On January 16 2013 11:52 jalstar wrote: I find the idea that organizations make any significant percentage of their profit from page views from player signing announcements, as well as the idea that people get into esports because they see a team has just signed a player, to be equally absurd.
The real fight here was EG trying to turn public opinion against Slasher, a thing they've done relatively well. If anyone thinks page views from player signings are relevant to the survival of esports they are completely delusional.
what makes more sense, the most successful team owner in the business describing explicitly how it hurts the way his team operates or us having some weird vendetta against slasher?
Definitely the latter. That guy was fucking pissed. It had to be personal.
On January 16 2013 11:52 jalstar wrote: I find the idea that organizations make any significant percentage of their profit from page views from player signing announcements, as well as the idea that people get into esports because they see a team has just signed a player, to be equally absurd.
The real fight here was EG trying to turn public opinion against Slasher, a thing they've done relatively well. If anyone thinks page views from player signings are relevant to the survival of esports they are completely delusional.
what makes more sense, the most successful team owner in the business describing explicitly how it hurts the way his team operates or us having some weird vendetta against slasher?
The latter, especially with how ITG/EG has operated in the past (see Milkis)
EG really good at gangbanging anyone they hate.
We're not seriously going to defend Milkis are we? He dug his own grave and even popped up recently with the same bloody attitude.
On January 16 2013 11:14 mainerd wrote: Slasher reports stuff early, what's the big deal, some people seem to want it. The teams don't have to like it, Slasher's trying to make a buck in the market just like the players, teams, their owners and the sponsors are. Why does he have to be publicly pilloried for it? You don't have to like the guy or what he does, but this kind of early reporting is pretty standard, not just in sports news but in technology news, politics, entertainment, etc. Alex should just stop giving info to Slasher if he has a problem with it. It seemed really selfish on Alex's part to turn this into something so dramatic, where he's somehow entitled to the views on a piece of information that's left his control.
Why Alex thinks he deserves this deference from Slasher is beyond me. Is it because of the health and growth of eSports? eSports is not some fantasy market where the rules which govern every other market do not apply. Don't like early reporting, that's your problem, not Slasher's, instead of blowing it up in public how about dealing with it appropriately in private so you aren't likely to have your announcements spoiled? Show some class.
The thing is with leaking the news early everyone is losing, like TB said, he/we could get some awesome _actual_ journalism and exclusive interviews but he'd rather just leak the news to get quick page views. I mean good for him that's how he gets most of he pageviews but overall we're all losing with this system.
Reporting something is journalism!
Acting as a mouthpiece for a company and only doing what they on the other hand is not journalism!
Tweeting one liners of upcoming news isn't journalism. Doing interviews, research, and opinion pieces is journalism.
Yes it is, just because it is light on the detail does not make it not journalism.
Yeah, we'll keep that in mind when anyone wants to go to school and major in journalism tell them that all you need to do is write 160 characters or less, and poof you're gosu at journalism.
So it is not journalism now because of the length of what someone writes?
Bar the fact it does meet the criteria for being called journalism?
It might not be the best journalism, it it still is (journalism).
Ted Koppel (In case you don't know who he is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Koppel) disagrees strongly with that view, and I'm inclined to agree with him. I posted a link to it here earlier, but he was the speaker at my commencement last year and gave a wonderful speech about how journalists and the media in general care way more about getting news and facts out to you quickly rather than doing actual investigations and real journalism, and that we should care far more about substance than speed.
They should care more about substance, but that does not make anything else not journalism.
It just makes it bad journalism that we shouldn't want.
But it is not. Bad journalism is when facts are left out/misreported (often to suite a view point), twitting the news is lazy at worst.
On January 16 2013 11:52 jalstar wrote: I find the idea that organizations make any significant percentage of their profit from page views from player signing announcements, as well as the idea that people get into esports because they see a team has just signed a player, to be equally absurd.
The real fight here was EG trying to turn public opinion against Slasher, a thing they've done relatively well. If anyone thinks page views from player signings are relevant to the survival of esports they are completely delusional.
what makes more sense, the most successful team owner in the business describing explicitly how it hurts the way his team operates or us having some weird vendetta against slasher?
The latter, especially with how ITG/EG has operated in the past (see Milkis)
EG really good at gangbanging anyone they hate.
No one is hating on Slasher, they all respected what he does. Its the mere fact that he wouldn't even clarify on ANYTHING is idiotic.
On January 16 2013 11:52 jalstar wrote: I find the idea that organizations make any significant percentage of their profit from page views from player signing announcements, as well as the idea that people get into esports because they see a team has just signed a player, to be equally absurd.
The real fight here was EG trying to turn public opinion against Slasher, a thing they've done relatively well. If anyone thinks page views from player signings are relevant to the survival of esports they are completely delusional.
what makes more sense, the most successful team owner in the business describing explicitly how it hurts the way his team operates or us having some weird vendetta against slasher?
