On January 16 2013 10:42 R3m3mb3rM3 wrote: wtf the news dont help anyone? then why people read it? of course they help, i wanna hear the news as fast as possible... thats what the news are about arent they?
Nothing in actual sports gets leaked the teams give out the general information out AFTER teams announce things. Its something he doesn't understand.
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Did you seriously write that? Do you even follow sports at all because stuff in sports gets leaked all the damn time! When teams are asked about the leaks like trades/signing, they just deny it or offer a no comment until they officially announce it.
Anyone who followed the NHL lockout knows that there were tons of leaks on both the NHL and NHLPA's side. That's just one of many examples. Lebron going to Miami was leaked before he did his big "Decision" episode on ESPN. I can't believe someone actually believes there are no leaks in sports.
I don't think that this should be viewed as EG trying to control the media.
The premise of this debate is what is better for Esports as a community not what is "legal" or "allowed". From this perspective, I think EG brought up a lot of good points that went unanswered by Slasher, most notably, the fact that Esports is built off sponsors and fan hype/views. Doing something that is detrimental to the sponsors and then ultimately to ESports should be put up for debate and questioned. I know that it was kinda harsh on Slasher, but I hope he can think about this. No one is asking him to not do his job anymore, just to think for the community and mutual betterment.
Its not a matter of free speech, Slasher can say whatever he wants. The question is whether "saying whatever he wants" (ie. prematurely releasing news) is good for the community.
On January 16 2013 12:00 Canucklehead wrote: EG came out awful in this debate. They sound like CBS wanting to control the media. There is no point for slasher not to break the news if he has it from his sources. What EG suggests is that reporters should be nothing more than PR mouth pieces for teams and only to announce things after they announce it. That is just frankly laughable and a naive view of the world because that is just not how it works in reality in any industry. Disappointed in EG and it's just sour grapes by them. Slasher is 100% right in the way he breaks news people want to hear. EG just wants him to be a puppet for them.
If Slasher worked in any other industry, he wouldn't be a writer. He might get hired for contacts and getting the information, but absolutely no sane news organization in a field that gets real attention would let him release the breaking news.
People want to talk about real sports...when's the last time a sports journalist wrote a 5 line article to leak a big trade?
this is my main argument, Slasher is no longer a journalist in my eyes. There is no main stream sports journalist who put just a paragraph and still be part of any major sports site.
On January 16 2013 12:06 fuzzylogic44 wrote: No, that's not a good point at all. Starcraft 2 is not the US Government or Exxon Mobile. Leaking announcements early for no reason isn't keeping anyone honest, it's just killing hype and that's it.
Though I agree it's their responsibility to clamp down on leaks and Slasher bears no responsibility to not leak things. However the teams also bear no responsibility to work with him if he does so.
I'd have to agree, Destiny is making a populist strawman statement, he does this quite a bit, good tactic but ultimately not so useful to the discussion. I'd dislike him if he also wasn't capable of putting together very salient points.
Incontrol made an excellent point actually that isn't been discussed enough. Why the fuck wasn't the TSL issue talked about? Incontrols allegations were paramount to embezzlement, why the fuck wasn't everyone falling over themselves to break that story. Is it just not ok to criticize ESF teams or something? Where the heck is the journalism related to stuff like that?
IMO leaking an announcement is not journalism because it is information that will be made public. I have to agree with the panel - why leak it when you could use the information to ask for an exclusive interview, or use that time to produce content that you could release immediately after the announcement? There are other options besides spoiling announcements, and most of them are probably better for everyone involved.
On January 16 2013 12:06 fuzzylogic44 wrote: No, that's not a good point at all. Starcraft 2 is not the US Government or Exxon Mobile. Leaking announcements early for no reason isn't keeping anyone honest, it's just killing hype and that's it.
Though I agree it's their responsibility to clamp down on leaks and Slasher bears no responsibility to not leak things. However the teams also bear no responsibility to work with him if he does so.
I'd have to agree, Destiny is making a populist strawman statement, he does this quite a bit, good tactic but ultimately not so useful to the discussion. I'd dislike him if he also wasn't capable of putting together very salient points.
Incontrol made an excellent point actually that isn't been discussed enough. Why the fuck wasn't the TSL issue talked about? Incontrols allegations were paramount to embezzlement, why the fuck wasn't everyone falling over themselves to break that story. Is it just not ok to criticize ESF teams or something? Where the heck is the journalism related to stuff like that?
Coach Lee was shit on all the time. From the Puma debacle, to hacking into Alive's Skype, to not paying players like Polt, Coach Lee got criticized more than any person I can remember. I am guessing that TSL isn't a bigger story or being reported on because Slasher probably doesn't have the same "sources" in Korea than he does in the foreign scene.
