EPTCatZ Discusses Home-Grown NA SC2 Scene - Page 2
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oursblanc
Canada1450 Posts
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Asha
United Kingdom38257 Posts
I agree with Catz' overall opinion on the situation I think; if you can establish regional competition it's often easier to attract new fans who associate more with the players at least, and it really will help solidify esports at a more grass roots level, which hopefully then leads people through to the bigger events. Succesful ventures like the EPS are obvious examples of this, and I think if SC2 continues to grow it will be inevitable that more happen (the IGN league could remain NA exclusive for one thing). It's also promising seeing the number of inter college/university competitions that seem to be popping up. Essentially any more regular regional competition is a good way to foster the development of a scene in that area. On another note, people need to not get too hung up on Catz using the NASL as an example in his argument, he just used it to frame the point he was making. I'm sure Catz knows that there isn't enough NA talent to retain enough global interest (that I presume the NASL wants/needs) and support a 50 player league with 100k prize money on its own right now. | ||
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Swarmed
59 Posts
If you want something that is exclusive to NA players, I'm afraid if it's going to have a leg to stand on, it's going to have to be a IRL event. | ||
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vdale
Germany1173 Posts
The only thing everybody agrees on is that lag discussions are horrible for any tournament. | ||
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Lemonayd
United States745 Posts
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QTIP.
United States2113 Posts
To make e-sports grow.. you need tons of viewers. You need money. And like InControl said... 99% of the viewers want some Koreans in the NASL. There was even a poll on TL showing this. The NASL can still be big with Koreans in it! It can still help e-sports grow. I understand that having your NA and EU Icons would be fantastic, but don't you have them already? Jinro is an inspirational player for many European players, and Idra has already shown that he's among the worlds best. HuK has made his way to code S... For E-sports to grow, you need to give your support base what they want. And for now, they want to see some Koreans in the NASL to spice it up. I think it will be good in the long run! | ||
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Bobo_
United States192 Posts
As a fan of eSports, I would want shit to get real in North America, to the point where I can flip on the TV and I can say Day[9] commentating some games with DJWheat and at 9pm having some sort of SportsCenter talk with iNcontroL, Day[9], NonY, and anybody else(just throwing names out there) and it seems like CatZ has a point in saying that we need to exclusively just stay local and if Koreans want to compete for the money to move over to North America. But then again, that's a really risky decision imo business wise. The reason I think GSL was so successful in the beginning to have GSL as an offline tournament was because the foundation of having Starcraft 2 as a viable e-Sport in South Korea was already planted by the success of Starcraft: Brood War in Korea, so in essence, if I was a CEO in a company, I would look at the success of Starcraft Brood War in Korea and say "Starcraft: Brood War was successful in Korea so investing in Starcraft 2 is a risk I'll be willing to take." But in North America, Starcraft 2 is the Starcraft: Brood War of South Korea(if that makes any sense). That's where I think iNcontroL has a point. I don't know, that is just the way I see things. I think the first few seasons of NASL could be online and once it proves its success(which I'm sure it will), NASL can invest in a bigger studio, accomodate the crowd, and make it an offline tournament in which if Koreans want to participate, come over and live in North America to compete. Just my 2 cents. Great interview. | ||
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Ragoo
Germany2773 Posts
I can't really cheer for the big teams like Real Madrid, Barcelona, Manchester, Inter etc cause they are not from Germany. I exclusively follow the German Bundesliga even tho I know we don't have the best teams here but I can just identify better with the German players, managers, fans and so on. When I watch the CL I admire the really good teams but I don't feel emotionally involved. When German teams compete I cheer for them but it's okay if they lose to teams like Chelsea cause generally they are just better. In the end it matters more for me who won the German championship. I guess many feel the same and in SC2 (especially for the casual viewers) it's very important if you can relate to the players, too (e.g. the German player vs the American player). I wish there were more national leagues like the EPS Germany so every country could have this experience and then we could have a tournament like the CL (and Euroleague) where the best of each national league compete  (yes I'm aware that IEM and WCG is somewhat like a CL, but there is no national league as a qualifier). | ||
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00Visor
4337 Posts
On April 10 2011 08:07 dacthehork wrote: GSL could have had qualifiers online too... not sure what you're point is. "tons of tournaments in NA" you mean I think 6 MLG events? NASL being open to koreans in the first place was probably a bad idea considering the idea of the tournament. The fact is there are NA players with the talent to beat koreans but how many actual team houses do you see with 16 players crammed into a 3 bedroom apartment with a maid doing everything and them playing SC2 all day? The infrastructure is completely diferent and to have them compete against NA players for NA prize money doesnt make any sense if you actually want NA teams to grow. The thing is though 70% of TL and the community basically want NASL to be GSL. Whats the point with GSL qualifiers to be offline? The intention was surely not to keep foreigners out. They are doing a lot to get them in. What the "idea of the NASL"? NASL said they want to get 50 of the best players. The infrastructure in NA and EU will develop. In Europe there are actually already a lot of offline tournaments with quite nice pricepools (with "tons" I was more referring to western e-sports in general). Its really just the two big-ass tournaments TSL and NASL where we have Koreans. And of course fans want to have these tournaments (there are very different to GSL with so many foreigners). | ||
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fadestep
United States605 Posts
On April 10 2011 08:02 iNcontroL wrote: I am no authority on the matter but I can tell you these guys are excited to grow the crap out of the NASL. Obviously offline is the pinnacle of SC2 gaming so yeah I could imagine that occurring just speculating though. I always wonder why gamers have such a fascination with LAN. Sure its cool, but I don't see it as a superior venue. One of the major advantages of eSports is the fact that everybody involved can do it from their own home. I know the experience of meeting others and that type of community building is superior at LAN, but from an actual gameplay/spectator perspective - there isn't really any reason why the top venue shouldn't be online. | ||
