EPTCatZ Discusses Home-Grown NA SC2 Scene - Page 18
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
mdb
Bulgaria4059 Posts
| ||
|
Sethronu
United Kingdom450 Posts
On April 11 2011 01:31 infinity2k9 wrote: Haha what are you basing this on? You say something isn't the truth then give a total opinion as 'proof' of your argument. most SC players are not interesting in interviews and i'm pretty sure if you had interview and game vods seperate you could see an obvious difference. Please tell me where the SC fans are who care more about the other shit than the games? Are they even really SC fans if so? There really is nothing except good players playing good games and maybe commentary (not even thats needed we all cope with Korean when needed and its just as exciting). We watch it for the game. I dunno what the fuck you're watching it for. Some 'drama' between 2 nerds cause one guy once left a game without a gg or something? Before you rage about what I say being untrue, look at how many views & replies the games between Idra and Cruncher had, or how much talk there is about Kitty right now - and this is in a community which is likely to be more focused on the actual game content, the more hardcore community. As long as it's only the people who play the game that will be interested in Starcraft, it won't get big - just like it was with BW. And in order for it to be a real spectator sport, there needs to be more content and more drama, if you will, for it to be exciting. Sure, good games are a linchpin which holds everything together - but if there's nothing else apart from the games, even the fans the game has right now will get bored eventually. Or do you seriously think the crowds that gather to watch Starleague in Seoul are only there to gasp at the amazing Mutalisk micro and hot Reaver drops? Come on. | ||
|
Brian333
657 Posts
Sports leagues like the NBA, MLB, and various European soccer leagues are not regional leagues anymore. They have tons of players from outside their country of competition and a huge international fan base. In this day and age, there is no such thing as a big-time league in an international sport that is regionally locked. The money and infrastructure involved in the NASL makes it a big-time league. SC2 is an international e-sport. As it is, the NASL will still grow e-sports not only in the US, but globally. People should stop treating it like some local KOTH with $1000 on the line and more like how it should be treated, as a world class tournament. Small tournaments help grow regional e-sports in a specific way and big tournaments help grow regional e-sports in a specific way. Stop trying to make the NASL fulfill the role that smaller tournaments should be filling and let it live up to its billing. The way I see it, the NASL is not the MLS. The prize and prestige the tournament is aiming for puts it at a World Cup level of sorts. Would you say that having the World Cup in your country doesn't help the sport of soccer grow natively? But, at the same time, it's not going to grow soccer alone, there needs to be more infrastructure beneath its umbrella to help talent develop. | ||
|
Sein
United States1811 Posts
On April 11 2011 00:13 seaofsaturn wrote: Interesting facts about the amount of salaried Koreans. I think that says a lot. Catz does have a point about the sponsorships though; let's say you're sponsored by Mountain Dew. They are not gonna care about sending you to Korea or Europe because they don't sell Mountain Dew there, and no one is going to buy Mountain Dew there. The same goes for some Korean-only product. So that makes regional growth all the more important. ....You don't think they sell Mountain Dew in SK or Europe? Not to mention PepsiCo sells numerous other products all over the world. I know that you just meant to come up with an example, but there's not a lot of popular products that is US only these days. | ||
|
iSTime
1579 Posts
On April 11 2011 02:48 Sein wrote: ....You don't think they sell Mountain Dew in SK or Europe? Not to mention PepsiCo sells numerous other products all over the world. I know that you just meant to come up with an example, but there's not a lot of popular products that is US only these days. Adding to this point: Isn't GSL sponsored by Mountain Dew? And korean leagues in BW were sponsored by Pringles and Pepsi and such. | ||
|
SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
On April 11 2011 02:37 Sethronu wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 11 2011 01:31 infinity2k9 wrote: Haha what are you basing this on? You say something isn't the truth then give a total opinion as 'proof' of your argument. most SC players are not interesting in interviews and i'm pretty sure if you had interview and game vods seperate you could see an obvious difference. Please tell me where the SC fans are who care more about the other shit than the games? Are they even really SC fans if so? There really is nothing except good players playing good games and maybe commentary (not even thats needed we all cope with Korean when needed and its just as exciting). We watch it for the game. I dunno what the fuck you're watching it for. Some 'drama' between 2 nerds cause one guy once left a game without a gg or something? Before you rage about what I say being untrue, look at how many views & replies the games between Idra and Cruncher had, or how much talk there is about Kitty right now - and this is in a community which is likely to be more focused on the actual game content, the more hardcore community. As long as it's only the people who play the game that will be interested in Starcraft, it won't get big - just like it was with BW. And in order for it to be a real spectator sport, there needs to be more content and more drama, if you will, for it to be exciting. Sure, good games are a linchpin which holds everything together - but if there's nothing else apart from the games, even the fans the game has right now will get bored eventually. Or do you seriously think the crowds that gather to watch Starleague in Seoul are only there to gasp at the amazing Mutalisk micro and hot Reaver drops? Come on. Do you seriously think the crowd that watches the Starleague is there because of the drama? Korean drama? They can like the players, but comparing their players to this drama is a little too far, in my opinion. You can't compare this to the korean starcraft boom and try to recreate it, it won't work. There were many various reason why that happened in Korea. How many people do you know that watch sports but are not into gaming at all that would watch an starcraft event on the internet? I can't really think of anyone, personally. What Starcraft can hope of achieving, at least at first, is tapping into the other gaming communities and getting people to actually play starcraft. It doesn't have to be seriously, casual gamers, team game players, etc, could watch the league, they don't have to be hardcore. Getting someone to drop football to watch a game they won't understand at all it much harder. Sure it seems awesome to hope Starcraft could grow to a point where "all the cool kids are doing it" and girls skip school to watch a nerd bash another nerd in a game, but do you seriously see that happening in our current society? Shouldn't we set some more reasonable goals for the time being? | ||
