On April 27 2011 00:14 Lafonzo wrote: The problem with infestor as terran is they counter every thing . And to counter them You need, ghost,raven and tank . It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Zerg player just have to A move and fungal and terran to spam apm like shit to survive .
The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .
See, this could be done for your race as well.
Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well...
Except ghosts never actually kill anything. Ghosts's EMP is a one time deal and half your units have less than 70 shields. Fungals can be chained endlessly.
Siege tanks have 4 range extra range only if they have spotting vision. Otherwise its plus 2 range. This means your real leeway is only about 2 range.
PS. It takes 3 snipes (75 energy) to kill an infestor because of the +1 health regen.
A protoss army without shields is a dead army against an equal sized terran army.
It doesn't matter if siege tanks have 4 or 2 extra range since the damage is instant and a few siege tanks can completely deny infestors from getting in range.
If you stay one upgrade ahead of your zerg opponent you will be able to 2 shot with ghost snipes.
An EMPed protoss army can re-treat and regen its shields, a fungaled terran army can't.
Snipes and other spells don't benefit from weapon upgrades. If you don't know this, you are probably below diamond.
The extra 4 vs 2 range is a huge difference. If you don't think range matters, lets take away the roach range buff. Note that if the Terran player does have a massive number of siege tanks, Zergs can just toss infested terran cocoons into marine balls to deal damage.
Point is, infestors do far too much damage and is far too versatile. It is a unit with no weaknesses.
On April 27 2011 00:50 .Enigma. wrote:
On April 27 2011 00:42 Lafonzo wrote:
On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote:
On April 27 2011 00:14 Lafonzo wrote: The problem with infestor as terran is they counter every thing . And to counter them You need, ghost,raven and tank . It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Zerg player just have to A move and fungal and terran to spam apm like shit to survive .
The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .
See, this could be done for your race as well.
Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well...
These units are all counter by fungul . and cost a shit load of gaz. Raven should be a good counter to these if seeker missile would be better. well infestor had just get an Hp boost anyway .At the end you can survive and manage to counter them but in my opinion you need to much of an investment to counter them. Another point is to scout them to .You see an infestation pit it doesn't mean He goes for infestor He maybe just tech up so often your taken off guard by them .
Emp don't do any damage like storm or fungul. and no terran dont have to just A moove vs Toss. You have to postion you viking,using emp, pdd,stim and spread your units in an arc to survive .
You have tanks, blue flame hellions, thors, marines with stim and all that good stuff that does your damage. You can't have EMP to do damage aswell,
You don't need too much of an investment to "counter" them, that's like saying it's too much of an investment for me to counter ravens, since the Hunter Seeker Missile counters all my units when they're in a clump which means that I need more then just the "right" unit to be able to beat someone who has a ton of ravens.
It's the same thing with infestors where it makes you require more then just the right units but you also need to control your units well which is a good thing for the game.
Funny, tanks, hellions, thors, marines, all the good stuff, they are all countered by infestors. You can DODGE HSMs so easily if you have over 50 apm, not to mention dangers of missile drag. HSMs aint got nothing on Irradiate.
I like how you opened your post with Ghosts, then completely forgot about them when you concluded that the Infestor is a unit "with no weakness".
EMP the Infestors.
It's not a weakness if you force Terran to make a unit that has zero utility aside of infestors (not to mention at times you will probably need 2+ emps to drain the energy of a single infestor.).
Yeah I wish I didn't have to make banelings against marines because they're pretty useless against tanks and thors, obviously this makes marines overpowered as now I can't get 40 mutas super early
Banelings are INSANELY cost-effective against everything. They do massive amounts of damage to buildings, have amazing mobility, can be burrowed, can be dropped into mineral lines with almost no cost.
Can you say the same for a ghost?
Sure ghosts may be able to land a nuke against a retarded Zerg that doesn't get detection Sure ghosts may be able to cloak, just how many drones can a ghost kill before it gets owned by an overseer (and don't say you can snipe overseers either -_- they have absurd amounts of HP that you'd need about a 175 energy ghost to kill an overseer).
Oh, marines are also countered by:
Roaches, Infestors, Ultras, and even cracklngs that get a good surround
Yeah banelings are super cost effective against armored units my bad. And no, you're right, it's not like Ghosts have an ability which does 45 damage to every single zerg unit for 25 energy - they're not cost effective at all.