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mordk
Chile8385 Posts
I think Catz is wrong, I think getting koreans away from tournaments damages SC2's growth as an e-sport. It makes a lot of people (me, for example  ) much less interested in that particular tourney, it makes competition a lot less fun, it makes it so rivalries and stories of epic feats against korean monsters are impossible.What's more important imo, is that in korea, e-sports is already an acceptable social trend. In the western world, this isn't true. This not only has repercussions socially but also economically. If I were a sponsor, unless I were truly brave and had lots of spare money, I'd have no incentive to put money in e-sports, since no one is gonna watch for fear of becoming nerds or whatever. Having close contact with korean e-sports makes it so that it is a tangible concept, instead of just a dream, to have a society which accepts e-sports as a possibility, making it much easier for people to wrap their minds around, and as such, more acceptable and mainstream. This is what sponsors want, which is a powerful reason for wanting to involve koreans in foreigner gaming. | ||
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mfZOR
Australia49 Posts
Spectators want to cheer for their local heroes but at the same time will cheer hardest when they beat the koreans. Kinda just gotta draw the line between the 2 and hope for the best. | ||
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Gator
United States3432 Posts
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mordk
Chile8385 Posts
On April 10 2011 08:19 Ragoo wrote: Now that I think about it, I think soccer is a very good comparison. I can't really cheer for the big teams like Real Madrid, Barcelona, Manchester, Inter etc cause they are not from Germany. I exclusively follow the German Bundesliga even tho I know we don't have the best teams here but I can just identify better with the German players, managers, fans and so on. When I watch the CL I admire the really good teams but I don't feel emotionally involved. When German teams compete I cheer for them but it's okay if they lose to teams like Chelsea cause generally they are just better. In the end it matters more for me who won the German championship. I guess many feel the same and in SC2 (especially for the casual viewers) it's very important if you can relate to the players, too (e.g. the German player vs the American player). I wish there were more national leagues like the EPS Germany so every country could have this experience and then we could have a tournament like the CL (and Euroleague) where the best of each national league compete (yes I'm aware that IEM and WCG is somewhat like a CL, but there is no national league as a qualifier).Might be a double post, but I feel the need to reply to this. There's no way in the world I feel that I can't relate to the players or teams, if they're not from my country. I'm from Chile. I support a soccer team here. I also support Man U and actually scream in every match and nearly cry every time they lose a big match. I also rage horribly when Jaedong loses to Flash, and I'm definitely not korean. I think there are reasons more powerful than nationality to identify oneself with, and support, a player or a team. | ||
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hugman
Sweden4644 Posts
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Chicane
United States7875 Posts
On April 10 2011 07:53 shire wrote: isn't IGN proleague NA only tournament? why is he bashing on NASL when there's IGN coming up with NA only tournament ? I hope you realize how flawed your logic is... just because there are 2 of a good thing, doesn't mean you can't criticize one for its flaws because the other is better (from his perspective.. I am not actually saying one is better than the other). Why settle for one being worse if you can make them both better with your feedback. | ||
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00Visor
4337 Posts
On April 10 2011 08:31 hugman wrote: I don't think he's wrong in wanting localized leagues and events, but I think those exist. There's MLG, there's the IGN thing and then there are tons of events all over Europe. I think it's good that the NASL has invited Koreans because I want more interaction between the two scenes. Having to play Koreans is not going to put them further ahead skill wise, it's only going to help you. Also, the Koreans seem starved for tournaments outside of the GSL and if the NASL can help SC2 get bigger in Korea as well then that's great. thats my point | ||
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The Icon
Canada111 Posts
On April 10 2011 07:52 iNcontroL wrote: competition starts at 4am korea time 16 man offline final IN USA games are played on NA server (latency favors NA players -> EU -> last korea) Yes it's online. Yes it has "NA" in the title which suggests to some it would only be for NA players.. this is of course not the case (nobody is bitching EU players are invited/involved). Bottom line is 99% of people WANT koreans in every league because they are the best at the moment. I agree with Catz that in order for eSports to grow in the west some exclusivity needs to occur.. I think the NASL does a good job of balancing that while still appeasing the masses. just my 2 cents. I agree with everything you're saying... but I still understand and can empathize with was CatZ is saying. The Koreans invited to compete in NASL can basically treat it like a free lunch. Play online, if you don't do well, who cares you didn't really commit anything extraordinary to it. If you make it to the LAN stage, you're already guaranteed some money. Where if u look like to what it takes to go compete in the Korean tournaments. How long has HuK been over there? And just now he's broken into Code S where he has a chance to earn a paycheck. That's a big commitment with a lot of risk involved. | ||
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Tachion
Canada8573 Posts
Pretty much everyone who has gone to Korea to practice says it made them a better player. Throwing yourself in with the lions will only make you better even faster, because you HAVE to get better in order to succeed in that environment. If you completely shut the NA off from the rest of the world, it's only going to stifle their progress. | ||
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vrok
Sweden2541 Posts
Huge names -> more viewers. More viewers -> bigger sponsors. Bigger sponsors -> more money. How many viewers does Select (Korean LOL) pull in? How many viewers does Idra pull in? You could probably argue that Select is an equal or maybe even better player than Idra. Idra will still bring in more viewers though. That's fact. Additionally, having a player like MC in your tournament means pretty much every SC2 pro-scene-fan out there will in some fashion be exposed to your sponsors at some point. | ||
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