• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 01:54
CET 06:54
KST 14:54
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.171Evil Geniuses - shutting down16ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier5Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League83
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.17 REPORT: StarCraft 2: Remastered In Development Evil Geniuses - shutting down How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners
Tourneys
RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier WORTEX Challenger Series — Open SC2 LAN in Budapes
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands
External Content
Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 548 Shining Bright Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror
Brood War
General
[BW] Looking for Clan Thread! [ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory! Recent recommended BW games [Megathread] Daily Funny Videos Hands of Pluto
Tourneys
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Grand Finals [BSL23] RO24 Group C
Strategy
50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Armies of Exigo - YesYes? General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8996 users

Blizzard reverting some patch 1.2 changes - Page 10

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 8 9 10 11 12 27 Next All
Chaosvuistje
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands2581 Posts
December 07 2010 09:12 GMT
#181
Halleluya!

Now I can gladly say that I am glad for the phoenix build time buff, as long as we have a way to stop them with hydra's and infestors =).
stealthgerbi
Profile Joined September 2010
United States25 Posts
December 07 2010 09:12 GMT
#182
On December 07 2010 17:06 Highways wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2010 17:04 papaz wrote:
quite dissapointing of blizzard, specially with the "hold down key".

Exactly.

You see superstars like Jaedong playing at 350apm, and now you see 'so called' high level SC2 players complaining that:
"I cant leave all my hatches on one hotkey and hold down ONE button to macro anymore".

SC2 players already have it very very easy mechanically ffs.


who cares the game should be about strategy, not how quick someone can move their fingers...
halvorg
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Norway717 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-07 09:14:11
December 07 2010 09:12 GMT
#183
On December 07 2010 18:03 shannn wrote:
What this tell us is that all players should just shut the hell up about balance when it's on the PTR. Unless it's live then u can start complaining.

If all the Zerg QQ was the reason Blizzard reverted the change then I say put it back on. I don't mind if FG nerf was reverted but not if it were for the reason because so many Zerg players demanded it. There should be testing around this to happen rather than player complaints.

Now if FG never had the nerf in the first place how many pages of QQ would we have in the ptr thread then?

If there is 1 thing that any race does not like then we can expect several threads of whining in it. Although you do not see much QQ of Protoss for some reason.


what kind of backward ass logic is that? If the change is on PTR it means that they are considering the change, and want some feedback (but mostly testing). If there is A TIME to get your voice heard about balance changes it is at a PTR stage. if you don't play Z and especially ZvZ you don't understand what a huge change the fungal nerf would be(for better or worse), equivalent of removing siege mode in TvT.

Personally im glad they just put the phoenix buff in there and we'll see how it turns out, instead of turning the whole game upside down. looks like a nice patch to me.
happyness
Profile Joined June 2010
United States2400 Posts
December 07 2010 09:14 GMT
#184

On December 07 2010 16:37 Xxavi wrote:

I watched that Ret's game vs Protoss player. In that first game, the Toss player killed 2-3 large armies of Ret. Ret didn't seem to be controlling his units at all, just sending for massacre. Yet, he is comfortably sitting on 5 expansions, and taking gold, so he can keep pumping units. Was he the better player in the first game? Absolutely not for me, yet he got praised for macro.

Good Zergs make it look ridiculous if you don't pressure them early. Cheese or not cheese, if you let NesTea alive for more than 10 minutes, that's it, you can as well gg.


Ugh, comments like this make me sick. Ret is successful in early pressure, out expands his opponent, and he wins because zerg is OP?? Give me a break.

The only way zerg can beat a Z or T in maxed battle is if they are able to replenish their units because they will lose the initial battle. This is basic SC2
sleepingdog
Profile Joined August 2008
Austria6145 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-07 09:18:13
December 07 2010 09:15 GMT
#185
On December 07 2010 18:03 shannn wrote:
If all the Zerg QQ was the reason Blizzard reverted the change then I say put it back on. I don't mind if FG nerf was reverted but not if it were for the reason because so many Zerg players demanded it. There should be testing around this to happen rather than player complaints.


To be fair, EVERYONE told Blizz the FG nerf was ridiculous - I am a protoss-player and don't think FG needs such a nerf either. Neither do I think that phoenixes need to be buffed.

Then again I also think Blizz should bring back flux vanes, insanely expensive as it is and I couldn't remember one match where I was "wow the speed is sooo OP, without speed it would be teh balance". That's the mystery of PTR, Blizz has introduced changes that nobody ever asked for, let alone expected.
Phoenixes were/are one of the units that IS actually 100% balanced as it is - one of the very few units that is skill-demanding, very strong in the hand of people who know what they are doing, free-loss for newbs unless it's against mass-muta.

On December 07 2010 18:01 DizzyDrone wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2010 17:30 sleepingdog wrote:
No wonder they are changing back the hold-key-mechanism, there probably were millions of bronze-level-posts saying it is too hard to actually press some key repeatedly - fucking bullshit, Blizz attempts to make the game "a bit" more skill-demanding and cowardly reverts it shortly after.

