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On January 04 2011 05:28 MockHamill wrote:
The balance changes make no sense to me. Why improve Protoss early game, which is already strong as long as you know how to use forcefields, without nerfing their OP lategame.
HTs + Speedlots cannot be defeated by Terran given equal skill and similar economies. It is simply not possible.
I suggest the following:
- Khaydarin Amulet removed from the game
- Zealot speed upgrade decreases Zealot hitpoints by 10. you forgot to put /s at the end of your post haha
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I thought we were past this balance shit already ?
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On January 04 2011 06:09 Sprouter wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 05:28 MockHamill wrote:
The balance changes make no sense to me. Why improve Protoss early game, which is already strong as long as you know how to use forcefields, without nerfing their OP lategame.
HTs + Speedlots cannot be defeated by Terran given equal skill and similar economies. It is simply not possible.
I suggest the following:
- Khaydarin Amulet removed from the game
- Zealot speed upgrade decreases Zealot hitpoints by 10. you forgot to put /s at the end of your post haha
Blue flame hellions you fucking scrub. Don't post on balance. As a terran player im offended someone this dumb is playing my race.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On January 04 2011 06:09 Zaphid wrote:
I thought we were past this balance shit already ?
This is the forum where pvt and zvp were whined about up till the release of sc2. And that game was widely acknowledged to be the most balanced in history. As much as I would hope, unfortunately some people will never get past the "oh my god, he just killed me, I played perfectly, his race must be imbalanced" stage.
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What some of you do not understand is that I said Protoss is OP lategame vs Terran IF:
1) Equal skill and
2) Similar economies
Of course if you outplay your opponent, are ahead in economy, kill him early game etc Terran can win. But I am talking late game, equal skill, similar economies.
Just ask yourself. If you were playing against yourself late game Terran vs Protoss and you are both on 3 saturated bases do you honestly think that Terran you would have a 50% of winning vs Protoss you (assuming you are equally good with both races).
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On January 04 2011 06:14 MockHamill wrote:
What some of you do not understand is that I said Protoss is OP lategame vs Terran IF:
1) Equal skill and
2) Similar economies
Of course if you outplay your opponent, are ahead in economy, kill him early game etc Terran can win. But I am talking late game, equal skill, similar economies.
Just ask yourself. If you were playing against yourself late game Terran vs Protoss and you are both on 3 saturated bases do you honestly think that Terran you would have a 50% of winning vs Protoss you (assuming you are equally good with both races).
terran also has different units than MMMG, but most ppl seem to forget that. lately there was for example some replaypack of tvp mech, try watching that one
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I have a feeling that we will get more changes than what we've seen in PTR. SC2 as an e-sport is going downhill in Korea as of now, and something needs to be done. GOM is really to blame since GSL 3, and this season's format is a total disaster because it removes a good deal of excitement and trhill from the spectators. (Playing 1st/2nd match then 3rd/4th match, after who's advancing has been determined? Yeah lots of suspense there)
Besides which it's ridiculous to watch 5 min games followed by 15 min commercials. I hear David Kim is at GSL watching games in person, hope he does the right thing.
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On January 04 2011 06:14 MockHamill wrote:
What some of you do not understand is that I said Protoss is OP lategame vs Terran IF:
1) Equal skill and
2) Similar economies
Of course if you outplay your opponent, are ahead in economy, kill him early game etc Terran can win. But I am talking late game, equal skill, similar economies.
Just ask yourself. If you were playing against yourself late game Terran vs Protoss and you are both on 3 saturated bases do you honestly think that Terran you would have a 50% of winning vs Protoss you (assuming you are equally good with both races).
O damn, the game must be broken then.
It's not like in broodwar 2 base protoss had a large disadvantage to 2 base terran. Or 2 base zerg had a large disadvantage to 2 base protoss.
wait........
The game isn't meant for each race to play it the same. It's like saying PvT is imba cuz teir 1 terran rapes teir 1 protoss. Build some fucking immortals. In your case, take advantage of the weak early game toss.