The latter, especially with how ITG/EG has operated in the past (see Milkis)
EG really good at gangbanging anyone they hate.
you realize milkis is generally disliked as an obnoxious twat? we discussed the things that he did to get himself labelled as an idiot, which is one of the things that you do as a talk show. thats very different than trying to make up a cause and get someone hated.
On January 16 2013 11:52 jalstar wrote: I find the idea that organizations make any significant percentage of their profit from page views from player signing announcements, as well as the idea that people get into esports because they see a team has just signed a player, to be equally absurd.
The real fight here was EG trying to turn public opinion against Slasher, a thing they've done relatively well. If anyone thinks page views from player signings are relevant to the survival of esports they are completely delusional.
They also seem to think "esports" news and reporting should work differently than any other sport. There are entire sites dedicated to reporting info with nothing but "sources" behind them (almost no names ever unless the source isn't at risk at all). People trust those reports the more they're right, and the teams having info leaked about them can do nothing but try to plug up the leaks. It's funny people think SC and pro gaming in general should get the kiddie glove treatment in regards to this.
It shouldn't... eventually. The problem is that right now, as Total Biscuit was saying, is that only a few organizations can actually survive this happening as often as it does. Most of the organizations aren't big enough to handle it yet.
EG came out awful in this debate. They sound like CBS wanting to control the media. There is no point for slasher not to break the news if he has it from his sources. What EG suggests is that reporters should be nothing more than PR mouth pieces for teams and only to announce things after they announce it. That is just frankly laughable and a naive view of the world because that is just not how it works in reality in any industry. Disappointed in EG and it's just sour grapes by them. Slasher is 100% right in the way he breaks news people want to hear. EG just wants him to be a puppet for them.
On January 16 2013 11:52 jalstar wrote: I find the idea that organizations make any significant percentage of their profit from page views from player signing announcements, as well as the idea that people get into esports because they see a team has just signed a player, to be equally absurd.
The real fight here was EG trying to turn public opinion against Slasher, a thing they've done relatively well. If anyone thinks page views from player signings are relevant to the survival of esports they are completely delusional.
what makes more sense, the most successful team owner in the business describing explicitly how it hurts the way his team operates or us having some weird vendetta against slasher?
The latter, especially with how ITG/EG has operated in the past (see Milkis)
EG really good at gangbanging anyone they hate.
you realize milkis is generally disliked as an obnoxious twat?
Putting everything that was discussed on the show tonight I just want to say this was a great show tonight. I really enjoy episodes where heated discussions take place that are truly enjoyable to listen to. I hope future ITGs are similar to this one.
I fully agree with Fionn, glad you're a TL writer because you're good at putting thoughts into writing, I couldn't do that as well in English, but what you're trying to convey is exactly what I'm thinking.
On January 16 2013 11:52 jalstar wrote: I find the idea that organizations make any significant percentage of their profit from page views from player signing announcements, as well as the idea that people get into esports because they see a team has just signed a player, to be equally absurd.
The real fight here was EG trying to turn public opinion against Slasher, a thing they've done relatively well. If anyone thinks page views from player signings are relevant to the survival of esports they are completely delusional.
what makes more sense, the most successful team owner in the business describing explicitly how it hurts the way his team operates or us having some weird vendetta against slasher?
The latter, especially with how ITG/EG has operated in the past (see Milkis)
EG really good at gangbanging anyone they hate.
you realize milkis is generally disliked as an obnoxious twat?
On January 16 2013 11:52 jalstar wrote: I find the idea that organizations make any significant percentage of their profit from page views from player signing announcements, as well as the idea that people get into esports because they see a team has just signed a player, to be equally absurd.
The real fight here was EG trying to turn public opinion against Slasher, a thing they've done relatively well. If anyone thinks page views from player signings are relevant to the survival of esports they are completely delusional.
what makes more sense, the most successful team owner in the business describing explicitly how it hurts the way his team operates or us having some weird vendetta against slasher?
The latter, especially with how ITG/EG has operated in the past (see Milkis)
EG really good at gangbanging anyone they hate.
you realize milkis is generally disliked as an obnoxious twat?
Yes. Nicely done.
lol.
to be clear, lol@ you doing the exact thing you just tried to accuse us of doing. fuck you.
On January 16 2013 12:00 Canucklehead wrote: EG came out awful in this debate. They sound like CBS wanting to control the media. There is no point for slasher not to break the news if he has it from his sources. What EG suggests is that reporters should be nothing more than PR mouth pieces for teams and only to announce things after they announce it. That is just frankly laughable and a naive view of the world because that is just not how it works in reality in any industry. Disappointed in EG and it's just sour grapes by them. Slasher is 100% right in the way he breaks news people want to hear. EG just wants him to be a puppet for them.
I feel upset, I din't like how Alex came across when he was talking/treating slasher. But don't be like TB was better then Alex. Alex was emotional involved and spoke from the heart. TB was talking down on slasher making slasher as a fool with a lot of time and doesn't have the passion to make "Real News".
