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On March 13 2011 15:11 eveo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2011 11:57 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:On March 13 2011 11:50 eveo wrote:On March 12 2011 11:56 Looky wrote:
why is blizzard so bad and creating anti hack. even iccup stopped most of it. You cannot prevent cheating, simply put. hon can pretty much. not saying their system would work for other games cause i dont know that. but they did a awesome job to prevent cheating. You don't understand the in's and out's of hacking, you cannot prevent it. You can prevent it to a degree but you will never prevent cheating 100%.
Using a server model like HoN/S2 games does prevent it
only sending the information the player needs, or a slightly larger radius than line of sight does prevent maphacking.
Blizz is way behind the times and only falling further behind, Dota 2 will feature the same server side model for Dota 2.
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On March 13 2011 20:02 dacthehork wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2011 15:11 eveo wrote:On March 13 2011 11:57 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:On March 13 2011 11:50 eveo wrote:On March 12 2011 11:56 Looky wrote:
why is blizzard so bad and creating anti hack. even iccup stopped most of it. You cannot prevent cheating, simply put. hon can pretty much. not saying their system would work for other games cause i dont know that. but they did a awesome job to prevent cheating. You don't understand the in's and out's of hacking, you cannot prevent it. You can prevent it to a degree but you will never prevent cheating 100%. Using a server model like HoN/S2 games does prevent it only sending the information the player needs, or a slightly larger radius than line of sight does prevent maphacking. Blizz is way behind the times and only falling further behind, Dota 2 will feature the same server side model for Dota 2.
Sorry but I must LOL at this statement. Nothing is hack proof with the right motivation. Any real hacker can give a shit about some cloud setup. If hackers really wanted to you couldn't post here. Don't ever be mistaken about that. <3
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Kyrgyz Republic1462 Posts
Using the HoN network model is not as easy as it seems, you don't have hundreds of units going into the vision all of a sudden in HoN. Applied to SC2 it would result in a very spikey traffic pattern and would probably really suck for people with poor connections.
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On March 13 2011 20:12 Random() wrote:
Using the HoN network model is not as easy as it seems, you don't have hundreds of units going into the vision all of a sudden in HoN. Applied to SC2 it would result in a very spikey traffic pattern and would probably really suck for people with poor connections.
yeah true the current model of star2 already has this issue without the cloud setup. I honestly don't believe warden hasn't worked in the past 2 years or so. If it did then half the hacks that cross Blizzard servers would get caught if it worked as they advertise but alas things liek this happen. I really believe Blizzard promotes more of a community effort to stop known hackers and it really benefits them as company. So in short they do this on purpose. It's all good. At least the people behind this particular account came clean with their behavoir rather than denying and abusing what they did more.
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Just wanted to hear some opinions on what I've been thinking about after reading this thread.
If Blizzard doesn't devise an effective anti-hack system, would the scene wither away? I mean, if everything is centralized to Blizzard, there wouldn't really be a possibility of an ICCUP type of gateway or am I just completely wrong T_T?
It's too soon for hacks to be readily available for use T_T Is there even a completely hack-proof ladder?
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When was the Masterleague introduced into 2v2 play? Never noticed anything in the patch notes.. or were they playing on the PTR?
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On March 13 2011 20:38 ThePurist wrote:
Just wanted to hear some opinions on what I've been thinking about after reading this thread.
If Blizzard doesn't devise an effective anti-hack system, would the scene wither away? I mean, if everything is centralized to Blizzard, there wouldn't really be a possibility of an ICCUP type of gateway or am I just completely wrong T_T?
It's too soon for hacks to be readily available for use T_T Is there even a completely hack-proof ladder?
Nope just report hackers since that is the policy and they will get investigated and banned if they are cheating. Sure people can make zero day hacks but if the community is on top of it then the cheaters will just fade with their 60+ dollar investment. Community police community. 
