|
On April 27 2011 01:03 Griffith` wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 01:00 garlicface wrote:On April 27 2011 00:51 Griffith` wrote:On April 27 2011 00:47 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:38 Griffith` wrote:On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:14 Lafonzo wrote:
The problem with infestor as terran is they counter every thing . And to counter them You need, ghost,raven and tank . It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Zerg player just have to A move and fungal and terran to spam apm like shit to survive . The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .See, this could be done for your race as well.  Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well... Except ghosts never actually kill anything. Ghosts's EMP is a one time deal and half your units have less than 70 shields. Fungals can be chained endlessly. Siege tanks have 4 range extra range only if they have spotting vision. Otherwise its plus 2 range. This means your real leeway is only about 2 range. PS. It takes 3 snipes (75 energy) to kill an infestor because of the +1 health regen. A protoss army without shields is a dead army against an equal sized terran army. It doesn't matter if siege tanks have 4 or 2 extra range since the damage is instant and a few siege tanks can completely deny infestors from getting in range. If you stay one upgrade ahead of your zerg opponent you will be able to 2 shot with ghost snipes. An EMPed protoss army can re-treat and regen its shields, a fungaled terran army can't. Snipes and other spells don't benefit from weapon upgrades. If you don't know this, you are probably below diamond. The extra 4 vs 2 range is a huge difference. If you don't think range matters, lets take away the roach range buff. Note that if the Terran player does have a massive number of siege tanks, Zergs can just toss infested terran cocoons into marine balls to deal damage. Point is, infestors do far too much damage and is far too versatile. It is a unit with no weaknesses. On April 27 2011 00:50 .Enigma. wrote:On April 27 2011 00:42 Lafonzo wrote:On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:14 Lafonzo wrote:
The problem with infestor as terran is they counter every thing . And to counter them You need, ghost,raven and tank . It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Zerg player just have to A move and fungal and terran to spam apm like shit to survive . The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .See, this could be done for your race as well. Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well... These units are all counter by fungul . and cost a shit load of gaz. Raven should be a good counter to these if seeker missile would be better. well infestor had just get an Hp boost anyway .At the end you can survive and manage to counter them but in my opinion you need to much of an investment to counter them. Another point is to scout them to .You see an infestation pit it doesn't mean He goes for infestor He maybe just tech up so often your taken off guard by them . Emp don't do any damage like storm or fungul. and no terran dont have to just A moove vs Toss. You have to postion you viking,using emp, pdd,stim and spread your units in an arc to survive . You have tanks, blue flame hellions, thors, marines with stim and all that good stuff that does your damage. You can't have EMP to do damage aswell, You don't need too much of an investment to "counter" them, that's like saying it's too much of an investment for me to counter ravens, since the Hunter Seeker Missile counters all my units when they're in a clump which means that I need more then just the "right" unit to be able to beat someone who has a ton of ravens. It's the same thing with infestors where it makes you require more then just the right units but you also need to control your units well which is a good thing for the game. Funny, tanks, hellions, thors, marines, all the good stuff, they are all countered by infestors. You can DODGE HSMs so easily if you have over 50 apm, not to mention dangers of missile drag. HSMs aint got nothing on Irradiate. I like how you opened your post with Ghosts, then completely forgot about them when you concluded that the Infestor is a unit "with no weakness". EMP the Infestors. It's not a weakness if you force Terran to make a unit that has zero utility aside of infestors (not to mention at times you will probably need 2+ emps to drain the energy of a single infestor.).
Griffith, I will tell you something that might makes you all wet (it made me wet).
IdrA said that he was watching BRAT_OK stream one night for some reason, and saw him produce a bunch of ghost to kill broodlord. Ghost are great against broodlord.
They have utility aside of infestors, it's just that you are not aware of it yet.
|
I think they can remove gland upgrade, its as OP as amulet now 
|
I've always said that the zerg had been given storm after the fungal buff.
Really, it DOESN'T help against the deathball. All it does is make terran units die easier and turn ZvZ into roach/infestor. Although I really like the new ZvZ, on ZvT I can clearly see that, personally, it is too strong.
The reason it was buffed in the first place was to deal with the deathball, and it doesn't do that job all that well.
But having that said, I haven't met a single terran yet that got ghosts out soon enough. So maybe high diamond / mid master terran haven't caught onto the changes yet.
|
On April 27 2011 01:24 WindOw wrote:I think they can remove gland upgrade, its as OP as amulet now
You can't warp in Infestors everywhere on the map, which is what made the amulet so strong.
However, I wouldn't mind if the gland made it so that you got like 65 or so energy, it would help terrans out quite alot.
