sc2 skill, learned vs natural - Page 5

danielsan

Romania399 Posts

January 04 2011 12:10 GMT

#81

On January 04 2011 21:03 Navane wrote:
Ladder position != skill. They probably only trained a very narrow set of moves.

i asked that 1 or 2 pages back but nobody seems to answer..

BouBou.865

Netherlands814 Posts

January 04 2011 12:12 GMT

#82

No RTS experience, 70 games and I hit platinum. It's nothing special, heh.

Highwinds

Canada955 Posts

January 04 2011 12:12 GMT

#83

This was my first RTS that I played since I was 8 (Now 18).

I didn't have the beta but I watched tons of Day9 Dailies and HD/Husky Starcraft Videos.

I got into Diamond pretty easily within 100 games. I was placed into Silver but I pretty much rolled over everyone.

When I hit Platinum I went something like 20-1 for my games and got into Diamond.

Alphasquad

Austria505 Posts

January 04 2011 12:27 GMT

#84

in my experience there are 3 groups of players in rts: more or less natural talented, raw diamonds who are quite lost early but grow strong when taught properly and finally those who just seem to have no strategical mind and stay low all the time - basically its the same as in real sports

samuraibael

Australia294 Posts

January 04 2011 12:27 GMT

#85

"Natural talent" is the black box that conceals all the hours of actions, rts playing or otherwise, that contributed to our current skill level. They are one and the same.

Kelekkis

Finland27 Posts

January 04 2011 12:30 GMT

#86

When I started playing sc2 in the second phase of beta I was pretty much immediately in diamond. My only previous "real" rts exprience is from wc3 with about 200 games, and some other games in LAN. Something like dota could have helped me with map awareness because I used to play it alot, and you had to all the time know whos missing etc. (atleast in public). Started playing zerg and I pretty much never do cheeses or early-game all-ins, and after 500 1v1 ladder games, I am ~2,5k diamond, but if I would calculate all my games together (custom 1v1, team games, beta games etc.) I would probably have like 1,5k games played.

Before I watched bw pro games, and read forums. Might be also that other games from different genres can help with starcraft skill. Everything helps I guess.

Deadlyhazard

United States1177 Posts

January 04 2011 12:33 GMT

#87

I don't think it's luck. To succeed in this game you also have to have knowledge of strategies. If you read the strategy forums, look at your mistakes from previous replays, and practice hard, you should be in diamond no time.

Reminds me of painting....I remember my first painting class someone said they didn't have natural talent and just gave up at the end of the semester. Yet the people that actually pushed did fine....you can't be lazy. I don't even know if natural talent exists...some people have more aptitude than others but that must be linked to early nurtured development. Maybe it's based on early experiences in life versus something you were naturally born with.

For example, I've been playing video games religiously since I was 5 years old. I started at that age with Doom 2, Quake, Duke Nukem 3D, and WarCraft 2. Now I'm probably going into concept design because I have a crazy imagination due to my childhood of playing games all the time and reading, I just lack the fundamentals to communicate it with art...which is why I'm going to school for it soon.

danielsan

Romania399 Posts

January 04 2011 12:41 GMT

#88

This forum feels like Round Earth Society really. No matter what you ask, people will just write something totally unrelated. Some personal experience translated to a general rule most of the time. The other is fun to read though because it's talented trolls having fun, this is just plain annoying.

flodeskum

Iceland1267 Posts

January 04 2011 12:54 GMT

#89

I've been reading lately about people who claim to have gotten into Diamond within their first 50-80 games without previous RTS experience and I am trying to figure out of it's just me who is really horribad or if these people are lying.

Sc2 was the first rts I ever played online, I got placed in gold and got into diamond fairly quick (~60 games IIRC).

I really think a lot of rts skill, or gaming skill in general, is natural. Before sc2 I had played CS and poker semi-professionally to pay my way through school, so gaming seems to come natural to me. And of my friends, the ones that have played other games at a high level seem to cross over to SC2 very well without having played that many games.

That said, just last week I did help a friend who had been stuck in bronze after 250 games move to diamond in just over 100 games just by pointing out a couple of stupid things he was doing. So it's not like it's super hard to move up when you start to realize what you should be doing.

LittLeD

Sweden7973 Posts

January 04 2011 12:55 GMT

#90

I have a touch for RTS games. Played War3 for quite some time so I figured out SC2 quite quickly

Endorsed

Netherlands1221 Posts

January 04 2011 12:56 GMT

#91

Some people are just talented at things. I've never played an rts before but got into diamond within 50 games. I just went 2/3 rax atack, expand. Add more rax, atack. Just plain macro. Now 3k diamond.

There is no such thing as talent, it has been proven over and over again. The level of expertise you have is directly tired to how much you practice AND how effectively you practice.

It has been proven? I think talent is the ability to learn quicker and having a higher ceiling. Somebody with talent will only need to practice 8 hours a day to be the best in the world, but somebody with less talent will need to practice 10+ hours.

Sadistx

Zimbabwe5568 Posts

January 04 2011 12:56 GMT

#92

Pretty sure anyone who's played BW iccup can get to diamond in one evening of laddering, there's nothing impressive in doing so.

