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Nemireck
Canada1875 Posts
On October 23 2011 02:59 EdSlyB wrote: Maybe you can build two Vipers and cast Ocular Parasite in each other? Voilá!! Overseer 2.0  This is precisely what I envision myself doing for my mobile detection, and on my queens for my in-base detection. | ||
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DARKHYDRA
United States303 Posts
On October 25 2011 18:11 SwiftSpear wrote: Burrow roach already forces detection and they can come out around the same time as DT. Infestors too. Late game I think you'll have to either have detection or be screwed, baneling bombs that can move are terrifying for any opponent. Did u really just compare burrow roach to dark templar? Gtfo If u have an army and no detection vs burrow roachs? np, vs just 1 dark templar? Yea gl with that. U don't really need detection vs anything zerg has, atleast not in the same way u do vs dt or banshee, with those two your getting punished every second that goes by without detection, with burrow roach or infested terran you just need to know the opponent has the tech and then you can just keep your army in your base to fight it until you get detection np. | ||
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baba44713
83 Posts
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Klystron
United States99 Posts
On October 24 2011 23:06 Belial88 wrote: Great. I'm sure there's lots of wrong information out there. I don't know if the playable HOTS wasn't completely 'correct', or if there are planned changes yet to be implemented, but I'm telling you what I played. I even double checked on sunday. The viper can cast ocular parasite as many times as it has energy. I played the game quite a few times, and I specifically checked that a single viper could cast it multiple times. Maybe what is being confused is that you can only do it once to another unit, as once it has the eye you can't cast the spell on it again, but practically that doesn't mean anything. Its great you know how to read, but I actually played hots at blizzcon. The Viper spawns with energy energy to cast Ocular Eye, but not enough for Blinding Cloud or Abduct. Abduct costs a lot of energy, I believe 100. Blinding Cloud I believe was 75, and Eye at 50 since you only had enough energy to cast it once when viper spawned. There is nowhere to research anything for vipers since it already comes with the ability to do all it's spells and there's no additional things for it (extra energy when spawned, etc). Also, the Viper is NOT a detector. I can confirm what this man has said. Guys, what you have read on the new hots units can be wrong. At Blizzcon we were testing a build that had been updated since all of the new unit info was written down. 1) Ocular Eye is energy based and can be cast as many times as you feel like it. I remember turning more than half my army into detectors with only 2-4 vipers. 2) Vipers are not detectors, however, you can use one viper to make another a detector. I know that sometimes the devs can make mistakes. However, as evidenced by all the pitch fork waving going around on every sc2 related forum, I'm pretty confident that they already spotted and fixed this problem by the time that we got to play the game at blizzcon. | ||
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justinpal
United States3810 Posts
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Sveet
United States86 Posts
Also, i dont think zerg really has detection issues. | ||
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Mordoc
United States162 Posts
OP is flat out wrong, the viper is available at lair without another building, making it the fastest mobile detection to produce. Uh, that's actually slower (than any other race), and SIGNIFICANTLY slower than what it is now. I suspect Viper will have a morph time of 40-50 seconds, while the overseer is 17 seconds; and the viper will cost an additional 150 gas (more than the overseer). Think of it this way: Right now, DT rushes are viable strats. Not to common, but they can easily give you a bunch of games on ladder, especially in the lower leagues (bronze-plat, and even diamond). With vipers, it will take 150 gas longer (meaning you better cut even more drones and keep mining gas) and ~25 more seconds to get that precious detection, which will also not be available in two places (like said before, with a banshee or a DT at each base), which will cost you extra (a lot). | ||
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Vei
United States2845 Posts
On October 31 2011 04:28 Sveet wrote: OP is flat out wrong, the viper is available at lair without another building, making it the fastest mobile detection to produce. Also, i dont think zerg really has detection issues. our mobile detector costs 200 gas in hots... | ||
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zyzski
United States698 Posts
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idonthinksobro
3138 Posts
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
You can make any unit a detector is the point though, so theoretically keeping the first one alive is 200 gas for any unit you decide to be your detection. | ||
