|
Blizzard thought storm was overpowered, they were right, now they've given zerg a storm you can't run out of... combine that with no research required, extreme mobility (infestors are super fast, have burrow movement by default, creep bonus, etc...) A tier 2 unit (infestors are 2t, like mutas) should not be able to kill 25 upgraded t1 units with t2 support, without taking some sort of loss, you literally cannot attack a zerg that has infestors and is awake, they'll fungal the marines the instant they try to advance, and then the terran army is dead, if you try to go mech vs infestors, fungal the hellions, neural the thors, gg. If you go ghosts vs infestors, fungal to remove cloack, neural, emp the other ghosts or snipe something to kill the energy. If there was a way for terrans to combat fungal growth, then it might be balanced, but right now the only way to combat fungal growth is to just hope they clump their infestors and let u emp them, which is rare and relies completely on a bad opponent, you might as well ask them to attack move all their drones into your siege line, it's something you can't control. The new ghost change will kinda help improve TvZ, but TvP is a whole different thing, as terran doesn't have any late game gas dump AOE damage, ghosts were the closest thing we had to AOE, now that they're no longer a gas dump, when terran is getting mined out we're screwed and very inefficient. If infestors were immobile like siege tanks, then sure, I'd be fine with the buff, but if you have a unit that's as fast as a roach, costs just 100/150, 2 food, and can kill 25 marines in 4 seconds and then always be able to retreat? well then u have an unkillable unit that completely shuts down every form of direct attack terran has, as well as being able to shut down almost all forms of harass (aside from mb a thor drop). Hopefully blizzard makes fungal growth a projectile, and/or slowly wear off (the slow effect at least). This would make it possible for terrans to actually combat it (protoss have HTs and feedback, they should not be complaining about fungal growth... and come on, collosus are still imba 0.o).
Once your units have been fungaled, you can't do shit about it, you just say to yourself "Well, I better kill the infestors faster next time."
Storm is still too powerful, as is feedback, but at least you can do something about it when storm lands on your army.... And u can kill the retreating HT even if you lose all your units to the storm (most of the time at least). With infestors, you can never kill them unless they're all out of energy at the same time, which is very unlikely due to the timings of energy regen combined with spawn larvae, they should be on a nice little round robin cycle)
|
On April 27 2011 00:05 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 23:22 Arkless wrote:On April 26 2011 23:11 WhiteDog wrote:On April 26 2011 23:07 toadyy wrote:
Ling Infestor is borderline broken in ZvT and ZvP, high level zergs for some reason don't even consider Infestors they play Roach Hydra the whole game and wonder why they lose. In ZvT Infestor counters every Terran unit in the game, impossible to counter unless zerg herp derps and 1 control groups his infestors with his main army. 1: Wrong 2: That's because you don't have the level they have so you don't know. 3:Sure infestor counter tanks... ho wait! He is actually fairly correct. Fungals are far to strong vs bio. And burrow'd infestor infested marine drops on tank line add to their current strength. With the recent gas nerf on ghosts next patch though I think it will even it out. As of right now though..... its kind of rediculous. Going ghosts in tvz is so very far away and so very gas intesive you basically need to commit two gysers to constantly produce 1 ghost. leaving you tank and thorless more or less. No he is wrong, infestor are not broken in ZvP, high level zerg are not idiots that "wonder why they lose". In ZvT infestor don't counter tanks. Period, you have nothing else to add. Just don't bio, or play better / split them / advance slowly with your tank line. Go ghost when you have 6+ gaz geyser ?
Don't tell me what I do and don't have. Your elitist attitude is not needed. I never said terran should be able to get ghosts tanks and thors, but ghosts are a very weak subsitute at the moment between the threee because of time/gas spent/survivability. Please leave your comments to yourself when you have nothing to contribute but an attitude where you think you are better. When you are probably/almost definatly not. And your attitude alone shows such.
|
Good post, I agree with you. Infesters are so flimsy if they have tanks or collosi you sack your infestor for a fungal. It's a heavy cost so the damage SHOULD be high.
