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On May 22 2011 16:04 Subversion wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 15:34 TT1 wrote:On May 22 2011 15:31 Subversion wrote:On May 22 2011 14:58 TT1 wrote:On May 22 2011 14:53 Subversion wrote:On May 22 2011 14:31 TT1 wrote:On May 22 2011 14:15 Subversion wrote:On May 22 2011 12:19 TT1 wrote:On May 22 2011 12:10 Dawski wrote:
TT1 i love you and all but you gotta work on your communication haha. The way you made it sound in your response was that you are the representative of the entire foreigner community and that we all feel that we can't even compete in the first rounds of the tourney. Shouldve used better words like you did in your response with "enough of a skill difference to be a bad investment". Sometimes small things like that can piss people off when your trying to represent them.
and you have to admit but that world lineup that you said he was in denial about...was pretty fricken stacked and i also believe it would have a chance vs the top koreans ofc i was, the only players that would be able to compete vs koreans are the ones training in korea, all the other players would never be able to win consistently vs the top players Again, you keep speaking for everyone and making these sweeping statements. I really think you need to stop pretending you're the mouthpiece of the foreign community and speak for yourself. I really think a lot of foreigners who haven't even been to Korea, e.g. TSL3 finalists Naniwa and Thorzain, would not say that they can "never win consistently vs the top players". Being a pro player doesn't let you speak for everyone. The only person you can speak for is yourself, period. im not being a mouthpiece im just being honest, if you want to live in ur lil fictitious fairy land then be my guest You say you're "just being honest" but what you're spouting is your opinion and nothing more. You don't have tournament results to back this up. The few times we have seen some of our top foreigners go up against Koreans, they're performed very well. What evidence do you have to back your claims? You say I'm in a "fictitious fairy land" while you're the one sitting up there on some high horse making claims about other players abilities, which you have no right to do, nor any real basis on which to do that. Being a pro player doesn't exempt you from actually having to make a good argument. We're not just going to take everything you say as gospel when all actual evidence is contradictory to what you're saying. but wouldnt i have more credibility than you? if nony were to make the exact same statements that i just made would you have believed him? also you say i have no tournament results but you should take a closer look at this list: http://ehcg.djgamblore.com./my evidence is my word, and your evidence is based off of 1 tournament(tsl where the only foreigner who was competitive vs the koreans was thorzain)competitive , were both kinda turning in circles so ill give u the win Hey man look, I like you and I have no problem with you. I like Nony too, lol. I don't think you're like this uncredible person in the community or anything, as a progamer I value your opinions and insights, and you're rather vocal and I often agree with the things you say. I just can't help getting defensive of our players, and I guess I have a fair measure of "Western pride" if you can call it that. I just think there's this perception that these Koreans are these godlike players and while I think it was true in BW, I don't really think its applying in SC2. It's not just the TSL, its NASL and also even GSL, including the World Championships (where you yourself held your own!). I just think we need to stand up and say bring it Koreans, we can take you on and we can win. And I feel like this is true. The Korean forum translations we always see are of Koreans acting as if they're really superior and blaming stuff like latency and other extraneous crap on every loss to a foreigner. I just think we need to be proud and confident, and not say "yes, we know you're better than us..." and reinforce that belief. Anyways I do apologise if I sounded aggressive, I guess its just a touchy subject for me. Starcraft nationalism or something, hehe. I wish you the best of luck in the future  na im sorry too i always take everything way too personally, im sure that every foreigner shares the same sentiments as you.. including me but i was only trying to speak honestly and most of the time when that happens i come off as being over-agressive, sorry about that<3 LOL its hilarious how many times i paused my prison break episode just to come on tl so i could hit the refresh button endlessly, kinda reminded me of the old tl days where id get into flamewars with idra and we would both sit on the thread hitting f5 every second... AAAHHH good times haha yeah, I get all like riled up and into and spam F5, then I start feeling bad 'cause I generally hate arguing with anyone, lol. <3 Also, you're STILL watching prison break? That show was awesome like 5 years ago dude :D
i started watching season 1 yesterday, im up to episode 12
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On May 22 2011 15:06 pdd wrote:
The problem is that Koreans like their esports to be broadcasted live in a similar format to that of sporting tournaments (ie you don't see the FIFA World Cup take place within 2-3 days do you?), where playing and practicing Starcraft is actually a sustainable day job (note I only mention Starcraft. We're yet to see if SC2 can be as sustainable as SC1 for the players).