Blocking communication with a person because they "brake the news" is just silly. why don't you close all the grapevine and try distorted the the information?
On January 16 2013 12:00 Canucklehead wrote: EG came out awful in this debate. They sound like CBS wanting to control the media. There is no point for slasher not to break the news if he has it from his sources. What EG suggests is that reporters should be nothing more than PR mouth pieces for teams and only to announce things after they announce it. That is just frankly laughable and a naive view of the world because that is just not how it works in reality in any industry. Disappointed in EG and it's just sour grapes by them. Slasher is 100% right in the way he breaks news people want to hear. EG just wants him to be a puppet for them.
If Slasher worked in any other industry, he wouldn't be a writer. He might get hired for contacts and getting the information, but absolutely no sane news organization in a field that gets real attention would let him release the breaking news.
People want to talk about real sports...when's the last time a sports journalist wrote a 5 line article to leak a big trade?
On January 16 2013 12:01 ZergCacique wrote: I feel upset, I din't like how Alex came across when he was talking/treating slasher. But don't be like TB was better then Alex. Alex was emotional involved and spoke from the heart. TB was talking down on slasher making slasher as a fool with a lot of time and doesn't have the passion to make "Real News".
Blocking communication with a person because they "brake the news" is just silly. why don't you close all the grapevine and try distorted the the information?
im sorry this just my random thoughts
well, from my opinion, slasher basically tried to dodge every single question [as well as had a shitty mic that made it even more unbearably annoying to listen to him dodge] ~_~
On January 16 2013 12:00 Canucklehead wrote: EG came out awful in this debate. They sound like CBS wanting to control the media. There is no point for slasher not to break the news if he has it from his sources. What EG suggests is that reporters should be nothing more than PR mouth pieces for teams and only to announce things after they announce it. That is just frankly laughable and a naive view of the world because that is just not how it works in reality in any industry. Disappointed in EG and it's just sour grapes by them. Slasher is 100% right in the way he breaks news people want to hear. EG just wants him to be a puppet for them.
well. TBH, TB said that (too?)
No, TB said that savvy team owners can use journalists to their advantage by strategically dropping some information and keeping a tight lid on what they don't want leaked. It's very different from "journalists shouldn't do this." Using the media tactically is just smart marketing.
On January 16 2013 12:01 ZergCacique wrote: I feel upset, I din't like how Alex came across when he was talking/treating slasher. But don't be like TB was better then Alex. Alex was emotional involved and spoke from the heart. TB was talking down on slasher making slasher as a fool with a lot of time and doesn't have the passion to make "Real News".
Blocking communication with a person because they "brake the news" is just silly. why don't you close all the grapevine and try distorted the the information?
im sorry this just my random thoughts
well, from my opinion, slasher basically tried to dodge every single question [as well as had a shitty mic that made it even more unbearably annoying to listen to him dodge] ~_~
On January 16 2013 12:00 Canucklehead wrote: EG came out awful in this debate. They sound like CBS wanting to control the media. There is no point for slasher not to break the news if he has it from his sources. What EG suggests is that reporters should be nothing more than PR mouth pieces for teams and only to announce things after they announce it. That is just frankly laughable and a naive view of the world because that is just not how it works in reality in any industry. Disappointed in EG and it's just sour grapes by them. Slasher is 100% right in the way he breaks news people want to hear. EG just wants him to be a puppet for them.
well. TBH, TB said that (too?)
No, TB said that savvy team owners can use journalists to their advantage by strategically dropping some information and keeping a tight lid on what they don't want leaked. It's very different from "journalists shouldn't do this." Using the media tactically is just smart marketing.
How in the fuck did we ever get to a point to where people think that it's a journalists job to make a company look better? If anything, it's the exact opposite. Journalism exists to keep companies honest, not to work in unison with them for their press releases. At that point it's no longer journalism and you're just a side-arm being paid off by the team to do news statements. I'm curious, are there people here that feel like e-sports journalists should work right alongside teams and companies, yet feel like the political/journalists being in bed with each other in politics is wrong? Don't we always complain about bias media (be it fox news, MSNBC, CNN, etc...)? Those biases HAPPEN when journalists are no longer interested in reporting actual news and are more interested with making companies look better. If you want your company to look better, put a lid on leaks, and work on your own press releases/hype yourself. Don't try to fucking out-source YOUR COMPANY'S HYPE and YOUR ORGANIZATION'S NEWS STATEMENTS to a third party journalist, that's crazy ridiculous.
No, that's not a good point at all. Starcraft 2 is not the US Government or Exxon Mobile. Leaking announcements early for no reason isn't keeping anyone honest, it's just killing hype and that's it.
Though I agree it's their responsibility to clamp down on leaks and Slasher bears no responsibility to not leak things. However the teams also bear no responsibility to work with him if he does so.
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