Anyhow I won't sit here and tell you how to play your race like I know better than you, I'll just tell you what every Terran and Protoss has been telling Zerg since the beta: figure it out for your own damn self. If you're not going to even consider anyones suggestions of unit compositions or strategies etc. there's no reason to give suggestions at all. Just do yourself a favour and don't lie to yourself about facts.
This is what pisses me off the most,
Zergs have NEVER figured anything out save the brainless "technique" of magic box muta vs thors. All they really did was cry for buffs and they got them.
Roach range buff? Check BBS Nerf? Check Reaper Nerf? Check Infestor Buff? Check Siege Tank Nerf? Check Stimpack Increase Time? Check Hatch/Lair/Hive Increased HP? Check No more bottom ramp pylon block? Check Medivac Nerf? Check
I dont know, infestors are really strong vs protoss, when combined with lings. Just as in PvT, it's harder to prevent HTs from being sniped, placing storm than it is for the terran to counter the HTs with EMP. Same with infestors, they are alot harder to get to and feedback than they can place a fungal and burrow.
They do insane damage against everything protoss aswell.
infestors are not countered by any of the units you mentioned unless you do not control your infestors properly... last time i checked fungal has greater range than marines/hellions rendering them completely useless even with tanks behind them
Don't run in with 20 marines in a clump to pick off infestors, run with small groups of fast units so that even if they get fungaled, it's worth it for you.
Also, drop play is very good against infestors since they are so slow.
this is implying that the zerg is playing w/ 1 control group, if the zerg is smart they can just leave 1 infestor at main or other expands and fungal the drop and wait for speedlings to clean it up considering the drop won't be moving/alive if it gets fungaled twice
Zerg can also just leave 10 Zerglings at each of their expansions to stop any of your drop play hard. Since Zergling is the fist combat unit Zerg can build, why are you even using drop against Zerg then?
On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote: [quote] The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .
See, this could be done for your race as well.
Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well...
Except ghosts never actually kill anything. Ghosts's EMP is a one time deal and half your units have less than 70 shields. Fungals can be chained endlessly.
Siege tanks have 4 range extra range only if they have spotting vision. Otherwise its plus 2 range. This means your real leeway is only about 2 range.
PS. It takes 3 snipes (75 energy) to kill an infestor because of the +1 health regen.
A protoss army without shields is a dead army against an equal sized terran army.
It doesn't matter if siege tanks have 4 or 2 extra range since the damage is instant and a few siege tanks can completely deny infestors from getting in range.
If you stay one upgrade ahead of your zerg opponent you will be able to 2 shot with ghost snipes.
An EMPed protoss army can re-treat and regen its shields, a fungaled terran army can't.
Snipes and other spells don't benefit from weapon upgrades. If you don't know this, you are probably below diamond.
The extra 4 vs 2 range is a huge difference. If you don't think range matters, lets take away the roach range buff. Note that if the Terran player does have a massive number of siege tanks, Zergs can just toss infested terran cocoons into marine balls to deal damage.
Point is, infestors do far too much damage and is far too versatile. It is a unit with no weaknesses.
On April 27 2011 00:50 .Enigma. wrote:
On April 27 2011 00:42 Lafonzo wrote:
On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote: [quote] The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .
See, this could be done for your race as well.
Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well...
These units are all counter by fungul . and cost a shit load of gaz. Raven should be a good counter to these if seeker missile would be better. well infestor had just get an Hp boost anyway .At the end you can survive and manage to counter them but in my opinion you need to much of an investment to counter them. Another point is to scout them to .You see an infestation pit it doesn't mean He goes for infestor He maybe just tech up so often your taken off guard by them .
Emp don't do any damage like storm or fungul. and no terran dont have to just A moove vs Toss. You have to postion you viking,using emp, pdd,stim and spread your units in an arc to survive .
You have tanks, blue flame hellions, thors, marines with stim and all that good stuff that does your damage. You can't have EMP to do damage aswell,
You don't need too much of an investment to "counter" them, that's like saying it's too much of an investment for me to counter ravens, since the Hunter Seeker Missile counters all my units when they're in a clump which means that I need more then just the "right" unit to be able to beat someone who has a ton of ravens.
It's the same thing with infestors where it makes you require more then just the right units but you also need to control your units well which is a good thing for the game.
