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As a Z player, I think a lot of the T frustrations here are pretty justified...
Infestors have pretty ridiculous synergy with Zerg T3: BL + infestor + queens for transfuse (or whatever ground army you have) is absurdly strong, as is ultra + infestor.
ZvP, on the other hand, I'm not so sure that the infestor is working well enough. I haven't had a ton of success with fungaling the deathball--then again, my control isn't great, so NFI.
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On April 27 2011 00:07 Griffith` wrote:
Biggest problem with infestors is not so much the unit by itself, but rather the INSANE synergy it has with all late game zerg units.
TvZ:
infestor + blord = death
infestor + ultra = death
There is absolutely nothing that can counter the above combinations. (Masters Terran)
I agree with this. Particularly the Infestor + BL. Making a lot of Ghosts, especially if they become cheaper, might be the way to go, though.
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On April 27 2011 00:59 Holliday wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 23:11 WhiteDog wrote:On April 26 2011 23:07 toadyy wrote:
Ling Infestor is borderline broken in ZvT and ZvP, high level zergs for some reason don't even consider Infestors they play Roach Hydra the whole game and wonder why they lose. In ZvT Infestor counters every Terran unit in the game, impossible to counter unless zerg herp derps and 1 control groups his infestors with his main army. 1: Wrong 2: That's because you don't have the level they have so you don't know. 3:Sure infestor counter tanks... ho wait! I hate the way yoou say number three. No they dont counter tanks, no because counter is the wrong word. they are good, because if you spawn INFESTED TERRANS on them, they cant hit them, and get splashed by other tanks. so in a way they rock against tanks.
Yeah I can agree with that but there is a lot of ways to counter it:
- Scan as soon as you see an infested terran popping out
- bring VCS with you to repair, because 2-3 tank shot on a close infested terran will not kill your tanks
- Find the right timing attack so that the infestor count is low, in a way that every infested terran casted is one less fungal to worry about.
If you are talking about end game, then I think at this point in the game if you don't have enough ghost it's just too late. Ghost kill broodlord quite good.
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On April 27 2011 01:03 Griffith` wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 01:00 garlicface wrote:On April 27 2011 00:51 Griffith` wrote:On April 27 2011 00:47 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:38 Griffith` wrote:On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:14 Lafonzo wrote:
The problem with infestor as terran is they counter every thing . And to counter them You need, ghost,raven and tank . It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Zerg player just have to A move and fungal and terran to spam apm like shit to survive . The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .See, this could be done for your race as well.  Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well... Except ghosts never actually kill anything. Ghosts's EMP is a one time deal and half your units have less than 70 shields. Fungals can be chained endlessly. Siege tanks have 4 range extra range only if they have spotting vision. Otherwise its plus 2 range. This means your real leeway is only about 2 range. PS. It takes 3 snipes (75 energy) to kill an infestor because of the +1 health regen. A protoss army without shields is a dead army against an equal sized terran army. It doesn't matter if siege tanks have 4 or 2 extra range since the damage is instant and a few siege tanks can completely deny infestors from getting in range. If you stay one upgrade ahead of your zerg opponent you will be able to 2 shot with ghost snipes. An EMPed protoss army can re-treat and regen its shields, a fungaled terran army can't. Snipes and other spells don't benefit from weapon upgrades. If you don't know this, you are probably below diamond. The extra 4 vs 2 range is a huge difference. If you don't think range matters, lets take away the roach range buff. Note that if the Terran player does have a massive number of siege tanks, Zergs can just toss infested terran cocoons into marine balls to deal damage. Point is, infestors do far too much damage and is far too versatile. It is a unit with no weaknesses. On April 27 2011 00:50 .Enigma. wrote:On April 27 2011 00:42 Lafonzo wrote:On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:14 Lafonzo wrote:
The problem with infestor as terran is they counter every thing . And to counter them You need, ghost,raven and tank . It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Zerg player just have to A move and fungal and terran to spam apm like shit to survive . The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .See, this could be done for your race as well. Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well... These units are all counter by fungul . and cost a shit load of gaz. Raven should be a good counter to these if seeker missile would be better. well infestor had just get an Hp boost anyway .At the end you can survive and manage to counter them but in my opinion you need to much of an investment to counter them. Another point is to scout them to .You see an infestation pit it doesn't mean He goes for infestor He maybe just tech up so often your taken off guard by them . Emp don't do any damage like storm or fungul. and no terran dont have to just A moove vs Toss. You have to postion you viking,using emp, pdd,stim and spread your units in an arc to survive . You have tanks, blue flame hellions, thors, marines with stim and all that good stuff that does your damage. You can't have EMP to do damage aswell, You don't need too much of an investment to "counter" them, that's like saying it's too much of an investment for me to counter ravens, since the Hunter Seeker Missile counters all my units when they're in a clump which means that I need more then just the "right" unit to be able to beat someone who has a ton of ravens. It's the same thing with infestors where it makes you require more then just the right units but you also need to control your units well which is a good thing for the game. Funny, tanks, hellions, thors, marines, all the good stuff, they are all countered by infestors. You can DODGE HSMs so easily if you have over 50 apm, not to mention dangers of missile drag. HSMs aint got nothing on Irradiate. I like how you opened your post with Ghosts, then completely forgot about them when you concluded that the Infestor is a unit "with no weakness". EMP the Infestors. It's not a weakness if you force Terran to make a unit that has zero utility aside of infestors (not to mention at times you will probably need 2+ emps to drain the energy of a single infestor.).
