sc2 skill, learned vs natural

Jago

Finland390 Posts

January 04 2011 08:28 GMT

I was just curious to know how much of their sc2 skill people think was learned through long and hard hours of practice and how much was basically natural. I've been reading lately about people who claim to have gotten into Diamond within their first 50-80 games without previous RTS experience and I am trying to figure out of it's just me who is really horribad or if these people are lying. SC2 is also my first serious RTS and 735 league games later (about 600 1v1) I am still in Silver, so if what these people claim is true, it's kinda depressing I guess.

EDIT:

By popular demand, here are some replays, these are just a few games I played in a row:

http://jago.pp.fi/misc/SC2/for review/Steppes vs diamond terran #1.SC2Replay
http://jago.pp.fi/misc/SC2/for review/ZvT DQ closepos.SC2Replay
http://jago.pp.fi/misc/SC2/for review/ZvT scrap.SC2Replay
http://jago.pp.fi/misc/SC2/for review/ZvT steppes.SC2Replay
http://jago.pp.fi/misc/SC2/for review/ZvT temple crosspos.SC2Replay

vileChAnCe

Canada525 Posts

January 04 2011 08:29 GMT

What race are you playing?

hellokitty[hk]

United States1309 Posts

January 04 2011 08:30 GMT

I've been reading lately about people who claim to have gotten into Diamond within their first 50-80 games without previous RTS experience and I am trying to figure out of it's just me who is really horribad or if these people are lying.

I don't doubt it.

piskooooo

United States351 Posts

January 04 2011 08:32 GMT

They probably got Diamond from winning 4-5 of their placement matches.

They probably just 4gate, cannon rush, 6pool, 12drone, 2 rax, etc.

They probably got it when the game was new.

They probably lied.

nekuodah

England2409 Posts

January 04 2011 08:33 GMT

I wouldnt say they are lieing as im one of them HOWEVER i have put in a lot of effort into learning the game from reading forums, watching dailies and tournaments and replays and within my first 100 or so games im in diamond (not top tier but diamond which is what the op states), i think maybe your approaching learning the game incorrectly which is causing your lack of progress.

warcralft

Singapore609 Posts

January 04 2011 08:34 GMT

Its not really natural. Those players ( ME ) just have more game sense. Game sense as in they are able to multitask well (real life stuff helps alot). Plays strategy games. And do research!!

Some people with 50-80 games watch streams. Find counters once they lose. Stick to 1 BO.

TyrantPotato

Australia1541 Posts

January 04 2011 08:35 GMT

some people tend to have a natural "knack" for rts games.

for example im one of the lucky sons of a bitchs where everything just comes to me naturally. but i rarely get a chance to practice so i cant reap any benefits from it.

then there are people who may not have that spark. but will dedicate themselves to hard practice and will reach the top through sheer determination.

personally i feel that those who commit them selves deserve more then those who are just "good" at stuff.

but the top top top people "jeadong/flash gosu level"
they seem to be born from the ashes of thousand year old phoenixes with the burning pashion of a million suns and practice their skills inside volcanoes whilst tieing 1000kgs of wieght to their arms 12 hours a day

Krayze

United States213 Posts

January 04 2011 08:35 GMT

I've always been in the top league. I get there asap (less than 30 games after each reset). I don't ladder much cuz I'm so busy, less than 100 ladder games 1v1 in total including beta. It's just natural, I played WC3 a little and SC:BW for about a month but no ICCUP or anything near competitive.

I have been playing all sorts of computer and home console games since I could pick up a controller, so maybe that's how I could naturally pick up SC2? Would be a good research project

Oh I'm zerg by the way, I'm like 300 diamond but play 2400-ish level players.

SecondChance

Australia603 Posts

January 04 2011 08:37 GMT

On January 04 2011 17:28 Jago wrote:
735 league games later (about 600 1v1) I am still in Silver.

Woah.

It's a hard question to answer. I suppose the easiest way to put it would be to say not everyone can play basketball well. Not everybody can play football well. Some can play one well and not the other. Meanwhile, some people can play them both exceptionally well.

There is so much variety and diversity between us all, that it is to be expected that not all of us can "excel" (if you call being in diamond excelling) at our chosen hobbies. I think there is a certain measure to which we can perform tasks; and if you can only play at a silver level; then so be it.

It doesn't mean you can't the enjoy the game. Furthermore, I'm quite certain there are activities that you could excel at that top tier sc2 players could not.

It's all about doing what you enjoy as opposed to what degree of success you can have with the said task.

PaPoolee

Netherlands660 Posts

January 04 2011 08:37 GMT

#10

Just learn 1 BO for each match up and practice it until perfection, that's usually what it takes to get to diamond! getting high diamond is the real challenge in my opinion :O good luck mate!.

bkrow

Australia8532 Posts

January 04 2011 08:39 GMT

#11

Like with most things it is a combination of both.. you can hit diamond by simply massing games but if you want to make it to the next level you have to have some sort of natural ability.. natural dexterity and decision making skills that cannot be trained..