|
On April 27 2011 01:24 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 01:03 Griffith` wrote:On April 27 2011 01:00 garlicface wrote:On April 27 2011 00:51 Griffith` wrote:On April 27 2011 00:47 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:38 Griffith` wrote:On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:14 Lafonzo wrote:
The problem with infestor as terran is they counter every thing . And to counter them You need, ghost,raven and tank . It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Zerg player just have to A move and fungal and terran to spam apm like shit to survive . The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .See, this could be done for your race as well. Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well... Except ghosts never actually kill anything. Ghosts's EMP is a one time deal and half your units have less than 70 shields. Fungals can be chained endlessly. Siege tanks have 4 range extra range only if they have spotting vision. Otherwise its plus 2 range. This means your real leeway is only about 2 range. PS. It takes 3 snipes (75 energy) to kill an infestor because of the +1 health regen. A protoss army without shields is a dead army against an equal sized terran army. It doesn't matter if siege tanks have 4 or 2 extra range since the damage is instant and a few siege tanks can completely deny infestors from getting in range. If you stay one upgrade ahead of your zerg opponent you will be able to 2 shot with ghost snipes. An EMPed protoss army can re-treat and regen its shields, a fungaled terran army can't. Snipes and other spells don't benefit from weapon upgrades. If you don't know this, you are probably below diamond. The extra 4 vs 2 range is a huge difference. If you don't think range matters, lets take away the roach range buff. Note that if the Terran player does have a massive number of siege tanks, Zergs can just toss infested terran cocoons into marine balls to deal damage. Point is, infestors do far too much damage and is far too versatile. It is a unit with no weaknesses. On April 27 2011 00:50 .Enigma. wrote:On April 27 2011 00:42 Lafonzo wrote:On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:14 Lafonzo wrote:
The problem with infestor as terran is they counter every thing . And to counter them You need, ghost,raven and tank . It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Zerg player just have to A move and fungal and terran to spam apm like shit to survive . The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .See, this could be done for your race as well. Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well... These units are all counter by fungul . and cost a shit load of gaz. Raven should be a good counter to these if seeker missile would be better. well infestor had just get an Hp boost anyway .At the end you can survive and manage to counter them but in my opinion you need to much of an investment to counter them. Another point is to scout them to .You see an infestation pit it doesn't mean He goes for infestor He maybe just tech up so often your taken off guard by them . Emp don't do any damage like storm or fungul. and no terran dont have to just A moove vs Toss. You have to postion you viking,using emp, pdd,stim and spread your units in an arc to survive . You have tanks, blue flame hellions, thors, marines with stim and all that good stuff that does your damage. You can't have EMP to do damage aswell, You don't need too much of an investment to "counter" them, that's like saying it's too much of an investment for me to counter ravens, since the Hunter Seeker Missile counters all my units when they're in a clump which means that I need more then just the "right" unit to be able to beat someone who has a ton of ravens. It's the same thing with infestors where it makes you require more then just the right units but you also need to control your units well which is a good thing for the game. Funny, tanks, hellions, thors, marines, all the good stuff, they are all countered by infestors. You can DODGE HSMs so easily if you have over 50 apm, not to mention dangers of missile drag. HSMs aint got nothing on Irradiate. I like how you opened your post with Ghosts, then completely forgot about them when you concluded that the Infestor is a unit "with no weakness". EMP the Infestors. It's not a weakness if you force Terran to make a unit that has zero utility aside of infestors (not to mention at times you will probably need 2+ emps to drain the energy of a single infestor.). Griffith, I will tell you something that might makes you all wet (it made me wet). IdrA said that he was watching BRAT_OK stream one night for some reason, and saw him produce a bunch of ghost to kill broodlord. Ghost are great against broodlord. They have utility aside of infestors, it's just that you are not aware of it yet.
It takes 6 (150 energy) snipes to kill a broodlord. Otherwise they do peanuts for damage against blords. I don't see how that makes ghosts "amazing" against blords. It's extremely difficult to queue up 6 snipes per blord given the snipe mechanic. Shift-sniping is very difficult as you need to holdfire as well.
|
On April 27 2011 01:26 Griffith` wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 01:24 WhiteDog wrote:On April 27 2011 01:03 Griffith` wrote:On April 27 2011 01:00 garlicface wrote:On April 27 2011 00:51 Griffith` wrote:On April 27 2011 00:47 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:38 Griffith` wrote:On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:14 Lafonzo wrote:
The problem with infestor as terran is they counter every thing . And to counter them You need, ghost,raven and tank . It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Zerg player just have to A move and fungal and terran to spam apm like shit to survive . The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .See, this could be done for your race as well. Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well... Except ghosts never actually kill anything. Ghosts's EMP is a one time deal and half your units have less than 70 shields. Fungals can be chained endlessly. Siege tanks have 4 range extra range only if they have spotting vision. Otherwise its plus 2 range. This means your real leeway is only about 2 range. PS. It takes 3 snipes (75 energy) to kill an infestor because of the +1 health regen. A protoss army without shields is a dead army against an equal sized terran army. It doesn't matter if siege tanks have 4 or 2 extra range since the damage is instant and a few siege tanks can completely deny infestors from getting in range. If you stay one upgrade ahead of your zerg opponent you will be able to 2 shot with ghost snipes. An EMPed protoss army can re-treat and regen its shields, a fungaled terran army can't. Snipes and other spells don't benefit from weapon upgrades. If you don't know this, you are probably below diamond. The extra 4 vs 2 range is a huge difference. If you don't think range matters, lets take away the roach range buff. Note that if the Terran player does have a massive number of siege tanks, Zergs can just toss infested terran cocoons into marine balls to deal damage. Point is, infestors do far too much damage and is far too versatile. It is a unit with no weaknesses. On April 27 2011 00:50 .Enigma. wrote:On April 27 2011 00:42 Lafonzo wrote:On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:14 Lafonzo wrote:
The problem with infestor as terran is they counter every thing . And to counter them You need, ghost,raven and tank . It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Zerg player just have to A move and fungal and terran to spam apm like shit to survive . The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .See, this could be done for your race as well. Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well... These units are all counter by fungul . and cost a shit load of gaz. Raven should be a good counter to these if seeker missile would be better. well infestor had just get an Hp boost anyway .At the end you can survive and manage to counter them but in my opinion you need to much of an investment to counter them. Another point is to scout them to .You see an infestation pit it doesn't mean He goes for infestor He maybe just tech up so often your taken off guard by them . Emp don't do any damage like storm or fungul. and no terran dont have to just A moove vs Toss. You have to postion you viking,using emp, pdd,stim and spread your units in an arc to survive . You have tanks, blue flame hellions, thors, marines with stim and all that good stuff that does your damage. You can't have EMP to do damage aswell, You don't need too much of an investment to "counter" them, that's like saying it's too much of an investment for me to counter ravens, since the Hunter Seeker Missile counters all my units when they're in a clump which means that I need more then just the "right" unit to be able to beat someone who has a ton of ravens. It's the same thing with infestors where it makes you require more then just the right units but you also need to control your units well which is a good thing for the game. Funny, tanks, hellions, thors, marines, all the good stuff, they are all countered by infestors. You can DODGE HSMs so easily if you have over 50 apm, not to mention dangers of missile drag. HSMs aint got nothing on Irradiate. I like how you opened your post with Ghosts, then completely forgot about them when you concluded that the Infestor is a unit "with no weakness". EMP the Infestors. It's not a weakness if you force Terran to make a unit that has zero utility aside of infestors (not to mention at times you will probably need 2+ emps to drain the energy of a single infestor.). Griffith, I will tell you something that might makes you all wet (it made me wet). IdrA said that he was watching BRAT_OK stream one night for some reason, and saw him produce a bunch of ghost to kill broodlord. Ghost are great against broodlord. They have utility aside of infestors, it's just that you are not aware of it yet. It takes 6 (150 energy) snipes to kill a broodlord. Otherwise they do peanuts for damage against blords. I don't see how that makes ghosts "amazing" against blords.
