EPTsc2 skill, learned vs natural - Page 2
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imax
Sweden31 Posts
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DerpDog
Korea (North)62 Posts
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JayDee_
548 Posts
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chenchen
United States1136 Posts
On January 04 2011 17:47 imax wrote: I guess ages has to do with it to. I think 18+ helps. I'd say more like 14+ (don't forgot when Flash won his first OSL) . . . But not everyone picks up things at the same rate | ||
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Little-Chimp
Canada948 Posts
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Poring
Switzerland34 Posts
I think I've had around a hundred ladder games in beta. Back there I was in gold when there was copper league, and after diamond was introduced ... I really don't remember. I think I was too absorbed with playing team games with friends at that point. Later, at release, I got into diamond after 20-30 games, which quite surprised me at first - but only until I saw what kind of other horrible players there are in diamond. No insult to you lower lever players - actually, I personally think people below diamond show a lot more creativity, because they are not accustimed to "standard" play and build orders. But if a terran just continues to spam marine marauder for like 15 minutes and stays on one base, I dont see how that guy deserves "diamond" - and believe me, I've seen 1000-2000 diamond players who do that. I don't consider myself very good. I have no actual builds planned out, am permanently supply blocked, lose to rushes or pushes all the time. I also only ever win ZvZ because my opponents aren't agressive - I am fucking terrible at ZvZ. I see myself around 2200-2400 diamond since I play against guys in that level all the time - I'm roughly 1000 diamond with at least a thousand bonus pool. I really should ladder more. Long story short, there probably is something like natural. Maybe it has to do with general video game / computer (I type decently fast - does that increase my APM? who the hell nows) background, maybe it has to do with intelligence, maybe with reflexes, maybe its just pure random talent. The hell I know. Oh, and to that guy: On January 04 2011 17:32 piskooooo wrote: They probably got Diamond from winning 4-5 of their placement matches. They probably just 4gate, cannon rush, 6pool, 12drone, 2 rax, etc. They probably got it when the game was new. They probably lied. Wow, you're really contributing a lot. You might be surprised. I rarely ever get cannonrushed or 6pooled on ladder. What the fuck is 12drone. 2 rax is standard, and so is 4gate, even if I dont like it. Also, I dont think I've cheesed in a single game on ladder (except for one game where I accidentally picked terran (offrace) and I simply 3 rax all-in'd a TvP because hell, I can't play terran). Don't let your anger out by making shitty posts. And to end that horrendously long post of mine, you should not be hard on yourself because you are "only" silver. I know some players in bronze that would envy you for that. And hell, maybe you can refine some small things in your play and suddendly improve in skill a lot. Good look  | ||
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shaunnn
Ireland1230 Posts
Some people just can learn alot more from less experience and some people dont learn at all and continue to make the same mistakes over and over, if you actively watch replays with the intent to learn and practice build orders over and over till they are natural for you its quite easy to go from clueless to 2200 diamond in a month edit* im protoss but i havent 4-gated, cannon rushed, proxy gate or 1 based all in in a single ladder game yet, i find those strategys so much more risky then solid 2 base robo play | ||
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pRo9aMeR
595 Posts
To answer your question as to why you are still in silver, I will ask you some questions: Do you look at your loses (replays) and find out what you did wrong? Do you use your games to focus on a particular aspect of your gameplay? Do you critique yourself harshly or lightly? Do you look at your wins (replays) and find out what you could've done better or what you missed? Do you have someone who is a higher level than you who can directly guide (coach) you in game? What is your motivation for playing? | ||
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Reggae-Troll
Finland241 Posts
I played beta with no previous RTS experience. After the placement matches I spent some time being awesome in the copper league, not knowing what to do nor how to do it. I didn't play much, since I got the key very late and I was kinda bummed that I was so terrible. I wasn't quite sure if I even wanted to buy the damn game, I'm used to actually being a pretty good player(FPS games on competetive level) and I felt like I just didn't get starcraft. Then a friend of mine linked me to day9, I watched a few videos aimed for beginners (Plugging leaks in silver/gold?) and realized what I had been doing wrong. When the game went retail I got placed straight into platinium and 20ish games later I was in the diamond league. All I needed was a nudge in right direction. | ||