Terrans seem to think fungal has a huge range and the lock is long. if you have tanks, my infesters will die if your marines aren't playing around far from your tank position. Fungal doesn't kill marines without medicavs so they certainly don't if you do have them. Are you saying marines should be able to push out with 0 opposition...come on.
|
On April 27 2011 00:38 Griffith` wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:14 Lafonzo wrote:
The problem with infestor as terran is they counter every thing . And to counter them You need, ghost,raven and tank . It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Zerg player just have to A move and fungal and terran to spam apm like shit to survive . The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .See, this could be done for your race as well.  Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well... Except ghosts never actually kill anything. Ghosts's EMP is a one time deal and half your units have less than 70 shields. Fungals can be chained endlessly. Siege tanks have 4 range extra range only if they have spotting vision. Otherwise its plus 2 range. This means your real leeway is only about 2 range. PS. It takes 3 snipes (75 energy) to kill an infestor because of the +1 health regen.
A protoss army without shields is a dead army against an equal sized terran army.
It doesn't matter if siege tanks have 4 or 2 extra range since the damage is instant and a few siege tanks can completely deny infestors from getting in range.
If you stay one upgrade ahead of your zerg opponent you will be able to 2 shot with ghost snipes.
|
On April 27 2011 00:42 CatNzHat wrote:
Blizzard thought storm was overpowered, they were right, now they've given zerg a storm you can't run out of... combine that with no research required, extreme mobility (infestors are super fast, have burrow movement by default, creep bonus, etc...) A tier 2 unit (infestors are 2t, like mutas) should not be able to kill 25 upgraded t1 units with t2 support, without taking some sort of loss, you literally cannot attack a zerg that has infestors and is awake, they'll fungal the marines the instant they try to advance, and then the terran army is dead, if you try to go mech vs infestors, fungal the hellions, neural the thors, gg. If you go ghosts vs infestors, fungal to remove cloack, neural, emp the other ghosts or snipe something to kill the energy. If there was a way for terrans to combat fungal growth, then it might be balanced, but right now the only way to combat fungal growth is to just hope they clump their infestors and let u emp them, which is rare and relies completely on a bad opponent, you might as well ask them to attack move all their drones into your siege line, it's something you can't control. The new ghost change will kinda help improve TvZ, but TvP is a whole different thing, as terran doesn't have any late game gas dump AOE damage, ghosts were the closest thing we had to AOE, now that they're no longer a gas dump, when terran is getting mined out we're screwed and very inefficient. If infestors were immobile like siege tanks, then sure, I'd be fine with the buff, but if you have a unit that's as fast as a roach, costs just 100/150, 2 food, and can kill 25 marines in 4 seconds and then always be able to retreat? well then u have an unkillable unit that completely shuts down every form of direct attack terran has, as well as being able to shut down almost all forms of harass (aside from mb a thor drop). Hopefully blizzard makes fungal growth a projectile, and/or slowly wear off (the slow effect at least). This would make it possible for terrans to actually combat it (protoss have HTs and feedback, they should not be complaining about fungal growth... and come on, collosus are still imba 0.o).
Once your units have been fungaled, you can't do shit about it, you just say to yourself "Well, I better kill the infestors faster next time."