Starcraft 2 is NOT as physically taxing as playing a 90 / 120 minute game of football, thus it is totally legit to have tournaments with more than one game per player each day.
All the games in a world cup are shown - at least here in germany they are - but there are still games played at the same time during the group stages, so you can only watch one of them live and have to be satisfied with replays of the other one, so I dont think the "all games must be played live and one after the other" is a format which must be used. GOM and Korea really need smaller tournaments where "unknown" players get a chance to shine and the GSL is a slow competition which doesnt give us many results for a statistical analysis.
They could have "16 player tournaments" where the precise matchups are drawn right before the games are played and all the games are played over a weekend. Invite some foreigners to these and you wont be rejected as much IMO. Just take a big spoon and stir up all the rigid Korean ways of doing things and you might get better acceptance from foreign pros.
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On May 22 2011 15:50 Fubi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 12:17 Tachion wrote:On May 22 2011 12:04 Werk wrote:
hard to beat the koreans? theres more cash to be made in EU and NA than there is in korea, why go to korea for a month when your just going to lose to much cash... the rejections surprise people? the prize $ rankings beg to differ http://ehcg.djgamblore.com./ Exactly this. I don't understand how people are trying to argue that the prize money in Korea is less than the rest of the world. Lets not even consider MVP, MC, or Nestea who won multiple GSLs. Just look at fruitdealer, winning once then never winning anything significant there after. He still made 3 times as much as the next highest foreigner so far. And people like Rain, Inca, July, who only got to the final once made comparable amount to the highest foreigner. Now if you were to win, there is no argument that your prize pool can be matched by anything outside of Korea. But lets face it, no foreigners (well more so their team and sponsors) are confident enough that they can even make it into top 4 or finals, let alone winning the GSL. So to them, its definitely true that the prize money in GSL isn't worth sacrificing all the other tournaments for.
Yea this. Idra is the best NA player by a mile and the highest he got after 4 seasons was R016. We've seen players like Sen, Ret, and Haypro knocked out early, and we saw the foreigners dominated in the Korea vs the world tournament. If you're a foreigner that wants to become a better player than you've ever been before, go to Korea. If you want to make 'guranteed' money, you can play in a lot of European/NA tournaments.
But if you are a foreigner who knows you have what it takes to consistently place high, RO16+, you will make more than any foreigner. But, sadly, I think there aren't too many foreigners who think they can do that. Perhaps Naniwa has the confidence.
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On May 22 2011 16:10 oo inflame oo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 15:50 Fubi wrote:On May 22 2011 12:17 Tachion wrote:On May 22 2011 12:04 Werk wrote:
hard to beat the koreans? theres more cash to be made in EU and NA than there is in korea, why go to korea for a month when your just going to lose to much cash... the rejections surprise people? the prize $ rankings beg to differ http://ehcg.djgamblore.com./ Exactly this. I don't understand how people are trying to argue that the prize money in Korea is less than the rest of the world. Lets not even consider MVP, MC, or Nestea who won multiple GSLs. Just look at fruitdealer, winning once then never winning anything significant there after. He still made 3 times as much as the next highest foreigner so far. And people like Rain, Inca, July, who only got to the final once made comparable amount to the highest foreigner. Now if you were to win, there is no argument that your prize pool can be matched by anything outside of Korea. But lets face it, no foreigners (well more so their team and sponsors) are confident enough that they can even make it into top 4 or finals, let alone winning the GSL. So to them, its definitely true that the prize money in GSL isn't worth sacrificing all the other tournaments for. Yea this. Idra is the best NA player by a mile and the highest he got after 4 seasons was R016. We've seen players like Sen, Ret, and Haypro knocked out early, and we saw the foreigners dominated in the Korea vs the world tournament. If you're a foreigner that wants to become a better player than you've ever been before, go to Korea. If you want to make 'guranteed' money, you can play in a lot of European/NA tournaments. But if you are a foreigner who knows you have what it takes to consistently place high, RO16+, you will make more than any foreigner. But, sadly, I think there aren't too many foreigners who think they can do that. Perhaps Naniwa has the confidence.