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On January 04 2011 06:14 MockHamill wrote:
What some of you do not understand is that I said Protoss is OP lategame vs Terran IF:
1) Equal skill and
2) Similar economies
Of course if you outplay your opponent, are ahead in economy, kill him early game etc Terran can win. But I am talking late game, equal skill, similar economies.
Just ask yourself. If you were playing against yourself late game Terran vs Protoss and you are both on 3 saturated bases do you honestly think that Terran you would have a 50% of winning vs Protoss you (assuming you are equally good with both races).
Yes. Otherwise the GSL would be dominated by protoss, and all top players would switch to toss, neither of which is the case. So therefore you are spouting balance nonsense out of your ass.
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Yes, Terran on equal skill and similar economies with a protoss, I would still vent Terran for the win. Regardless how smart casting HT's are, ghosts with emps, tank and vikings and the general mmm line will still do better than what protoss can produce. HT's are such a vital tool for protoss to even survive.
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On January 04 2011 05:52 SCC-Faust wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 05:28 MockHamill wrote:
The balance changes make no sense to me. Why improve Protoss early game, which is already strong as long as you know how to use forcefields, without nerfing their OP lategame.
HTs + Speedlots cannot be defeated by Terran given equal skill and similar economies. It is simply not possible.
I suggest the following:
- Khaydarin Amulet removed from the game
- Zealot speed upgrade decreases Zealot hitpoints by 10. No and no. And no and no and no. If you would have said something that was from a subjective point of view I'd respond differently. But when you have the attitude that Terran doesn't have a chance late game against Protoss, you're just misinformed and (probably) a bad TvP player. Rarely do you see people making balance accusations in favor of a race that they don't even play, because mostly, it isn't their concern. And it is really hard for someone to even respond to a post like yours because there is so much evidence where you're truly wrong. A Protoss just can't tech to High Templar and get an easy third. Have you even watched any of the past GSL games? Any of the Koths? Where do you get this idea? In fact, I'd love to hear your opinion on oGsMC's play style. He plays pretty much the exact opposite of what you believe to be overpowered - he opts for timing pushes. He doesn't even want to get to the point where he has High Templar, and many Protoss feel the same way. To you, storm sure seems like a great spell. But how about playing PvT at a higher level for a bit? While the Terran has to micro carefully and split his army, the Protoss has to constantly retreat his chargelots and move them away from his own storms, while splitting his high templars so EMP doesn't nullify his whole army. It isn't an easy situation for anyone. Don't make balance suggestions just because you blow at something. You make yourself look dumb and shit up threads.
You are full of shit, especially on certain maps (metal and caverns particularly) warp in templar is retarded strong. Even if you beat their army as a terran player you cant move forward because theres several templars waiting there for you to storm the rest of your army then protoss just reproduces. It turns the game into a stalemate hour long bullshit fest shown here
http://sc2rep.com/replays/(P)ZZayohoPros_vs_(T)oGsTOP_metalopolis_sc2rep_com_20101231/4033
Its quite ugly. Warp in templar is a problem, its already difficult enough for terran to deal with colossus and templar seeing as they require 2 completely different tech paths but warp in + armor upgrades make it retarded. There comes a point where you get ahead of the toss and litterally cannot attack them because its not cost effective meanwhile they slowly take the map and can go carriers or something. Bio just isnt viable and tank/thor is worthless as well. Maybe some sort of Hidden mass BC shit and hope you kill them before they make voids....I dunno. Theres always the threat protoss can run you over as well with that shit. Its dumb. People use cannons at their expos with the templar as well to make dropping impossible. I honestly think some people are just bad at protoss on here or havent tried going anything but colossus.
Its shit. No terran composition can beat that in any remotely cost effective way.
Also you are rofl bad if you cant split templars....how fucking easy is that combined with smart cast in this game? Its basically impossible to EMP every templar since good people put them in the back of their army combined with the fact that feedback is instant -_-
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And for people saying that Blue Flame hellions beat HTs/Speedlots, of course you are right.