Storm is still too powerful, as is feedback, but at least you can do something about it when storm lands on your army.... And u can kill the retreating HT even if you lose all your units to the storm (most of the time at least). With infestors, you can never kill them unless they're all out of energy at the same time, which is very unlikely due to the timings of energy regen combined with spawn larvae, they should be on a nice little round robin cycle)
All I see here is "My race is UP, you're race is OP"
No specific justification other than "It's hard".
|
Even if it's OP in ZvT, you guys already have a Ghost buff on the horizon
On April 27 2011 00:42 Lafonzo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:14 Lafonzo wrote:
The problem with infestor as terran is they counter every thing . And to counter them You need, ghost,raven and tank . It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Zerg player just have to A move and fungal and terran to spam apm like shit to survive . The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .See, this could be done for your race as well. Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well... These units are all counter by fungul . and cost a shit load of gaz. Raven should be a good counter to these if seeker missile would be better. well infestor had just get an Hp boost anyway .At the end you can survive and manage to counter them but in my opinion you need to much of an investment to counter them. Another point is to scout them to .You see an infestation pit it doesn't mean He goes for infestor He maybe just tech up so often your taken off guard by them . Emp don't do any damage like storm or fungul. and no terran dont have to just A moove vs Toss. You have to postion you viking,using emp, pdd,stim and spread your units in an arc to survive .
Ghosts do decently against Infestors, Brood Lords and Ultras because of EMP and Snipe, so it doesn't really matter that much whether they get Infestors or go to Hive, Ghosts will do well vs either. And they aren't that shabby in terms of DPS vs light so having them in your army isn't that much of a hindrance, especially after their gas cost gets reduced.
Wait, did you actually write that Ghosts are countered by Fungal? That's just kind of... wrong.
|
"Really Too Strong?" Where does that REALLY come from? Oh right.. because every zerg now dominates every lan event and grabs first place in all tournaments with that sick fungal buff... wait...
|
On April 27 2011 00:42 Lafonzo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:14 Lafonzo wrote:
The problem with infestor as terran is they counter every thing . And to counter them You need, ghost,raven and tank . It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Zerg player just have to A move and fungal and terran to spam apm like shit to survive . The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .See, this could be done for your race as well. Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well... These units are all counter by fungul . and cost a shit load of gaz. Raven should be a good counter to these if seeker missile would be better. well infestor had just get an Hp boost anyway .At the end you can survive and manage to counter them but in my opinion you need to much of an investment to counter them. Another point is to scout them to .You see an infestation pit it doesn't mean He goes for infestor He maybe just tech up so often your taken off guard by them . Emp don't do any damage like storm or fungul. and no terran dont have to just A moove vs Toss. You have to postion you viking,using emp, pdd,stim and spread your units in an arc to survive .
You have tanks, blue flame hellions, thors, marines with stim and all that good stuff that does your damage. You can't have EMP to do damage aswell,
You don't need too much of an investment to "counter" them, that's like saying it's too much of an investment for me to counter ravens, since the Hunter Seeker Missile counters all my units when they're in a clump which means that I need more then just the "right" unit to be able to beat someone who has a ton of ravens.
It's the same thing with infestors where it makes you require more then just the right units but you also need to control your units well which is a good thing for the game.
|
Infestors are a joke at the moment vs terran(as has been stated multiple times). They'll become even more prevalent as more and more people switch over from the mutaling style, which is pretty damn good in the first place.
The problem is a fungal destroys infantry way too well. It makes pushing out against zerg next to impossible, which is the exact same problem terran had vs protoss with amulet HTs. Once the game turns into a full tech battle, Terran gets annihilated because their mobilty and transitions are trash compared to the other races.
You basically have to sit behind a siege line or push at an abysmally slow rate, which lets zerg setup and destroy it anyways. I wouldn't have a problem if EMPs still removed maximum energy or if fungal was actually possible to micro against. As it stands, fungal is basically psi storm against marines that you can't move out of.
|
On April 27 2011 00:47 Batch wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 00:38 Griffith` wrote:On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:14 Lafonzo wrote:
The problem with infestor as terran is they counter every thing . And to counter them You need, ghost,raven and tank . It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Zerg player just have to A move and fungal and terran to spam apm like shit to survive . The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .See, this could be done for your race as well. Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well... Except ghosts never actually kill anything. Ghosts's EMP is a one time deal and half your units have less than 70 shields. Fungals can be chained endlessly. Siege tanks have 4 range extra range only if they have spotting vision. Otherwise its plus 2 range. This means your real leeway is only about 2 range. PS. It takes 3 snipes (75 energy) to kill an infestor because of the +1 health regen. A protoss army without shields is a dead army against an equal sized terran army. It doesn't matter if siege tanks have 4 or 2 extra range since the damage is instant and a few siege tanks can completely deny infestors from getting in range. If you stay one upgrade ahead of your zerg opponent you will be able to 2 shot with ghost snipes.