I hope something positives comes from this and it doesn't just end up with people fighting over who is right, personally I think both sides can do a lot better (Slasher especially can put a lot more effort into how/when he breaks stories and teams can break them sooner/with less people knowing, talking about it to everyone)
I would have loved if they talked about this on LO3 and talked about more sc2 with so much happening lately but it was a fun show.
Get Demuslim or QXC as the permanent terran host imo!!
On January 16 2013 12:06 fuzzylogic44 wrote: No, that's not a good point at all. Starcraft 2 is not the US Government or Exxon Mobile. Leaking announcements early for no reason isn't keeping anyone honest, it's just killing hype and that's it.
Though I agree it's their responsibility to clamp down on leaks and Slasher bears no responsibility to not leak things. However the teams also bear no responsibility to work with him if he does so.
I'd have to agree, Destiny is making a populist strawman statement, he does this quite a bit, good tactic but ultimately not so useful to the discussion. I'd dislike him if he also wasn't capable of putting together very salient points.
Incontrol made an excellent point actually that isn't been discussed enough. Why the fuck wasn't the TSL issue talked about? Incontrols allegations were paramount to embezzlement, why the fuck wasn't everyone falling over themselves to break that story. Is it just not ok to criticize ESF teams or something? Where the heck is the journalism related to stuff like that?
This is why I have lost faith in Slasher, just look at his older work. You can clearly see the passion and work he put into each of those articles or interviews. Where is that now?
What EG suggests is that reporters should be nothing more than PR mouth pieces for teams and only to announce things after they announce it
I don't think it is quite that simple. That doesn't help anybody (not even EG)
What Slasher currently does is leak the news before it's out. I would almost argue that it is not very different then being a PR mouth piece. After all, he is just saying the same thing EG PR will say (Obviously, before vs after is a big difference that cannot be ignored) How is that bringing much value to the table? The news would still come out a couple of days later. That's why the idea of him respecting embargos and getting interviews/solid analysis/opinion pieces/comments out of it is so appealing.
I do agree that Slasher is entirely entitled to break the news when he has access to information. What happens though if he burns all the bridges he has access to and nobody wants to work with him anymore? There is a symbiotic relationship between teams and journalists in e-sports AND in sports. There is room for a balanced approach here. You can have a good relationship with a team without just being a PR mouthpiece.
Alex hinted that Victor from TL was not happy at all with how the Snute announcement was snuffed. Would certainly like to hear his thoughts.
On January 16 2013 12:06 fuzzylogic44 wrote: No, that's not a good point at all. Starcraft 2 is not the US Government or Exxon Mobile. Leaking announcements early for no reason isn't keeping anyone honest, it's just killing hype and that's it.
Though I agree it's their responsibility to clamp down on leaks and Slasher bears no responsibility to not leak things. However the teams also bear no responsibility to work with him if he does so.
I'd have to agree, Destiny is making a populist strawman statement, he does this quite a bit, good tactic but ultimately not so useful to the discussion. I'd dislike him if he also wasn't capable of putting together very salient points.
Incontrol made an excellent point actually that isn't been discussed enough. Why the fuck wasn't the TSL issue talked about? Incontrols allegations were paramount to embezzlement, why the fuck wasn't everyone falling over themselves to break that story. Is it just not ok to criticize ESF teams or something? Where the heck is the journalism related to stuff like that?
This is why I have lost faith in Slasher, just look at his older work. You can clearly see the passion and work he put into each of those articles or interviews. Where is that now?
I think his passion is still there but now he has a job that needs him to get X amount of page views (or w/e) so he is taking the easier road to get them.
On January 16 2013 12:06 fuzzylogic44 wrote: No, that's not a good point at all. Starcraft 2 is not the US Government or Exxon Mobile. Leaking announcements early for no reason isn't keeping anyone honest, it's just killing hype and that's it.
Though I agree it's their responsibility to clamp down on leaks and Slasher bears no responsibility to not leak things. However the teams also bear no responsibility to work with him if he does so.
I'd have to agree, Destiny is making a populist strawman statement, he does this quite a bit, good tactic but ultimately not so useful to the discussion. I'd dislike him if he also wasn't capable of putting together very salient points.
Incontrol made an excellent point actually that isn't been discussed enough. Why the fuck wasn't the TSL issue talked about? Incontrols allegations were paramount to embezzlement, why the fuck wasn't everyone falling over themselves to break that story. Is it just not ok to criticize ESF teams or something? Where the heck is the journalism related to stuff like that?
This is why I have lost faith in Slasher, just look at his older work. You can clearly see the passion and work he put into each of those articles or interviews. Where is that now?
I think his passion is still there but now he has a job that needs him to get X amount of page views (or w/e) so he is taking the easier road to get them.