Idra made top 8 and was defeated by Jinro another foreigner and I'll say it for the 10th time in the last five pages losing in GSL round of 32 groups = same money as 4th at MLG. The consistant "gauranteed" money is in GSL as long as you can stay in code S.
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yeah the problem is not because they need foreigners, its because GOM is hogging all the possibilities of other tournaments happening.
How come we never hear of a 'weekend' cup in korea where they can compete for fun and lulz and also win $50 or more. The reason for the lack of foreigners in korea is because why bother trying to get to ro8 to make huge money when you can enter so much more competitions in NA/EU and still get enough cash. Not to mention providing coaching lessons and whatnot.
I feel that GOM wants to tap into the foreigner scene by bringing foreigners in but how does that help? They can do so much more for the korean scene by atleast having more competitions instead of 1 exclusive GSL where 64 of the best players in korea compete. What about the others who have a super hard time in code A but are very very good (DRG and Bomber?).
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On May 22 2011 16:14 xza wrote:
yeah the problem is not because they need foreigners, its because GOM is hogging all the possibilities of other tournaments happening.
How come we never hear of a 'weekend' cup in korea where they can compete for fun and lulz and also win $50 or more. The reason for the lack of foreigners in korea is because why bother trying to get to ro8 to make huge money when you can enter so much more competitions in NA/EU and still get enough cash. Not to mention providing coaching lessons and whatnot.
I feel that GOM wants to tap into the foreigner scene by bringing foreigners in but how does that help? They can do so much more for the korean scene by atleast having more competitions instead of 1 exclusive GSL where 64 of the best players in korea compete. What about the others who have a super hard time in code A but are very very good (DRG and Bomber?).
There was a Korean Koth the last week for $300, the FXOpen online tourneys have all had large korean participation, CSN battle of the houses had a little but of cash given out at each event iirc.
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On May 22 2011 16:10 oo inflame oo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 15:50 Fubi wrote:On May 22 2011 12:17 Tachion wrote:On May 22 2011 12:04 Werk wrote:
hard to beat the koreans? theres more cash to be made in EU and NA than there is in korea, why go to korea for a month when your just going to lose to much cash... the rejections surprise people? the prize $ rankings beg to differ http://ehcg.djgamblore.com./ Exactly this. I don't understand how people are trying to argue that the prize money in Korea is less than the rest of the world. Lets not even consider MVP, MC, or Nestea who won multiple GSLs. Just look at fruitdealer, winning once then never winning anything significant there after. He still made 3 times as much as the next highest foreigner so far. And people like Rain, Inca, July, who only got to the final once made comparable amount to the highest foreigner. Now if you were to win, there is no argument that your prize pool can be matched by anything outside of Korea. But lets face it, no foreigners (well more so their team and sponsors) are confident enough that they can even make it into top 4 or finals, let alone winning the GSL. So to them, its definitely true that the prize money in GSL isn't worth sacrificing all the other tournaments for. Yea this. Idra is the best NA player by a mile and the highest he got after 4 seasons was R016. We've seen players like Sen, Ret, and Haypro knocked out early, and we saw the foreigners dominated in the Korea vs the world tournament. If you're a foreigner that wants to become a better player than you've ever been before, go to Korea. If you want to make 'guranteed' money, you can play in a lot of European/NA tournaments. But if you are a foreigner who knows you have what it takes to consistently place high, RO16+, you will make more than any foreigner. But, sadly, I think there aren't too many foreigners who think they can do that. Perhaps Naniwa has the confidence.