So it's definitely previous RTS experience maybe 80% and 20% natural talent (just being good at games, having fast reaction time, etc.)

Pulimuli

Sweden2766 Posts

January 04 2011 12:57 GMT

#93

you really dont need previous RTS experience to get into diamond because starcraft 2 is ridiculously easy to learn (not to be a pro) if you watch replays of top-level players or watch day9 daily and stuff like that.

TrANCE,

301 Posts

January 04 2011 13:01 GMT

#94

I've come across this aswel, My friend was placed into plat from the placement matches then 7games later he was in diamond, he's only played fps before. He is by no means awel rounded player the only thing he does is cannon off hes expo take a hidden third then mass void rays if that fails then he masses some other unit. I dont think theirs any substitute for playing alot of games to have the highest learning curve sure you can get lucky but i think a 10-0 diamond player will get beaten most of the time verses a good 1k games played gold leaguer

Krfstniper

Italy24 Posts

January 04 2011 13:06 GMT

#95

I had RTS experience, i used to play Age of Empires 2, so i wasnt completely noob. Of course my first sc2 game is something horrid, but then i started playing 2on2's with a friend who thought be the basics. After about 100 2on2's i started 1on1'ing (during beta) and went from bronze to diamong in 1 month, about another hundred games

snazbaz

40 Posts

January 04 2011 13:07 GMT

#96

I made it to diamond without proper previous RTS experience in about 90 games.

I got stuck in silver/gold for a while but then found day9 and watched literally 50 day9 episodes and played some team games and customs vs very hard AI to practice mechanics then sky rocketed to plat then diamond very very quickly after that on a massive winning spree.

If you think about it that's 60-70 hours invested right there without actually playing 1v1 though.

If you are still silver after 600 games then there is probably something you fundamentally don't know about or misunderstand causing you not to improve. Either that or your mouse/keyboard/multitasking dexterity is very very very low (unlikely), OR you are not actively trying to improve.

CASLsoju

Canada253 Posts

January 04 2011 13:07 GMT

#97

On January 04 2011 17:28 Jago wrote:
I was just curious to know how much of their sc2 skill people think was learned through long and hard hours of practice and how much was basically natural. I've been reading lately about people who claim to have gotten into Diamond within their first 50-80 games without previous RTS experience and I am trying to figure out of it's just me who is really horribad or if these people are lying. SC2 is also my first serious RTS and 735 league games later (about 600 1v1) I am still in Silver, so if what these people claim is true, it's kinda depressing I guess.

It took me 150 games from bronze to get to 2.3K diamond. I played BW but only to a certain extent, only played fastest possible so that didn't really help. I only started looking up strats around plat, that's where I noticed that people were starting to get good and that I was loosing. I learnt a few opening, practiced them to death and went on a 23 game win streak which placed me at 2.2K diamond.

FOR EXAMPLE:

I 1gate fast expand vs terran if I see he gets gas and is teching etc. If not, I just 2 gate pressure outside my base and try to break them down with zealots

Versus zerg, not gonna lie my strat is so garbage but it wins a majority of my games. I 3gate timing push, NEVER fails against a fast expand.

Versus P, I use the adel method or I just K4G.

Dezzeh

Netherlands45 Posts

January 04 2011 13:11 GMT

#98

On January 04 2011 18:58 danielsan wrote:
im really curious about the ones getting to diamond that fast:

do you know different openings or just polished one using it exclusively

Diamond in about 50-60 games, no multiplayer RTS experience and very limited single player RTS experience before I picked up SC2. What did I do? Every single game I go 14 gas/14 pool and work from there, no set build orders, just goals. Only in the last 20 games or so I have been mixing things up.

By goals I mean like "I need to have a 3rd hatch in the making before the 10 min mark if I'm not under pressure", "I need to have at least 1/1 upgrades by 15 min", "I want to have my creep spread to all my bases as soon as possible", "I want to have a sizeable roach/hydra army at X time", "I need to keep using my muta's, don't let them just flap around, keep harassing" etc. Notice that most of these are macro goals.

Then there's mental checklists. "I need to check the larvae count and inject larvae timers on my hatches (and thus select my queens and hatches very often to keep track)", "I need to keep looking at the upper right part of my screen, resources low? Enougy supply?", "Fly an overlord over enemy main at 7 min into the game" and so forth.

Then there's the part of just knowing the game, as in knowing what all units can do, and what works best. Not necessarily counter what the enemy has, but just know what is possible at any given point in time. This is done by watching streams, replays, day9 and reading on strategy. I think I have put about the same amount of time in this as in actually playing the game (only done just over 100 games though). I guess I just need more experience now.

HwangjaeTerran

Finland5967 Posts

January 04 2011 13:12 GMT

#99

There is no natural talent, it's a term that lazy & uninspired people came up with as an excuse to being lazy / not caring enough.

R3m3mb3rM3

Germany954 Posts

January 04 2011 13:16 GMT

#100

i was silver after my placement matches and got to diamond after 50 games

i just watched alot of streams strategy guides etc..
i had high apm out of wc3 though

Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 15 16 17 Next All

Please or register to reply.

sc2 skill, learned vs natural - Page 5

Completed

Ongoing

Upcoming