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korea is not like flying to a european/US city to play a tournament either -
the culture is waaaay different, noone speaks english. it's fair to expect that 99% of foreigners would be out of their comfort zone and therefore wouldn't play to their best ability. it's pointless for them to enter.
it would be similar to playing in MLG with no clothes on.
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Srsly gamers these days lack dedication. I still remember back in early years of wc3, foreigners would fly to korea for months to have a chace to improve,even knowing that guaranteed being roflstomped ( they were). SK in 2003,4Kings in 2004, tons of others in 2005 for WEG ( tourney last 3 months each). In the end it paid off greatly as Insomnia and Grubby won WCG.
Now that the condition and prize are so much better,I cant really understand all the excuses.
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On May 22 2011 17:18 Arceus wrote:
Srsly gamers these days lack dedication. I still remember back in early years of wc3, foreigners would fly to korea for months to have a chace to improve,even knowing that guaranteed being roflstomped ( they were). SK in 2003,4Kings in 2004, tons of others in 2005 for WEG ( tourney last 3 months each). In the end it paid off greatly as Insomnia and Grubby won WCG.
Now that the condition and prize are so much better,I cant really understand all the excuses.
Because they can be very successful while staying at home.
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On May 22 2011 17:17 shizna wrote:
korea is not like flying to a european/US city to play a tournament either -
the culture is waaaay different, noone speaks english. it's fair to expect that 99% of foreigners would be out of their comfort zone and therefore wouldn't play to their best ability. it's pointless for them to enter.
I don't think the language/cultural barrier is really as much of an issue as the fact that a foreigner goes at the GSL kind of by him/herself while Koreans pros get the benefit of team organizations that have been refined over the BW years and converted over to SC2. This issue is out of GOM's control but I still think a pro who can fall back on regular partners for advice and practice will beat out (on average) another pro who can only really ladder by themselves.
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On May 22 2011 12:46 TT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 12:31 BackSideAttack wrote:Don't listen to the haters TT1. I really respect your maturity in admitting that there is a skill gap between foreigners and Koreans right now. I hope that you can continue to improve your play and someday go compete in GSL again. You have yourself a new fan  the problem is for every new fan i make myself 10 antifans : D
You have a talent for making Anti-fans, bravo.
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On May 22 2011 17:15 eggs wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 16:10 oo inflame oo wrote:On May 22 2011 15:50 Fubi wrote:On May 22 2011 12:17 Tachion wrote:On May 22 2011 12:04 Werk wrote:
hard to beat the koreans? theres more cash to be made in EU and NA than there is in korea, why go to korea for a month when your just going to lose to much cash... the rejections surprise people? the prize $ rankings beg to differ http://ehcg.djgamblore.com./ Exactly this. I don't understand how people are trying to argue that the prize money in Korea is less than the rest of the world. Lets not even consider MVP, MC, or Nestea who won multiple GSLs. Just look at fruitdealer, winning once then never winning anything significant there after. He still made 3 times as much as the next highest foreigner so far. And people like Rain, Inca, July, who only got to the final once made comparable amount to the highest foreigner. Now if you were to win, there is no argument that your prize pool can be matched by anything outside of Korea. But lets face it, no foreigners (well more so their team and sponsors) are confident enough that they can even make it into top 4 or finals, let alone winning the GSL. So to them, its definitely true that the prize money in GSL isn't worth sacrificing all the other tournaments for. and we saw the foreigners dominated in the Korea vs the world tournament. what? only TT1 and DIMAGA made it to the RO8, and both lost there. 6 of the top 8 were Korean and all 4 of the final 4 were Korean. how is that foreigner domination?
Perhaps, if you were literate you'd know that dominated is an adjective meaning destroyed or crushed.
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I think a lot of the problem is that Korea has really 1 big tournament or organization. This means that when an invitation is rejected it is like night and day for them. The European and American scenes have many different tournaments including online cups that can be competed in to supplement an income. Also they say that by winning on match you go up to 900 USD, is this near the travel expenses. Basically they are acting surprised that 'foreigners' don't want to come to their tournament when there seems to be very little incentive.
What it comes down to is that just because you think you have this huge prestige advantage doesn't mean that reality doesn't matter. It is a waste of time for players to travel a great distance for a slim shot at winning a smaller prize rather than diversify and make more money at home. If you think your players are so superior anyway and there is such a skill gap then why should you care if foreigners come over because they are bad. It doesn't make any sense.