But Speedlots and HTs are good against almost every Terran units there is while Hellions suck completely against everything that is not HTs or Speedlots. So if you invest heavily in Hellions you are screwed if Protoss tech switches and severely punished if he mixes in some other units.
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On January 04 2011 06:24 MockHamill wrote:
And for people saying that Blue Flame hellions beat HTs/Speedlots, of course you are right.
But Speedlots and HTs are good against almost every Terran units there is while Hellions suck completely against everything that is not HTs or Speedlots. So if you invest heavily in Hellions you are screwed if Protoss tech switches and severely punished if he mixes in some other units.
hmm, try Speedlots and HTs vs pure mech please like mass tanks and Thors 
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Please stop the balance discussion. Thanks.
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On January 04 2011 06:23 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 05:52 SCC-Faust wrote:On January 04 2011 05:28 MockHamill wrote:
The balance changes make no sense to me. Why improve Protoss early game, which is already strong as long as you know how to use forcefields, without nerfing their OP lategame.
HTs + Speedlots cannot be defeated by Terran given equal skill and similar economies. It is simply not possible.
I suggest the following:
- Khaydarin Amulet removed from the game
- Zealot speed upgrade decreases Zealot hitpoints by 10. No and no. And no and no and no. If you would have said something that was from a subjective point of view I'd respond differently. But when you have the attitude that Terran doesn't have a chance late game against Protoss, you're just misinformed and (probably) a bad TvP player. Rarely do you see people making balance accusations in favor of a race that they don't even play, because mostly, it isn't their concern. And it is really hard for someone to even respond to a post like yours because there is so much evidence where you're truly wrong. A Protoss just can't tech to High Templar and get an easy third. Have you even watched any of the past GSL games? Any of the Koths? Where do you get this idea? In fact, I'd love to hear your opinion on oGsMC's play style. He plays pretty much the exact opposite of what you believe to be overpowered - he opts for timing pushes. He doesn't even want to get to the point where he has High Templar, and many Protoss feel the same way. To you, storm sure seems like a great spell. But how about playing PvT at a higher level for a bit? While the Terran has to micro carefully and split his army, the Protoss has to constantly retreat his chargelots and move them away from his own storms, while splitting his high templars so EMP doesn't nullify his whole army. It isn't an easy situation for anyone. Don't make balance suggestions just because you blow at something. You make yourself look dumb and shit up threads. You are full of shit, especially on certain maps (metal and caverns particularly) warp in templar is retarded strong. Even if you beat their army as a terran player you cant move forward because theres several templars waiting there for you to storm the rest of your army then protoss just reproduces. It turns the game into a stalemate hour long bullshit fest shown here http://sc2rep.com/replays/(P)ZZayohoPros_vs_(T)oGsTOP_metalopolis_sc2rep_com_20101231/4033Its quite ugly. Warp in templar is a problem, its already difficult enough for terran to deal with colossus and templar seeing as they require 2 completely different tech paths but warp in + armor upgrades make it retarded. There comes a point where you get ahead of the toss and litterally cannot attack them because its not cost effective meanwhile they slowly take the map and can go carriers or something. Bio just isnt viable and tank/thor is worthless as well. Maybe some sort of Hidden mass BC shit and hope you kill them before they make voids....I dunno. Theres always the threat protoss can run you over as well with that shit. Its dumb. People use cannons at their expos with the templar as well to make dropping impossible. I honestly think some people are just bad at protoss on here or havent tried going anything but colossus. Its shit. No terran composition can beat that in any remotely cost effective way. Also you are rofl bad if you cant split templars....how fucking easy is that combined with smart cast in this game? Its basically impossible to EMP every templar since good people put them in the back of their army combined with the fact that feedback is instant -_-
You called me full of shit then basically cried about how hard TvP is for you? Okay.
Then you weren't able to disprove anything I said, indirectly called me bad at Protoss, and didn't make a single point. Funny stuff.
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On January 04 2011 06:34 Plexa wrote:
Please stop the balance discussion. Thanks.