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On March 13 2011 20:02 dacthehork wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2011 15:11 eveo wrote:On March 13 2011 11:57 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:On March 13 2011 11:50 eveo wrote:On March 12 2011 11:56 Looky wrote:
why is blizzard so bad and creating anti hack. even iccup stopped most of it. You cannot prevent cheating, simply put. hon can pretty much. not saying their system would work for other games cause i dont know that. but they did a awesome job to prevent cheating. You don't understand the in's and out's of hacking, you cannot prevent it. You can prevent it to a degree but you will never prevent cheating 100%. Using a server model like HoN/S2 games does prevent it only sending the information the player needs, or a slightly larger radius than line of sight does prevent maphacking. Blizz is way behind the times and only falling further behind, Dota 2 will feature the same server side model for Dota 2.
But SC2 is also not a DOTA clone, what may be possible for one may cause additional problems for the others. The amount of information is definately diferent, doing that may affect latency or bring any number of other problems. Doesn't HoN even lack replays?
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people really dont knopw what they are talking about
hon is pretty hack proof because EVEN IF IT GETS HACKED the player doesnt have the data to really exploit with a map hack.
The tradeoff is that you have to wait for ages before you can dl the replay because you have to wait for the server to generate it.
HON has replays.
Its the sam with all secuiryt .. you cannot have anything ecure ... so you mitigate the risks. I am apalled that blizzard send both players all the data ... that is so 1998.
If you send people information they would be dumb not to use it. Moreover there would be better performance latency wise if they didnt send all of the data.
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Just let blizzard ban him when they do their next ban wave. If you want to add him to the TL hacker database, thats cool, but this thread is kinda crazy. Blizzard bans hackers. Yes, not immediately, but if hes hacking, the next wave will get him.
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On March 13 2011 20:50 Baarn wrote:Nope just report hackers since that is the policy and they will get investigated and banned if they are cheating. Sure people can make zero day hacks but if the community is on top of it then the cheaters will just fade with their 60+ dollar investment. Community police community.
You can't be serious...
There is no way in hell anyone would have the time to "investigate" all the reports considering if you're half-way decent you'll get reported for maphacking by every noob around at least 5 times a day.
Mob rule used to burn witches you know...
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On March 13 2011 19:57 Whizon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2011 13:33 RandomRice wrote:On March 13 2011 05:42 PainUser wrote:
IGware entered into a local LAN tournament at Berkeley in the San Francisco Bay Area. Proceeded to knock me and Axslav out in the first and second rounds of the tournament. The tournament organizers let him play from his dorm room if I'm not mistaken because he was a Berkeley student and there "weren't enough computers"? Several "friends" of his messaged me saying that Sorcery was infact playing on his account from another location and that he had been cheating the entire time. Really low stuff it's funny to see this thread after the fact. I feel I need to clarify some things. I was one of the tournament organizers for this event. I allowed igware to compete from his home on the condition that he attends in person for the semi-finals (eventually, he did not comply with this condition). He told me that he lives quite a distance away from Berkeley and had some business that he needed to take care of during the time of our tournament. I did not think too much about it and permitted it under the promise that he would show up in person eventually to our event. I was not aware that he allowed Sorcery to play on his account, nor was I aware of Sorcery's history of hacking... I am relatively new to the Starcraft community and want to be a positive contribution to the community. However, my lack of experience with setting up these events has allowed this to happen and I am very upset that this kind of affair is now associated with one of my first event =/ I promise that future events will have more strict regulations with players to prevent these kind of things happening again... I think it's a good thing you clarified this. No one can do anything perfect from the start when they first do something, like organizing a tournament. This happening, shows you learned from it. And you're honest about it. That's awesome in my opinion. Hackers/cheaters exist, and that's a fact. It's a shame that they knocked out people from a tournament in the past, but you're making the gesture that you don't want stuff like that to happen again in the future. I wish everyone could be as constructive as this. http://www.eslcafe.com/jobs/korea/I feel the thread served its purpose, and it sucks to see people saying "once a cheater, always a cheater" kind of stuff. Cheaters only fool themselves in the end. TT1 is the living proof of the fact that stealing once doesn't make you a thief for life. Having a certain feeling for justice myself, it gives me a first feeling David Zhu and Josh Price should be banned for ever, or whatever punishment others have brought up in this thread. But really, give them a chance. Because that first feeling is a load of crap that doesn't ever help anything get better as a whole. The fact that cheating in this game isn't going to work out doesn't mean they are bad players for the rest of their lives. But they very well could be on the other hand. Who knows? Time will tell. If they fail at SC2, no one will notice anyway, and they will move on to another game, be it cheating or not. If they succeed at SC2, people will be proven wrong. So where's that crystal sphere again that allows me to see the actual future, instead of mindlessly filling it in in my brain?