If the infestor has enough energy that he requires 2 emps, why don't you have enough energy to emp twice?
And why does every Terran player refuse to acknowledge the utility of snipe? Hitting pretty much anything except a Zergling with snipe is a win.
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You have tanks, blue flame hellions, thors, marines with stim and all that good stuff that does your damage. You can't have EMP to do damage aswell,
You don't need too much of an investment to "counter" them, that's like saying it's too much of an investment for me to counter ravens, since the Hunter Seeker Missile counters all my units when they're in a clump which means that I need more then just the "right" unit to be able to beat someone who has a ton of ravens.
I don't ask to make emp damageable . I'm just sayin they dont do any damage instead of infestor and HT . dont tell my what terran units has . I can tell you all the good one that Protoss have too .
The point with infestor is are to much of an investment to counter them with units heavy in gaz. Mech are not an alternative with 30 % more damageable . Infestor ling is really cheap vs all the thing I have to buy . and later in in the game infestor brood lord is GG .
I'm pretty happy that zerg has an alternative and a good caster . But what it's pissing me off It's blizzard made change to the detriment of the other races. Why in hell the infestor buff it was to help Zerg vs Protoss but everybody knew that it would be better Vs Terran and Blizzard haven't take in consideration this .
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Re-fungals are extremely gross. Storm was powerful, but you could at least retreat out of it taking moderate damage in the process. Fungal is a slightly weaker storm but without the possibility of retreat, so it inevitably ends up doing even more damage. Not to mention infestors are actually FAST on creep and can burrow. They only need to fungal twice in about 3 seconds under the cover of lings to have an entire MM ball dead.
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On April 27 2011 01:06 Jermstuddog wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 01:03 Griffith` wrote:On April 27 2011 01:00 garlicface wrote:On April 27 2011 00:51 Griffith` wrote:On April 27 2011 00:47 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:38 Griffith` wrote:On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:14 Lafonzo wrote:
The problem with infestor as terran is they counter every thing . And to counter them You need, ghost,raven and tank . It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Zerg player just have to A move and fungal and terran to spam apm like shit to survive . The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .See, this could be done for your race as well. Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well... Except ghosts never actually kill anything. Ghosts's EMP is a one time deal and half your units have less than 70 shields. Fungals can be chained endlessly. Siege tanks have 4 range extra range only if they have spotting vision. Otherwise its plus 2 range. This means your real leeway is only about 2 range. PS. It takes 3 snipes (75 energy) to kill an infestor because of the +1 health regen. A protoss army without shields is a dead army against an equal sized terran army. It doesn't matter if siege tanks have 4 or 2 extra range since the damage is instant and a few siege tanks can completely deny infestors from getting in range. If you stay one upgrade ahead of your zerg opponent you will be able to 2 shot with ghost snipes. An EMPed protoss army can re-treat and regen its shields, a fungaled terran army can't. Snipes and other spells don't benefit from weapon upgrades. If you don't know this, you are probably below diamond. The extra 4 vs 2 range is a huge difference. If you don't think range matters, lets take away the roach range buff. Note that if the Terran player does have a massive number of siege tanks, Zergs can just toss infested terran cocoons into marine balls to deal damage. Point is, infestors do far too much damage and is far too versatile. It is a unit with no weaknesses. On April 27 2011 00:50 .Enigma. wrote:On April 27 2011 00:42 Lafonzo wrote:On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:14 Lafonzo wrote:
The problem with infestor as terran is they counter every thing . And to counter them You need, ghost,raven and tank . It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Zerg player just have to A move and fungal and terran to spam apm like shit to survive . The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .See, this could be done for your race as well. Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well... These units are all counter by fungul . and cost a shit load of gaz. Raven should be a good counter to these if seeker missile would be better. well infestor had just get an Hp boost anyway .At the end you can survive and manage to counter them but in my opinion you need to much of an investment to counter them. Another point is to scout them to .You see an infestation pit it doesn't mean He goes for infestor He maybe just tech up so often your taken off guard by them . Emp don't do any damage like storm or fungul. and no terran dont have to just A moove vs Toss. You have to postion you viking,using emp, pdd,stim and spread your units in an arc to survive . You have tanks, blue flame hellions, thors, marines with stim and all that good stuff that does your damage. You can't have EMP to do damage aswell, You don't need too much of an investment to "counter" them, that's like saying it's too much of an investment for me to counter ravens, since the Hunter Seeker Missile counters all my units when they're in a clump which means that I need more then just the "right" unit to be able to beat someone who has a ton of ravens. It's the same thing with infestors where it makes you require more then just the right units but you also need to control your units well which is a good thing for the game. Funny, tanks, hellions, thors, marines, all the good stuff, they are all countered by infestors. You can DODGE HSMs so easily if you have over 50 apm, not to mention dangers of missile drag. HSMs aint got nothing on Irradiate. I like how you opened your post with Ghosts, then completely forgot about them when you concluded that the Infestor is a unit "with no weakness". EMP the Infestors. It's not a weakness if you force Terran to make a unit that has zero utility aside of infestors (not to mention at times you will probably need 2+ emps to drain the energy of a single infestor.). If the infestor has enough energy that he requires 2 emps, why don't you have enough energy to emp twice? And why does every Terran player refuse to acknowledge the utility of snipe? Hitting pretty much anything except a Zergling with snipe is a win.