You can kill brood lords super fast, that's pretty good.
|
terrans will adopt their play to include ghost in their play to snipe/emp infestors, spread marines, dodge fungals etc.
|
On April 27 2011 01:26 Griffith` wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 01:24 WhiteDog wrote:On April 27 2011 01:03 Griffith` wrote:On April 27 2011 01:00 garlicface wrote:On April 27 2011 00:51 Griffith` wrote:On April 27 2011 00:47 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:38 Griffith` wrote:On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:14 Lafonzo wrote:
The problem with infestor as terran is they counter every thing . And to counter them You need, ghost,raven and tank . It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Zerg player just have to A move and fungal and terran to spam apm like shit to survive . The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .See, this could be done for your race as well. Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well... Except ghosts never actually kill anything. Ghosts's EMP is a one time deal and half your units have less than 70 shields. Fungals can be chained endlessly. Siege tanks have 4 range extra range only if they have spotting vision. Otherwise its plus 2 range. This means your real leeway is only about 2 range. PS. It takes 3 snipes (75 energy) to kill an infestor because of the +1 health regen. A protoss army without shields is a dead army against an equal sized terran army. It doesn't matter if siege tanks have 4 or 2 extra range since the damage is instant and a few siege tanks can completely deny infestors from getting in range. If you stay one upgrade ahead of your zerg opponent you will be able to 2 shot with ghost snipes. An EMPed protoss army can re-treat and regen its shields, a fungaled terran army can't. Snipes and other spells don't benefit from weapon upgrades. If you don't know this, you are probably below diamond. The extra 4 vs 2 range is a huge difference. If you don't think range matters, lets take away the roach range buff. Note that if the Terran player does have a massive number of siege tanks, Zergs can just toss infested terran cocoons into marine balls to deal damage. Point is, infestors do far too much damage and is far too versatile. It is a unit with no weaknesses. On April 27 2011 00:50 .Enigma. wrote:On April 27 2011 00:42 Lafonzo wrote:On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:14 Lafonzo wrote:
The problem with infestor as terran is they counter every thing . And to counter them You need, ghost,raven and tank . It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Zerg player just have to A move and fungal and terran to spam apm like shit to survive . The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .See, this could be done for your race as well. Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well... These units are all counter by fungul . and cost a shit load of gaz. Raven should be a good counter to these if seeker missile would be better. well infestor had just get an Hp boost anyway .At the end you can survive and manage to counter them but in my opinion you need to much of an investment to counter them. Another point is to scout them to .You see an infestation pit it doesn't mean He goes for infestor He maybe just tech up so often your taken off guard by them . Emp don't do any damage like storm or fungul. and no terran dont have to just A moove vs Toss. You have to postion you viking,using emp, pdd,stim and spread your units in an arc to survive . You have tanks, blue flame hellions, thors, marines with stim and all that good stuff that does your damage. You can't have EMP to do damage aswell, You don't need too much of an investment to "counter" them, that's like saying it's too much of an investment for me to counter ravens, since the Hunter Seeker Missile counters all my units when they're in a clump which means that I need more then just the "right" unit to be able to beat someone who has a ton of ravens. It's the same thing with infestors where it makes you require more then just the right units but you also need to control your units well which is a good thing for the game. Funny, tanks, hellions, thors, marines, all the good stuff, they are all countered by infestors. You can DODGE HSMs so easily if you have over 50 apm, not to mention dangers of missile drag. HSMs aint got nothing on Irradiate. I like how you opened your post with Ghosts, then completely forgot about them when you concluded that the Infestor is a unit "with no weakness". EMP the Infestors. It's not a weakness if you force Terran to make a unit that has zero utility aside of infestors (not to mention at times you will probably need 2+ emps to drain the energy of a single infestor.). Griffith, I will tell you something that might makes you all wet (it made me wet). IdrA said that he was watching BRAT_OK stream one night for some reason, and saw him produce a bunch of ghost to kill broodlord. Ghost are great against broodlord. They have utility aside of infestors, it's just that you are not aware of it yet. It takes 6 (150 energy) snipes to kill a broodlord. Otherwise they do peanuts for damage against blords. I don't see how that makes ghosts "amazing" against blords.