The problem here is that this is not the first offense for either of these guys.
Sorcery (Josh Price)is an infamous hacker (LastHitMagic) from DotA: http://nadota.com/articles/121--the-controversial-case-of-map-hack
iGware (David Zhu) played in csl despite having already graduated and this caused the team he played for to be punished for it.
Also, iGware entered a local LAN tournament, deceived the organizers to let him play at home so that Sorcery can play in his place, and Sorcery most likely maphacked then as well considering he beat PainUser and Axslav on his way to the semifinals where he eventually got disqualified.
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On March 14 2011 01:30 Sein wrote:The problem here is that this is not the first offense for either of these guys. Sorcery (Josh Price)is an infamous hacker (LastHitMagic) from DotA: http://nadota.com/articles/121--the-controversial-case-of-map-hackiGware (David Zhu) played in csl despite having already graduated and this caused the team he played for to be punished for it. Also, iGware entered a local LAN tournament, deceived the organizers to let him play at home so that Sorcery can play in his place, and Sorcery most likely maphacked then as well considering he beat PainUser and Axslav on his way to the semifinals where he eventually got disqualified.
Exactly, it was a pretty big letdown when Sorcery was caught hacking in DOTA as he was known as the best ganker in North America at the time. For him to let down his friends and even possibly a few fans AGAIN is too much to forgive. I was great to run into him on ladder from time to time and seeing him do so well, at least in 2v2. But from now on, if he ever resurfaces in the gaming world any achievement he has will have an asterisk next to it.
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On March 13 2011 19:57 Whizon wrote:
Having a certain feeling for justice myself, it gives me a first feeling David Zhu and Josh Price should be banned for ever, or whatever punishment others have brought up in this thread. But really, give them a chance. Because that first feeling is a load of crap that doesn't ever help anything get better as a whole. The fact that cheating in this game isn't going to work out doesn't mean they are bad players for the rest of their lives. But they very well could be on the other hand. Who knows? Time will tell. If they fail at SC2, no one will notice anyway, and they will move on to another game, be it cheating or not. If they succeed at SC2, people will be proven wrong.
They've evidently already been given second and possibly third chances, since they were caught cheating in the past. They don't deserve more.
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On March 13 2011 22:58 C5Five wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2011 20:50 Baarn wrote:Nope just report hackers since that is the policy and they will get investigated and banned if they are cheating. Sure people can make zero day hacks but if the community is on top of it then the cheaters will just fade with their 60+ dollar investment. Community police community. You can't be serious... There is no way in hell anyone would have the time to "investigate" all the reports considering if you're half-way decent you'll get reported for maphacking by every noob around at least 5 times a day. Mob rule used to burn witches you know...
Exactly, im usually told that im hacker at least 1 at day and im top 200 NA, so i guess that they report me every time if everything goes on and hackers start pumping there will be eventually a ladder like ICCUP otherwise the game will die
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WTF why do i randomly always get mentioned in these threads
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On March 14 2011 03:20 TT1 wrote:
WTF why do i randomly always get mentioned in these threads
LOL
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On March 14 2011 03:20 TT1 wrote:
WTF why do i randomly always get mentioned in these threads
Forgiven but not forgotten, I suppose.
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On March 14 2011 03:20 TT1 wrote:
WTF why do i randomly always get mentioned in these threads
I doubt it is ever gonna stop :/ Even if you become the best legitimate player in the world there will always be someone to shit on your parade by saying "But see even TT1 cheated".
And with TSL3 comming up/the mention in SOTG more people are aware and likley to bring it up.
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No one is shitting on him by any means. Nobody says his name like he's the bad guy; it's just he's the only notable player in recent times that has a back story similar to cases like this: someone is doing really good and it turned out they hacked. Testie's time is a far away now and who else are we gonna compare to, fucking Lastshadow?
We mentioned you because we're glad of what you did and we love you
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EPT