Don't forget that 1 Ghost can hit 6 Infestors with 1 EMP, so 2 Ghosts can double-EMP them for half the Gas investment (After 1.3.3 even 1/3 of the Gas)
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On April 27 2011 00:51 Griffith` wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 00:47 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:38 Griffith` wrote:On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:14 Lafonzo wrote:
The problem with infestor as terran is they counter every thing . And to counter them You need, ghost,raven and tank . It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Zerg player just have to A move and fungal and terran to spam apm like shit to survive . The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .See, this could be done for your race as well. Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well... Except ghosts never actually kill anything. Ghosts's EMP is a one time deal and half your units have less than 70 shields. Fungals can be chained endlessly. Siege tanks have 4 range extra range only if they have spotting vision. Otherwise its plus 2 range. This means your real leeway is only about 2 range. PS. It takes 3 snipes (75 energy) to kill an infestor because of the +1 health regen. A protoss army without shields is a dead army against an equal sized terran army. It doesn't matter if siege tanks have 4 or 2 extra range since the damage is instant and a few siege tanks can completely deny infestors from getting in range. If you stay one upgrade ahead of your zerg opponent you will be able to 2 shot with ghost snipes. An EMPed protoss army can re-treat and regen its shields, a fungaled terran army can't. Snipes and other spells don't benefit from weapon upgrades. If you don't know this, you are probably below diamond. The extra 4 vs 2 range is a huge difference. If you don't think range matters, lets take away the roach range buff. Note that if the Terran player does have a massive number of siege tanks, Zergs can just toss infested terran cocoons into marine balls to deal damage. Point is, infestors do far too much damage and is far too versatile. It is a unit with no weaknesses. Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 00:50 .Enigma. wrote:On April 27 2011 00:42 Lafonzo wrote:On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:14 Lafonzo wrote:
The problem with infestor as terran is they counter every thing . And to counter them You need, ghost,raven and tank . It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Zerg player just have to A move and fungal and terran to spam apm like shit to survive . The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .See, this could be done for your race as well. Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well... These units are all counter by fungul . and cost a shit load of gaz. Raven should be a good counter to these if seeker missile would be better. well infestor had just get an Hp boost anyway .At the end you can survive and manage to counter them but in my opinion you need to much of an investment to counter them. Another point is to scout them to .You see an infestation pit it doesn't mean He goes for infestor He maybe just tech up so often your taken off guard by them . Emp don't do any damage like storm or fungul. and no terran dont have to just A moove vs Toss. You have to postion you viking,using emp, pdd,stim and spread your units in an arc to survive . You have tanks, blue flame hellions, thors, marines with stim and all that good stuff that does your damage. You can't have EMP to do damage aswell, You don't need too much of an investment to "counter" them, that's like saying it's too much of an investment for me to counter ravens, since the Hunter Seeker Missile counters all my units when they're in a clump which means that I need more then just the "right" unit to be able to beat someone who has a ton of ravens. It's the same thing with infestors where it makes you require more then just the right units but you also need to control your units well which is a good thing for the game. Funny, tanks, hellions, thors, marines, all the good stuff, they are all countered by infestors. You can DODGE HSMs so easily if you have over 50 apm, not to mention dangers of missile drag. HSMs aint got nothing on Irradiate.
Funny, infestors are countered by Tanks, hellions, thors, marines if you just control them properly. perhaps scan ahead so that you don't get shocked if your clumped up marines are fungaled.
Don't just think of units to use for counters, there are other ways.