150 mana on a 150 gas unit to kill a unit that cost 250 gas, pretty cost effective I'd say.
Remember in Brood War Zerg had Queen (100g) with their 150 mana Spawn Broodling to one shot Siege Tank (100g)? This isn't any different.
|
On April 27 2011 00:05 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 23:22 Arkless wrote:On April 26 2011 23:11 WhiteDog wrote:On April 26 2011 23:07 toadyy wrote:
Ling Infestor is borderline broken in ZvT and ZvP, high level zergs for some reason don't even consider Infestors they play Roach Hydra the whole game and wonder why they lose. In ZvT Infestor counters every Terran unit in the game, impossible to counter unless zerg herp derps and 1 control groups his infestors with his main army. 1: Wrong 2: That's because you don't have the level they have so you don't know. 3:Sure infestor counter tanks... ho wait! He is actually fairly correct. Fungals are far to strong vs bio. And burrow'd infestor infested marine drops on tank line add to their current strength. With the recent gas nerf on ghosts next patch though I think it will even it out. As of right now though..... its kind of rediculous. Going ghosts in tvz is so very far away and so very gas intesive you basically need to commit two gysers to constantly produce 1 ghost. leaving you tank and thorless more or less. No he is wrong, infestor are not broken in ZvP, high level zerg are not idiots that "wonder why they lose". In ZvT infestor don't counter tanks. Period, you have nothing else to add. Just don't bio, or play better / split them / advance slowly with your tank line. Go ghost when you have 6+ gaz geyser ?
Infestors destroy tank lines, if you spread they can pick one off with neural or if some are grouped they can just throw shit at them from underground. Infestors hard counter marine tank which is the only viable option terran has to deal with the ling/bling the zerg is throwing at you also. Then when broodlords come out you just have to hit one of 100 fungals on a viking group and you kill all of them. Why fungal needs insane dps and a root is beyond me it's worse than storm.
|
Infestor + T3 is pretty strong, but the fact you're relying on good fungals to be able to actually use these units effectively may point to bigger problems with these late game compositions. I mean, ultralisks in most situations are just painfully bad, fungals at least make them somewhat bearable to use, and even then its quite sketchy and I still wouldn't do it unless I am obviously ahead.
|
On April 27 2011 01:17 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 01:16 Arkless wrote:On April 27 2011 00:54 WhiteDog wrote:On April 27 2011 00:45 Arkless wrote:On April 27 2011 00:05 WhiteDog wrote:On April 26 2011 23:22 Arkless wrote:On April 26 2011 23:11 WhiteDog wrote:On April 26 2011 23:07 toadyy wrote:
Ling Infestor is borderline broken in ZvT and ZvP, high level zergs for some reason don't even consider Infestors they play Roach Hydra the whole game and wonder why they lose. In ZvT Infestor counters every Terran unit in the game, impossible to counter unless zerg herp derps and 1 control groups his infestors with his main army. 1: Wrong 2: That's because you don't have the level they have so you don't know. 3:Sure infestor counter tanks... ho wait! He is actually fairly correct. Fungals are far to strong vs bio. And burrow'd infestor infested marine drops on tank line add to their current strength. With the recent gas nerf on ghosts next patch though I think it will even it out. As of right now though..... its kind of rediculous. Going ghosts in tvz is so very far away and so very gas intesive you basically need to commit two gysers to constantly produce 1 ghost. leaving you tank and thorless more or less. No he is wrong, infestor are not broken in ZvP, high level zerg are not idiots that "wonder why they lose". In ZvT infestor don't counter tanks. Period, you have nothing else to add. Just don't bio, or play better / split them / advance slowly with your tank line. Go ghost when you have 6+ gaz geyser ? Don't tell me what I do and don't have. Your elitist attitude is not needed. I never said terran should be able to get ghosts tanks and thors, but ghosts are a very weak subsitute at the moment between the threee because of time/gas spent/survivability. Please leave your comments to yourself when you have nothing to contribute but an attitude where you think you are better. When you are probably/almost definatly not. And your attitude alone shows such. Aren't you the one that show a bad attitude saying all the zerg pro lose but don't know why ? Basically you are saying they are idiots.
Pre patch, the counter to infestor play was to just build fast 2 fact and pump out tank. Then you would advance slowly toward the zerg base and not forget to let your marine behind tanks because infestor are armored and have 80 hp so they get killed in 2 shots. Overall, without muta, it's really hard to survive a terran marine tank heavy push on two bases (and by tank heavy, i mean 2 fact pump out tanks). That's why I just go muta first and then switch on infestor: it feels more safe against any kind of tank heavy play. I think most of the zerg pro actually do the same, I have yet to see a zerg star going for infestor play and not making any muta before on map such as meta or xelnaga ( of course things are different on bigger maps like tal darim). I just don't understand terran player that says "infestor counter all terran units", because the tank just counter infestor ? Why not trying to advance slowly ? I never said anything remotely like that. Please don't put words in my mouth. i quote you again Show nested quote +high level zergs for some reason don't even consider Infestors they play Roach Hydra the whole game and wonder why they lose How is that not mocking the zerg players ? I wonder.