The IdrA of now - when compared to other players - is far better than the IdrA of then. I think he got pretty lucky making Ro16 (you say 16 but wasn't it 8?). However, if he were to compete now then I would expect him to make Ro4 at least.
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On May 22 2011 02:29 Jombozeus wrote:Show nested quote +Mr. Chae also spoke about his opinion on providing code S spot for foreign players. "I don't think GSL is same level as MLG. I believe foreign fans also think same as me. There is notable difference between the seed for Koreans to MLG Championship and the seed for foreigners to GSL code S Are we really saying that Inca is more skillful than say naniwa? Code S is being VERY disappointing for Mr. GOMTV to make such a statement. Also considering that koreans dropped like flies in the Chinese Gigabyte tournament, their bragging rights is down the drain.
inca's pvz is horrible, everyone knows that. however, his pvt and pvp are good, as he steamrolled the competition getting to the finals.
i wouldnt be surprised if inca beats naniwa and other top protoss and terran, and perhaps lose to top foreign zerg like idra, sen, dimaga
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The prize pool is just way too low. It just doesn't pay off. The competition is much harder and eve if you make it far you don't get very much - and that for wasting a month of time. The foreginer scene just has grown bigger than the korean scene, that's it. I think in the future more and more koreans will come over to europe/america rather than staying in korea as it is now.
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On May 22 2011 16:25 decaf wrote:
The prize pool is just way too low. It just doesn't pay off. The competition is much harder and eve if you make it far you don't get very much - and that for wasting a month of time. The foreginer scene just has grown bigger than the korean scene, that's it. I think in the future more and more koreans will come over to europe/america rather than staying in korea as it is now.
http://ehcg.djgamblore.com./
doesn't look like the prize pool is low to me.
16 of the top 25 tournament earners are Korean ><
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On May 22 2011 15:16 cheesemaster wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 14:52 pieman819 wrote:On May 22 2011 14:46 puttputt wrote:
How many tournaments are there in Korea?
How many tournaments are there in Europe?
It's an easy decision of where to stay. Looking at the last tournament roundup on TL only 5 guys made more money than the 16 guys that didn't make it out of the Code S group stages. and thats those 5 guys that were ahead were only because big tournaments were going on at the time, that is not going to happen every month. And still 5 guys is nothing considering that the people they are ahead of are the bottom of the barrel in code s. aside from thorzain anyone who made it past the round of 8 in korea made more money. Plus if you look at the top earner for starcraft in the past 4 months, top 10 or even 15 are gonna be korean before you will even see a foreigner. People are pretty ignorant aside from 2 tournaments in the west that dont equal even as much as 1 gsl overall (nasl happens over the course of 2 and a half gsl's and IPL has about 1/3rd of the prize pool of 1 gsl) the money is still in korea. Smaller online tournaments amount to nothing most are for 100-500 dollars with a 1000 - 2000 dollar one popping up once a month or so, and koreans play in the bigger ones such as the FXO tournaments so i dont see why a foreigner in korea wouldnt play in those and then some others. The FXO tournaments are played on NA and i beleive that every single one has been won by a korean. So regardless of weather your in korea or not your still not gonna get the top prize at any of these tournaments. And what are the chances of someone winning ALOT of these small online cups even if you win 3 in a month wich is pretty fucking rare you arent even probably gonna make as much as someone who didnt make it out of the round of 32 in code s. Sigh. i dont know how many more times im gonna have to explain this lol
This ... The only reason i see why foreigners are not attending the biggest SC2 tournament to date is the fact that they themselves don't believe they can win it or make it high up there or in other words compete with koreans . You can fly back for MLG or other big lan if you want to . You can play NASL , lag and uncomfortable playing hours doesn't seem to stop the StarTale team from tearing up appart the foreigners . So you can still compete in NA server based online events .
I don't see a reason why a player who is sponsored by a team doesn't want to compete in the biggest SC 2 tournament up to date without qualifiers or anything . Gom has provided you a house to stay there , so you are basicaly only have to pay for the food and from what i heard food isn't to expensive in korea .There is the question " Well what about my girlfriend ? " , just bring her over with you .