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On April 27 2011 01:03 Griffith` wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 01:00 garlicface wrote:On April 27 2011 00:51 Griffith` wrote:On April 27 2011 00:47 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:38 Griffith` wrote:On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:14 Lafonzo wrote:
The problem with infestor as terran is they counter every thing . And to counter them You need, ghost,raven and tank . It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Zerg player just have to A move and fungal and terran to spam apm like shit to survive . The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .See, this could be done for your race as well. Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well... Except ghosts never actually kill anything. Ghosts's EMP is a one time deal and half your units have less than 70 shields. Fungals can be chained endlessly. Siege tanks have 4 range extra range only if they have spotting vision. Otherwise its plus 2 range. This means your real leeway is only about 2 range. PS. It takes 3 snipes (75 energy) to kill an infestor because of the +1 health regen. A protoss army without shields is a dead army against an equal sized terran army. It doesn't matter if siege tanks have 4 or 2 extra range since the damage is instant and a few siege tanks can completely deny infestors from getting in range. If you stay one upgrade ahead of your zerg opponent you will be able to 2 shot with ghost snipes. An EMPed protoss army can re-treat and regen its shields, a fungaled terran army can't. Snipes and other spells don't benefit from weapon upgrades. If you don't know this, you are probably below diamond. The extra 4 vs 2 range is a huge difference. If you don't think range matters, lets take away the roach range buff. Note that if the Terran player does have a massive number of siege tanks, Zergs can just toss infested terran cocoons into marine balls to deal damage. Point is, infestors do far too much damage and is far too versatile. It is a unit with no weaknesses. On April 27 2011 00:50 .Enigma. wrote:On April 27 2011 00:42 Lafonzo wrote:On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:14 Lafonzo wrote:
The problem with infestor as terran is they counter every thing . And to counter them You need, ghost,raven and tank . It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Zerg player just have to A move and fungal and terran to spam apm like shit to survive . The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .See, this could be done for your race as well. Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well... These units are all counter by fungul . and cost a shit load of gaz. Raven should be a good counter to these if seeker missile would be better. well infestor had just get an Hp boost anyway .At the end you can survive and manage to counter them but in my opinion you need to much of an investment to counter them. Another point is to scout them to .You see an infestation pit it doesn't mean He goes for infestor He maybe just tech up so often your taken off guard by them . Emp don't do any damage like storm or fungul. and no terran dont have to just A moove vs Toss. You have to postion you viking,using emp, pdd,stim and spread your units in an arc to survive . You have tanks, blue flame hellions, thors, marines with stim and all that good stuff that does your damage. You can't have EMP to do damage aswell, You don't need too much of an investment to "counter" them, that's like saying it's too much of an investment for me to counter ravens, since the Hunter Seeker Missile counters all my units when they're in a clump which means that I need more then just the "right" unit to be able to beat someone who has a ton of ravens. It's the same thing with infestors where it makes you require more then just the right units but you also need to control your units well which is a good thing for the game. Funny, tanks, hellions, thors, marines, all the good stuff, they are all countered by infestors. You can DODGE HSMs so easily if you have over 50 apm, not to mention dangers of missile drag. HSMs aint got nothing on Irradiate. I like how you opened your post with Ghosts, then completely forgot about them when you concluded that the Infestor is a unit "with no weakness". EMP the Infestors. It's not a weakness if you force Terran to make a unit that has zero utility aside of infestors (not to mention at times you will probably need 2+ emps to drain the energy of a single infestor.).