An EMPed protoss army can re-treat and regen its shields, a fungaled terran army can't.
Snipes and other spells don't benefit from weapon upgrades. If you don't know this, you are probably below diamond.
The extra 4 vs 2 range is a huge difference. If you don't think range matters, lets take away the roach range buff. Note that if the Terran player does have a massive number of siege tanks, Zergs can just toss infested terran cocoons into marine balls to deal damage.
Point is, infestors do far too much damage and is far too versatile. It is a unit with no weaknesses.
On April 27 2011 00:50 .Enigma. wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 00:42 Lafonzo wrote:On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:14 Lafonzo wrote:
The problem with infestor as terran is they counter every thing . And to counter them You need, ghost,raven and tank . It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Zerg player just have to A move and fungal and terran to spam apm like shit to survive . The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .See, this could be done for your race as well. Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well... These units are all counter by fungul . and cost a shit load of gaz. Raven should be a good counter to these if seeker missile would be better. well infestor had just get an Hp boost anyway .At the end you can survive and manage to counter them but in my opinion you need to much of an investment to counter them. Another point is to scout them to .You see an infestation pit it doesn't mean He goes for infestor He maybe just tech up so often your taken off guard by them . Emp don't do any damage like storm or fungul. and no terran dont have to just A moove vs Toss. You have to postion you viking,using emp, pdd,stim and spread your units in an arc to survive . You have tanks, blue flame hellions, thors, marines with stim and all that good stuff that does your damage. You can't have EMP to do damage aswell, You don't need too much of an investment to "counter" them, that's like saying it's too much of an investment for me to counter ravens, since the Hunter Seeker Missile counters all my units when they're in a clump which means that I need more then just the "right" unit to be able to beat someone who has a ton of ravens. It's the same thing with infestors where it makes you require more then just the right units but you also need to control your units well which is a good thing for the game.
Funny, tanks, hellions, thors, marines, all the good stuff, they are all countered by infestors. You can DODGE HSMs so easily if you have over 50 apm, not to mention dangers of missile drag. HSMs aint got nothing on Irradiate.
|
I think in the current metagame Infestors are OP, BUT, it's not because they are inherently OP, it's just that the other races don't have builds that correctly deal with them yet. Terrans don't get enough Ghosts because there was nothing to EMP previously and too many units that snipe would make a difference, while Protoss ignore feedback (1 HT can kill or at least seriously wound and disable 2 Infestors right when he spawns) because with Colossi you could just A-Move anyways and Storm looks fancier when it's on a group of Zerg units. While i have multiple times defended a maxed push (of Protoss/Terran/Zerg) just with a group of 10-15 infestors, it's not like they can't be dealt with, it's just that the Metagame hasn't developed into the direction that Zerg use Infestors in every matchup. It's just a matter of time until the Game develops in a way that supports dealing with Infestors, it already happens every 10 games or so that i lose a bunch of infestors in a split second to feedback or get hit by EMP that disables half of them.
Until the opponents learn to deal with them, i'll just enjoy my auto-win as soon as i reach 10 Infestors. It's nice to feel OP for a while and be honest, going Mutalisks every game was boring, wasn't it?
Now go and find solutions to deal with them, folks.
|
On April 27 2011 00:50 liewec wrote:
"Really Too Strong?" Where does that REALLY come from? Oh right.. because every zerg now dominates every lan event and grabs first place in all tournaments with that sick fungal buff... wait...
