EPT
And when you get a bunch of mutas, you need LOTS of them to make them even worthwhile, and that costs a lot of gas. So you save all your gas for mutas and try to survive with lings/queens as long as possible. I think the fact someone mentioned - that zerg has to expand (sometimes solely for gas) while other races happily camp on 1-2 bases says enough.[D] Zerg Detection - Page 27
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freestalker
469 Posts
And when you get a bunch of mutas, you need LOTS of them to make them even worthwhile, and that costs a lot of gas. So you save all your gas for mutas and try to survive with lings/queens as long as possible. I think the fact someone mentioned - that zerg has to expand (sometimes solely for gas) while other races happily camp on 1-2 bases says enough. | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On October 24 2011 13:20 Steel wrote: That was fine in BW but would nullify cloaked Banshee harass in SC2.IMO to compensate for overseer, make overlord speed have detection too. All the overlords had detection in BW, and that was fine. | ||
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KULA_u
Switzerland107 Posts
I vipers will make the zerg detection and scout problem even worse than it was with overseers. Aside from detection, scouting will be even more of a problem for zerg than it was before and will now require even more guessing games. In addition, detecting overlords always was one of the defining aspects of zerg, and blizzard just killed it. @cloaked banshee problem: then maybe just build a viking? | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
On October 23 2011 22:44 Jayjay54 wrote: I don't know if u REALLY played that unit or just talking shit. can someone confirm this? if you're right, then I'm sorry. My statements were made because it says everywhere that it's a one time use ability. http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/10/21/official-list-of-unit-changes-in-starcraft-iis-heart-of-the-swarm-expansion/ and some guy above me posted additional link. I kind of feel that u didn't actually test it and just talk aggressively for no reason. Great. I'm sure there's lots of wrong information out there. I don't know if the playable HOTS wasn't completely 'correct', or if there are planned changes yet to be implemented, but I'm telling you what I played. I even double checked on sunday. The viper can cast ocular parasite as many times as it has energy. I played the game quite a few times, and I specifically checked that a single viper could cast it multiple times. Maybe what is being confused is that you can only do it once to another unit, as once it has the eye you can't cast the spell on it again, but practically that doesn't mean anything. Its great you know how to read, but I actually played hots at blizzcon. The Viper spawns with energy energy to cast Ocular Eye, but not enough for Blinding Cloud or Abduct. Abduct costs a lot of energy, I believe 100. Blinding Cloud I believe was 75, and Eye at 50 since you only had enough energy to cast it once when viper spawned. There is nowhere to research anything for vipers since it already comes with the ability to do all it's spells and there's no additional things for it (extra energy when spawned, etc). Also, the Viper is NOT a detector. | ||
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nihlon
Sweden5581 Posts
On October 24 2011 23:06 Belial88 wrote: Great. I'm sure there's lots of wrong information out there. I don't know if the playable HOTS wasn't completely 'correct', or if there are planned changes yet to be implemented, but I'm telling you what I played. I even double checked on sunday. The viper can cast ocular parasite as many times as it has energy. I played the game quite a few times, and I specifically checked that a single viper could cast it multiple times. Maybe what is being confused is that you can only do it once to another unit, as once it has the eye you can't cast the spell on it again, but practically that doesn't mean anything. Its great you know how to read, but I actually played hots at blizzcon. The Viper spawns with energy energy to cast Ocular Eye, but not enough for Blinding Cloud or Abduct. Abduct costs a lot of energy, I believe 100. Blinding Cloud I believe was 75, and Eye at 50 since you only had enough energy to cast it once when viper spawned. There is nowhere to research anything for vipers since it already comes with the ability to do all it's spells and there's no additional things for it (extra energy when spawned, etc). Does the detection stays on first unit if you cast it on a second? If I understand you correctly that is the case (the both have detection)? | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
I'm not sure if the enemy sees which unit has detection (to maybe snipe them out), or if what was written on a third party website about HOTS is what will actually happen instead of what I played. It's possible blizz may be planning to make it so eye can only be casted once, and that wasn't implemented yet, but as of the playable version at blizzcon, you could cast it on as many units as you want with the same viper. | ||
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ch33psh33p
7650 Posts