People are saying that you can't find good practise partners in korea ... You have the korean ladder the most competitive of all the ladders . You can get in touch with Jinro and Huk to get practise from the OGS-TL team , you can get in touch with Torch and have access to the StarTale team . Hell i don't think even if you walked out there to the IM house and ask for help practising for the Super Tournament i'm sure as hell that they won't reject you .
Koreans fly for a 1 - 2 day 10 + k lan . I am sure as hell that if there ever is a 100k over a month lan tournament outside of korea and koreans where invited or qualified for it . They will not just accept the offer , but will fly out in swarms for it . And that is because they are not cheapskates , they believe in their abilities and frankly they'll consider it as easy money to be made and that is a lot of money .
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On May 22 2011 16:25 decaf wrote:
The prize pool is just way too low. It just doesn't pay off. The competition is much harder and eve if you make it far you don't get very much - and that for wasting a month of time. The foreginer scene just has grown bigger than the korean scene, that's it. I think in the future more and more koreans will come over to europe/america rather than staying in korea as it is now.
No. Starcraft 2 has not even entered the mainstream yet in Korea. In two or three years when the license agreement between KeSPA and Blizzard expires, players are going to switch over to SC2 and there will be a major boom. Can you honestly see a majority of North American gamers even caring about Starcraft 2 three years in the future when Diablo 3 or the next super great graphics FPS comes out?
I understand that is an economic decision for foreigners to not go to Korea to play a tournament in which they are unlikely to win. However, the skill gap is going to only get wider as the years go on. This happened before with Starcraft 1. In the early years of SCBW, there were definitely foreigner players who could compete at the highest levels and a few even went to Korea to play. It's fine that the players are making decisions that benefit themselves; you can't blame anyone for that. But, 5 years down the road, let's not make 300 threads asking why the skill gap between Korean and foreigner players got so big.
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On May 22 2011 12:21 TT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 12:14 FXOpen wrote:
Gom gave approximately 2-3 weeks to get players to Korea for super tournament. It simply wasn't going to happen. but everyone got a 2-3 week heads up(not saying its right, its definitely something that gomtv needs to work on) for the world championships aswell, why is it that everyone managed to attend that and no one accepted their invitation to the super tournament?
Because as was stated by pros, by tt1, etc... THAT time they paid for the flight! That is a very significant difference.
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On May 22 2011 16:13 pieman819 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 16:10 oo inflame oo wrote:On May 22 2011 15:50 Fubi wrote:On May 22 2011 12:17 Tachion wrote:On May 22 2011 12:04 Werk wrote:
hard to beat the koreans? theres more cash to be made in EU and NA than there is in korea, why go to korea for a month when your just going to lose to much cash... the rejections surprise people? the prize $ rankings beg to differ http://ehcg.djgamblore.com./ Exactly this. I don't understand how people are trying to argue that the prize money in Korea is less than the rest of the world. Lets not even consider MVP, MC, or Nestea who won multiple GSLs. Just look at fruitdealer, winning once then never winning anything significant there after. He still made 3 times as much as the next highest foreigner so far. And people like Rain, Inca, July, who only got to the final once made comparable amount to the highest foreigner. Now if you were to win, there is no argument that your prize pool can be matched by anything outside of Korea. But lets face it, no foreigners (well more so their team and sponsors) are confident enough that they can even make it into top 4 or finals, let alone winning the GSL. So to them, its definitely true that the prize money in GSL isn't worth sacrificing all the other tournaments for. Yea this. Idra is the best NA player by a mile and the highest he got after 4 seasons was R016. We've seen players like Sen, Ret, and Haypro knocked out early, and we saw the foreigners dominated in the Korea vs the world tournament. If you're a foreigner that wants to become a better player than you've ever been before, go to Korea. If you want to make 'guranteed' money, you can play in a lot of European/NA tournaments. But if you are a foreigner who knows you have what it takes to consistently place high, RO16+, you will make more than any foreigner. But, sadly, I think there aren't too many foreigners who think they can do that. Perhaps Naniwa has the confidence. Idra made top 8 and was defeated by Jinro another foreigner and I'll say it for the 10th time in the last five pages losing in GSL round of 32 groups = same money as 4th at MLG. The consistant "gauranteed" money is in GSL as long as you can stay in code S.