Guessing you didn't read the post then. I was arguing that it wasn't too strong but asking firstly if the majority of people do think it is, and for anyone who does think it is, why they think it is. I stated that twice clearly.
I haven't had enough time to consider everything in 100 or something posts to respond properly yet though, but please read the post before replying to it. 
|
As a terran player (high gold), who watched every single GSl and TSL from Feb onwards, I feel that the infestor patch is an improvement to the game. I think zerg now should not have any complaints against terran, since july_zerg's matches I feel TvZ has become very balanced matchup.
However, I feel blizzard should address the PvZ matchup, maybe extra damage against shields as well.
|
On April 27 2011 00:45 Arkless wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 00:05 WhiteDog wrote:On April 26 2011 23:22 Arkless wrote:On April 26 2011 23:11 WhiteDog wrote:On April 26 2011 23:07 toadyy wrote:
Ling Infestor is borderline broken in ZvT and ZvP, high level zergs for some reason don't even consider Infestors they play Roach Hydra the whole game and wonder why they lose. In ZvT Infestor counters every Terran unit in the game, impossible to counter unless zerg herp derps and 1 control groups his infestors with his main army. 1: Wrong 2: That's because you don't have the level they have so you don't know. 3:Sure infestor counter tanks... ho wait! He is actually fairly correct. Fungals are far to strong vs bio. And burrow'd infestor infested marine drops on tank line add to their current strength. With the recent gas nerf on ghosts next patch though I think it will even it out. As of right now though..... its kind of rediculous. Going ghosts in tvz is so very far away and so very gas intesive you basically need to commit two gysers to constantly produce 1 ghost. leaving you tank and thorless more or less. No he is wrong, infestor are not broken in ZvP, high level zerg are not idiots that "wonder why they lose". In ZvT infestor don't counter tanks. Period, you have nothing else to add. Just don't bio, or play better / split them / advance slowly with your tank line. Go ghost when you have 6+ gaz geyser ? Don't tell me what I do and don't have. Your elitist attitude is not needed. I never said terran should be able to get ghosts tanks and thors, but ghosts are a very weak subsitute at the moment between the threee because of time/gas spent/survivability. Please leave your comments to yourself when you have nothing to contribute but an attitude where you think you are better. When you are probably/almost definatly not. And your attitude alone shows such.
Aren't you the one that show a bad attitude saying all the zerg pro lose but don't know why ? Basically you are saying they are idiots.
Pre patch, the counter to infestor play was to just build fast 2 fact and pump out tank. Then you would advance slowly toward the zerg base and not forget to let your marine behind tanks because infestor are armored and have 80 hp so they get killed in 2 shots. Overall, without muta, it's really hard to survive a terran marine tank heavy push on two bases (and by tank heavy, i mean 2 fact pump out tanks). That's why I just go muta first and then switch on infestor: it feels more safe against any kind of tank heavy play. I think most of the zerg pro actually do the same, I have yet to see a zerg star going for infestor play and not making any muta before on map such as meta or xelnaga ( of course things are different on bigger maps like tal darim).
I just don't understand terran player that says "infestor counter all terran units", because the tank just counter infestor ? Why not trying to advance slowly ?
|
I think ghosts are not cost efficient. They should have speed upgrade or something, they always get left behind on retreat and die, and they are so expensive.
|
They are good but are so fragile and easy to target that I wouldn't say OP.
|
On April 26 2011 23:11 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 23:07 toadyy wrote:
Ling Infestor is borderline broken in ZvT and ZvP, high level zergs for some reason don't even consider Infestors they play Roach Hydra the whole game and wonder why they lose. In ZvT Infestor counters every Terran unit in the game, impossible to counter unless zerg herp derps and 1 control groups his infestors with his main army. 1: Wrong 2: That's because you don't have the level they have so you don't know. 3:Sure infestor counter tanks... ho wait!
