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On January 31 2011 01:56 Sein wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2011 23:31 FXOpen wrote:On January 30 2011 23:17 LetoAtreides82 wrote:
That's a bit embarrassing. The results make it look like the only way foreigners can get in is if they are given a special pass.
Top 192 in korea vs myself, who plays maybe 8 games a week....... Laneir who is a manager (and I beat 2-0). There were limited spots, I have no doubt that 3/4 of the seeded players would have gotten through, its just more gaurenteed if its done this way. Plenty of players from NA and europe could have challenged for the top spots. But really, can't be upset losing to a top 192 player from Korea.. I honestly dont think anyone in the whole net cafe had APM under 200, and everyone was very good. 80% of players had oGs or MVP jackets on... Your comment makes a bit upset actually just because it is kind of obvious that you don't know exactly whats going on and the processes of GSL.. Spades lost to a guy in TSL, you know the same team as Julyzerg? august? And the guy did a hybrid strategy which none of us had seen before. Like... grr. Hey, I wish you and the rest of your team best of luck in Korea, but your "192 vs 6" argument doesn't really work because qualifying for Code A isn't a random drawing and everything is 1v1. If those players are good enough, and they are consistent like you said yourself, they will make it in. They weren't the very best in the foreigner scene, but do note that around roughly 60 best Koreans weren't there either because they already have code S or A spots. July is in ST, not TSL. I also think that APM 200 and 80% oGs or MVP thing is a bit of an exaggeration because not that many people in Code S and A have over 200 average APM while oGs and MVP don't have that many people. Well, I guess they could just have been wearing those jackets. I hope this post didn't upset you because I didn't mean to, but I can come off as a bit too frank for my own good sometimes. I think it's awesome that you guys are there trying for GSL and I would be happy to see any of those guys who failed to qualify this time have more success next time around.
Watching carefoot's stream, it seems there were tons of people wearing oGs jackets. I remember hearing that not all members live in the team house. I think they have a large group.
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On January 31 2011 01:55 Omnipresent wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2011 01:36 shannn wrote:On January 31 2011 01:21 Adeeler wrote:
They are making a tonne if not most of there income from foreigner subscriptions, they don't even need sponsors they could foot the whole bill themselves for the next 2 years with the subscription money they have gotten so far.
Giving foreign players seeds into Code A is a good thing for them financially. But its a bad thing 'morally' as Korean Code A had to earn there spots and any foreign seed didn't earn there spot regardless if we think they deserve one due to their skill.
The better option would be to do a massive league system to get into Code.A then at least random luck wouldn't keep good players out and the overall quality would be better; at least in theory.
I think the seeding thing is a good thing for boosting the scene overall though as if the best players willing to go to korea go then there will be more chances for new players to rise up and get noticed. This may be true but they are doing it this way because of the possibility of a similar scenario as in BW. Koreans outgrew the foreigners in skill and the top foreigners just couldn't compete consistently with the top Korean players. There's no way to substantiate this, but it makes little sense on its face. If their goal was to encourage foreigners to get better, why pick players already living in Korea, practicing with Korean teams, and (in the case of Ret) players who have already participated in Code A?
Isn't it already obvious?
They'd have to invite 4 foreigners who need to be 100% sure to come to Korea and in less than 2 weeks to arrange everything. Sure there is a GOM house but they don't have computers and such.
If you want to get invited then get to Korea first. There is no point in inviting someone who isn't sure to come.
The invited players are ALREADY in Korea. Look at moonglade. I bet that the majority didn't see that invite coming. But why would he be invited? Well he's already in Korea and he's been performing top200 in KR and I don't see any other foreigner in Korea that is performing well on the ladder besides those who got invited.
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i dont understand, they're giving 4 code A spots to foreigners, u people are making it sound like they're giving away the GSL code S championship trophy for free or something.
why do they do it? to attract more people to follow code A tournaments. its a business decision for sure, but its not like they're giving them out to random scrubs who happen to not be korean.
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On January 31 2011 02:07 zev318 wrote:
i dont understand, they're giving 4 code A spots to foreigners, u people are making it sound like they're giving away the GSL code S championship trophy for free or something.
why do they do it? to attract more people to follow code A tournaments. its a business decision for sure, but its not like they're giving them out to random scrubs who happen to not be korean.
Not only that, but I think everybody should have the understanding there is a sacrifice to go to the gsl. It's not some online event where hundreds of foreigners would compete with hundreds of Koreans and the best would remain standing to take those 16 spots. It takes a commitment to go to Korea just to compete, and it's not easy for people if they lose 1 month to just say "oh well, I'll come back next qualification for another shot."