Other changes are good though, except, well Protoss won't be able to win any game that goes into lategame vs Zerg on bigger maps and includes hive-tech-units, if both have similar skill - no speed-rays vs mass-mutas AND fungal vs phoenix AND broodlords to kill everything else....will not work, there isn't even a counter in "theory".


If we are talking theory, Mothership (vortex) and Archons will clean that army up. In practice however, I think the real danger in the pvz matchup for Protoss is the switch from Broodlords to Ultralisks.


This is why many good protoss-players started incorporating void rays in their standard-army - because you can't play against zerg hive-tech without them. Now PvZ lategame wasn't considererd protoss-favoured the last time I checked, so I don't get the flux vanes removal, now that they got rid of the ridiculous fungal nerf completely.
"You see....YOU SEE..." © 2010 Sen
razamanaz
Profile Joined August 2010
271 Posts
December 07 2010 09:19 GMT
#186
They came to theyr sense :D even as toss player i have to agree that fg to air removing was a bit silly .
ultramafia
Profile Joined August 2010
221 Posts
December 07 2010 09:19 GMT
#187
Thank you every qq zerg. Somehow i expected this.
毒爆虫 | CJ Entus fight
zeroISM
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Japan161 Posts
December 07 2010 09:21 GMT
#188
Thank you posting this, FrostedMiniWeet! <3
♘
shannn
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands2891 Posts
December 07 2010 09:22 GMT
#189
On December 07 2010 18:12 halvorg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2010 18:03 shannn wrote:
What this tell us is that all players should just shut the hell up about balance when it's on the PTR. Unless it's live then u can start complaining.

If all the Zerg QQ was the reason Blizzard reverted the change then I say put it back on. I don't mind if FG nerf was reverted but not if it were for the reason because so many Zerg players demanded it. There should be testing around this to happen rather than player complaints.

Now if FG never had the nerf in the first place how many pages of QQ would we have in the ptr thread then?

If there is 1 thing that any race does not like then we can expect several threads of whining in it. Although you do not see much QQ of Protoss for some reason.


what kind of backward ass logic is that? If the change is on PTR it means that they are considering the change, and want some feedback (but mostly testing). If there is A TIME to get your voice heard about balance changes it is at a PTR stage. if you don't play Z and especially ZvZ you don't understand what a huge change the fungal nerf would be(for better or worse), equivalent of removing siege mode in TvT.

Personally im glad they just put the phoenix buff in there and we'll see how it turns out, instead of turning the whole game upside down. looks like a nice patch to me.

I'm random now. I do play Zerg from time to time when I get them (although very rarely) so now what ? I know how it goes.

Ofcourse there should be opinions on the changes but not just mindless QQ. If you have some constructive criticism like WHY it affects the setup in general (for example IdrA explained in the SotG why) then it's good to have that and tell Blizzard about it. But mindlessly saying things like: omfg why if Zerg doesn't have it hard enough or NOW WE CAN'T GO MUTA"S EVER. What good does any of these posts or of the similar kind have in kinds of feedback? Exactly none.

My post may not show my point too well as I read it back now but players needs to give constructive feedback and Blizzard should only listen to that and not to just whining when it comes to possible changes in the future.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6321864 Epic post.
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-07 09:25:04
December 07 2010 09:22 GMT
#190
On December 07 2010 16:12 ilbh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2010 15:21 -orb- wrote:
Huh.

I actually liked the not-being-able-to-hold-down-keys thing. Anything that makes the game harder and increases the skill ceiling imo


do you really think that pressing one key repeatedly increases the skill ceiling?

now you can use your true skills to do something useful instead of staring to the screen pressing one key repeatedly to make units.

Mmm, if anything they'd need to have you select the larvae of only one hatch at once and then you'd need to press S again for the second one, and so on. But that's kind of silly as well, I think it's fine as it is. It still takes a lot of attention. (spawn larvae is the hard thing)

On December 07 2010 18:12 stealthgerbi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2010 17:06 Highways wrote:
On December 07 2010 17:04 papaz wrote:
quite dissapointing of blizzard, specially with the "hold down key".

Exactly.

You see superstars like Jaedong playing at 350apm, and now you see 'so called' high level SC2 players complaining that:
"I cant leave all my hatches on one hotkey and hold down ONE button to macro anymore".

SC2 players already have it very very easy mechanically ffs.


who cares the game should be about strategy, not how quick someone can move their fingers...

Also, I'd take 4sh5sh6sh7sh over 5shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh any day.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
emc
Profile Joined September 2010
United States3088 Posts
December 07 2010 09:24 GMT
#191
thank goodness. phoenixes will still be a pain but at least i have my infestor.
Douillos
Profile Joined May 2010
France3195 Posts
December 07 2010 09:24 GMT
#192
On December 07 2010 15:21 -orb- wrote:
Huh.