Its like talking to a brick wall man 
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On January 04 2011 06:35 SCC-Faust wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 06:23 Sadist wrote:On January 04 2011 05:52 SCC-Faust wrote:On January 04 2011 05:28 MockHamill wrote:
The balance changes make no sense to me. Why improve Protoss early game, which is already strong as long as you know how to use forcefields, without nerfing their OP lategame.
HTs + Speedlots cannot be defeated by Terran given equal skill and similar economies. It is simply not possible.
I suggest the following:
- Khaydarin Amulet removed from the game
- Zealot speed upgrade decreases Zealot hitpoints by 10. No and no. And no and no and no. If you would have said something that was from a subjective point of view I'd respond differently. But when you have the attitude that Terran doesn't have a chance late game against Protoss, you're just misinformed and (probably) a bad TvP player. Rarely do you see people making balance accusations in favor of a race that they don't even play, because mostly, it isn't their concern. And it is really hard for someone to even respond to a post like yours because there is so much evidence where you're truly wrong. A Protoss just can't tech to High Templar and get an easy third. Have you even watched any of the past GSL games? Any of the Koths? Where do you get this idea? In fact, I'd love to hear your opinion on oGsMC's play style. He plays pretty much the exact opposite of what you believe to be overpowered - he opts for timing pushes. He doesn't even want to get to the point where he has High Templar, and many Protoss feel the same way. To you, storm sure seems like a great spell. But how about playing PvT at a higher level for a bit? While the Terran has to micro carefully and split his army, the Protoss has to constantly retreat his chargelots and move them away from his own storms, while splitting his high templars so EMP doesn't nullify his whole army. It isn't an easy situation for anyone. Don't make balance suggestions just because you blow at something. You make yourself look dumb and shit up threads. You are full of shit, especially on certain maps (metal and caverns particularly) warp in templar is retarded strong. Even if you beat their army as a terran player you cant move forward because theres several templars waiting there for you to storm the rest of your army then protoss just reproduces. It turns the game into a stalemate hour long bullshit fest shown here http://sc2rep.com/replays/(P)ZZayohoPros_vs_(T)oGsTOP_metalopolis_sc2rep_com_20101231/4033Its quite ugly. Warp in templar is a problem, its already difficult enough for terran to deal with colossus and templar seeing as they require 2 completely different tech paths but warp in + armor upgrades make it retarded. There comes a point where you get ahead of the toss and litterally cannot attack them because its not cost effective meanwhile they slowly take the map and can go carriers or something. Bio just isnt viable and tank/thor is worthless as well. Maybe some sort of Hidden mass BC shit and hope you kill them before they make voids....I dunno. Theres always the threat protoss can run you over as well with that shit. Its dumb. People use cannons at their expos with the templar as well to make dropping impossible. I honestly think some people are just bad at protoss on here or havent tried going anything but colossus. Its shit. No terran composition can beat that in any remotely cost effective way. Also you are rofl bad if you cant split templars....how fucking easy is that combined with smart cast in this game? Its basically impossible to EMP every templar since good people put them in the back of their army combined with the fact that feedback is instant -_- You called me full of shit then basically cried about how hard TvP is for you? Okay. Then you weren't able to disprove anything I said, indirectly called me bad at Protoss, and didn't make a single point. Funny stuff.
Its not just hard for me, its hard for everyone. Its basically hit a timing attack and hope. My point was that its not cost effective for terran to attack even when they are in the lead against warp in templar god forbid they are behind, and theres not a unit composition that beats it.
I dont know why we cant have a balance discussion in a 1.2 thread especially when it makes Phoenix's stronger and basically hurts terran vs colossus play as well as making phoenix more viable early game
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we dont even know what this patch is gonna do. the features in the ptr were a TEST. lets not jump to conclusions here
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On January 04 2011 06:39 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 06:35 SCC-Faust wrote:On January 04 2011 06:23 Sadist wrote:On January 04 2011 05:52 SCC-Faust wrote:On January 04 2011 05:28 MockHamill wrote:
The balance changes make no sense to me. Why improve Protoss early game, which is already strong as long as you know how to use forcefields, without nerfing their OP lategame.