Funny, tanks, hellions, thors, marines, all the good stuff, they are all countered by infestors. You can DODGE HSMs so easily if you have over 50 apm, not to mention dangers of missile drag. HSMs aint got nothing on Irradiate.
I like how you opened your post with Ghosts, then completely forgot about them when you concluded that the Infestor is a unit "with no weakness".
EMP the Infestors.
It's not a weakness if you force Terran to make a unit that has zero utility aside of infestors (not to mention at times you will probably need 2+ emps to drain the energy of a single infestor.).
Yeah I wish I didn't have to make banelings against marines because they're pretty useless against tanks and thors, obviously this makes marines overpowered as now I can't get 40 mutas super early
Banelings are INSANELY cost-effective against everything. They do massive amounts of damage to buildings, have amazing mobility, can be burrowed, can be dropped into mineral lines with almost no cost.
Can you say the same for a ghost?
Sure ghosts may be able to land a nuke against a retarded Zerg that doesn't get detection Sure ghosts may be able to cloak, just how many drones can a ghost kill before it gets owned by an overseer (and don't say you can snipe overseers either -_- they have absurd amounts of HP that you'd need about a 175 energy ghost to kill an overseer).
Oh, marines are also countered by:
Roaches, Infestors, Ultras, and even cracklngs that get a good surround
Yeah banelings are super cost effective against armored units my bad. And no, you're right, it's not like Ghosts have an ability which does 45 damage to every single zerg unit for 25 energy - they're not cost effective at all.
Anyhow I won't sit here and tell you how to play your race like I know better than you, I'll just tell you what every Terran and Protoss has been telling Zerg since the beta: figure it out for your own damn self. If you're not going to even consider anyones suggestions of unit compositions or strategies etc. there's no reason to give suggestions at all. Just do yourself a favour and don't lie to yourself about facts.
This is what pisses me off the most,
Zergs have NEVER figured anything out save the brainless "technique" of magic box muta vs thors. All they really did was cry for buffs and they got them.
On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote: [quote] The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .
See, this could be done for your race as well.
Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well...
Except ghosts never actually kill anything. Ghosts's EMP is a one time deal and half your units have less than 70 shields. Fungals can be chained endlessly.
Siege tanks have 4 range extra range only if they have spotting vision. Otherwise its plus 2 range. This means your real leeway is only about 2 range.
PS. It takes 3 snipes (75 energy) to kill an infestor because of the +1 health regen.
A protoss army without shields is a dead army against an equal sized terran army.
It doesn't matter if siege tanks have 4 or 2 extra range since the damage is instant and a few siege tanks can completely deny infestors from getting in range.
If you stay one upgrade ahead of your zerg opponent you will be able to 2 shot with ghost snipes.
An EMPed protoss army can re-treat and regen its shields, a fungaled terran army can't.
Snipes and other spells don't benefit from weapon upgrades. If you don't know this, you are probably below diamond.
The extra 4 vs 2 range is a huge difference. If you don't think range matters, lets take away the roach range buff. Note that if the Terran player does have a massive number of siege tanks, Zergs can just toss infested terran cocoons into marine balls to deal damage.
Point is, infestors do far too much damage and is far too versatile. It is a unit with no weaknesses.
On April 27 2011 00:50 .Enigma. wrote:
On April 27 2011 00:42 Lafonzo wrote:
On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote: [quote] The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .
See, this could be done for your race as well.
Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well...
These units are all counter by fungul . and cost a shit load of gaz. Raven should be a good counter to these if seeker missile would be better. well infestor had just get an Hp boost anyway .At the end you can survive and manage to counter them but in my opinion you need to much of an investment to counter them. Another point is to scout them to .You see an infestation pit it doesn't mean He goes for infestor He maybe just tech up so often your taken off guard by them .
Emp don't do any damage like storm or fungul. and no terran dont have to just A moove vs Toss. You have to postion you viking,using emp, pdd,stim and spread your units in an arc to survive .
You have tanks, blue flame hellions, thors, marines with stim and all that good stuff that does your damage. You can't have EMP to do damage aswell,
You don't need too much of an investment to "counter" them, that's like saying it's too much of an investment for me to counter ravens, since the Hunter Seeker Missile counters all my units when they're in a clump which means that I need more then just the "right" unit to be able to beat someone who has a ton of ravens.
It's the same thing with infestors where it makes you require more then just the right units but you also need to control your units well which is a good thing for the game.