|
Ocedic
United States1808 Posts
The key difference is that local scenes don't exclude. It is well known that top players (including those from Japan) regularly travel to various parts of the world, from Europe to west coast US to east coast US to Canada. Yes, they dominate and get lots of money from these small local tournaments, but they also help bring attention to these various scenes. People WELCOME the opportunity to meet and play against the top players. Hell, sometimes these top players get beaten by local talent, and that helps put them on the map more. And that's how you get your local region recognized internationally. Instead of spending your time whining and moaning about how the 'system' is so unfair and that Koreans have some non-existent edge, how about you man up, practice hard and get better? Instead of complaining that Koreans are stealing your tournament money, man up and FACE THEM and win. There is NOTHING stopping you from being the top player in the world except for yourself. The self entitled, whiny attitude I see from 'top' North American players is what makes our region a joke compared to Europe/Korea. | ||
|
Longshank
1648 Posts
| ||
|
Retrospecd
259 Posts
just my 2 cents | ||
|
Zlasher
United States9129 Posts
On April 11 2011 02:33 mdb wrote: To me, this guy sounded like he is more worried that some gosu korean will steal his 50k from nasl, rather than that he is concerned about the faith of NA e-sports. Sounds to me like you didn't listen to what he had to say whatsoever, nor his explanations. He basically explained EXACTLY what you're saying. | ||
|
coldonthecob
47 Posts
I respect Catz's argument about growing regional esports, but there are a plethora of small online tourneys and even lans for that. Catz seems to want an easy ride to a nice fat paycheck.. no offense thats just how he comes across to me. I don't like that kind of attitude from programmers. If you don't have the thirst to be playing the best in the world and competing at the highest level, then imo you have no business competing in the big events like NASL. This sense of entitlement coming from some NA players is not healthy for competitive SC2. Catz, if you are scared of Koreans taking your prize checks then you damn well practice your ass off until you can compete with them.. if you still can't beat them then too bad, you aren't good enough. | ||
|
Blackk
South Africa226 Posts
| ||
|
Argolis
Canada211 Posts
| ||
|
applejuice
307 Posts
As a fan, I just want to see the best damn players duke it out for big money. I don't care where it happens, or who they are, just let me see some damn good competition. This "growing e-sports in the west" crap has got to stop. We watch e-sports over the internet! It doesn't matter where it happens! Why, as a fan, would you support "subsidizing" foreigner players when all it will result in is less exciting play? Doesn't make sense. From a player's perspective, yes, it makes sense. But players should realize that their wants and desires are not the same as the fan's - and not release vids like this. | ||
|
SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
On April 11 2011 05:35 Argolis wrote: I was thinking of starting a baseball league in my hometown. I guess I should invite the yankees to come play against us. Only makes sense according to the logic in this thread. Are you promoting it as the biggest league in the world, with the best players in the world, and paying the biggest prizes in the world? (Or second) If so, maybe the Yankees would play in your league. | ||
|
coldonthecob
47 Posts
On April 11 2011 05:35 Argolis wrote: I was thinking of starting a baseball league in my hometown. I guess I should invite the yankees to come play against us. Only makes sense according to the logic in this thread. NASL has a ridiculous prize pool with a huge investment from sponsors etc. It is the equivalent to MLB, so your comparison doesn't make much sense. | ||
|
Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
There needs to be a global structure to this "new" eSport and it should start at the bottom. Tournament formats, casting vocabulary (*1) and so on need to be standardized. Lastly I think the tournaments might be organized in different tiers and the TL "Big event tracker" is a first step (*2) The NASL and its ridiculous prize pool is aiming for the big stars and it is good that way, asking people to live in the US to compete in it is unreasonable because the huge prize pool requires Koreans atm. There might come a time when there actually are enough players willing and able to move to the US, but since the NASL season is MUCH longer than the GSL it is unreasonable to expect people to move over there for such a relatively small amount of games played (everyone plays one match per week, right?). Housing and food and whatever has to be financed by the player after all. (*1) For Tennis there is the "game, set and match" vocabulary, but all of these three words are used by different SC2 casters for different meanings. The german (plus Rotterdam) casters also refer to a Maynard transfer as a "slide", which is a word used for a different meaning by english casters. (*2) Maybe the entries for big events could get a different background color in the event calendar so they are easily discernible? | ||
|
Deadlyfish
Denmark1980 Posts
The games are just that more exciting when you feel connected to a player and not just his gameplay. Bit offtopic, but still, that's one of the reasons i dont want too many Koreans in the league. Edit: I cannot write properly today, at all -.- | ||
|
firalol
United States51 Posts
| ||
|
kaileah
171 Posts
On April 11 2011 05:54 Deadlyfish wrote: If Koreans started really BMing and showing some personality i'd actually love to have them in the NASL. The reason i love NA (and EU) players is because they have some personality. (they dont need to BM, but just have a bit more personality) The games are just that more exciting when you feel connected to a player and not just his gameplay. Bit offtopic, but still, that's one of the reasons i dont want too many Koreans in the league. It may be a cultural thing, but i just find western players to have a lot more charisma, and they're games are just more exciting, and not because the actual games are better. did you not see ogs zenio backhand idra as a celebration after eliminating him? ogs mc being borderline arrogant / cocky / pissing on everyone else? ogs ensnare getting mad because idra called him a faggot? clide v idra bm wars? (insert more anti-idra sentiment). MarineKingPrime versus MVP? Genius pissing on fruitdealer by putting him into the 4gate group of death? theres a lot of bming and drama in gsl if you follow the scene. a lot of personality. personally, i think i know more about the korean's personalities than the foreigners. | ||
| ||