I actually liked the not-being-able-to-hold-down-keys thing. Anything that makes the game harder and increases the skill ceiling imo


how does that make the game hardeR? I already look like a fucking epileptic when I play, dont you? xD
Look a giraffe! Look a fist!!
Railxp
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Hong Kong1313 Posts
December 07 2010 09:27 GMT
#193
lol its nice to see that everyone likes to troll, even blizzard XD
~\(。◕‿‿◕。)/~,,,,,,,,>
Douillos
Profile Joined May 2010
France3195 Posts
December 07 2010 09:29 GMT
#194
On December 07 2010 18:27 Railxp wrote:
lol its nice to see that everyone likes to troll, even blizzard XD


ahahah
Look a giraffe! Look a fist!!
WarChimp
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Australia943 Posts
December 07 2010 09:32 GMT
#195
None of these changes effect me anyway, I never really got my air fungal growth'd so it doesn't really matter. Plus the bunker being lessened by 5 seconds, I could potentially see some danger in some bunker rushes for that, but nothing to drastic I suppose.
andrewwiggin
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia435 Posts
December 07 2010 09:38 GMT
#196

So.. the one zerg nerf that happens, gets.. undone.

The one 'potential-but-wasn't-even-live' zerg nerf.

But... protoss nerfs? Psh, put them live straight away! No need to test THOSE!

...

-_________________________-
Durn
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada360 Posts
December 07 2010 09:46 GMT
#197
On December 07 2010 18:22 Shikyo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2010 16:12 ilbh wrote:
On December 07 2010 15:21 -orb- wrote:
Huh.

I actually liked the not-being-able-to-hold-down-keys thing. Anything that makes the game harder and increases the skill ceiling imo


do you really think that pressing one key repeatedly increases the skill ceiling?

now you can use your true skills to do something useful instead of staring to the screen pressing one key repeatedly to make units.

Mmm, if anything they'd need to have you select the larvae of only one hatch at once and then you'd need to press S again for the second one, and so on. But that's kind of silly as well, I think it's fine as it is. It still takes a lot of attention. (spawn larvae is the hard thing)

Show nested quote +
On December 07 2010 18:12 stealthgerbi wrote:
On December 07 2010 17:06 Highways wrote:
On December 07 2010 17:04 papaz wrote:
quite dissapointing of blizzard, specially with the "hold down key".

Exactly.

You see superstars like Jaedong playing at 350apm, and now you see 'so called' high level SC2 players complaining that:
"I cant leave all my hatches on one hotkey and hold down ONE button to macro anymore".

SC2 players already have it very very easy mechanically ffs.


who cares the game should be about strategy, not how quick someone can move their fingers...

Also, I'd take 4sh5sh6sh7sh over 5shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh any day.
I agree with you but technically you can still do that (if they had kept the change.)
"Even if I lose 100 games, that's 100 different arrows pointing me in the wrong direction." - Sean Day[9] Plott
Durn
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada360 Posts
December 07 2010 09:48 GMT
#198
On December 07 2010 18:38 andrewwiggin wrote:

So.. the one zerg nerf that happens, gets.. undone.

The one 'potential-but-wasn't-even-live' zerg nerf.

But... protoss nerfs? Psh, put them live straight away! No need to test THOSE!

...

-_________________________-

Indulge me if you would, and please name some Protoss nerfs that have changed the game as much as the FG nerf.
"Even if I lose 100 games, that's 100 different arrows pointing me in the wrong direction." - Sean Day[9] Plott
papaz
Profile Joined December 2009
Sweden4149 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-07 09:49:21
December 07 2010 09:49 GMT
#199
nvm
H0i
Profile Joined October 2010
Netherlands484 Posts
December 07 2010 09:51 GMT
#200
- Zerg is nerfed
- Zerg nerfs are taken away

Not that I think those changes should stay, but FG is too effective against phoenix. It is unfair that zerg has 1 spell that can win them the game (if both players go air heavy). Protoss does not have such a spell. Blizzard intents the phoenix to be the counter to muta, then it should be able to defend against FG too.

And please don't counter my argument by saying "Force fields!". Protoss is balanced around having perfect force fields all the time.
Prev 1 8 9 10 11 12 27 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
IntoTheTV X SOOP
11:00
Replaycast Group C
PiGosaur Cup
09:30
#105
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SortOf 61
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 3659
GuemChi 1419
Leta 764
Mong 255
Shine 80
ZergMaN 63
910 48
Noble 23
Creator 20
Icarus 10
[ Show more ]
NotJumperer 9
Dota 2
LuMiX1
League of Legends
Doublelift4120
Other Games
summit1g9877
WinterStarcraft456
C9.Mang0262
Livibee59
Sick39
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick960
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• practicex 23
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki0
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2256
League of Legends
• Rush1012
• Stunt491
Other Games
• Shiphtur535
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
4h 7m
Kung Fu Cup
5h 7m
IntoTheTV X SOOP
1d 5h
SHIN vs GuMiho
Clem vs Classic
OSC
1d 16h
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
GSL
2 days
Epic.LAN
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Epic.LAN
3 days
[ Show More ]
AI Arena Tournament
3 days
Yamato Cup
4 days
Map Test Tournament
4 days
WardiTV Weekly
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Rogue vs Classic
Patches Events
6 days
PiGosaur Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-10-27
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
BSL Season 23
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

IPSL Winter 2026-27
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.