stating what the "opportunity cost" of going to Korea for a month will be. I won't be able to do this and that. wah wah wah...
Instead of looking at it from the perspective of a loser, why not look at what you could potentially gain from going....
~$27,000 for a months worth of work and everything else that comes with winning at the highest level.
If you don't think you can compete and win, of course you're going to continue to make excuses.
Even if you are one of the 10 best players in the world, and assuming those 10 people are completely equal, and that all of the players in the top 10 would magically get the perfect brackets that allow them all to finish top 10, that's still only a 10% chance to win that kind of money. It is not an economically responsible thing to do.
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This just shows how even for bystanders, the people of the two side of the world remain blinded by mistrust and disinformation, the information gap are as deep as ever.
How GOM and MLG managed to overcome not just that but both sides' corporation bureaucracy to forge their alliance is beyond me, and frankly, a miracle. I think people doesn't give them enough credit for how major a breakthrough the Leadership Exchange Program really is.
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I think GomTV is really disappointed that most of the foreigners refused to come for the super tournament, and i understand them. They are making huge effort for the foreigners but they still don't want to compete in Korea. In the other side, foreigners have good reasons to not going there, but we need some FOREIGNER PRIDE, i want to see a foreigner win the super tournament so badly...
Maybe one day 
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South Korea needs more professional SC2 tournaments other than GSL affiliated ones or more open tournaments.
GOM is hampering the growth of SC2 in Korea in one way. If I was a foreigner SC2 progamer, I would rather opt out just to compete in many tournaments that last only a few days rather than just one tournament lasting a few weeks.
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On May 22 2011 04:33 coddan wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 04:29 gozima wrote:
Everyone always stating what the "opportunity cost" of going to Korea for a month will be. I won't be able to do this and that. wah wah wah...
Instead of looking at it from the perspective of a loser, why not look at what you could potentially gain from going....
~$27,000 for a months worth of work and everything else that comes with winning at the highest level.
If you don't think you can compete and win, of course you're going to continue to make excuses. Even if you are one of the 10 best players in the world, and assuming those 10 people are completely equal, and that all of the players in the top 10 would magically get the perfect brackets that allow them all to finish top 10, that's still only a 10% chance to win that kind of money. It is not an economically responsible thing to do.
Its not economically responsible to be a progamer, really the only way to make a lot of money from it is to go to korea.
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EPT