Funny, tanks, hellions, thors, marines, all the good stuff, they are all countered by infestors. You can DODGE HSMs so easily if you have over 50 apm, not to mention dangers of missile drag. HSMs aint got nothing on Irradiate.
I like how you opened your post with Ghosts, then completely forgot about them when you concluded that the Infestor is a unit "with no weakness".
EMP the Infestors.
It's not a weakness if you force Terran to make a unit that has zero utility aside of infestors (not to mention at times you will probably need 2+ emps to drain the energy of a single infestor.).
Yeah I wish I didn't have to make banelings against marines because they're pretty useless against tanks and thors, obviously this makes marines overpowered as now I can't get 40 mutas super early
Banelings are INSANELY cost-effective against everything. They do massive amounts of damage to buildings, have amazing mobility, can be burrowed, can be dropped into mineral lines with almost no cost.
Can you say the same for a ghost?
Sure ghosts may be able to land a nuke against a retarded Zerg that doesn't get detection Sure ghosts may be able to cloak, just how many drones can a ghost kill before it gets owned by an overseer (and don't say you can snipe overseers either -_- they have absurd amounts of HP that you'd need about a 175 energy ghost to kill an overseer).
Oh, marines are also countered by:
Roaches, Infestors, Ultras, and even cracklngs that get a good surround
Yeah banelings are super cost effective against armored units my bad. And no, you're right, it's not like Ghosts have an ability which does 45 damage to every single zerg unit for 25 energy - they're not cost effective at all.
Anyhow I won't sit here and tell you how to play your race like I know better than you, I'll just tell you what every Terran and Protoss has been telling Zerg since the beta: figure it out for your own damn self. If you're not going to even consider anyones suggestions of unit compositions or strategies etc. there's no reason to give suggestions at all. Just do yourself a favour and don't lie to yourself about facts.
This is what pisses me off the most,
Zergs have NEVER figured anything out save the brainless "technique" of magic box muta vs thors. All they really did was cry for buffs and they got them.
On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote: [quote] The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .
See, this could be done for your race as well.
Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well...
Except ghosts never actually kill anything. Ghosts's EMP is a one time deal and half your units have less than 70 shields. Fungals can be chained endlessly.
Siege tanks have 4 range extra range only if they have spotting vision. Otherwise its plus 2 range. This means your real leeway is only about 2 range.
PS. It takes 3 snipes (75 energy) to kill an infestor because of the +1 health regen.
A protoss army without shields is a dead army against an equal sized terran army.
It doesn't matter if siege tanks have 4 or 2 extra range since the damage is instant and a few siege tanks can completely deny infestors from getting in range.
If you stay one upgrade ahead of your zerg opponent you will be able to 2 shot with ghost snipes.
An EMPed protoss army can re-treat and regen its shields, a fungaled terran army can't.
Snipes and other spells don't benefit from weapon upgrades. If you don't know this, you are probably below diamond.
The extra 4 vs 2 range is a huge difference. If you don't think range matters, lets take away the roach range buff. Note that if the Terran player does have a massive number of siege tanks, Zergs can just toss infested terran cocoons into marine balls to deal damage.
Point is, infestors do far too much damage and is far too versatile. It is a unit with no weaknesses.
On April 27 2011 00:50 .Enigma. wrote:
On April 27 2011 00:42 Lafonzo wrote:
On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote: [quote] The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .
See, this could be done for your race as well.
Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well...
These units are all counter by fungul . and cost a shit load of gaz. Raven should be a good counter to these if seeker missile would be better. well infestor had just get an Hp boost anyway .At the end you can survive and manage to counter them but in my opinion you need to much of an investment to counter them. Another point is to scout them to .You see an infestation pit it doesn't mean He goes for infestor He maybe just tech up so often your taken off guard by them .
Emp don't do any damage like storm or fungul. and no terran dont have to just A moove vs Toss. You have to postion you viking,using emp, pdd,stim and spread your units in an arc to survive .
You have tanks, blue flame hellions, thors, marines with stim and all that good stuff that does your damage. You can't have EMP to do damage aswell,
You don't need too much of an investment to "counter" them, that's like saying it's too much of an investment for me to counter ravens, since the Hunter Seeker Missile counters all my units when they're in a clump which means that I need more then just the "right" unit to be able to beat someone who has a ton of ravens.
It's the same thing with infestors where it makes you require more then just the right units but you also need to control your units well which is a good thing for the game.