LOL, that was someone else in the thread man. Not me, l2read
On April 26 2011 23:07 toadyy wrote:
Ling Infestor is borderline broken in ZvT and ZvP, high level zergs for some reason don't even consider Infestors they play Roach Hydra the whole game and wonder why they lose. In ZvT Infestor counters every Terran unit in the game, impossible to counter unless zerg herp derps and 1 control groups his infestors with his main army.
and just so you can facepalm again
On April 26 2011 23:07 toadyy wrote:
I wrote
+ Show Spoiler +He is actually fairly correct. Fungals are far to strong vs bio. And burrow'd infestor infested marine drops on tank line add to their current strength. With the recent gas nerf on ghosts next patch though I think it will even it out. As of right now though..... its kind of rediculous. Going ghosts in tvz is so very far away and so very gas intesive you basically need to commit two gysers to constantly produce 1 ghost. leaving you tank and thorless more or less.
and
+ Show Spoiler +Don't tell me what I do and don't have. Your elitist attitude is not needed. I never said terran should be able to get ghosts tanks and thors, but ghosts are a very weak subsitute at the moment between the threee because of time/gas spent/survivability. Please leave your comments to yourself when you have nothing to contribute but an attitude where you think you are better. When you are probably/almost definatly not. And your attitude alone shows such.
GG
|
On April 27 2011 01:29 toadyy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 00:05 WhiteDog wrote:On April 26 2011 23:22 Arkless wrote:On April 26 2011 23:11 WhiteDog wrote:On April 26 2011 23:07 toadyy wrote:
Ling Infestor is borderline broken in ZvT and ZvP, high level zergs for some reason don't even consider Infestors they play Roach Hydra the whole game and wonder why they lose. In ZvT Infestor counters every Terran unit in the game, impossible to counter unless zerg herp derps and 1 control groups his infestors with his main army. 1: Wrong 2: That's because you don't have the level they have so you don't know. 3:Sure infestor counter tanks... ho wait! He is actually fairly correct. Fungals are far to strong vs bio. And burrow'd infestor infested marine drops on tank line add to their current strength. With the recent gas nerf on ghosts next patch though I think it will even it out. As of right now though..... its kind of rediculous. Going ghosts in tvz is so very far away and so very gas intesive you basically need to commit two gysers to constantly produce 1 ghost. leaving you tank and thorless more or less. No he is wrong, infestor are not broken in ZvP, high level zerg are not idiots that "wonder why they lose". In ZvT infestor don't counter tanks. Period, you have nothing else to add. Just don't bio, or play better / split them / advance slowly with your tank line. Go ghost when you have 6+ gaz geyser ? Infestors destroy tank lines, if you spread they can pick one off with neural or if some are grouped they can just throw shit at them from underground. Infestors hard counter marine tank which is the only viable option terran has to deal with the ling/bling the zerg is throwing at you also. Then when broodlords come out you just have to hit one of 100 fungals on a viking group and you kill all of them. Why fungal needs insane dps and a root is beyond me it's worse than storm.
Maybe your whole tank line wouldn't get decimated if you put up ONE turret next them, perhaps?
Infestors don't hard counter Marine / Tank, that's just an insane statement.
|
infestors are not OP.... been trying out mass infestor with sling and spines but it is still very difficult to hold off collossus and mech in general.
|
On April 27 2011 01:26 Griffith` wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 01:24 WhiteDog wrote:On April 27 2011 01:03 Griffith` wrote:On April 27 2011 01:00 garlicface wrote:On April 27 2011 00:51 Griffith` wrote:On April 27 2011 00:47 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:38 Griffith` wrote:On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:14 Lafonzo wrote:
The problem with infestor as terran is they counter every thing . And to counter them You need, ghost,raven and tank . It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Zerg player just have to A move and fungal and terran to spam apm like shit to survive . The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .See, this could be done for your race as well. Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well... Except ghosts never actually kill anything. Ghosts's EMP is a one time deal and half your units have less than 70 shields. Fungals can be chained endlessly. Siege tanks have 4 range extra range only if they have spotting vision. Otherwise its plus 2 range. This means your real leeway is only about 2 range. PS. It takes 3 snipes (75 energy) to kill an infestor because of the +1 health regen. A protoss army without shields is a dead army against an equal sized terran army. It doesn't matter if siege tanks have 4 or 2 extra range since the damage is instant and a few siege tanks can completely deny infestors from getting in range. If you stay one upgrade ahead of your zerg opponent you will be able to 2 shot with ghost snipes. An EMPed protoss army can re-treat and regen its shields, a fungaled terran army can't. Snipes and other spells don't benefit from weapon upgrades. If you don't know this, you are probably below diamond. The extra 4 vs 2 range is a huge difference. If you don't think range matters, lets take away the roach range buff. Note that if the Terran player does have a massive number of siege tanks, Zergs can just toss infested terran cocoons into marine balls to deal damage. Point is, infestors do far too much damage and is far too versatile. It is a unit with no weaknesses. On April 27 2011 00:50 .Enigma. wrote:On April 27 2011 00:42 Lafonzo wrote:On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:14 Lafonzo wrote:
The problem with infestor as terran is they counter every thing . And to counter them You need, ghost,raven and tank . It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Zerg player just have to A move and fungal and terran to spam apm like shit to survive . The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .See, this could be done for your race as well. Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well... These units are all counter by fungul . and cost a shit load of gaz. Raven should be a good counter to these if seeker missile would be better. well infestor had just get an Hp boost anyway .At the end you can survive and manage to counter them but in my opinion you need to much of an investment to counter them. Another point is to scout them to .You see an infestation pit it doesn't mean He goes for infestor He maybe just tech up so often your taken off guard by them . Emp don't do any damage like storm or fungul. and no terran dont have to just A moove vs Toss. You have to postion you viking,using emp, pdd,stim and spread your units in an arc to survive . You have tanks, blue flame hellions, thors, marines with stim and all that good stuff that does your damage. You can't have EMP to do damage aswell, You don't need too much of an investment to "counter" them, that's like saying it's too much of an investment for me to counter ravens, since the Hunter Seeker Missile counters all my units when they're in a clump which means that I need more then just the "right" unit to be able to beat someone who has a ton of ravens. It's the same thing with infestors where it makes you require more then just the right units but you also need to control your units well which is a good thing for the game. Funny, tanks, hellions, thors, marines, all the good stuff, they are all countered by infestors. You can DODGE HSMs so easily if you have over 50 apm, not to mention dangers of missile drag. HSMs aint got nothing on Irradiate. I like how you opened your post with Ghosts, then completely forgot about them when you concluded that the Infestor is a unit "with no weakness". EMP the Infestors. It's not a weakness if you force Terran to make a unit that has zero utility aside of infestors (not to mention at times you will probably need 2+ emps to drain the energy of a single infestor.). Griffith, I will tell you something that might makes you all wet (it made me wet). IdrA said that he was watching BRAT_OK stream one night for some reason, and saw him produce a bunch of ghost to kill broodlord. Ghost are great against broodlord. They have utility aside of infestors, it's just that you are not aware of it yet. It takes 6 (150 energy) snipes to kill a broodlord. Otherwise they do peanuts for damage against blords. I don't see how that makes ghosts "amazing" against blords.
