Korean top 200 12/28/2010 - Page 5

On December 29 2010 17:08 IdrA wrote:

zerg is fucking awful
clearly weakest, least reliable options early game. any viable pressure is nearly a complete allin, besides light roach aggression which is easily nullified. both t and p have lots of ways to put game ending pressure on z early and half of them arent even close to allin, and most are unscoutable and have different counters.

and the idea that z is somehow the strongest late game race is fuckin absurd. hive units are nearly useless and horribly cost inefficient unless broodlords catch them off guard. ya, you can insta remax if you're allowed to get a giant econ, but remaxing on lair units vs collosus or tank based armies hardly matters when you can trade 200/200 for a tenth of their army.

if z guesses, and guessing is required if t and p dont show a ridiculously early expansion, correctly and hits drone timings perfectly then they have a mid game advantage, but its not an advantage that can be used very well. its very easy for t or p to make themselves unkillable and head for that invincible late game army. z gets to use their unit advantage to tech towards hive, which can be nullified, or to expand a bunch so they can throw away a few extra 200/200 armies before getting rolled.

zerg is failing massively in just about every statistic besides gsl first places. the race is fucking awful. i honestly have no idea how so many people dont acknowledge it yet. zergs performance in the foreign scene is very nearly non existent. i think morrow has won one viking cup and otherwise 0 z wins since i won mlg dc. and a pitiful number of titles before that.

On December 29 2010 19:45 decaf wrote:
As far as I'm concerned the only thing that Zerg is good at is the midgame, when the effects of the larvae systems kick in and you got a better idea of what your opponent is doing. However, early game and late game (if you play against decent players) get ruled by protoss or terran.
Since most ZvPs don't take very long (cause everyone 2 bases, cannon walls, 4gates or any other cheesy allin strat) I get to feel Terran's strong late game way more.

If you take meta (which is not as "zerg favored" as many might think) for instance against a decent terran and you made it to late game surving the inevitable early game bunker push he can easily cut the map in half and you got to stay on the same amount of bases. He can put tanks near the watch tower and destroy your gold while you can either go and kill his tanks for no justified price or oyu can just watch him doing it, because you cant just go and kill one of his bases, because PFs and turrets are so cost-effective. You need a whole army to destroy an empty terran base, while he can just land 2 medivacs and kill important tech structures, queens, drones or whatever. Most terrans anticipate the broodlords coming and will have some vikings out in time and kill you. There's really no way winning late game except being two times better.

On December 29 2010 21:04 MorroW wrote:
mvp is the mvp from sc1 right? just making sure here )

On December 29 2010 20:50 Bellygareth wrote:


They don't need to anticipate broodlords as they already have starport + reactor available for medivacs.

On December 29 2010 19:52 Gigaudas wrote:


I love reading this as I haven't really seen anyone taking Zerg's disadvantage seriously. Everyone just point to the GSL-winners and say "Terran is the weakest!". I don't base my opinion at all on my own experiences, I try to purely focus on statistics.

Here's a good example:
Find the latest Zerg tournament winner (Idra's and Ret's victories are in a show match and a KotH event) :

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/individual-leagues

On December 29 2010 20:52 RvB wrote:
Without touching any balance I just wanted to add that you can't expect zerg to have as many players in the top 200 as Protoss and Terran for the simple fact that zerg has less players. If we would only go by statistics the percentage of zerg that's in the top 200 is fine but I don't know about zerg tournament wins.

Anyway the best we can do is wait for Blizzard and see what they will do about perceived balance issues.

On December 29 2010 18:24 Dente wrote:
It's amazing to see zergs still complaining, while terrans just need to allin or 1baseplay. Go 21 CC as terran? Np, zerg will be at your nat around 8:00 with 10 banelings and 30 speedlings. Yesyes, 7 banelings die on 1 bunker, but gratz, there are 30 lings in your nat and more reïnforcements are coming very quickly. Don't put pressure on the zerg? Np, he will be 25+ drones ahead. Zergs are now always 10 or more drones ahead of the terran (same for protoss) and people are still suggesting to nerf mules? Let me explain it: mules are needed for terran to make up for those 10+ more drones / probes. I agree to nerf mules when terran can actually win a 200vs200 fight in tvp. What a complete joke is that. A race that can warp in an entire army in a few clicks wins in a 200vs200 fight against a race that has to wait for his units to come out. By the time they come out, protoss should have finnished the game.

On December 29 2010 22:08 Shikyo wrote:

In SCBW, Protoss is by far the most popular race, yet they have had the least amount of top players in the world for a long time. Popularity doesn't matter at all for the top 200, when will people realize this? If anything, the less popular race is getting more practice against the other races, and should be performing better at the top.

On December 29 2010 22:33 SoL[9] wrote:
EtdGrrr anyone can confirme if is really him?

Idra
For what has to read you are going to change protoss if the GSL works bad for you or blizzard dont change things right?