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Maekchu
140 Posts
You use air to contain Zerg detection (Phoenix), while using Dt's to contain the Zerg from taking a third. At the same time you macro up and crush him with a superior army. If you are lucky and snipe some overlords at the natural, you can take Dt's in to shut that down as well. I personally don't like the idea, that the Zerg has lost the game and have very small chances of making a comeback, if they fail to get detection in time. Instead I prefer, an approach where DT's will contain you, but the defending player is given an opportunity to make a comeback. | ||
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Haustka
United States221 Posts
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ShatterZer0
United States1843 Posts
On October 31 2011 03:43 justinpal wrote: 300 Gas for detection? Why do Zerg need to be nearly 2x as much a Protoss? And 5x more than a Terran to detect DTs, Banshees, etc? 300 gas for infinite super versatile detection.... really must suck to be you... XD | ||
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Qwyn
United States2779 Posts
On October 31 2011 07:32 Mordoc wrote: Uh, that's actually slower (than any other race), and SIGNIFICANTLY slower than what it is now. I suspect Viper will have a morph time of 40-50 seconds, while the overseer is 17 seconds; and the viper will cost an additional 150 gas (more than the overseer). Think of it this way: Right now, DT rushes are viable strats. Not to common, but they can easily give you a bunch of games on ladder, especially in the lower leagues (bronze-plat, and even diamond). With vipers, it will take 150 gas longer (meaning you better cut even more drones and keep mining gas) and ~25 more seconds to get that precious detection, which will also not be available in two places (like said before, with a banshee or a DT at each base), which will cost you extra (a lot). Since when have has any zerg player used anything OTHER than a spore to stop 7:30 DT rushes? I for one would never get a lair that early. If you're going to argue against a unit which comes out with lair tech (a la overseer), and has a host of new abilities (one of which is the ability to make ANY UNIT a detector as many times as desired) in addition to mobile detection and fulfills dual roles, use a different example than an early dt rush. There is NO reason why I cannot hold off a DT rush with three spores and be fine. I understand where you are coming from, though. It's probably like, what, 50 energy for the ocular eye spell? One viper can go around and make each queen a detector, and you can easily make spores. I think there won't be that much of a gap at all. Also, even if you were to get early viper, that's only 100 more gas. Whoopty doo? | ||
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vojnik
Macedonia923 Posts
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SeeDLiNg
United States690 Posts
On October 31 2011 11:33 [5th]Sybaris wrote: Since when have has any zerg player used anything OTHER than a spore to stop 7:30 DT rushes? I for one would never get a lair that early. If you're going to argue against a unit which comes out with lair tech (a la overseer), and has a host of new abilities (one of which is the ability to make ANY UNIT a detector as many times as desired) in addition to mobile detection and fulfills dual roles, use a different example than an early dt rush. There is NO reason why I cannot hold off a DT rush with three spores and be fine. I understand where you are coming from, though. It's probably like, what, 50 energy for the ocular eye spell? One viper can go around and make each queen a detector, and you can easily make spores. I think there won't be that much of a gap at all. Also, even if you were to get early viper, that's only 100 more gas. Whoopty doo? Pretty sure viper can only make one unit a detector.. And I DO get lair extremely early vs protoss for overseers for scouting purposes, which can then double as my detector. So let's say we're on 3 base, make 3 queens your detectors. That's only 500 more gas. Whoopty doo? | ||
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Goldfish
2230 Posts
On October 25 2011 16:03 Giantt wrote: I wouldnt mind to see some redundancy and have both viper and overseer as an option. Cant really understand blizzard's notion that overseer is not cool - I consider it one of the cleaverly thought zerg units. Both changelings and contaminate are spells that have their application most of the games and it would be unfortunate to loose them. If the issue is only detection - that both viper and overseer are going to have it - I would be quite happy to see overseer's detection replaced by something else and keep him in the game. Agreed. Now I can see "maybe" why they wanted to remove Carrier (Carrier + Tempest army might become some crazy death ball... a flying death ball!) but I don't think removing Overseer is needed. | ||
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EPT
He will be missed. I use them to scout very often and I keep one at every expansion for lategame DTs, because of too many times where the toss ran in with multiple DTs and just killed my spore(s).
