sc2 skill, learned vs natural - Page 15

Morphs

Netherlands645 Posts

January 05 2011 10:32 GMT

#281

This thread is pretty skewed in itself since teamliquid tends to attract gamers who are a bit more serious about playing sc2 than average. Hence all those "I play casually and got into diamond after 50 games" ... besides, I think there's quite a big overlap in skill level between high plat and low diamond.

In beta I started in copper (up to silver) and in retail I started in silver and worked my way up to plat where I've been for a while now. IMO playing Zerg definitely makes this climb harder, and only recently did I get the feeling that my mechanics are getting smooth...

Just play for the improvement. Watch your replays and try to focus on one thing at a time for a while so you improve on that.

WallieP

Netherlands425 Posts

January 05 2011 11:06 GMT

#282

On January 05 2011 19:32 Morphs wrote:
This thread is pretty skewed in itself since teamliquid tends to attract gamers who are a bit more serious about playing sc2 than average. Hence all those "I play casually and got into diamond after 50 games" ... .

This really was what i wanted to type but couldnt find the right words... a average gamer wouldnt end up on this website, watch tactics on a daily base or analyse replays after every lose, when you do stuff like that you allready are not a natural but a person who got it by playing and researching a lot, and finding the right tactics. With the right build order and research close to everyone can reach diamond imo

Jago

Finland390 Posts

January 05 2011 11:09 GMT

#283

I would like to remind people that the OP has been updated with some replays. I mentioned it a few pages ago, but that post is pretty easy to miss.

DragonDefonce

United States790 Posts

January 05 2011 11:13 GMT

#284

I guess if you did your research on how to cheese beforehand you could do it. But if you just gave someone a copy of the game and told them to start laddering, they wont ever make it to diamond in less than 100 games.

fabioisonfire

United States81 Posts

January 05 2011 11:33 GMT

#285

In my case, I've had tons of experience, playing all different kinds of real-time strategy games. But, I'm a home grown SC2 player, beginning at Bronze and working my way up to Diamond through practice, study, and more practice.

Sure, APM can be a God-given talent, but I do believe it's mostly work ethic and a willingness to learn from each loss.

Hane

France210 Posts

January 05 2011 12:14 GMT

#286

Korean says that being good at something is 99% practice/work and 1% skill.

To improve you have to learn from your loses and play more.

Started from copper league, and now after 3k games i'm mid+ diam.

Jago

Finland390 Posts

January 05 2011 18:39 GMT

#287

Mystically, one person after another is asking for replays and this thread grows to 15 pages within 1 day and now that some replays have been posted the entire discussion dropped dead?

Carkis

Canada302 Posts

January 05 2011 19:10 GMT

#288

Its like music or sports, some people are naturally amazing some people work very hard and become just as amazing the answer is both, to get good you need some natural talent but you dont need to be a naturally amazing player to start with

decaf

Austria1797 Posts

January 05 2011 19:15 GMT

#289

I've been reading lately about people who claim to have gotten into Diamond within their first 50-80 games without previous RTS experience

I did that in 30 games.
I am generally very good if it comes to playing video games, don't know why, because I don't play very much. Maybe because I played the guitar and the piano ?

Retgery

Canada1229 Posts

January 05 2011 19:16 GMT

#290

Well I started in high bronze league after my placement matches, and after 100 games I'm about to move up into platinum league

SiN]

United States540 Posts

January 05 2011 19:24 GMT

#291

Getting into diamond isn't even remotely difficult. My brothers got into diamond in about 50 games with little/no RTS experience. Minigun had no RTS experience and he is over 3k points.

Meldrath

United States620 Posts

January 05 2011 19:25 GMT

#292

On January 04 2011 17:32 piskooooo wrote:
They probably got Diamond from winning 4-5 of their placement matches.

They probably just 4gate, cannon rush, 6pool, 12drone, 2 rax, etc.

They probably got it when the game was new.

They probably lied.

They can only get to platinum from placement games. Your wrong.

What ever strat they used is valid cheese is valid cheese is cheese becuase it works.

When they got the game does not matter. There was a lengthy beta and people had sc1 to compare and learn from.

People can and do lie. But saying your in diamond when you are not is kinda silly being in diamond doesnt make you a god among men.. being 3k+ or in meatyowllegs standards being 4k does.