HTs + Speedlots cannot be defeated by Terran given equal skill and similar economies. It is simply not possible.
I suggest the following:
- Khaydarin Amulet removed from the game
- Zealot speed upgrade decreases Zealot hitpoints by 10. No and no. And no and no and no. If you would have said something that was from a subjective point of view I'd respond differently. But when you have the attitude that Terran doesn't have a chance late game against Protoss, you're just misinformed and (probably) a bad TvP player. Rarely do you see people making balance accusations in favor of a race that they don't even play, because mostly, it isn't their concern. And it is really hard for someone to even respond to a post like yours because there is so much evidence where you're truly wrong. A Protoss just can't tech to High Templar and get an easy third. Have you even watched any of the past GSL games? Any of the Koths? Where do you get this idea? In fact, I'd love to hear your opinion on oGsMC's play style. He plays pretty much the exact opposite of what you believe to be overpowered - he opts for timing pushes. He doesn't even want to get to the point where he has High Templar, and many Protoss feel the same way. To you, storm sure seems like a great spell. But how about playing PvT at a higher level for a bit? While the Terran has to micro carefully and split his army, the Protoss has to constantly retreat his chargelots and move them away from his own storms, while splitting his high templars so EMP doesn't nullify his whole army. It isn't an easy situation for anyone. Don't make balance suggestions just because you blow at something. You make yourself look dumb and shit up threads. You are full of shit, especially on certain maps (metal and caverns particularly) warp in templar is retarded strong. Even if you beat their army as a terran player you cant move forward because theres several templars waiting there for you to storm the rest of your army then protoss just reproduces. It turns the game into a stalemate hour long bullshit fest shown here http://sc2rep.com/replays/(P)ZZayohoPros_vs_(T)oGsTOP_metalopolis_sc2rep_com_20101231/4033Its quite ugly. Warp in templar is a problem, its already difficult enough for terran to deal with colossus and templar seeing as they require 2 completely different tech paths but warp in + armor upgrades make it retarded. There comes a point where you get ahead of the toss and litterally cannot attack them because its not cost effective meanwhile they slowly take the map and can go carriers or something. Bio just isnt viable and tank/thor is worthless as well. Maybe some sort of Hidden mass BC shit and hope you kill them before they make voids....I dunno. Theres always the threat protoss can run you over as well with that shit. Its dumb. People use cannons at their expos with the templar as well to make dropping impossible. I honestly think some people are just bad at protoss on here or havent tried going anything but colossus. Its shit. No terran composition can beat that in any remotely cost effective way. Also you are rofl bad if you cant split templars....how fucking easy is that combined with smart cast in this game? Its basically impossible to EMP every templar since good people put them in the back of their army combined with the fact that feedback is instant -_- You called me full of shit then basically cried about how hard TvP is for you? Okay. Then you weren't able to disprove anything I said, indirectly called me bad at Protoss, and didn't make a single point. Funny stuff. Its not just hard for me, its hard for everyone. Its basically hit a timing attack and hope. My point was that its not cost effective for terran to attack even when they are in the lead against warp in templar god forbid they are behind, and theres not a unit composition that beats it. I dont know why we cant have a balance discussion in a 1.2 thread especially when it makes Phoenix's stronger and basically hurts terran vs colossus play as well as making phoenix more viable early game
Because it turns into a degenerative shittfest and no one has any idea what ramifications this patch actually will have. I'm happy for you guys to discuss it, but jumping straight to "omfg tvp imba" isn't really healthy discussion.
Its shit. No terran composition can beat that in any remotely cost effective way.
Also you are rofl bad if you cant split templars....how fucking easy is that combined with smart cast in this game? Its basically impossible to EMP every templar since good people put them in the back of their army combined with the fact that feedback is instant -_- etc
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On January 04 2011 06:38 DragoonPK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 06:34 Plexa wrote:
Please stop the balance discussion. Thanks. Its like talking to a brick wall man
I started my post before I saw Plexa's, I swear I'm not a brick.
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EPT