Was that not also a question that was brought up, after he wouldn't answer the Thorzain question? Yet again he didn't bother to actually answer it.
On January 16 2013 12:06 fuzzylogic44 wrote: No, that's not a good point at all. Starcraft 2 is not the US Government or Exxon Mobile. Leaking announcements early for no reason isn't keeping anyone honest, it's just killing hype and that's it.
Though I agree it's their responsibility to clamp down on leaks and Slasher bears no responsibility to not leak things. However the teams also bear no responsibility to work with him if he does so.
I'd have to agree, Destiny is making a populist strawman statement, he does this quite a bit, good tactic but ultimately not so useful to the discussion. I'd dislike him if he also wasn't capable of putting together very salient points.
Incontrol made an excellent point actually that isn't been discussed enough. Why the fuck wasn't the TSL issue talked about? Incontrols allegations were paramount to embezzlement, why the fuck wasn't everyone falling over themselves to break that story. Is it just not ok to criticize ESF teams or something? Where the heck is the journalism related to stuff like that?
This is why I have lost faith in Slasher, just look at his older work. You can clearly see the passion and work he put into each of those articles or interviews. Where is that now?
Leaking news on which top free agent is going to which team is going to get more views than a 30 minute in-depth interview with a player or writing a 5 page article on why the upcoming SC2 tournament is so special.
On January 16 2013 12:18 Thrax wrote: I do agree that Slasher is entirely entitled to break the news when he has access to information. What happens though if he burns all the bridges he has access to and nobody wants to work with him anymore?
That is Slashers problem and his alone. This whole discussion has been pointlessly turned into a personal issue and a verdict on quality of journalism. And worse of all it turns out that transparency actually hurts e-sports because it can hurt teams profits. The whole thing must be in shambles already if we have come to such arguments.
On January 16 2013 12:06 fuzzylogic44 wrote: No, that's not a good point at all. Starcraft 2 is not the US Government or Exxon Mobile. Leaking announcements early for no reason isn't keeping anyone honest, it's just killing hype and that's it.
Though I agree it's their responsibility to clamp down on leaks and Slasher bears no responsibility to not leak things. However the teams also bear no responsibility to work with him if he does so.
I'd have to agree, Destiny is making a populist strawman statement, he does this quite a bit, good tactic but ultimately not so useful to the discussion. I'd dislike him if he also wasn't capable of putting together very salient points.
Incontrol made an excellent point actually that isn't been discussed enough. Why the fuck wasn't the TSL issue talked about? Incontrols allegations were paramount to embezzlement, why the fuck wasn't everyone falling over themselves to break that story. Is it just not ok to criticize ESF teams or something? Where the heck is the journalism related to stuff like that?
This is why I have lost faith in Slasher, just look at his older work. You can clearly see the passion and work he put into each of those articles or interviews. Where is that now?
Leaking news on which top free agent is going to which team is going to get more views than a 30 minute in-depth interview with a player or writing a 5 page article on why the upcoming SC2 tournament is so special.
Next time just get people on your team to leak fake info, have Slasher announce it, and then look silly when it never happens or the player denies he is going to whatever team he reported on. If Slasher's sources dry up because he is fucking up business, then I won't feel sorry for him in the slightest. If him burning bridges will make people dislike him and not want to share information, then that's how it goes. If he still hears the gossip, picks up reliable signings from sources and continues being right, then good on him for somehow breaking story after story without getting fucked over by a fake lead or having all his bridges burnt.
On January 16 2013 12:09 tozi wrote: I don't think that this should be viewed as EG trying to control the media.
The premise of this debate is what is better for Esports as a community not what is "legal" or "allowed". From this perspective, I think EG brought up a lot of good points that went unanswered by Slasher, most notably, the fact that Esports is built off sponsors and fan hype/views. Doing something that is detrimental to the sponsors and then ultimately to ESports should be put up for debate and questioned. I know that it was kinda harsh on Slasher, but I hope he can think about this. No one is asking him to not do his job anymore, just to think for the community and mutual betterment.
Its not a matter of free speech, Slasher can say whatever he wants. The question is whether "saying whatever he wants" (ie. prematurely releasing news) is good for the community.
the problem is, his livelihood depends on it. he is one of the few to actually get paid for it.
TL depends on voluntary work. it works for us, since it has already reached a threshold big enough to attract community contributions. does that mean, we'd like it to stay that way forever?
impact and reach are the currency. the question is how much should be allocated to what party. ultimately, saying Slasher should have done X or Y (and the associated distribution of page-views A and B) means "your work of X and Y is worth to us A and B.
if that means, neither party is willing to give up part of the cake, then call it for what it is. every party will always try to get the most out of it. the question is, what is the ratio we are willing to allocate for 3rd party journalism?
EPT