Funny, tanks, hellions, thors, marines, all the good stuff, they are all countered by infestors. You can DODGE HSMs so easily if you have over 50 apm, not to mention dangers of missile drag. HSMs aint got nothing on Irradiate.
I like how you opened your post with Ghosts, then completely forgot about them when you concluded that the Infestor is a unit "with no weakness".
EMP the Infestors.
It's not a weakness if you force Terran to make a unit that has zero utility aside of infestors (not to mention at times you will probably need 2+ emps to drain the energy of a single infestor.).
Yeah I wish I didn't have to make banelings against marines because they're pretty useless against tanks and thors, obviously this makes marines overpowered as now I can't get 40 mutas super early
Banelings are INSANELY cost-effective against everything. They do massive amounts of damage to buildings, have amazing mobility, can be burrowed, can be dropped into mineral lines with almost no cost.
Can you say the same for a ghost?
Sure ghosts may be able to land a nuke against a retarded Zerg that doesn't get detection Sure ghosts may be able to cloak, just how many drones can a ghost kill before it gets owned by an overseer (and don't say you can snipe overseers either -_- they have absurd amounts of HP that you'd need about a 175 energy ghost to kill an overseer).
Oh, marines are also countered by:
Roaches, Infestors, Ultras, and even cracklngs that get a good surround
Yeah banelings are super cost effective against armored units my bad. And no, you're right, it's not like Ghosts have an ability which does 45 damage to every single zerg unit for 25 energy - they're not cost effective at all.
Anyhow I won't sit here and tell you how to play your race like I know better than you, I'll just tell you what every Terran and Protoss has been telling Zerg since the beta: figure it out for your own damn self. If you're not going to even consider anyones suggestions of unit compositions or strategies etc. there's no reason to give suggestions at all. Just do yourself a favour and don't lie to yourself about facts.
This is what pisses me off the most,
Zergs have NEVER figured anything out save the brainless "technique" of magic box muta vs thors. All they really did was cry for buffs and they got them.
Yeah, I agree, zergs have always complained about nerfs instead of actually figuring something out. People telling zerg to stop QQing didnt appear for no reason you know.
On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote: [quote] The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .
See, this could be done for your race as well.
Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well...
Except ghosts never actually kill anything. Ghosts's EMP is a one time deal and half your units have less than 70 shields. Fungals can be chained endlessly.
Siege tanks have 4 range extra range only if they have spotting vision. Otherwise its plus 2 range. This means your real leeway is only about 2 range.
PS. It takes 3 snipes (75 energy) to kill an infestor because of the +1 health regen.
A protoss army without shields is a dead army against an equal sized terran army.
It doesn't matter if siege tanks have 4 or 2 extra range since the damage is instant and a few siege tanks can completely deny infestors from getting in range.
If you stay one upgrade ahead of your zerg opponent you will be able to 2 shot with ghost snipes.
An EMPed protoss army can re-treat and regen its shields, a fungaled terran army can't.
Snipes and other spells don't benefit from weapon upgrades. If you don't know this, you are probably below diamond.
The extra 4 vs 2 range is a huge difference. If you don't think range matters, lets take away the roach range buff. Note that if the Terran player does have a massive number of siege tanks, Zergs can just toss infested terran cocoons into marine balls to deal damage.
Point is, infestors do far too much damage and is far too versatile. It is a unit with no weaknesses.
On April 27 2011 00:50 .Enigma. wrote:
On April 27 2011 00:42 Lafonzo wrote:
On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote: [quote] The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .
See, this could be done for your race as well.
Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well...
These units are all counter by fungul . and cost a shit load of gaz. Raven should be a good counter to these if seeker missile would be better. well infestor had just get an Hp boost anyway .At the end you can survive and manage to counter them but in my opinion you need to much of an investment to counter them. Another point is to scout them to .You see an infestation pit it doesn't mean He goes for infestor He maybe just tech up so often your taken off guard by them .
Emp don't do any damage like storm or fungul. and no terran dont have to just A moove vs Toss. You have to postion you viking,using emp, pdd,stim and spread your units in an arc to survive .
You have tanks, blue flame hellions, thors, marines with stim and all that good stuff that does your damage. You can't have EMP to do damage aswell,
You don't need too much of an investment to "counter" them, that's like saying it's too much of an investment for me to counter ravens, since the Hunter Seeker Missile counters all my units when they're in a clump which means that I need more then just the "right" unit to be able to beat someone who has a ton of ravens.