While it might not be "fair" that people automatically got seeded into code A, I have no problem with the situation. If they want foreign participation and whatnot, Gom needs to throw a bone to the community. That's what they've done and I applaud them for continuing to reach out to us.
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Golf tournaments and Track and Field events always give sponsor exemptions and/or appearance fees to players they want to play.
I see the 4 foreigners getting seeded into Code A to be a very similar situation to the Golf/Track and Field thing.
You want to increase foreign viewers, you assure some foreign players are available for them to watch.
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On January 31 2011 02:07 shannn wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2011 01:55 Omnipresent wrote:On January 31 2011 01:36 shannn wrote:On January 31 2011 01:21 Adeeler wrote:
They are making a tonne if not most of there income from foreigner subscriptions, they don't even need sponsors they could foot the whole bill themselves for the next 2 years with the subscription money they have gotten so far.
Giving foreign players seeds into Code A is a good thing for them financially. But its a bad thing 'morally' as Korean Code A had to earn there spots and any foreign seed didn't earn there spot regardless if we think they deserve one due to their skill.
The better option would be to do a massive league system to get into Code.A then at least random luck wouldn't keep good players out and the overall quality would be better; at least in theory.
I think the seeding thing is a good thing for boosting the scene overall though as if the best players willing to go to korea go then there will be more chances for new players to rise up and get noticed. This may be true but they are doing it this way because of the possibility of a similar scenario as in BW. Koreans outgrew the foreigners in skill and the top foreigners just couldn't compete consistently with the top Korean players. There's no way to substantiate this, but it makes little sense on its face. If their goal was to encourage foreigners to get better, why pick players already living in Korea, practicing with Korean teams, and (in the case of Ret) players who have already participated in Code A? Isn't it already obvious? They'd have to invite 4 foreigners who need to be 100% sure to come to Korea and in less than 2 weeks to arrange everything. Sure there is a GOM house but they don't have computers and such. If you want to get invited then get to Korea first. There is no point in inviting someone who isn't sure to come. The invited players are ALREADY in Korea. Look at moonglade. I bet that the majority didn't see that invite coming. But why would he be invited? Well he's already in Korea and he's been performing top200 in KR and I don't see any other foreigner in Korea that is performing well on the ladder besides those who got invited.
wasn't SeleCt in korea already? i would have prefered him getting an invitation, I think he could do better than moonglade, and we would have a terran foreigner invited, so the races were more even (maybe SeleCt doesn't count as a foreigner for them? :S)
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On January 31 2011 02:15 Nobu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2011 02:07 shannn wrote:On January 31 2011 01:55 Omnipresent wrote:On January 31 2011 01:36 shannn wrote:On January 31 2011 01:21 Adeeler wrote:
They are making a tonne if not most of there income from foreigner subscriptions, they don't even need sponsors they could foot the whole bill themselves for the next 2 years with the subscription money they have gotten so far.
Giving foreign players seeds into Code A is a good thing for them financially. But its a bad thing 'morally' as Korean Code A had to earn there spots and any foreign seed didn't earn there spot regardless if we think they deserve one due to their skill.
The better option would be to do a massive league system to get into Code.A then at least random luck wouldn't keep good players out and the overall quality would be better; at least in theory.
I think the seeding thing is a good thing for boosting the scene overall though as if the best players willing to go to korea go then there will be more chances for new players to rise up and get noticed. This may be true but they are doing it this way because of the possibility of a similar scenario as in BW. Koreans outgrew the foreigners in skill and the top foreigners just couldn't compete consistently with the top Korean players. There's no way to substantiate this, but it makes little sense on its face. If their goal was to encourage foreigners to get better, why pick players already living in Korea, practicing with Korean teams, and (in the case of Ret) players who have already participated in Code A? Isn't it already obvious? They'd have to invite 4 foreigners who need to be 100% sure to come to Korea and in less than 2 weeks to arrange everything. Sure there is a GOM house but they don't have computers and such. If you want to get invited then get to Korea first. There is no point in inviting someone who isn't sure to come. The invited players are ALREADY in Korea. Look at moonglade. I bet that the majority didn't see that invite coming. But why would he be invited? Well he's already in Korea and he's been performing top200 in KR and I don't see any other foreigner in Korea that is performing well on the ladder besides those who got invited. wasn't SeleCt in korea already? i would have prefered him getting an invitation, I think he could do better than moonglade, and we would have a terran foreigner invited, so the races were more even (maybe SeleCt doesn't count as a foreigner for them? :S)
Select went back to the U.S.