Yeah I wish I didn't have to make banelings against marines because they're pretty useless against tanks and thors, obviously this makes marines overpowered as now I can't get 40 mutas super early 
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On April 27 2011 01:12 Morfildur wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 01:06 Jermstuddog wrote:On April 27 2011 01:03 Griffith` wrote:On April 27 2011 01:00 garlicface wrote:On April 27 2011 00:51 Griffith` wrote:On April 27 2011 00:47 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:38 Griffith` wrote:On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:14 Lafonzo wrote:
The problem with infestor as terran is they counter every thing . And to counter them You need, ghost,raven and tank . It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Zerg player just have to A move and fungal and terran to spam apm like shit to survive . The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .See, this could be done for your race as well. Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well... Except ghosts never actually kill anything. Ghosts's EMP is a one time deal and half your units have less than 70 shields. Fungals can be chained endlessly. Siege tanks have 4 range extra range only if they have spotting vision. Otherwise its plus 2 range. This means your real leeway is only about 2 range. PS. It takes 3 snipes (75 energy) to kill an infestor because of the +1 health regen. A protoss army without shields is a dead army against an equal sized terran army. It doesn't matter if siege tanks have 4 or 2 extra range since the damage is instant and a few siege tanks can completely deny infestors from getting in range. If you stay one upgrade ahead of your zerg opponent you will be able to 2 shot with ghost snipes. An EMPed protoss army can re-treat and regen its shields, a fungaled terran army can't. Snipes and other spells don't benefit from weapon upgrades. If you don't know this, you are probably below diamond. The extra 4 vs 2 range is a huge difference. If you don't think range matters, lets take away the roach range buff. Note that if the Terran player does have a massive number of siege tanks, Zergs can just toss infested terran cocoons into marine balls to deal damage. Point is, infestors do far too much damage and is far too versatile. It is a unit with no weaknesses. On April 27 2011 00:50 .Enigma. wrote:On April 27 2011 00:42 Lafonzo wrote:On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:14 Lafonzo wrote:
The problem with infestor as terran is they counter every thing . And to counter them You need, ghost,raven and tank . It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Zerg player just have to A move and fungal and terran to spam apm like shit to survive . The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .See, this could be done for your race as well. Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well... These units are all counter by fungul . and cost a shit load of gaz. Raven should be a good counter to these if seeker missile would be better. well infestor had just get an Hp boost anyway .At the end you can survive and manage to counter them but in my opinion you need to much of an investment to counter them. Another point is to scout them to .You see an infestation pit it doesn't mean He goes for infestor He maybe just tech up so often your taken off guard by them . Emp don't do any damage like storm or fungul. and no terran dont have to just A moove vs Toss. You have to postion you viking,using emp, pdd,stim and spread your units in an arc to survive . You have tanks, blue flame hellions, thors, marines with stim and all that good stuff that does your damage. You can't have EMP to do damage aswell, You don't need too much of an investment to "counter" them, that's like saying it's too much of an investment for me to counter ravens, since the Hunter Seeker Missile counters all my units when they're in a clump which means that I need more then just the "right" unit to be able to beat someone who has a ton of ravens. It's the same thing with infestors where it makes you require more then just the right units but you also need to control your units well which is a good thing for the game. Funny, tanks, hellions, thors, marines, all the good stuff, they are all countered by infestors. You can DODGE HSMs so easily if you have over 50 apm, not to mention dangers of missile drag. HSMs aint got nothing on Irradiate. I like how you opened your post with Ghosts, then completely forgot about them when you concluded that the Infestor is a unit "with no weakness". EMP the Infestors. It's not a weakness if you force Terran to make a unit that has zero utility aside of infestors (not to mention at times you will probably need 2+ emps to drain the energy of a single infestor.). If the infestor has enough energy that he requires 2 emps, why don't you have enough energy to emp twice? And why does every Terran player refuse to acknowledge the utility of snipe? Hitting pretty much anything except a Zergling with snipe is a win. Don't forget that 1 Ghost can hit 6 Infestors with 1 EMP, so 2 Ghosts can double-EMP them for half the Gas investment (After 1.3.3 even 1/3 of the Gas)
If the terran should be splitting his marines/hellions/marauders/everything, the zerg should also be splitting his infestors, if 1 ghost is hitting 6 infestors that is the zergs fault
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The thing is, I think ZvT is Zerg favored, but I think this has been the case for some time now.
But if you look at it, it's really not infestor that make the difference: they completly destroy bio if it is not well used, and is still pretty good against a bad tank control (if the tank are in a big ball for exemple).
But it's more about the entire match up that is hard for Terran, and infestor is not really the problem in my point of view. They are not overpowered at all, just know how to use tank well, know when to pop out ghost.
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On April 27 2011 00:07 Griffith` wrote:
infestor + blord = death
infestor + ultra = death
There is absolutely nothing that can counter the above combinations. (Masters Terran)
Sounds like the problem Zergs have against turtling protosses who mass up a huge Colossus / Voidray army that is very, very hard to deal with.
Don't let them get to that place.
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On April 27 2011 00:54 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 00:45 Arkless wrote:On April 27 2011 00:05 WhiteDog wrote:On April 26 2011 23:22 Arkless wrote:On April 26 2011 23:11 WhiteDog wrote:On April 26 2011 23:07 toadyy wrote:
Ling Infestor is borderline broken in ZvT and ZvP, high level zergs for some reason don't even consider Infestors they play Roach Hydra the whole game and wonder why they lose. In ZvT Infestor counters every Terran unit in the game, impossible to counter unless zerg herp derps and 1 control groups his infestors with his main army. 1: Wrong 2: That's because you don't have the level they have so you don't know. 3:Sure infestor counter tanks... ho wait! He is actually fairly correct. Fungals are far to strong vs bio. And burrow'd infestor infested marine drops on tank line add to their current strength. With the recent gas nerf on ghosts next patch though I think it will even it out. As of right now though..... its kind of rediculous. Going ghosts in tvz is so very far away and so very gas intesive you basically need to commit two gysers to constantly produce 1 ghost. leaving you tank and thorless more or less. No he is wrong, infestor are not broken in ZvP, high level zerg are not idiots that "wonder why they lose". In ZvT infestor don't counter tanks. Period, you have nothing else to add. Just don't bio, or play better / split them / advance slowly with your tank line. Go ghost when you have 6+ gaz geyser ? Don't tell me what I do and don't have. Your elitist attitude is not needed. I never said terran should be able to get ghosts tanks and thors, but ghosts are a very weak subsitute at the moment between the threee because of time/gas spent/survivability. Please leave your comments to yourself when you have nothing to contribute but an attitude where you think you are better. When you are probably/almost definatly not. And your attitude alone shows such. Aren't you the one that show a bad attitude saying all the zerg pro lose but don't know why ? Basically you are saying they are idiots.