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SheaR619
United States2399 Posts
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iamsatan
United States109 Posts
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Ryndika
1489 Posts
You may only have genetic features in yourself that makes you more competitive/ more adrenaline etc. which may or may not help you. I've got some RTS experience myself by playing WC3, indie RTS games, ALL AoE, some Dota and age of mythology (against insane bots lol). So i got pretty quickly to plat. Now I play rarely ladder... Maybe 3 to 5 games in week because I NEED practice partner that is dedicated but does not take single game seriously so we are both free from pressure. ty | ||
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Deadlyfish
Denmark1980 Posts
 ). And i wouldnt really say that i have any natural talent for starcraft.I think that some people might just learn quicker than others. Or maybe they've watched alot before they played. I watched Day9 and read teamliquid before i started to play (played from release). | ||
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Ulfsark
United States958 Posts
So I suppose it is more about how fast you learn. | ||
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OriginalBeast
United States709 Posts
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goldenwitch
United States338 Posts
Are you analyzing your play to make sure you are constantly building workers and never get supply blocked? Do you have a concrete plan for all 6 match ups in both close and far positions? After a loss, do you adapt your game play to prevent that loss from happening again? Are you struggling with micro? You can play thousands of games, but if you never ask yourself these questions, you will get better at a very slow rate. | ||
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Jago
Finland390 Posts
On January 04 2011 17:52 chenchen wrote: I'd say more like 14+ (don't forgot when Flash won his first OSL) . . . But not everyone picks up things at the same rate Well, I am 27. And for the record, I do watch Day9 religiously. | ||
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Cloak
United States816 Posts
Sure BOs are good, but think about: what wins you your past games, what's effective at certain points, what compositions are good for what, when is it safe to expand, or when is it safe to aggress. When is it best to do this, or to do that. More importantly, look at what you're opponent is doing (directly or indirectly) at all times. You want everything in your control so when you lose a game, you can go back to the replay and say "Hey, this is where I went wrong." Speed and mechanics comes from knowing what to do. | ||
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
I never played any PC game in my life, yet got to Diamond in less than 200 games, without doing any customs except like 10 VS comp during the beta. Although it's not "fast", it's far from being slow. And I'm a Zerg who never cheesed. If you focus on improving rather than winning and are quite methodical, you get decent very fast. | ||
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Kimaker
United States2131 Posts
On January 04 2011 17:45 Leviwtf wrote: There is no such thing as talent, it has been proven over and over again. The level of expertise you have is directly tired to how much you practice AND how effectively you practice. Getting into diamond literally shows very little of your skill level, the easy way is to learn 1 all in build (4gate, 3rax, etc) and just use it always. And even if people have no previous RTS experience they might have played speed chess or something else that would give them previous experience that would be helpful. Hell, even playing video games alot that are 1v1 based in a big help in that you won't be nervous when playing 1v1 like most people are. They also might of watched day9 every day and he gives very helpful tips that many new RTS players take a long time to figure out for themselves. Also, you will improve immensely when you stop worrying about the outcome (winning/losing and what league your in/your points) and instead focus on improving. That's a load of crock. There CERTAINLY exists natural inclinations toward doing better than others at a given task considering we all think differently, and process information differently. Some ways of thinking would of course be more suited to quickly grasping rts's mechanics than others. I agree, hard work will beat out natural talent 9/10 times, but to say that "There is no such thing as talent..." is just lying. Not gonna argue with the middle portion of your post, but then why are some people at 700+ games, and still in Silver? They probably know what a 4 gate is, and have the damn thing memorized so they could recite it in their sleep. And clearly practice is not the issue (so damn many games) so what is it then? (Exaggeration) | ||
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