If you are willing to put in the hard yards you will still get far.. just practice practice practice..

endy

Switzerland8970 Posts

January 04 2011 08:39 GMT

#12

Talent plays a big role here for sure.

Saying that we all have an equal natural skill is just as wrong as saying everyone has the same IQ (just an example)

It's basically the same for everything. I'm extremely skilled at cooking and learned it very quickly. Some old friends don't believe me when I tell them I'm opening my restaurant next year.
At the meantime, I played 7000 games on BW and can't get past C- on iccup.

FliedLice

Germany7494 Posts

January 04 2011 08:40 GMT

#13

I improved most by watching streams and stuff I'd say.

Day[9]-Dailys are the obvious thing to watch if you're in a low league and want to kick some ass.

Jago

Finland390 Posts

January 04 2011 08:41 GMT

#14

On January 04 2011 17:29 Whomp wrote:
What race are you playing?

Zerg

mustache

Switzerland309 Posts

January 04 2011 08:41 GMT

#15

Diamond is achievable within 50-80 games. I had around that many when i got promoted. i did play SC1 however. Mostly Turret defenses and Fastest Map Possible/dream maps though.

i think there are some fundamental flaws in your game if you're still in silver after 600 games.
-Keep making workers the whole game.
-when you have too many minerals build extra buildings
-at silver its not so important WHAT you build but how MUCH (but pls dont go mass marine vs banelings)
-watch your replay and have the production tab open the whole game.
-watch your replay and look when you army is bigger than your enemys and try to attack then next game

GL!

shannn

Netherlands2891 Posts

January 04 2011 08:42 GMT

#16

Well natural talent is always there

I can definitely say that reaching Diamond within 50-60 games is possible without prior experience of RTS games but you'll need to have big talent to recognize the core basics and other mechanics.
I spent I think about from copper to gold (now bronze to plat) about 100 games which eventually led me into plat (now diamond) at beta. So I can tell there is definitely some truth in there.
Having a coach telling you what to do and teaching you is also very helpfull in progressing very fast.

Comma20

Australia138 Posts

January 04 2011 08:43 GMT

#17

If you have the type of mind that suits learning and analysing then you are going to progress quicker than someone who just plays and doesn't know where they go wrong. This type of people are often the best at -anything- they set their mind to, as they continuously progress rather than reach a self imposed skill ceiling due to ignorance.

DerpDog

Korea (North)62 Posts

January 04 2011 08:43 GMT

#18

A huge portion of "getting into diamond" is in just learning the basics of the game, which you just don't get from simply playing it a ton. You might think you do, but BW was out for a very long time, so the general idea of how SC2 is played was already in place. Start watching Day9, watch any or all of his old dailies and follow his advice blindly. Learning how to macro well is always the priority. Also keep in mind that there are many ways to get a high ladder rating / diamond / whatever, and especially early on, some easy-to-execute builds (such as the 4 gate, 3 rax pushes, doube port banshee) was, and still are to some effect, extremely punishing to anyone who doesn't know exactly how to defend it. Learning how to outmacro people and eventually defend the "abusive" builds (if you can even call it that) will get you into diamond and beyond.

http://day9tv.blip.tv/ --> Episode Archive

Leviwtf

174 Posts

January 04 2011 08:45 GMT

#19

There is no such thing as talent, it has been proven over and over again. The level of expertise you have is directly tired to how much you practice AND how effectively you practice.

Getting into diamond literally shows very little of your skill level, the easy way is to learn 1 all in build (4gate, 3rax, etc) and just use it always. And even if people have no previous RTS experience they might have played speed chess or something else that would give them previous experience that would be helpful. Hell, even playing video games alot that are 1v1 based in a big help in that you won't be nervous when playing 1v1 like most people are. They also might of watched day9 every day and he gives very helpful tips that many new RTS players take a long time to figure out for themselves.

Also, you will improve immensely when you stop worrying about the outcome (winning/losing and what league your in/your points) and instead focus on improving.

Blurb

Denmark55 Posts

January 04 2011 08:46 GMT

#20

While I've plenty RTS experience, it's been from lowest level of casual play throughout my childhood.
The only RTS I've played at a level anywhere competetively was BattleForge, which does not resemble SC2 that much. About 40 1v1 games later, I'm in Diamond.
Note that I played a lot of team league before getting into 1v1, which (most likely) gave me neeeded experience and practice.

1 2 3 4 5 15 16 17 Next All

Please or register to reply.

sc2 skill, learned vs natural

Completed

Ongoing

Upcoming