By your logic:
It takes 2 (150 energy) fungals to kill a marine. Otherwise infestors do zero damage against marines. I don't see how that makes infestors "amazing" against marines.
|
I preferred the old infestors in ZvT tbh. They were way better at stalling armies to buy you time to get more supply, and were far stronger against drops since you could fungal medivac and then pull an infested terran or two.
It's really just the fact that people actually USE them now and players don't know how to deal with it.
Great in ZvP though ^^
|
On April 27 2011 01:29 ppdealer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 01:26 Griffith` wrote:On April 27 2011 01:24 WhiteDog wrote:On April 27 2011 01:03 Griffith` wrote:On April 27 2011 01:00 garlicface wrote:On April 27 2011 00:51 Griffith` wrote:On April 27 2011 00:47 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:38 Griffith` wrote:On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:14 Lafonzo wrote:
The problem with infestor as terran is they counter every thing . And to counter them You need, ghost,raven and tank . It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Zerg player just have to A move and fungal and terran to spam apm like shit to survive . The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .See, this could be done for your race as well. Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well... Except ghosts never actually kill anything. Ghosts's EMP is a one time deal and half your units have less than 70 shields. Fungals can be chained endlessly. Siege tanks have 4 range extra range only if they have spotting vision. Otherwise its plus 2 range. This means your real leeway is only about 2 range. PS. It takes 3 snipes (75 energy) to kill an infestor because of the +1 health regen. A protoss army without shields is a dead army against an equal sized terran army. It doesn't matter if siege tanks have 4 or 2 extra range since the damage is instant and a few siege tanks can completely deny infestors from getting in range. If you stay one upgrade ahead of your zerg opponent you will be able to 2 shot with ghost snipes. An EMPed protoss army can re-treat and regen its shields, a fungaled terran army can't. Snipes and other spells don't benefit from weapon upgrades. If you don't know this, you are probably below diamond. The extra 4 vs 2 range is a huge difference. If you don't think range matters, lets take away the roach range buff. Note that if the Terran player does have a massive number of siege tanks, Zergs can just toss infested terran cocoons into marine balls to deal damage. Point is, infestors do far too much damage and is far too versatile. It is a unit with no weaknesses. On April 27 2011 00:50 .Enigma. wrote:On April 27 2011 00:42 Lafonzo wrote:On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:14 Lafonzo wrote:
The problem with infestor as terran is they counter every thing . And to counter them You need, ghost,raven and tank . It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Zerg player just have to A move and fungal and terran to spam apm like shit to survive . The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .See, this could be done for your race as well. Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well... These units are all counter by fungul . and cost a shit load of gaz. Raven should be a good counter to these if seeker missile would be better. well infestor had just get an Hp boost anyway .At the end you can survive and manage to counter them but in my opinion you need to much of an investment to counter them. Another point is to scout them to .You see an infestation pit it doesn't mean He goes for infestor He maybe just tech up so often your taken off guard by them . Emp don't do any damage like storm or fungul. and no terran dont have to just A moove vs Toss. You have to postion you viking,using emp, pdd,stim and spread your units in an arc to survive . You have tanks, blue flame hellions, thors, marines with stim and all that good stuff that does your damage. You can't have EMP to do damage aswell, You don't need too much of an investment to "counter" them, that's like saying it's too much of an investment for me to counter ravens, since the Hunter Seeker Missile counters all my units when they're in a clump which means that I need more then just the "right" unit to be able to beat someone who has a ton of ravens. It's the same thing with infestors where it makes you require more then just the right units but you also need to control your units well which is a good thing for the game. Funny, tanks, hellions, thors, marines, all the good stuff, they are all countered by infestors. You can DODGE HSMs so easily if you have over 50 apm, not to mention dangers of missile drag. HSMs aint got nothing on Irradiate. I like how you opened your post with Ghosts, then completely forgot about them when you concluded that the Infestor is a unit "with no weakness". EMP the Infestors. It's not a weakness if you force Terran to make a unit that has zero utility aside of infestors (not to mention at times you will probably need 2+ emps to drain the energy of a single infestor.). Griffith, I will tell you something that might makes you all wet (it made me wet). IdrA said that he was watching BRAT_OK stream one night for some reason, and saw him produce a bunch of ghost to kill broodlord. Ghost are great against broodlord. They have utility aside of infestors, it's just that you are not aware of it yet. It takes 6 (150 energy) snipes to kill a broodlord. Otherwise they do peanuts for damage against blords. I don't see how that makes ghosts "amazing" against blords. 150 mana on a 150 gas unit to kill a unit that cost 250 gas, pretty cost effective I'd say. Remember in Brood War Zerg had Queen (100g) with their 150 mana Spawn Broodling to one shot Siege Tank (100g)? This isn't any different.