Pre patch, the counter to infestor play was to just build fast 2 fact and pump out tank. Then you would advance slowly toward the zerg base and not forget to let your marine behind tanks because infestor are armored and have 80 hp so they get killed in 2 shots. Overall, without muta, it's really hard to survive a terran marine tank heavy push on two bases (and by tank heavy, i mean 2 fact pump out tanks). That's why I just go muta first and then switch on infestor: it feels more safe against any kind of tank heavy play. I think most of the zerg pro actually do the same, I have yet to see a zerg star going for infestor play and not making any muta before on map such as meta or xelnaga ( of course things are different on bigger maps like tal darim). I just don't understand terran player that says "infestor counter all terran units", because the tank just counter infestor ? Why not trying to advance slowly ?
I never said anything remotely like that. Please don't put words in my mouth.
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[/QUOTE]
Funny, infestors are countered by Tanks, hellions, thors, marines if you just control them properly. perhaps scan ahead so that you don't get shocked if your clumped up marines are fungaled.
Don't just think of units to use for counters, there are other ways.
[/QUOTE]
infestors are not countered by any of the units you mentioned unless you do not control your infestors properly... last time i checked fungal has greater range than marines/hellions rendering them completely useless even with tanks behind them
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On April 27 2011 01:03 Griffith` wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 01:00 garlicface wrote:On April 27 2011 00:51 Griffith` wrote:On April 27 2011 00:47 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:38 Griffith` wrote:On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:14 Lafonzo wrote:
The problem with infestor as terran is they counter every thing . And to counter them You need, ghost,raven and tank . It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Zerg player just have to A move and fungal and terran to spam apm like shit to survive . The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .See, this could be done for your race as well. Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well... Except ghosts never actually kill anything. Ghosts's EMP is a one time deal and half your units have less than 70 shields. Fungals can be chained endlessly. Siege tanks have 4 range extra range only if they have spotting vision. Otherwise its plus 2 range. This means your real leeway is only about 2 range. PS. It takes 3 snipes (75 energy) to kill an infestor because of the +1 health regen. A protoss army without shields is a dead army against an equal sized terran army. It doesn't matter if siege tanks have 4 or 2 extra range since the damage is instant and a few siege tanks can completely deny infestors from getting in range. If you stay one upgrade ahead of your zerg opponent you will be able to 2 shot with ghost snipes. An EMPed protoss army can re-treat and regen its shields, a fungaled terran army can't. Snipes and other spells don't benefit from weapon upgrades. If you don't know this, you are probably below diamond. The extra 4 vs 2 range is a huge difference. If you don't think range matters, lets take away the roach range buff. Note that if the Terran player does have a massive number of siege tanks, Zergs can just toss infested terran cocoons into marine balls to deal damage. Point is, infestors do far too much damage and is far too versatile. It is a unit with no weaknesses. On April 27 2011 00:50 .Enigma. wrote:On April 27 2011 00:42 Lafonzo wrote:On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:14 Lafonzo wrote:
The problem with infestor as terran is they counter every thing . And to counter them You need, ghost,raven and tank . It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Zerg player just have to A move and fungal and terran to spam apm like shit to survive . The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .See, this could be done for your race as well. Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well... These units are all counter by fungul . and cost a shit load of gaz. Raven should be a good counter to these if seeker missile would be better. well infestor had just get an Hp boost anyway .At the end you can survive and manage to counter them but in my opinion you need to much of an investment to counter them. Another point is to scout them to .You see an infestation pit it doesn't mean He goes for infestor He maybe just tech up so often your taken off guard by them . Emp don't do any damage like storm or fungul. and no terran dont have to just A moove vs Toss. You have to postion you viking,using emp, pdd,stim and spread your units in an arc to survive . You have tanks, blue flame hellions, thors, marines with stim and all that good stuff that does your damage. You can't have EMP to do damage aswell, You don't need too much of an investment to "counter" them, that's like saying it's too much of an investment for me to counter ravens, since the Hunter Seeker Missile counters all my units when they're in a clump which means that I need more then just the "right" unit to be able to beat someone who has a ton of ravens. It's the same thing with infestors where it makes you require more then just the right units but you also need to control your units well which is a good thing for the game. Funny, tanks, hellions, thors, marines, all the good stuff, they are all countered by infestors. You can DODGE HSMs so easily if you have over 50 apm, not to mention dangers of missile drag. HSMs aint got nothing on Irradiate. I like how you opened your post with Ghosts, then completely forgot about them when you concluded that the Infestor is a unit "with no weakness". EMP the Infestors. It's not a weakness if you force Terran to make a unit that has zero utility aside of infestors (not to mention at times you will probably need 2+ emps to drain the energy of a single infestor.).