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Such a ludicrous statement, there are many factors at hand. Living expenses, environment, team issues, family and so on. Like the post on the first page, they might be living in Korea for more than 3 weeks and that's the main thing. I don't think the foreign scene is in such low standard as "GSL". I mean MLG was way better than GSL this season in terms of games and such. Living in Korea will also cost you participating in other tournaments and also having different timezones as your team mates. Idra played on the ladder a lot when he was in Korea and lacking practice partners to help you in such a big tournament is a big loss.
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On May 22 2011 17:19 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 17:18 Arceus wrote:
Srsly gamers these days lack dedication. I still remember back in early years of wc3, foreigners would fly to korea for months to have a chace to improve,even knowing that guaranteed being roflstomped ( they were). SK in 2003,4Kings in 2004, tons of others in 2005 for WEG ( tourney last 3 months each). In the end it paid off greatly as Insomnia and Grubby won WCG.
Now that the condition and prize are so much better,I cant really understand all the excuses. Because they can be very successful while staying at home.
the problem is, the best players are still at korea. So if foreigners aren't willing to rain with the best even if it means more hassle and less money, korea is going to get further ahead and eventually just stomp the competition like they do in bw
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On May 22 2011 17:27 oo inflame oo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 17:15 eggs wrote:On May 22 2011 16:10 oo inflame oo wrote:On May 22 2011 15:50 Fubi wrote:On May 22 2011 12:17 Tachion wrote:On May 22 2011 12:04 Werk wrote:
hard to beat the koreans? theres more cash to be made in EU and NA than there is in korea, why go to korea for a month when your just going to lose to much cash... the rejections surprise people? the prize $ rankings beg to differ http://ehcg.djgamblore.com./ Exactly this. I don't understand how people are trying to argue that the prize money in Korea is less than the rest of the world. Lets not even consider MVP, MC, or Nestea who won multiple GSLs. Just look at fruitdealer, winning once then never winning anything significant there after. He still made 3 times as much as the next highest foreigner so far. And people like Rain, Inca, July, who only got to the final once made comparable amount to the highest foreigner. Now if you were to win, there is no argument that your prize pool can be matched by anything outside of Korea. But lets face it, no foreigners (well more so their team and sponsors) are confident enough that they can even make it into top 4 or finals, let alone winning the GSL. So to them, its definitely true that the prize money in GSL isn't worth sacrificing all the other tournaments for. and we saw the foreigners dominated in the Korea vs the world tournament. what? only TT1 and DIMAGA made it to the RO8, and both lost there. 6 of the top 8 were Korean and all 4 of the final 4 were Korean. how is that foreigner domination? Perhaps, if you were literate you'd know that dominated is an adjective meaning destroyed or crushed.
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On May 22 2011 17:39 Falcor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 17:19 jmbthirteen wrote:On May 22 2011 17:18 Arceus wrote:
Srsly gamers these days lack dedication. I still remember back in early years of wc3, foreigners would fly to korea for months to have a chace to improve,even knowing that guaranteed being roflstomped ( they were). SK in 2003,4Kings in 2004, tons of others in 2005 for WEG ( tourney last 3 months each). In the end it paid off greatly as Insomnia and Grubby won WCG.
Now that the condition and prize are so much better,I cant really understand all the excuses. Because they can be very successful while staying at home. the problem is, the best players are still at korea. So if foreigners aren't willing to rain with the best even if it means more hassle and less money, korea is going to get further ahead and eventually just stomp the competition like they do in bw
It's becoming pretty apparent from the responses in the thread that that is at most a secondary concern. If you can make as much money as a decent Korean Pro while playing at a diamond skill level, why wouldn't you? There's no incentive to improve until the Koreans start invading the foreign scene and winning most the tournaments.
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On May 22 2011 17:42 BackSideAttack wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 17:27 oo inflame oo wrote:On May 22 2011 17:15 eggs wrote:On May 22 2011 16:10 oo inflame oo wrote:On May 22 2011 15:50 Fubi wrote:On May 22 2011 12:17 Tachion wrote:On May 22 2011 12:04 Werk wrote:
hard to beat the koreans? theres more cash to be made in EU and NA than there is in korea, why go to korea for a month when your just going to lose to much cash... the rejections surprise people? the prize $ rankings beg to differ http://ehcg.djgamblore.com./ Exactly this. I don't understand how people are trying to argue that the prize money in Korea is less than the rest of the world. Lets not even consider MVP, MC, or Nestea who won multiple GSLs. Just look at fruitdealer, winning once then never winning anything significant there after. He still made 3 times as much as the next highest foreigner so far. And people like Rain, Inca, July, who only got to the final once made comparable amount to the highest foreigner. Now if you were to win, there is no argument that your prize pool can be matched by anything outside of Korea. But lets face it, no foreigners (well more so their team and sponsors) are confident enough that they can even make it into top 4 or finals, let alone winning the GSL. So to them, its definitely true that the prize money in GSL isn't worth sacrificing all the other tournaments for. and we saw the foreigners dominated in the Korea vs the world tournament. what? only TT1 and DIMAGA made it to the RO8, and both lost there. 6 of the top 8 were Korean and all 4 of the final 4 were Korean. how is that foreigner domination? Perhaps, if you were literate you'd know that dominated is an adjective meaning destroyed or crushed. His comment fully implies that he is literate...You, I'm not quite sure about.