I hate the way yoou say number three. No they dont counter tanks, no because counter is the wrong word.
they are good, because if you spawn INFESTED TERRANS on them, they cant hit them, and get splashed by other tanks. so in a way they rock against tanks.
|
On April 27 2011 00:51 Griffith` wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 00:47 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:38 Griffith` wrote:On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:14 Lafonzo wrote:
The problem with infestor as terran is they counter every thing . And to counter them You need, ghost,raven and tank . It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Zerg player just have to A move and fungal and terran to spam apm like shit to survive . The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .See, this could be done for your race as well. Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well... Except ghosts never actually kill anything. Ghosts's EMP is a one time deal and half your units have less than 70 shields. Fungals can be chained endlessly. Siege tanks have 4 range extra range only if they have spotting vision. Otherwise its plus 2 range. This means your real leeway is only about 2 range. PS. It takes 3 snipes (75 energy) to kill an infestor because of the +1 health regen. A protoss army without shields is a dead army against an equal sized terran army. It doesn't matter if siege tanks have 4 or 2 extra range since the damage is instant and a few siege tanks can completely deny infestors from getting in range. If you stay one upgrade ahead of your zerg opponent you will be able to 2 shot with ghost snipes. An EMPed protoss army can re-treat and regen its shields, a fungaled terran army can't. Snipes and other spells don't benefit from weapon upgrades. If you don't know this, you are probably below diamond. The extra 4 vs 2 range is a huge difference. If you don't think range matters, lets take away the roach range buff. Note that if the Terran player does have a massive number of siege tanks, Zergs can just toss infested terran cocoons into marine balls to deal damage. Point is, infestors do far too much damage and is far too versatile. It is a unit with no weaknesses. Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 00:50 .Enigma. wrote:On April 27 2011 00:42 Lafonzo wrote:On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:14 Lafonzo wrote:
The problem with infestor as terran is they counter every thing . And to counter them You need, ghost,raven and tank . It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Zerg player just have to A move and fungal and terran to spam apm like shit to survive . The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .See, this could be done for your race as well. Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well... These units are all counter by fungul . and cost a shit load of gaz. Raven should be a good counter to these if seeker missile would be better. well infestor had just get an Hp boost anyway .At the end you can survive and manage to counter them but in my opinion you need to much of an investment to counter them. Another point is to scout them to .You see an infestation pit it doesn't mean He goes for infestor He maybe just tech up so often your taken off guard by them . Emp don't do any damage like storm or fungul. and no terran dont have to just A moove vs Toss. You have to postion you viking,using emp, pdd,stim and spread your units in an arc to survive . You have tanks, blue flame hellions, thors, marines with stim and all that good stuff that does your damage. You can't have EMP to do damage aswell, You don't need too much of an investment to "counter" them, that's like saying it's too much of an investment for me to counter ravens, since the Hunter Seeker Missile counters all my units when they're in a clump which means that I need more then just the "right" unit to be able to beat someone who has a ton of ravens. It's the same thing with infestors where it makes you require more then just the right units but you also need to control your units well which is a good thing for the game. Funny, tanks, hellions, thors, marines, all the good stuff, they are all countered by infestors. You can DODGE HSMs so easily if you have over 50 apm, not to mention dangers of missile drag. HSMs aint got nothing on Irradiate.
I like how you opened your post with Ghosts, then completely forgot about them when you concluded that the Infestor is a unit "with no weakness".