seriously, i may sound like a troll here and might get banned, but it's so supersweet to hear T / P players complaining they have to specifically REACT to something the zerg does.
90 % of Zerg game play is finding out how to react best to all the shenanigans of Protoss and Terrans.
If it is nerfed or not in the future, i enjoy the tears of the unwilling-to-adapt, used to all around units like marine / stalker, Protoss and Terran players, until then  .
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On April 27 2011 01:16 Arkless wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 00:54 WhiteDog wrote:On April 27 2011 00:45 Arkless wrote:On April 27 2011 00:05 WhiteDog wrote:On April 26 2011 23:22 Arkless wrote:On April 26 2011 23:11 WhiteDog wrote:On April 26 2011 23:07 toadyy wrote:
Ling Infestor is borderline broken in ZvT and ZvP, high level zergs for some reason don't even consider Infestors they play Roach Hydra the whole game and wonder why they lose. In ZvT Infestor counters every Terran unit in the game, impossible to counter unless zerg herp derps and 1 control groups his infestors with his main army. 1: Wrong 2: That's because you don't have the level they have so you don't know. 3:Sure infestor counter tanks... ho wait! He is actually fairly correct. Fungals are far to strong vs bio. And burrow'd infestor infested marine drops on tank line add to their current strength. With the recent gas nerf on ghosts next patch though I think it will even it out. As of right now though..... its kind of rediculous. Going ghosts in tvz is so very far away and so very gas intesive you basically need to commit two gysers to constantly produce 1 ghost. leaving you tank and thorless more or less. No he is wrong, infestor are not broken in ZvP, high level zerg are not idiots that "wonder why they lose". In ZvT infestor don't counter tanks. Period, you have nothing else to add. Just don't bio, or play better / split them / advance slowly with your tank line. Go ghost when you have 6+ gaz geyser ? Don't tell me what I do and don't have. Your elitist attitude is not needed. I never said terran should be able to get ghosts tanks and thors, but ghosts are a very weak subsitute at the moment between the threee because of time/gas spent/survivability. Please leave your comments to yourself when you have nothing to contribute but an attitude where you think you are better. When you are probably/almost definatly not. And your attitude alone shows such. Aren't you the one that show a bad attitude saying all the zerg pro lose but don't know why ? Basically you are saying they are idiots.
Pre patch, the counter to infestor play was to just build fast 2 fact and pump out tank. Then you would advance slowly toward the zerg base and not forget to let your marine behind tanks because infestor are armored and have 80 hp so they get killed in 2 shots. Overall, without muta, it's really hard to survive a terran marine tank heavy push on two bases (and by tank heavy, i mean 2 fact pump out tanks). That's why I just go muta first and then switch on infestor: it feels more safe against any kind of tank heavy play. I think most of the zerg pro actually do the same, I have yet to see a zerg star going for infestor play and not making any muta before on map such as meta or xelnaga ( of course things are different on bigger maps like tal darim). I just don't understand terran player that says "infestor counter all terran units", because the tank just counter infestor ? Why not trying to advance slowly ? I never said anything remotely like that. Please don't put words in my mouth.
i quote you again
high level zergs for some reason don't even consider Infestors they play Roach Hydra the whole game and wonder why they lose
How is that not mocking the zerg players ? I wonder.