Nope, the way it is used in that sentance is to state that the foreigners were the ones that were dominated. If it had been "and we saw the foreigners dominate in the Korea vs the world tournament" it would work they way you are thinking.
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On May 22 2011 17:46 pieman819 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 17:42 BackSideAttack wrote:On May 22 2011 17:27 oo inflame oo wrote:On May 22 2011 17:15 eggs wrote:On May 22 2011 16:10 oo inflame oo wrote:On May 22 2011 15:50 Fubi wrote:On May 22 2011 12:17 Tachion wrote:On May 22 2011 12:04 Werk wrote:
hard to beat the koreans? theres more cash to be made in EU and NA than there is in korea, why go to korea for a month when your just going to lose to much cash... the rejections surprise people? the prize $ rankings beg to differ http://ehcg.djgamblore.com./ Exactly this. I don't understand how people are trying to argue that the prize money in Korea is less than the rest of the world. Lets not even consider MVP, MC, or Nestea who won multiple GSLs. Just look at fruitdealer, winning once then never winning anything significant there after. He still made 3 times as much as the next highest foreigner so far. And people like Rain, Inca, July, who only got to the final once made comparable amount to the highest foreigner. Now if you were to win, there is no argument that your prize pool can be matched by anything outside of Korea. But lets face it, no foreigners (well more so their team and sponsors) are confident enough that they can even make it into top 4 or finals, let alone winning the GSL. So to them, its definitely true that the prize money in GSL isn't worth sacrificing all the other tournaments for. and we saw the foreigners dominated in the Korea vs the world tournament. what? only TT1 and DIMAGA made it to the RO8, and both lost there. 6 of the top 8 were Korean and all 4 of the final 4 were Korean. how is that foreigner domination? Perhaps, if you were literate you'd know that dominated is an adjective meaning destroyed or crushed. His comment fully implies that he is literate...You, I'm not quite sure about. Nope, the way it is used in that sentance is to state that the foreigners were the ones that were dominated. If it had been "and we saw the foreigners dominate in the Korea vs the world tournament" it would work they way you are thinking.
Yeah my bad lol....I read that too fast.
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On May 22 2011 17:46 pieman819 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 17:42 BackSideAttack wrote:On May 22 2011 17:27 oo inflame oo wrote:On May 22 2011 17:15 eggs wrote:On May 22 2011 16:10 oo inflame oo wrote:On May 22 2011 15:50 Fubi wrote:On May 22 2011 12:17 Tachion wrote:On May 22 2011 12:04 Werk wrote:
hard to beat the koreans? theres more cash to be made in EU and NA than there is in korea, why go to korea for a month when your just going to lose to much cash... the rejections surprise people? the prize $ rankings beg to differ http://ehcg.djgamblore.com./ Exactly this. I don't understand how people are trying to argue that the prize money in Korea is less than the rest of the world. Lets not even consider MVP, MC, or Nestea who won multiple GSLs. Just look at fruitdealer, winning once then never winning anything significant there after. He still made 3 times as much as the next highest foreigner so far. And people like Rain, Inca, July, who only got to the final once made comparable amount to the highest foreigner. Now if you were to win, there is no argument that your prize pool can be matched by anything outside of Korea. But lets face it, no foreigners (well more so their team and sponsors) are confident enough that they can even make it into top 4 or finals, let alone winning the GSL. So to them, its definitely true that the prize money in GSL isn't worth sacrificing all the other tournaments for. and we saw the foreigners dominated in the Korea vs the world tournament. what? only TT1 and DIMAGA made it to the RO8, and both lost there. 6 of the top 8 were Korean and all 4 of the final 4 were Korean. how is that foreigner domination? Perhaps, if you were literate you'd know that dominated is an adjective meaning destroyed or crushed. His comment fully implies that he is literate...You, I'm not quite sure about. Nope, the way it is used in that sentance is to state that the foreigners were the ones that were dominated. If it had been "and we saw the foreigners dominate in the Korea vs the world tournament" it would work they way you are thinking.