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On January 31 2011 02:12 Pudge_172 wrote:
Golf tournaments and Track and Field events always give sponsor exemptions and/or appearance fees to players they want to play.
I see the 4 foreigners getting seeded into Code A to be a very similar situation to the Golf/Track and Field thing.
You want to increase foreign viewers, you assure some foreign players are available for them to watch.
Untrue, please look at players games
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On January 31 2011 02:15 Nobu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2011 02:07 shannn wrote:On January 31 2011 01:55 Omnipresent wrote:On January 31 2011 01:36 shannn wrote:On January 31 2011 01:21 Adeeler wrote:
They are making a tonne if not most of there income from foreigner subscriptions, they don't even need sponsors they could foot the whole bill themselves for the next 2 years with the subscription money they have gotten so far.
Giving foreign players seeds into Code A is a good thing for them financially. But its a bad thing 'morally' as Korean Code A had to earn there spots and any foreign seed didn't earn there spot regardless if we think they deserve one due to their skill.
The better option would be to do a massive league system to get into Code.A then at least random luck wouldn't keep good players out and the overall quality would be better; at least in theory.
I think the seeding thing is a good thing for boosting the scene overall though as if the best players willing to go to korea go then there will be more chances for new players to rise up and get noticed. This may be true but they are doing it this way because of the possibility of a similar scenario as in BW. Koreans outgrew the foreigners in skill and the top foreigners just couldn't compete consistently with the top Korean players. There's no way to substantiate this, but it makes little sense on its face. If their goal was to encourage foreigners to get better, why pick players already living in Korea, practicing with Korean teams, and (in the case of Ret) players who have already participated in Code A? Isn't it already obvious? They'd have to invite 4 foreigners who need to be 100% sure to come to Korea and in less than 2 weeks to arrange everything. Sure there is a GOM house but they don't have computers and such. If you want to get invited then get to Korea first. There is no point in inviting someone who isn't sure to come. The invited players are ALREADY in Korea. Look at moonglade. I bet that the majority didn't see that invite coming. But why would he be invited? Well he's already in Korea and he's been performing top200 in KR and I don't see any other foreigner in Korea that is performing well on the ladder besides those who got invited. wasn't SeleCt in korea already? i would have prefered him getting an invitation, I think he could do better than moonglade, and we would have a terran foreigner invited, so the races were more even (maybe SeleCt doesn't count as a foreigner for them? :S)
I thought SeleCt is in the US for studies. He did try to participate for GSL3 I think though.
Not sure how his conditions are now whether or not he can try GSL.
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On January 31 2011 02:16 hmsrenown wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2011 02:12 Pudge_172 wrote:
Golf tournaments and Track and Field events always give sponsor exemptions and/or appearance fees to players they want to play.
I see the 4 foreigners getting seeded into Code A to be a very similar situation to the Golf/Track and Field thing.
You want to increase foreign viewers, you assure some foreign players are available for them to watch. Untrue, please look at players games
I have no idea what you mean.
edit: Are you trying to tell people to cheer for players only based 100% on their play skill and things they've shown during games, and nothing else? lol, good luck with that if that's what you're getting at.
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On January 31 2011 02:16 hmsrenown wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2011 02:12 Pudge_172 wrote:
Golf tournaments and Track and Field events always give sponsor exemptions and/or appearance fees to players they want to play.
I see the 4 foreigners getting seeded into Code A to be a very similar situation to the Golf/Track and Field thing.
You want to increase foreign viewers, you assure some foreign players are available for them to watch. Untrue, please look at players games
I have no idea what you mean as you made no sense with this post.
Foreign viewers do tune in more to watch foreign players, just as more viewers tune in to watch a golf tournament that has Tiger Woods in it or a T&F event that has whoever is the top T&F person at the time who wouldn't attend without their $20,000 appearance fee.
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So - Moonglade is living in the GOM foreigner house alone? All other Code A invitees are living in the oGs-TL house.
Or do the guys who tried to qualify (but failed) live in the house? If so, how long are they allowed to stay?
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Vancouver14381 Posts
On January 31 2011 02:29 Zocat wrote:
So - Moonglade is living in the GOM foreigner house alone? All other Code A invitees are living in the oGs-TL house.