It's not all about money. I know WhiteRa has a job and I'm sure it's difficult to find time off for a whole month for a not-so-sure-thing while his magazine thing is.
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On May 22 2011 16:10 oo inflame oo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 15:50 Fubi wrote:On May 22 2011 12:17 Tachion wrote:On May 22 2011 12:04 Werk wrote:
hard to beat the koreans? theres more cash to be made in EU and NA than there is in korea, why go to korea for a month when your just going to lose to much cash... the rejections surprise people? the prize $ rankings beg to differ http://ehcg.djgamblore.com./ Exactly this. I don't understand how people are trying to argue that the prize money in Korea is less than the rest of the world. Lets not even consider MVP, MC, or Nestea who won multiple GSLs. Just look at fruitdealer, winning once then never winning anything significant there after. He still made 3 times as much as the next highest foreigner so far. And people like Rain, Inca, July, who only got to the final once made comparable amount to the highest foreigner. Now if you were to win, there is no argument that your prize pool can be matched by anything outside of Korea. But lets face it, no foreigners (well more so their team and sponsors) are confident enough that they can even make it into top 4 or finals, let alone winning the GSL. So to them, its definitely true that the prize money in GSL isn't worth sacrificing all the other tournaments for. Yea this. Idra is the best NA player by a mile and the highest he got after 4 seasons was R016. We've seen players like Sen, Ret, and Haypro knocked out early, and we saw the foreigners dominated in the Korea vs the world tournament. If you're a foreigner that wants to become a better player than you've ever been before, go to Korea. If you want to make 'guranteed' money, you can play in a lot of European/NA tournaments. But if you are a foreigner who knows you have what it takes to consistently place high, RO16+, you will make more than any foreigner. But, sadly, I think there aren't too many foreigners who think they can do that. Perhaps Naniwa has the confidence.
foreigners dominated in korea v world? the winners league was 8-7.
idra ro16? get your facts straight.
if a player has the ability to constantly make ro16+ each tourny, they would make SO much more money outside of korea. When the blizz/gomtv contract ends in 2 years, then we will perhaps see more money in korea
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On May 22 2011 16:51 Ownos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 16:13 pieman819 wrote:On May 22 2011 16:10 oo inflame oo wrote:On May 22 2011 15:50 Fubi wrote:On May 22 2011 12:17 Tachion wrote:On May 22 2011 12:04 Werk wrote:
hard to beat the koreans? theres more cash to be made in EU and NA than there is in korea, why go to korea for a month when your just going to lose to much cash... the rejections surprise people? the prize $ rankings beg to differ http://ehcg.djgamblore.com./ Exactly this. I don't understand how people are trying to argue that the prize money in Korea is less than the rest of the world. Lets not even consider MVP, MC, or Nestea who won multiple GSLs. Just look at fruitdealer, winning once then never winning anything significant there after. He still made 3 times as much as the next highest foreigner so far. And people like Rain, Inca, July, who only got to the final once made comparable amount to the highest foreigner. Now if you were to win, there is no argument that your prize pool can be matched by anything outside of Korea. But lets face it, no foreigners (well more so their team and sponsors) are confident enough that they can even make it into top 4 or finals, let alone winning the GSL. So to them, its definitely true that the prize money in GSL isn't worth sacrificing all the other tournaments for. Yea this. Idra is the best NA player by a mile and the highest he got after 4 seasons was R016. We've seen players like Sen, Ret, and Haypro knocked out early, and we saw the foreigners dominated in the Korea vs the world tournament. If you're a foreigner that wants to become a better player than you've ever been before, go to Korea. If you want to make 'guranteed' money, you can play in a lot of European/NA tournaments. But if you are a foreigner who knows you have what it takes to consistently place high, RO16+, you will make more than any foreigner. But, sadly, I think there aren't too many foreigners who think they can do that. Perhaps Naniwa has the confidence. Idra made top 8 and was defeated by Jinro another foreigner and I'll say it for the 10th time in the last five pages losing in GSL round of 32 groups = same money as 4th at MLG. The consistant "gauranteed" money is in GSL as long as you can stay in code S. It's not all about money. I know WhiteRa has a job and I'm sure it's difficult to find time off for a whole month for a not-so-sure-thing while his magazine thing is.