oh, i must've misunderstood it that way. i would've said "and we saw the foreigners WERE dominated in the Korea vs the world tournament" to make that point. inflame's wording can be taken both ways -_-
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On May 22 2011 15:50 pieman819 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 15:41 gregnog wrote:
Its pretty simple. Its a joke to spend that much time for such little benefit. Almost no screen time for your sponsors/team, and the only way of making real money is making like top 8 of Code S? There are plenty of Non-Koreans who can consistently compete in the GSL, all of our big names could. But why would they give up 2+ months of there life after spending thousands, and at the same time giving up every other competition? Literally the only positive result would be getting top 2 or 3. Even being the best player in the world you simply can't expect to do that.
Why is this so hard for some people to understand? Its not like every foreigner is shaking in fear, its just not smart to go to Korea. Why are people like you still not reading the thread where it is explained over an over that even if you lose all your code S group games you get the same money as 4th place MLG.
MLG
1 Weekend of expenses and loss of other competitions
GSL
If seeded into S- 1 month of expenses and loss of other competitions
If seeded into A- 2 months of expenses and loss of other competitions
It's simple math. Unless your name is MC/MVP/Nestea, its not economical or logical to compete in Korea. Even more so on the sponsor side of pro gaming. Do you think your sponsor cares about you getting some kind of tiny prize as your consolation for losing your Code S games? Its about marketing.
W/e though, all this has been said 
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Idra, Huk, and Jinro are all Code S people that have won MLG, I think it is unfair to say to MLG winners could not be seeded into Code S. Some one like Nawina could considered a very good runner for a Code S spot if he got a chance to go to Korea. I can't remember who else won MLG but I think it would only prove my point more.
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On May 22 2011 17:58 gregnog wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 15:50 pieman819 wrote:On May 22 2011 15:41 gregnog wrote:
Its pretty simple. Its a joke to spend that much time for such little benefit. Almost no screen time for your sponsors/team, and the only way of making real money is making like top 8 of Code S? There are plenty of Non-Koreans who can consistently compete in the GSL, all of our big names could. But why would they give up 2+ months of there life after spending thousands, and at the same time giving up every other competition? Literally the only positive result would be getting top 2 or 3. Even being the best player in the world you simply can't expect to do that.
Why is this so hard for some people to understand? Its not like every foreigner is shaking in fear, its just not smart to go to Korea. Why are people like you still not reading the thread where it is explained over an over that even if you lose all your code S group games you get the same money as 4th place MLG. MLG 1 Weekend of expenses and loss of other competitions GSL If seeded into S- 1 month of expenses and loss of other competitions If seeded into A- 2 months of expenses and loss of other competitions It's simple math. Unless your name is MC/MVP/Nestea, its not economical or logical to compete in Korea. Even more so on the sponsor side of pro gaming. Do you think your sponsor cares about you getting some kind of tiny prize as your consolation for losing your Code S games? Its about marketing.
1 month assumes you're making it to the Finals, in which case you're winning a LOT more money. it only takes 1 day to lose in the RO32, <1 week to lose in the RO16.
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On May 22 2011 17:58 gregnog wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 15:50 pieman819 wrote:On May 22 2011 15:41 gregnog wrote:
Its pretty simple. Its a joke to spend that much time for such little benefit. Almost no screen time for your sponsors/team, and the only way of making real money is making like top 8 of Code S? There are plenty of Non-Koreans who can consistently compete in the GSL, all of our big names could. But why would they give up 2+ months of there life after spending thousands, and at the same time giving up every other competition? Literally the only positive result would be getting top 2 or 3. Even being the best player in the world you simply can't expect to do that.
Why is this so hard for some people to understand? Its not like every foreigner is shaking in fear, its just not smart to go to Korea. Why are people like you still not reading the thread where it is explained over an over that even if you lose all your code S group games you get the same money as 4th place MLG. MLG 1 Weekend of expenses and loss of other competitions GSL If seeded into S- 1 month of expenses and loss of other competitions If seeded into A- 2 months of expenses and loss of other competitions It's simple math. Unless your name is MC/MVP/Nestea, its not economical or logical to compete in Korea. Even more so on the sponsor side of pro gaming. Do you think your sponsor cares about you getting some kind of tiny prize as your consolation for losing your Code S games? Its about marketing.
If you get seeded into them from MLG GOM Pays your flights and expenses.