Or do the guys who tried to qualify (but failed) live in the house? If so, how long are they allowed to stay?
I think Torch is also at the foreigner house along with John? He won't be alone.
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On January 30 2011 23:31 FXOpen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2011 23:17 LetoAtreides82 wrote:That's a bit embarrassing. The results make it look like the  Only  Way foreigners can get in is if they are given a Special pass. Like... grr.
wait, wait, are you trying to say Grrrr... is playing in this GSL? (or trying to at any rate?) 
and yet all of those players are in Code S still...........
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I dont understand why people should be allowed to pick their opponents? this allows people shamelessly abuse this and pick people who are no challenge and thus makes the whole tournament meaningless.
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On January 31 2011 01:56 Sein wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2011 23:31 FXOpen wrote:On January 30 2011 23:17 LetoAtreides82 wrote:
That's a bit embarrassing. The results make it look like the only way foreigners can get in is if they are given a special pass.
Top 192 in korea vs myself, who plays maybe 8 games a week....... Laneir who is a manager (and I beat 2-0). There were limited spots, I have no doubt that 3/4 of the seeded players would have gotten through, its just more gaurenteed if its done this way. Plenty of players from NA and europe could have challenged for the top spots. But really, can't be upset losing to a top 192 player from Korea.. I honestly dont think anyone in the whole net cafe had APM under 200, and everyone was very good. 80% of players had oGs or MVP jackets on... Your comment makes a bit upset actually just because it is kind of obvious that you don't know exactly whats going on and the processes of GSL.. Spades lost to a guy in TSL, you know the same team as Julyzerg? august? And the guy did a hybrid strategy which none of us had seen before. Like... grr. Hey, I wish you and the rest of your team best of luck in Korea, but your "192 vs 6" argument doesn't really work because qualifying for Code A isn't a random drawing and everything is 1v1. If those players are good enough, and they are consistent like you said yourself, they will make it in. They weren't the very best in the foreigner scene, but do note that around roughly 60 best Koreans weren't there either because they already have code S or A spots. July is in ST, not TSL. I also think that APM 200 and 80% oGs or MVP thing is a bit of an exaggeration because not that many people in Code S and A have over 200 average APM while oGs and MVP don't have that many people. Well, I guess they could just have been wearing those jackets. I hope this post didn't upset you because I didn't mean to, but I can come off as a bit too frank for my own good sometimes. I think it's awesome that you guys are there trying for GSL and I would be happy to see any of those guys who failed to qualify this time have more success next time around.
He's not making a top 192 vs 6 argument. He's making a top 192 vs. a lower-caliber player argument. He's saying top 192 in Korea is a lot better than him and therefore he wasn't likely to make it. Also, these foreginers weren't anywhere near the a good representation of the foreigner scene. I don't think most people expected any of them to make it.
200 apm is also embarrassingly for a Korean progamer. I don't doubt that virtually everyone had at least 200 apm. Even most Korean amateurs have 200 apm.
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GSL rep talking about IdrA: "If he got cheese rush...he f*** you and close...I like this"
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They qualified so whats your point?
They didn't get a free pass.
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On January 31 2011 02:22 Pudge_172 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2011 02:16 hmsrenown wrote:On January 31 2011 02:12 Pudge_172 wrote:
Golf tournaments and Track and Field events always give sponsor exemptions and/or appearance fees to players they want to play.
I see the 4 foreigners getting seeded into Code A to be a very similar situation to the Golf/Track and Field thing.
You want to increase foreign viewers, you assure some foreign players are available for them to watch. Untrue, please look at players games I have no idea what you mean as you made no sense with this post. Foreign viewers do tune in more to watch foreign players, just as more viewers tune in to watch a golf tournament that has Tiger Woods in it or a T&F event that has whoever is the top T&F person at the time who wouldn't attend without their $20,000 appearance fee.
Could you just please compare the skill level of an average code A player to these guys? please please please?
And if they REALLY want more foreign viewers, they would throw invitation to BIG NAMES in NA/EU, they would, for example, throw a tourney with prize money for foreigners to compete for reserved slots, they would also, for example, extend invitation to fan favourites outside of Korea regardless of their current play.
On January 31 2011 02:18 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
I have no idea what you mean.
edit: Are you trying to tell people to cheer for players only based 100% on their play skill and things they've shown during games, and nothing else? lol, good luck with that if that's what you're getting at.
I meant this is not Gold or Track&field, people get invitation based on merit not popularity among sponsorship/viewership
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EPT