It's the same thing with infestors where it makes you require more then just the right units but you also need to control your units well which is a good thing for the game.
Funny, tanks, hellions, thors, marines, all the good stuff, they are all countered by infestors. You can DODGE HSMs so easily if you have over 50 apm, not to mention dangers of missile drag. HSMs aint got nothing on Irradiate.
I like how you opened your post with Ghosts, then completely forgot about them when you concluded that the Infestor is a unit "with no weakness".
EMP the Infestors.
It's not a weakness if you force Terran to make a unit that has zero utility aside of infestors (not to mention at times you will probably need 2+ emps to drain the energy of a single infestor.).
Griffith, I will tell you something that might makes you all wet (it made me wet).
IdrA said that he was watching BRAT_OK stream one night for some reason, and saw him produce a bunch of ghost to kill broodlord. Ghost are great against broodlord.
They have utility aside of infestors, it's just that you are not aware of it yet.
It takes 6 (150 energy) snipes to kill a broodlord. Otherwise they do peanuts for damage against blords. I don't see how that makes ghosts "amazing" against blords.
150 mana on a 150 gas unit to kill a unit that cost 250 gas, pretty cost effective I'd say.
Remember in Brood War Zerg had Queen (100g) with their 150 mana Spawn Broodling to one shot Siege Tank (100g)? This isn't any different.
Except in BW queen had ZERO utility outside of spawn broodlings on tanks, and NO ONE (barring the 3-4 ppl using it for lulz) used queens in ZvT. B- Terran.
150 energy lol, it takes 3 minutes to store up enough energy. Energy regen rate is 0.5625 energy per second. By the time your ghosts have enough energy your whole base is dead.
Where have you been during the latest MSL my BW friend?
Idra didnt say theyre not too good, he said theyre not as good as he expected. he said before the patch that it was potentially game-breaking, but now after the patch he says theyre not AS good as he was thinking, but they are still good. Just wanted to clear that up.
On April 27 2011 01:38 Griffith` wrote: This is what pisses me off the most,
Zergs have NEVER figured anything out save the brainless "technique" of magic box muta vs thors. All they really did was cry for buffs and they got them.
But with all these buffs and nerfs, ZvT is pretty damn balanced at the moment which would tell you that these changes were justified after alot of time. It took a really long time for blizzard to change most of these things because they weren't sure if it was just whines or legitimate complaints.
Terrans should atleast try to adapt since even if a change would come down the line, it would probably take a long time for it to come.
On April 27 2011 01:38 Griffith` wrote: This is what pisses me off the most,
Zergs have NEVER figured anything out save the brainless "technique" of magic box muta vs thors. All they really did was cry for buffs and they got them.
But with all these buffs and nerfs, ZvT is pretty damn balanced at the moment which would tell you that these changes were justified after alot of time. It took a really long time for blizzard to change most of these things because they weren't sure if it was just whines or legitimate complaints.
Terrans should atleast try to adapt since even if a change would come down the line, it would probably take a long time for it to come.
Am I the only zerg in the world that wants infestors nerfed just because it completely ruins ZvZ? I was finally starting to see some dynamic play and now it's just like RUSH to Infestors first one to get more then 3 wins and decimates the other person's army. I wasn't having any problems with toss deathballs, wasn't having any problem with terran, and now I hate seeing ZvZ load up so much and it used to be my favorite. Until you show me a semi-effective way to snipe out infestors in ZvZ then I will claim that they are breaking the game.
Roaches, Infestors, Ultras, and even cracklngs that get a good surround
Neither roaches, neither ultra and neither cracklings. I heard turrets are useful against burrowed units such as the infestors. Infestors are far from being op. Use emp. -_-"
The funny thing is that the infestor buff what supposed to help against mainly stalkers or other heavy units. But what it actually did is hardcountering marines, changing ZvZ a bit (buts it's mirror so who cares) and not being used against protoss. So i'm sure an other change could be done, not nerfing it but maybe reverting it back to 8seconds while buffing damage against heavy units a bit.
They're glass cannons, exactly what sc2 needed. Since Zerg is struggling they can't possibly be overpowered either and it's not as if rushing to them is a good idea. They're also support units that are useless by themselves, support units need to be powerful to make up for this weakness (templar).
EPT