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On May 22 2011 17:55 eggs wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 17:46 pieman819 wrote:On May 22 2011 17:42 BackSideAttack wrote:On May 22 2011 17:27 oo inflame oo wrote:On May 22 2011 17:15 eggs wrote:On May 22 2011 16:10 oo inflame oo wrote:On May 22 2011 15:50 Fubi wrote:On May 22 2011 12:17 Tachion wrote:On May 22 2011 12:04 Werk wrote:
hard to beat the koreans? theres more cash to be made in EU and NA than there is in korea, why go to korea for a month when your just going to lose to much cash... the rejections surprise people? the prize $ rankings beg to differ http://ehcg.djgamblore.com./ Exactly this. I don't understand how people are trying to argue that the prize money in Korea is less than the rest of the world. Lets not even consider MVP, MC, or Nestea who won multiple GSLs. Just look at fruitdealer, winning once then never winning anything significant there after. He still made 3 times as much as the next highest foreigner so far. And people like Rain, Inca, July, who only got to the final once made comparable amount to the highest foreigner. Now if you were to win, there is no argument that your prize pool can be matched by anything outside of Korea. But lets face it, no foreigners (well more so their team and sponsors) are confident enough that they can even make it into top 4 or finals, let alone winning the GSL. So to them, its definitely true that the prize money in GSL isn't worth sacrificing all the other tournaments for. and we saw the foreigners dominated in the Korea vs the world tournament. what? only TT1 and DIMAGA made it to the RO8, and both lost there. 6 of the top 8 were Korean and all 4 of the final 4 were Korean. how is that foreigner domination? Perhaps, if you were literate you'd know that dominated is an adjective meaning destroyed or crushed. His comment fully implies that he is literate...You, I'm not quite sure about. Nope, the way it is used in that sentance is to state that the foreigners were the ones that were dominated. If it had been "and we saw the foreigners dominate in the Korea vs the world tournament" it would work they way you are thinking. oh, i must've misunderstood it that way. i would've said "and we saw the foreigners WERE dominated in the Korea vs the world tournament" to make that point. inflame's wording can be taken both ways -_-
I'm assuming English isn't your native language, which is no biggie. Dominated is the past participle of dominate, so the 'were' is superfluous. If read correctly, the statement "and we saw the foreigners dominated" can only be taken one way.
Cheers
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On May 22 2011 18:01 eggs wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 17:58 gregnog wrote:On May 22 2011 15:50 pieman819 wrote:On May 22 2011 15:41 gregnog wrote:
Its pretty simple. Its a joke to spend that much time for such little benefit. Almost no screen time for your sponsors/team, and the only way of making real money is making like top 8 of Code S? There are plenty of Non-Koreans who can consistently compete in the GSL, all of our big names could. But why would they give up 2+ months of there life after spending thousands, and at the same time giving up every other competition? Literally the only positive result would be getting top 2 or 3. Even being the best player in the world you simply can't expect to do that.
Why is this so hard for some people to understand? Its not like every foreigner is shaking in fear, its just not smart to go to Korea. Why are people like you still not reading the thread where it is explained over an over that even if you lose all your code S group games you get the same money as 4th place MLG. MLG 1 Weekend of expenses and loss of other competitions GSL If seeded into S- 1 month of expenses and loss of other competitions If seeded into A- 2 months of expenses and loss of other competitions It's simple math. Unless your name is MC/MVP/Nestea, its not economical or logical to compete in Korea. Even more so on the sponsor side of pro gaming. Do you think your sponsor cares about you getting some kind of tiny prize as your consolation for losing your Code S games? Its about marketing. 1 month assumes you're making it to the Finals, in which case you're winning a LOT more money. it only takes 1 day to lose in the RO32, <1 week to lose in the RO16.
You only make "a LOT more money" in the finals of code S. Most of the spots offered by GOM to potential MLG top finishers are for code A ... which is kinda the "amateur league" when you look at the pay. Obviously no one will take that chance, because it means a lot of risk for a small reward and if you are good enough to qualify for a code S spot you have one month with "nothing to do" inbetweem GSL seasons. It simply isnt economic or practical to move back and forth that often, so Korea is unattractive and the reason is the long term tournaments. The "super tournament" is just a filler tournament between GSL seasons, but the scale and organization sucks.
Koreans may be - on average - better than non-Koreans, but the fact is that the "best of the rest" can still beat them. I would dearly love to see those top Koreans in a "LAN tournament" where they have to play tons of games against good players. MLG Columbus will be the first real test, although the arguments raised on SotG are valid as well and they shouldnt get the "royal treatment" they are getting now.
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EPT