Except in BW queen had ZERO utility outside of spawn broodlings on tanks, and NO ONE (barring the 3-4 ppl using it for lulz) used queens in ZvT. B- Terran.
150 energy lol, it takes 3 minutes to store up enough energy. Energy regen rate is 0.5625 energy per second. By the time your ghosts have enough energy your whole base is dead.
|
On April 27 2011 01:32 poor newb wrote:
it takes infestor 150 energy to kill a marine, i guess infestor are pretty weak then
If you go around fungaling single marines, then yeah.
|
On April 27 2011 01:19 Griffith` wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 01:13 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On April 27 2011 01:03 Griffith` wrote:On April 27 2011 01:00 garlicface wrote:On April 27 2011 00:51 Griffith` wrote:On April 27 2011 00:47 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:38 Griffith` wrote:On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:14 Lafonzo wrote:
The problem with infestor as terran is they counter every thing . And to counter them You need, ghost,raven and tank . It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Zerg player just have to A move and fungal and terran to spam apm like shit to survive . The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .See, this could be done for your race as well. Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well... Except ghosts never actually kill anything. Ghosts's EMP is a one time deal and half your units have less than 70 shields. Fungals can be chained endlessly. Siege tanks have 4 range extra range only if they have spotting vision. Otherwise its plus 2 range. This means your real leeway is only about 2 range. PS. It takes 3 snipes (75 energy) to kill an infestor because of the +1 health regen. A protoss army without shields is a dead army against an equal sized terran army. It doesn't matter if siege tanks have 4 or 2 extra range since the damage is instant and a few siege tanks can completely deny infestors from getting in range. If you stay one upgrade ahead of your zerg opponent you will be able to 2 shot with ghost snipes. An EMPed protoss army can re-treat and regen its shields, a fungaled terran army can't. Snipes and other spells don't benefit from weapon upgrades. If you don't know this, you are probably below diamond. The extra 4 vs 2 range is a huge difference. If you don't think range matters, lets take away the roach range buff. Note that if the Terran player does have a massive number of siege tanks, Zergs can just toss infested terran cocoons into marine balls to deal damage. Point is, infestors do far too much damage and is far too versatile. It is a unit with no weaknesses. On April 27 2011 00:50 .Enigma. wrote:On April 27 2011 00:42 Lafonzo wrote:On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:14 Lafonzo wrote:
The problem with infestor as terran is they counter every thing . And to counter them You need, ghost,raven and tank . It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Zerg player just have to A move and fungal and terran to spam apm like shit to survive . The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .See, this could be done for your race as well. Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well... These units are all counter by fungul . and cost a shit load of gaz. Raven should be a good counter to these if seeker missile would be better. well infestor had just get an Hp boost anyway .At the end you can survive and manage to counter them but in my opinion you need to much of an investment to counter them. Another point is to scout them to .You see an infestation pit it doesn't mean He goes for infestor He maybe just tech up so often your taken off guard by them . Emp don't do any damage like storm or fungul. and no terran dont have to just A moove vs Toss. You have to postion you viking,using emp, pdd,stim and spread your units in an arc to survive . You have tanks, blue flame hellions, thors, marines with stim and all that good stuff that does your damage. You can't have EMP to do damage aswell, You don't need too much of an investment to "counter" them, that's like saying it's too much of an investment for me to counter ravens, since the Hunter Seeker Missile counters all my units when they're in a clump which means that I need more then just the "right" unit to be able to beat someone who has a ton of ravens. It's the same thing with infestors where it makes you require more then just the right units but you also need to control your units well which is a good thing for the game. Funny, tanks, hellions, thors, marines, all the good stuff, they are all countered by infestors. You can DODGE HSMs so easily if you have over 50 apm, not to mention dangers of missile drag. HSMs aint got nothing on Irradiate. I like how you opened your post with Ghosts, then completely forgot about them when you concluded that the Infestor is a unit "with no weakness". EMP the Infestors. It's not a weakness if you force Terran to make a unit that has zero utility aside of infestors (not to mention at times you will probably need 2+ emps to drain the energy of a single infestor.). Yeah I wish I didn't have to make banelings against marines because they're pretty useless against tanks and thors, obviously this makes marines overpowered as now I can't get 40 mutas super early  Banelings are INSANELY cost-effective against everything. They do massive amounts of damage to buildings, have amazing mobility, can be burrowed, can be dropped into mineral lines with almost no cost. Can you say the same for a ghost? Sure ghosts may be able to land a nuke against a retarded Zerg that doesn't get detection Sure ghosts may be able to cloak, just how many drones can a ghost kill before it gets owned by an overseer (and don't say you can snipe overseers either -_- they have absurd amounts of HP that you'd need about a 175 energy ghost to kill an overseer). Oh, marines are also countered by: Roaches, Infestors, Ultras, and even cracklngs that get a good surround
Yeah banelings are super cost effective against armored units my bad. And no, you're right, it's not like Ghosts have an ability which does 45 damage to every single zerg unit for 25 energy - they're not cost effective at all.