In summary your not as clever as you think you are.

Mintastic

United States166 Posts

January 05 2011 19:33 GMT

#293

All types of gaming experience helps, not just RTS. Just get used to the mechanics and having your brain multitask and control everything through practice.

Also don't let the population of this forum fool you, most of the players in the world are in silver or below so it's perfectly normal. Remember to have fun too.

DIRESTRAIT

Canada155 Posts

January 05 2011 19:37 GMT

#294

I agree that natural talent does have to do with it. I'll use guitar as an example. Sure if everyone practices day and night they'll become amazing at guitar, but some people just pick it up and have a feel for it that others don't, these are the people that get creative with the instruments and set the bar for everyone else (Drewbie drops, Maynard transfers), natural talent is not everything although it's not to be overlooked

SlyinZ

France199 Posts

January 05 2011 19:41 GMT

#295

Show nested quote +

profile : Joined TL.net Monday, 26th of May 2008, you failed hard sir

In topic, i think that a monkey can play mozart if you give him time.

Anyone can be succesfull at anything, the only limited factor is the willpower.

Precision

United States67 Posts

January 05 2011 19:46 GMT

#296

On January 06 2011 04:37 DIRESTRAIT wrote:
I agree that natural talent does have to do with it. I'll use guitar as an example. Sure if everyone practices day and night they'll become amazing at guitar, but some people just pick it up and have a feel for it that others don't, these are the people that get creative with the instruments and set the bar for everyone else (Drewbie drops, Maynard transfers), natural talent is not everything although it's not to be overlooked

Took the words right out of my mouth. Some people just musically talented, some people are just naturally good at sports, and some people can also be naturally talented at playing video games (whether it's an RTS or not).

But as to whether if it's either skill or practice, I'd have to say it's more practice than skill. But mostly a combination of both.

zJayy962

1363 Posts

January 05 2011 19:47 GMT

#297

On January 04 2011 17:35 TyrantPotato wrote:
some people tend to have a natural "knack" for rts games.

for example im one of the lucky sons of a bitchs where everything just comes to me naturally. but i rarely get a chance to practice so i cant reap any benefits from it.

then there are people who may not have that spark. but will dedicate themselves to hard practice and will reach the top through sheer determination.

personally i feel that those who commit them selves deserve more then those who are just "good" at stuff.

but the top top top people "jeadong/flash gosu level"
they seem to be born from the ashes of thousand year old phoenixes with the burning pashion of a million suns and practice their skills inside volcanoes whilst tieing 1000kgs of wieght to their arms 12 hours a day

Im from the US and you just used kgs as a measurement. It made me giggle.

Leviwtf

174 Posts

January 05 2011 19:49 GMT

#298

Personal anecdotes aren't very convincing to me.

Sm3agol

United States2055 Posts

January 05 2011 20:03 GMT

#299

Simple. Some people "get it", some don't. Those that don't can, with the right kind of practice, reach the same heights as that naturally get it.
I'll take me, for example, with two different things.
Video games. I've played them all my life, especially FPS, and just "get" them. I do well in every single game I've played longer than a month or so. In SC2, I placed in plat with zero RTS experience except for Rome: Total War, and probably would be in diamond if I actually played it more, I find it funner to watch. :-( But I just didn't have any trouble picking it up, and "getting" some of the more advanced concepts.

But then we move to music. I blow at music. But i love it, and so I've practiced many, many hours on my music. So now, i can play about 5 different instruments with some degree of proficiency, piano and cello the best. I still am not "talented", and never will be. But I wanted to be good, so i took lessons, and practiced my butt off until I was. It's a lot less fun that just playing video games and being good, but in the end, I'm reaching the goal I set. If I was talented, and had put all the time into music that I have, I would probably be really amazing. I'm not though, I'm just solid.

Neo.NEt

United States785 Posts

January 05 2011 20:54 GMT

#300

I agree with the natural talent thing, but I'm not sure you can compare it to music. Some people are naturally better at SC than others, but nobody will ever be at a level of Beethoven or Mozart or some child prodigy. I'm sure the Starcraft 1 people are going to be screaming about how flash or whoever was like 13 when he won some big SC1 thing but that's nowhere near the level of an actual child prodigy where someone is writing world class symphonies at like age 3...

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