EPTsc2 skill, learned vs natural - Page 6
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Dante08
Singapore4139 Posts
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danielsan
Romania399 Posts
On January 04 2011 22:11 Dezzeh wrote: Diamond in about 50-60 games, no multiplayer RTS experience and very limited single player RTS experience before I picked up SC2. What did I do? Every single game I go 14 gas/14 pool and work from there, no set build orders, just goals. Only in the last 20 games or so I have been mixing things up. By goals I mean like "I need to have a 3rd hatch in the making before the 10 min mark if I'm not under pressure", "I need to have at least 1/1 upgrades by 15 min", "I want to have my creep spread to all my bases as soon as possible", "I want to have a sizeable roach/hydra army at X time", "I need to keep using my muta's, don't let them just flap around, keep harassing" etc. Notice that most of these are macro goals. Then there's mental checklists. "I need to check the larvae count and inject larvae timers on my hatches (and thus select my queens and hatches very often to keep track)", "I need to keep looking at the upper right part of my screen, resources low? Enougy supply?", "Fly an overlord over enemy main at 7 min into the game" and so forth. Then there's the part of just knowing the game, as in knowing what all units can do, and what works best. Not necessarily counter what the enemy has, but just know what is possible at any given point in time. This is done by watching streams, replays, day9 and reading on strategy. I think I have put about the same amount of time in this as in actually playing the game (only done just over 100 games though). I guess I just need more experience now. thnks for answer, could you also tell me when did this happen? | ||
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
i'd suggest streaming your own play and rewatching your videos doesn't hurt so much to see what you're doing well, and what you could be doing better and overall being able to follow your movements, recall game decisions, & making better goals for yourself should help you play better than you do now | ||
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gillon
Sweden1578 Posts
On January 04 2011 18:23 Kimaker wrote: That's a load of crock. There CERTAINLY exists natural inclinations toward doing better than others at a given task considering we all think differently, and process information differently. Some ways of thinking would of course be more suited to quickly grasping rts's mechanics than others. I agree, hard work will beat out natural talent 9/10 times, but to say that "There is no such thing as talent..." is just lying. Not gonna argue with the middle portion of your post, but then why are some people at 700+ games, and still in Silver? They probably know what a 4 gate is, and have the damn thing memorized so they could recite it in their sleep. And clearly practice is not the issue (so damn many games) so what is it then? (Exaggeration) Practice well for a 100 games, get to diamond. Play 700 games and durp around and not actually consider what you could've done better/analyze/watch replays etc and you end up still in silver. See where I'm going with this? More games does not necessarily mean more skill earned through practice. | ||
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Deadlyhazard
United States1177 Posts
On January 04 2011 22:12 HwangjaeTerran wrote: There is no natural talent, it's a term that lazy & uninspired people came up with as an excuse to being lazy / not caring enough. Yep. That's what professionals think, at least the ones I've talked to such as Feng Zhu......concerning painting. | ||
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Pulimuli
Sweden2766 Posts
On January 04 2011 22:12 HwangjaeTerran wrote: There is no natural talent, it's a term that lazy & uninspired people came up with as an excuse to being lazy / not caring enough. right... so how do you explain child prodigies who are mathematical geniuses or who can speak 5 languages fluently at the age of 7? | ||
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R3m3mb3rM3
Germany954 Posts
On January 04 2011 22:24 Pulimuli wrote: right... so how do you explain child prodigies who are mathematical geniuses or who can speak 5 languages fluently at the age of 7? obviously they worked very hard for 7 years :D | ||
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TFB
United Kingdom89 Posts
"Natural talent" (for want of a better phrase) sets your upper ability limit, the rate at which you reach it is set by your ability to learn, your ability to stick at something is an innate characteristic of your personality, and there's absolutely nothing you can do change or avoid those factors. The whole notion that effort and practice will always result in success, and that everyone get there (wherever there is) if they try, is just a rather lame myth perpetuated by certain elements of society in order to shy away from what is, essentially, a very painful truth for some. Disclaimer : I'm bronze, I suck, I know why, and it's not going to change. I just enjoy the game when there's no cheese on the table. | ||
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Huragius
Lithuania1506 Posts
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LittLeD
Sweden7973 Posts
There is no such thing as talent, it has been proven over and over again. The level of expertise you have is directly tired to how much you practice AND how effectively you practice. You cant wholeheartedly believe that can you? Some people are just born smarter and mentally "quicker" and thus learn the game at a much faster speed. Its a matter of how well you can understand things and put it into practice. | ||
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TheKing
Australia186 Posts
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
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slith
Germany165 Posts
Most experience comes from shooters (Quake, UT, AvP, HL+Mods [Natural Selection: Team Germany 2k6+2k7]). I noticed that I'm really good at getting "into the mind" of the opponent. I'm very good at games in general, always been since I got my SNES. It's the biggest part of my live tbh. I don't care about anything else much. I learn relatively fast (not in social things though :/) and I'm good at analyzing myself. I used different build orders almost every match. I 5RR'd 4 times (until it failed to an Immortal rush) and Baneling Busted once. | ||
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Huragius
Lithuania1506 Posts
On January 04 2011 22:35 TheKing wrote: It took around 9 times for Jaedong to win courage. Yet he is the best zerg on the planet. I think the ratio of what matters is 90% practise 10% talent. This is simply not true. There are a lot of people who plays way more than 10% like Flash or JD and their ELO is below average. | ||
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warshop
Canada490 Posts
On January 04 2011 22:33 LittLeD wrote: You cant wholeheartedly believe that can you? Some people are just born smarter and mentally "quicker" and thus learn the game at a much faster speed. Its a matter of how well you can understand things and put it into practice. True, but everyone can achieve greatness if efforts are put in. That's what I think. It might take some way more time than others, but it can still be achieved. | ||
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apox
Australia19 Posts
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Huragius
Lithuania1506 Posts
On January 04 2011 22:36 GreEny K wrote: Everything I learned from BW carried over to SC2, so I can't say it was natural but in a sense it was. The people that got into diamond off 50 games, good for them. I'm happy for those that did it through watching replays, playing custom to develop their timings and builds and taking the time to learn how to play efficiently. The majority of the people that claim that are probably cheesey players who think that they are good based off all-in. Could be. But when I started to play sc2, I tried to find the most cheese-proof build followed by FE. I never relied on my opponents scouting or incapability of countering. But things are changing, this is why I hate TvZ. | ||
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teamsolid
Canada3668 Posts
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anderkas
United States86 Posts
Personally I do wonder if there's an age where your ability to pick up a completely new gaming experience shoots down. The high diamonds I notice are generally in their 20's and had ample experience with sc1/BW. The low diamonds with 50 games generally sound like 14-16 yo's with their "lol bronzies", but the guys who are stuck at low levels despite seeking advice and watching day9 usually end up being older (20's+) as well. I'm a 23 yo console only gamer for the most part and it shows. I pick up a controller and hold my own in almost any console game I'm introduced to. Gimme Rock Band, not so much. Gimme a mouse and keyboard, tell me to have my left hand off the home row and my right hand always on the mouse and I start to fumble with my mechanics. Yeah I know what to do moreso than many low-mid diamonds that I see...I just struggle to adapt to this new medium and execute. | ||
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love.less
United Kingdom293 Posts
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