EMP the Infestors.
|
Canada13405 Posts
I feel that the only change if any that should be applied is to not force the units to not move due to fungal. It can reduce movement speed by a lot that's fine but to force them to not move is frustrating and removes the option to micro. I would like to be able to pull back some hurt units and try to protect them and I would also like to be able to move them away when banelings come rolling in. Thats all.
|
On April 27 2011 01:00 garlicface wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 00:51 Griffith` wrote:On April 27 2011 00:47 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:38 Griffith` wrote:On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:14 Lafonzo wrote:
The problem with infestor as terran is they counter every thing . And to counter them You need, ghost,raven and tank . It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Zerg player just have to A move and fungal and terran to spam apm like shit to survive . The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .See, this could be done for your race as well. Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well... Except ghosts never actually kill anything. Ghosts's EMP is a one time deal and half your units have less than 70 shields. Fungals can be chained endlessly. Siege tanks have 4 range extra range only if they have spotting vision. Otherwise its plus 2 range. This means your real leeway is only about 2 range. PS. It takes 3 snipes (75 energy) to kill an infestor because of the +1 health regen. A protoss army without shields is a dead army against an equal sized terran army. It doesn't matter if siege tanks have 4 or 2 extra range since the damage is instant and a few siege tanks can completely deny infestors from getting in range. If you stay one upgrade ahead of your zerg opponent you will be able to 2 shot with ghost snipes. An EMPed protoss army can re-treat and regen its shields, a fungaled terran army can't. Snipes and other spells don't benefit from weapon upgrades. If you don't know this, you are probably below diamond. The extra 4 vs 2 range is a huge difference. If you don't think range matters, lets take away the roach range buff. Note that if the Terran player does have a massive number of siege tanks, Zergs can just toss infested terran cocoons into marine balls to deal damage. Point is, infestors do far too much damage and is far too versatile. It is a unit with no weaknesses. On April 27 2011 00:50 .Enigma. wrote:On April 27 2011 00:42 Lafonzo wrote:On April 27 2011 00:31 Batch wrote:On April 27 2011 00:14 Lafonzo wrote:
The problem with infestor as terran is they counter every thing . And to counter them You need, ghost,raven and tank . It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Zerg player just have to A move and fungal and terran to spam apm like shit to survive . The problem with ghosts as protoss is they counter every thing. And to counter them You need, sentry, observer and colossos. It's a lot of gaz for a unit . Another factor is Terran player just have to stim, A move and EMP and protoss to spam apm like shit to survive .See, this could be done for your race as well. Siege tanks got 4 units longer range than infestors. Ghosts can snipe for 45 damage (infestors got 90 health). Cloaked banshees can snipe infestors fast. Battlecruiser can probably take down one or two infestors as well... These units are all counter by fungul . and cost a shit load of gaz. Raven should be a good counter to these if seeker missile would be better. well infestor had just get an Hp boost anyway .At the end you can survive and manage to counter them but in my opinion you need to much of an investment to counter them. Another point is to scout them to .You see an infestation pit it doesn't mean He goes for infestor He maybe just tech up so often your taken off guard by them . Emp don't do any damage like storm or fungul. and no terran dont have to just A moove vs Toss. You have to postion you viking,using emp, pdd,stim and spread your units in an arc to survive . You have tanks, blue flame hellions, thors, marines with stim and all that good stuff that does your damage. You can't have EMP to do damage aswell, You don't need too much of an investment to "counter" them, that's like saying it's too much of an investment for me to counter ravens, since the Hunter Seeker Missile counters all my units when they're in a clump which means that I need more then just the "right" unit to be able to beat someone who has a ton of ravens. It's the same thing with infestors where it makes you require more then just the right units but you also need to control your units well which is a good thing for the game. Funny, tanks, hellions, thors, marines, all the good stuff, they are all countered by infestors. You can DODGE HSMs so easily if you have over 50 apm, not to mention dangers of missile drag. HSMs aint got nothing on Irradiate. I like how you opened your post with Ghosts, then completely forgot about them when you concluded that the Infestor is a unit "with no weakness". EMP the Infestors.
It's not a weakness if you force Terran to make a unit that has zero utility aside of infestors (not to mention at times you will probably need 2+ emps to drain the energy of a single infestor.).
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