Yes but I was responding to somone talking about the money, you are the second person to bring this up. It is common sense that not everyone has the same personal conditions and other factors affect whether or not they can go but again that has nothing to do with my post responding to somone talking about the money differences. Please read the posts people are responding to and not just there posts, the amount of repetition in this thread is insane.
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On May 22 2011 16:42 denzelz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 16:25 decaf wrote:
The prize pool is just way too low. It just doesn't pay off. The competition is much harder and eve if you make it far you don't get very much - and that for wasting a month of time. The foreginer scene just has grown bigger than the korean scene, that's it. I think in the future more and more koreans will come over to europe/america rather than staying in korea as it is now. No. Starcraft 2 has not even entered the mainstream yet in Korea. In two or three years when the license agreement between KeSPA and Blizzard expires, players are going to switch over to SC2 and there will be a major boom. Can you honestly see a majority of North American gamers even caring about Starcraft 2 three years in the future when Diablo 3 or the next super great graphics FPS comes out? I understand that is an economic decision for foreigners to not go to Korea to play a tournament in which they are unlikely to win. However, the skill gap is going to only get wider as the years go on. This happened before with Starcraft 1. In the early years of SCBW, there were definitely foreigner players who could compete at the highest levels and a few even went to Korea to play. It's fine that the players are making decisions that benefit themselves; you can't blame anyone for that. But, 5 years down the road, let's not make 300 threads asking why the skill gap between Korean and foreigner players got so big.
3 years from today I'll still play starcraft maybe not as much depending on how busy i am but i enjoy rts too much to quit for rpg.
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Can't the foreign SC2 teams each just send their best player? This is so they can test their chances agains the koreans. If they lose then they wouldn't have lost a lot of money but if they advance it will be very worth it. Why send the whole team if they are not confident they would advance to higher rounds? Just my 2 cents.
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On May 22 2011 16:07 TT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 16:04 Subversion wrote:On May 22 2011 15:34 TT1 wrote:On May 22 2011 15:31 Subversion wrote:On May 22 2011 14:58 TT1 wrote:On May 22 2011 14:53 Subversion wrote:On May 22 2011 14:31 TT1 wrote:On May 22 2011 14:15 Subversion wrote:On May 22 2011 12:19 TT1 wrote:On May 22 2011 12:10 Dawski wrote:
TT1 i love you and all but you gotta work on your communication haha. The way you made it sound in your response was that you are the representative of the entire foreigner community and that we all feel that we can't even compete in the first rounds of the tourney. Shouldve used better words like you did in your response with "enough of a skill difference to be a bad investment". Sometimes small things like that can piss people off when your trying to represent them.
