• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 20:51
CEST 02:51
KST 09:51
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview27Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN3The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL47Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, Zoun, Solar, Creator4[ASL19] Finals Preview: Daunting Task30
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 2-8): herO doubles down1[BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates9GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th13Weekly Cups (May 27-June 1): ByuN goes back-to-back0EWC 2025 Regional Qualifier Results26
StarCraft 2
General
The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Firefly do had match fixing RECLAIM YOUR SCAMMED CRYPTOCURRENCY WITH SLAYER CO Best Crypto Asset Recovery Service Providers CN community: Firefly accused of suspicious activities
Tourneys
Bellum Gens Elite: Stara Zagora 2025 $3,500 WardiTV European League 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance
Brood War
General
BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Will foreigners ever be able to challenge Koreans? Mihu vs Korea Players Statistics BW General Discussion [BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates
Tourneys
[ASL19] Grand Finals NA Team League 6/8/2025 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 2
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread What do you want from future RTS games? Armies of Exigo - YesYes? Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Vape Nation Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Maru Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Cognitive styles x game perf…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Poker
Nebuchad
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 22102 users

Blizzard reverting some patch 1.2 changes - Page 27

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 25 26 27 All
iSTime
Profile Joined November 2006
1579 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-10 06:47:22
December 10 2010 06:45 GMT
#521
On December 09 2010 15:35 RaNgeD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 09 2010 14:36 Kitani wrote:
On December 09 2010 05:56 Freeborn wrote:
And I think that Marines could actually use a nerf so that terran has to use more units in his arsenal....

Yeah some guy made this whole thread on how the marine is one of the most vital units in the terran army and without them terran is nothing? That's the gist of the threat IMO
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=174912

On December 09 2010 05:56 Freeborn wrote:
roaches should get their old range back though or do less dmg.

Uh, no. Just no.

Roach
16 damage every 2 seconds (8 DPS), 4 range
145 HP, armored biological

Marauder
10 damage every 1.5 seconds (6.66 DPS), +10 vs armored (13.33 DPS), 6 range
125 HP, armored biological

Stalker
10 damage every 1.44 seconds (6.94 DPS), +4 vs armored (9.72 DPS), 6 range
80 shields, 80 HP, armored mechanical

As it stands, marauders and stalkers can get a free shot off on a roach without taking damage, so essentially, marauders and roaches would start off with the same HP, and against stalkers, roaches are down by 29 HP. Furthermore, marauders and stalkers have a higher DPS, not to mention the fact that marauders can stim to move away and get more free shots and fire faster and stalkers have blink. Roaches really have the short end of the stick here, before upgrades are considered. They are beat in DPS and range.


Gotta take in cost efficiency as well though.


GOTTA TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE FACT THAT THIS IS SC2 NOT MASS 1 UNIT PER RACE GOGO A-MOVE.

Comparing unit stats to discuss balance is pretty retarded unless you're doing it alongside more impressive balance discussion (pointing to statistically significant lopsided win ratios in top level play, for example)

But either way I don't agree with changing roach range back to 3.
www.infinityseven.net
Lennon
Profile Joined February 2010
United Kingdom2275 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-10 06:50:09
December 10 2010 06:49 GMT
#522
On December 09 2010 14:36 Kitani wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 09 2010 05:56 Freeborn wrote:
And I think that Marines could actually use a nerf so that terran has to use more units in his arsenal....

Yeah some guy made this whole thread on how the marine is one of the most vital units in the terran army and without them terran is nothing? That's the gist of the threat IMO
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=174912

Show nested quote +
On December 09 2010 05:56 Freeborn wrote:
roaches should get their old range back though or do less dmg.

Uh, no. Just no.

Roach
16 damage every 2 seconds (8 DPS), 4 range
145 HP, armored biological

Marauder
10 damage every 1.5 seconds (6.66 DPS), +10 vs armored (13.33 DPS), 6 range
125 HP, armored biological

Stalker
10 damage every 1.44 seconds (6.94 DPS), +4 vs armored (9.72 DPS), 6 range
80 shields, 80 HP, armored mechanical

As it stands, marauders and stalkers can get a free shot off on a roach without taking damage, so essentially, marauders and roaches would start off with the same HP, and against stalkers, roaches are down by 29 HP. Furthermore, marauders and stalkers have a higher DPS, not to mention the fact that marauders can stim to move away and get more free shots and fire faster and stalkers have blink. Roaches really have the short end of the stick here, before upgrades are considered. They are beat in DPS and range.