Anyhow I won't sit here and tell you how to play your race like I know better than you, I'll just tell you what every Terran and Protoss has been telling Zerg since the beta: figure it out for your own damn self. If you're not going to even consider anyones suggestions of unit compositions or strategies etc. there's no reason to give suggestions at all. Just do yourself a favour and don't lie to yourself about facts.
|
On April 27 2011 01:26 Griffith` wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 01:24 WhiteDog wrote:On April 27 2011 01:03 Griffith` wrote:On April 27 2011 01:00 garlicface wrote:On April 27 2011 00:51 Griffith` wrote:On April 27 2011 00:47 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:38 Griffith` wrote:On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:14 Lafonzo wrote:
The problem with infestor as terran is they counter every thing . And to counter them You need, ghost,raven and tank . It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Zerg player just have to A move and fungal and terran to spam apm like shit to survive . The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .See, this could be done for your race as well. Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well... Except ghosts never actually kill anything. Ghosts's EMP is a one time deal and half your units have less than 70 shields. Fungals can be chained endlessly. Siege tanks have 4 range extra range only if they have spotting vision. Otherwise its plus 2 range. This means your real leeway is only about 2 range. PS. It takes 3 snipes (75 energy) to kill an infestor because of the +1 health regen. A protoss army without shields is a dead army against an equal sized terran army. It doesn't matter if siege tanks have 4 or 2 extra range since the damage is instant and a few siege tanks can completely deny infestors from getting in range. If you stay one upgrade ahead of your zerg opponent you will be able to 2 shot with ghost snipes. An EMPed protoss army can re-treat and regen its shields, a fungaled terran army can't. Snipes and other spells don't benefit from weapon upgrades. If you don't know this, you are probably below diamond. The extra 4 vs 2 range is a huge difference. If you don't think range matters, lets take away the roach range buff. Note that if the Terran player does have a massive number of siege tanks, Zergs can just toss infested terran cocoons into marine balls to deal damage. Point is, infestors do far too much damage and is far too versatile. It is a unit with no weaknesses. On April 27 2011 00:50 .Enigma. wrote:On April 27 2011 00:42 Lafonzo wrote:On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:14 Lafonzo wrote:
The problem with infestor as terran is they counter every thing . And to counter them You need, ghost,raven and tank . It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Zerg player just have to A move and fungal and terran to spam apm like shit to survive . The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .See, this could be done for your race as well. Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well... These units are all counter by fungul . and cost a shit load of gaz. Raven should be a good counter to these if seeker missile would be better. well infestor had just get an Hp boost anyway .At the end you can survive and manage to counter them but in my opinion you need to much of an investment to counter them. Another point is to scout them to .You see an infestation pit it doesn't mean He goes for infestor He maybe just tech up so often your taken off guard by them . Emp don't do any damage like storm or fungul. and no terran dont have to just A moove vs Toss. You have to postion you viking,using emp, pdd,stim and spread your units in an arc to survive . You have tanks, blue flame hellions, thors, marines with stim and all that good stuff that does your damage. You can't have EMP to do damage aswell, You don't need too much of an investment to "counter" them, that's like saying it's too much of an investment for me to counter ravens, since the Hunter Seeker Missile counters all my units when they're in a clump which means that I need more then just the "right" unit to be able to beat someone who has a ton of ravens. It's the same thing with infestors where it makes you require more then just the right units but you also need to control your units well which is a good thing for the game. Funny, tanks, hellions, thors, marines, all the good stuff, they are all countered by infestors. You can DODGE HSMs so easily if you have over 50 apm, not to mention dangers of missile drag. HSMs aint got nothing on Irradiate. I like how you opened your post with Ghosts, then completely forgot about them when you concluded that the Infestor is a unit "with no weakness". EMP the Infestors. It's not a weakness if you force Terran to make a unit that has zero utility aside of infestors (not to mention at times you will probably need 2+ emps to drain the energy of a single infestor.). Griffith, I will tell you something that might makes you all wet (it made me wet). IdrA said that he was watching BRAT_OK stream one night for some reason, and saw him produce a bunch of ghost to kill broodlord. Ghost are great against broodlord. They have utility aside of infestors, it's just that you are not aware of it yet. It takes 6 (150 energy) snipes to kill a broodlord. Otherwise they do peanuts for damage against blords. I don't see how that makes ghosts "amazing" against blords. It's extremely difficult to queue up 6 snipes per blord given the snipe mechanic. Shift-sniping is very difficult as you need to holdfire as well.
Yeah they really ought to fix the snipe mechanic tbh, it makes snipe much worse than it should be just because of how stupidly hard it is to get a proper shift-queue.
|
I think your arguments are from the perspective of a Zerg player and, therefore, strongly zerg biased.
Your entire post is riddled with strawmen that you subsequently tear down because... you know.. they're strawmen... that's how they work. It's really horrible logic.
The biggest problem with Infestors right now, is that once you land a fungal growth, you prevent your opponent from doing anything with those units, for as long as you have energy. It's this limiting of micro coupled with an absurd amount of guaranteed damage that is too strong.
The Infestor should be powerful spell caster used to support the rest of the zerg army. As it stands, it is used AS the Zerg army while zergling / baneling / roach have become the support units.
Imagine if a Protoss came charging at you with 12 high templars, and 10 zealots. You wouldn't be too intimidated. Or if a Terran came running into your natural with 12 ghosts (lol) and 20 marines. You'd clean up either of those forces pretty easily. AND THERES NO WAY FOR THEM TO RETREAT.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