and you have to admit but that world lineup that you said he was in denial about...was pretty fricken stacked and i also believe it would have a chance vs the top koreans ofc i was, the only players that would be able to compete vs koreans are the ones training in korea, all the other players would never be able to win consistently vs the top players Again, you keep speaking for everyone and making these sweeping statements. I really think you need to stop pretending you're the mouthpiece of the foreign community and speak for yourself. I really think a lot of foreigners who haven't even been to Korea, e.g. TSL3 finalists Naniwa and Thorzain, would not say that they can "never win consistently vs the top players". Being a pro player doesn't let you speak for everyone. The only person you can speak for is yourself, period. im not being a mouthpiece im just being honest, if you want to live in ur lil fictitious fairy land then be my guest You say you're "just being honest" but what you're spouting is your opinion and nothing more. You don't have tournament results to back this up. The few times we have seen some of our top foreigners go up against Koreans, they're performed very well. What evidence do you have to back your claims? You say I'm in a "fictitious fairy land" while you're the one sitting up there on some high horse making claims about other players abilities, which you have no right to do, nor any real basis on which to do that. Being a pro player doesn't exempt you from actually having to make a good argument. We're not just going to take everything you say as gospel when all actual evidence is contradictory to what you're saying. but wouldnt i have more credibility than you? if nony were to make the exact same statements that i just made would you have believed him? also you say i have no tournament results but you should take a closer look at this list: http://ehcg.djgamblore.com./my evidence is my word, and your evidence is based off of 1 tournament(tsl where the only foreigner who was competitive vs the koreans was thorzain)competitive , were both kinda turning in circles so ill give u the win Hey man look, I like you and I have no problem with you. I like Nony too, lol. I don't think you're like this uncredible person in the community or anything, as a progamer I value your opinions and insights, and you're rather vocal and I often agree with the things you say. I just can't help getting defensive of our players, and I guess I have a fair measure of "Western pride" if you can call it that. I just think there's this perception that these Koreans are these godlike players and while I think it was true in BW, I don't really think its applying in SC2. It's not just the TSL, its NASL and also even GSL, including the World Championships (where you yourself held your own!). I just think we need to stand up and say bring it Koreans, we can take you on and we can win. And I feel like this is true. The Korean forum translations we always see are of Koreans acting as if they're really superior and blaming stuff like latency and other extraneous crap on every loss to a foreigner. I just think we need to be proud and confident, and not say "yes, we know you're better than us..." and reinforce that belief. Anyways I do apologise if I sounded aggressive, I guess its just a touchy subject for me. Starcraft nationalism or something, hehe. I wish you the best of luck in the future na im sorry too i always take everything way too personally, im sure that every foreigner shares the same sentiments as you.. including me but i was only trying to speak honestly and most of the time when that happens i come off as being over-agressive, sorry about that<3 LOL its hilarious how many times i paused my prison break episode just to come on tl so i could hit the refresh button endlessly, kinda reminded me of the old tl days where id get into flamewars with idra and we would both sit on the thread hitting f5 every second... AAAHHH good times haha yeah, I get all like riled up and into and spam F5, then I start feeling bad 'cause I generally hate arguing with anyone, lol. <3 Also, you're STILL watching prison break? That show was awesome like 5 years ago dude :D i started watching season 1 yesterday, im up to episode 12
season 1 was the best, dont watch more than 3 season
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On May 22 2011 16:10 oo inflame oo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 15:50 Fubi wrote:On May 22 2011 12:17 Tachion wrote:On May 22 2011 12:04 Werk wrote:
hard to beat the koreans? theres more cash to be made in EU and NA than there is in korea, why go to korea for a month when your just going to lose to much cash... the rejections surprise people? the prize $ rankings beg to differ http://ehcg.djgamblore.com./ Exactly this. I don't understand how people are trying to argue that the prize money in Korea is less than the rest of the world. Lets not even consider MVP, MC, or Nestea who won multiple GSLs. Just look at fruitdealer, winning once then never winning anything significant there after. He still made 3 times as much as the next highest foreigner so far. And people like Rain, Inca, July, who only got to the final once made comparable amount to the highest foreigner. Now if you were to win, there is no argument that your prize pool can be matched by anything outside of Korea. But lets face it, no foreigners (well more so their team and sponsors) are confident enough that they can even make it into top 4 or finals, let alone winning the GSL. So to them, its definitely true that the prize money in GSL isn't worth sacrificing all the other tournaments for. and we saw the foreigners dominated in the Korea vs the world tournament.
what? only TT1 and DIMAGA made it to the RO8, and both lost there. 6 of the top 8 were Korean and all 4 of the final 4 were Korean. how is that foreigner domination?
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EPT