On October 24 2011 13:47 [uci] Fizik wrote: Let's be honest zerg, you always have an excess of gas. You get Dark Swarm back and then complain about losing overseers... all you need is lair tech for viper and as far as gas it just means we might see zerg getting second gas a little earlier then they have been. Its disruption web, not dark swarm. Learn BW please. | ||
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vicml21
Canada165 Posts
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Eviscerador
Spain286 Posts
Then, i will hit lair, morph a Viper, which is 200 gas (maybe 100 or 50 mine dunno) and THEN use the energy on it into another bug to give it detection, which can be sniped easily, so instead of just morphing another overseer (or just make two in the first place in heavy contested areas) just die to cloacked atrittion. Nice move Blizzard. What I can't understand is how I'm supposed to play a reactive race with nearly zero early game scouting, with that mobile detection timing. | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
The reason I prefer overseers, is that, zerg units tend to die very quickly. Even if new detection is at same overseer time in game (as in, right after lair), if I need detection now, all of a sudden I have to make sure I keep whatever unit I made alive. Seeing as how zerg units are more expendable, I kind of liked how at least overseers had a little more health and can fly. Being harder to target is great, but when the unit has very little health (which is pretty much everything except ultras), it doesnt help lol. You can just make an overlord a detector. I think the problem is that: 1. A viper is 200 gas, and has enough energy for only 1 eye when it pops out. We've all been there where a banshee/dt is both in the nat and main - I guess hopefully you spent 400 on gas. 2. Scouting with no overseer. Now, Zerg NEEDS overlord speed asap. Which is kind of expensive. They lower the cost of overseer to 50 gas, then remove it so essentially we have to spend 100 gas again. The viper does nothing for scouting (unless your okay flying an extremely slow 200 gas unit from home to their base), so kind of confusing. | ||
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DARKHYDRA
United States303 Posts
On October 24 2011 21:04 [F_]aths wrote: That was fine in BW but would nullify cloaked Banshee harass in SC2. People still used cloaked wraiths vs zerg in bw and they had less dps vs ground than banshees not to mention zerg had tier 1 hydras so your argument doesnt make sense. Blizzard fucked up plain and simple in both changing OL detection and hydra tech. | ||
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cristo1122
Australia505 Posts
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
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Giantt
Bulgaria82 Posts
Cant really understand blizzard's notion that overseer is not cool - I consider it one of the cleaverly thought zerg units. Both changelings and contaminate are spells that have their application most of the games and it would be unfortunate to loose them. If the issue is only detection - that both viper and overseer are going to have it - I would be quite happy to see overseer's detection replaced by something else and keep him in the game. | ||
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baba44713
83 Posts
Let's have some faith in Blizzard. At least until we are actually sure they majorly screwed up on this. | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
The 200 gas cost of the viper is kind of high. I get that you can cast OP many times from a viper, but as it spawns you can only cast it once (because, you know, you only have energy to do it once). Maybe lower the energy cost/raise starting energy so you can cast OP twice upon viper spawn. | ||
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PresenceSc2
Australia4032 Posts
Hopefully they have something else planed for scouting | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10966 Posts
ON WHAT would i cast that eye when I reach T2 and plan to be offensive? A Roach? A Hydra? A Zergling? An Overlrod (lol, back to the roots baby)? It just makes no sense. | ||
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SwiftSpear
Canada355 Posts
On October 23 2011 23:05 Jayjay54 wrote: 1. it is pretty much comfirmed that this is lair only. no spire needed also, it is def NOT a detector by default. as u can see in this vid this hovering eye is the detector, I also think it can't be casted on themselves edit: @swiftspear: zerg will still not really force detection. burrow baneling is hive tech and the swarm lord doesnt really force detection immediately. imo it will be even easier to snipe "the overseer" now. it will be an overlord or an attacking unit with a huge hovering eye on it. I still can't think of any example where the viper detection should be any better than the overseer. maybe u guys can help me. Burrow roach already forces detection and they can come out around the same time as DT. Infestors too. Late game I think you'll have to either have detection or be screwed, baneling bombs that can move are terrifying for any opponent. | ||
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Lixo
202 Posts
Now with what units are we going to scoot at T2 ? a Viper ? The decisions that Blizzard is making for zergs really seem so un-zergy to me... End of the design whine. | ||
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