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On April 27 2011 01:13 MonsieurGrimm wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 01:03 Griffith` wrote:On April 27 2011 01:00 garlicface wrote:On April 27 2011 00:51 Griffith` wrote:On April 27 2011 00:47 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:38 Griffith` wrote:On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:14 Lafonzo wrote:
The problem with infestor as terran is they counter every thing . And to counter them You need, ghost,raven and tank . It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Zerg player just have to A move and fungal and terran to spam apm like shit to survive . The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .See, this could be done for your race as well. Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well... Except ghosts never actually kill anything. Ghosts's EMP is a one time deal and half your units have less than 70 shields. Fungals can be chained endlessly. Siege tanks have 4 range extra range only if they have spotting vision. Otherwise its plus 2 range. This means your real leeway is only about 2 range. PS. It takes 3 snipes (75 energy) to kill an infestor because of the +1 health regen. A protoss army without shields is a dead army against an equal sized terran army. It doesn't matter if siege tanks have 4 or 2 extra range since the damage is instant and a few siege tanks can completely deny infestors from getting in range. If you stay one upgrade ahead of your zerg opponent you will be able to 2 shot with ghost snipes. An EMPed protoss army can re-treat and regen its shields, a fungaled terran army can't. Snipes and other spells don't benefit from weapon upgrades. If you don't know this, you are probably below diamond. The extra 4 vs 2 range is a huge difference. If you don't think range matters, lets take away the roach range buff. Note that if the Terran player does have a massive number of siege tanks, Zergs can just toss infested terran cocoons into marine balls to deal damage. Point is, infestors do far too much damage and is far too versatile. It is a unit with no weaknesses. On April 27 2011 00:50 .Enigma. wrote:On April 27 2011 00:42 Lafonzo wrote:On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:14 Lafonzo wrote:
The problem with infestor as terran is they counter every thing . And to counter them You need, ghost,raven and tank . It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Zerg player just have to A move and fungal and terran to spam apm like shit to survive . The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .See, this could be done for your race as well. Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well... These units are all counter by fungul . and cost a shit load of gaz. Raven should be a good counter to these if seeker missile would be better. well infestor had just get an Hp boost anyway .At the end you can survive and manage to counter them but in my opinion you need to much of an investment to counter them. Another point is to scout them to .You see an infestation pit it doesn't mean He goes for infestor He maybe just tech up so often your taken off guard by them . Emp don't do any damage like storm or fungul. and no terran dont have to just A moove vs Toss. You have to postion you viking,using emp, pdd,stim and spread your units in an arc to survive . You have tanks, blue flame hellions, thors, marines with stim and all that good stuff that does your damage. You can't have EMP to do damage aswell, You don't need too much of an investment to "counter" them, that's like saying it's too much of an investment for me to counter ravens, since the Hunter Seeker Missile counters all my units when they're in a clump which means that I need more then just the "right" unit to be able to beat someone who has a ton of ravens. It's the same thing with infestors where it makes you require more then just the right units but you also need to control your units well which is a good thing for the game. Funny, tanks, hellions, thors, marines, all the good stuff, they are all countered by infestors. You can DODGE HSMs so easily if you have over 50 apm, not to mention dangers of missile drag. HSMs aint got nothing on Irradiate. I like how you opened your post with Ghosts, then completely forgot about them when you concluded that the Infestor is a unit "with no weakness". EMP the Infestors. It's not a weakness if you force Terran to make a unit that has zero utility aside of infestors (not to mention at times you will probably need 2+ emps to drain the energy of a single infestor.). Yeah I wish I didn't have to make banelings against marines because they're pretty useless against tanks and thors, obviously this makes marines overpowered as now I can't get 40 mutas super early
Banelings are INSANELY cost-effective against everything. They do massive amounts of damage to buildings, have amazing mobility, can be burrowed, can be dropped into mineral lines with almost no cost.
Can you say the same for a ghost?
Sure ghosts may be able to land a nuke against a retarded Zerg that doesn't get detection
Sure ghosts may be able to cloak, just how many drones can a ghost kill before it gets owned by an overseer (and don't say you can snipe overseers either -_- they have absurd amounts of HP that you'd need about a 175 energy ghost to kill an overseer).
Oh, marines are also countered by:
Roaches,
Infestors,
Ultras,
and even cracklngs that get a good surround
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You can always EMP them or feedback. That they're strong doesn't mean its not ok.
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On April 27 2011 01:16 lahey wrote:
infestors are not countered by any of the units you mentioned unless you do not control your infestors properly... last time i checked fungal has greater range than marines/hellions rendering them completely useless even with tanks behind them
Don't run in with 20 marines in a clump to pick off infestors, run with small groups of fast units so that even if they get fungaled, it's worth it for you.
Also, drop play is very good against infestors since they are so slow.
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On April 27 2011 01:19 .Enigma. wrote:Funny, infestors are countered by Tanks, hellions, thors, marines if you just control them properly. perhaps scan ahead so that you don't get shocked if your clumped up marines are fungaled. Don't just think of units to use for counters, there are other ways.
infestors are not countered by any of the units you mentioned unless you do not control your infestors properly... last time i checked fungal has greater range than marines/hellions rendering them completely useless even with tanks behind them[/QUOTE]
Don't run in with 20 marines in a clump to pick off infestors, run with small groups of fast units so that even if they get fungaled, it's worth it for you.
Also, drop play is very good against infestors since they are so slow.[/QUOTE]
this is implying that the zerg is playing w/ 1 control group, if the zerg is smart they can just leave 1 infestor at main or other expands and fungal the drop and wait for speedlings to clean it up considering the drop won't be moving/alive if it gets fungaled twice
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EPT