You're comparing 3 completely different units. Zergs make Zerglings versus Marauders and Stalkers anyway so why bother comparing Roaches to Marauders and Stalkers?
What are you comparing next? Brood Lords against Carriers?
tetramaster
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada253 Posts
December 10 2010 06:50 GMT
#523
On December 10 2010 15:45 PJA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 09 2010 15:35 RaNgeD wrote:
On December 09 2010 14:36 Kitani wrote:
On December 09 2010 05:56 Freeborn wrote:
And I think that Marines could actually use a nerf so that terran has to use more units in his arsenal....

Yeah some guy made this whole thread on how the marine is one of the most vital units in the terran army and without them terran is nothing? That's the gist of the threat IMO
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=174912

On December 09 2010 05:56 Freeborn wrote:
roaches should get their old range back though or do less dmg.

Uh, no. Just no.

Roach
16 damage every 2 seconds (8 DPS), 4 range
145 HP, armored biological

Marauder
10 damage every 1.5 seconds (6.66 DPS), +10 vs armored (13.33 DPS), 6 range
125 HP, armored biological

Stalker
10 damage every 1.44 seconds (6.94 DPS), +4 vs armored (9.72 DPS), 6 range
80 shields, 80 HP, armored mechanical

As it stands, marauders and stalkers can get a free shot off on a roach without taking damage, so essentially, marauders and roaches would start off with the same HP, and against stalkers, roaches are down by 29 HP. Furthermore, marauders and stalkers have a higher DPS, not to mention the fact that marauders can stim to move away and get more free shots and fire faster and stalkers have blink. Roaches really have the short end of the stick here, before upgrades are considered. They are beat in DPS and range.


Gotta take in cost efficiency as well though.


GOTTA TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE FACT THAT THIS IS SC2 NOT MASS 1 UNIT PER RACE GOGO A-MOVE.

Comparing unit stats to discuss balance is pretty retarded unless you're doing it alongside more impressive balance discussion (pointing to statistically significant lopsided win ratios in top level play, for example)

But either way I don't agree with changing roach range back to 3.


I agree; I don't mind roach range staying at 4, but I'd really like stalker damage scaling to not suck as much. I really don't see doing +1 additional damage to armored per an upgrade breaking anything in particular. Except maybe against ultralisks, but blink stalkers vs ultralisks is a losing battle for the ultras anyways...without ling support.
Morphs
Profile Joined July 2010
Netherlands645 Posts
December 10 2010 06:54 GMT
#524
On December 09 2010 15:17 Piledriver wrote:
Roaches have a higher damage per volley, so their focus fire is much more effective at killing stalkers.


This piece of theorycrafing is untrue.. a slow fire rate suffers when focus firing. Roaches have such a slow attack that when focus firing, many/most (depending on group size) will waste their shot on overkill. Due to the long attack cooldown, this means a great dps loss. Units with a fast attack rate suffer a lot less from this (like zerglings or hydras)

Seriously, have you tried playing roach vs stalker at even cost? Without blink, stalkers just die a horrible death. Once you factor in some ling support, it becomes even more lop sided.


True, once you factor in the cost, roaches do quite well. Especially with +1 ranged attack, which still results in +1 damage when the target has +1 armor.


crappen
Profile Joined April 2010
Norway1546 Posts
December 10 2010 07:13 GMT
#525
Damn its really annoying listening to wow theory crafters hijacking this thread about dps, hp and all that non sense, about as annoying as this useless post stating the obvious..


On a happy note, really happy Blizzard tested this, see how it went and are not afraid to admit the idea wasnt good after all for the game.
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38797 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-10 07:40:33
December 10 2010 07:40 GMT
#526
1) Thank God that they changed this back. Infestors are already hard to use, if they wouldn't target air it would have been a useless unit.

2) Holding down the key or not, it makes the game easier.
I had a good night of sleep.
Askesis
Profile Joined September 2010
216 Posts
December 10 2010 07:48 GMT
#527
All great changes. I'm a Toss player, but I fully support these non-changes.
Liquid_Adun
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada205 Posts
December 16 2010 20:35 GMT
#528
This is easily the worst news i have ever heard, FG is back seriously? Oh well lets see how it plays out, and hope they made the right decisions.
I have returned.
MoreFaSho
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1427 Posts
December 16 2010 20:50 GMT
#529
On December 17 2010 05:35 Liquid_Adun wrote:
This is easily the worst news i have ever heard, FG is back seriously? Oh well lets see how it plays out, and hope they made the right decisions.

Your <insert close family relative here> died today, problem fixed.
I always try to shield slam face, just to make sure it doesnt work
Prev 1 25 26 27 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
2025 KFC #10: SC Evolution
CranKy Ducklings106
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft396
Nina 136
Livibee 66
-ZergGirl 35
Ketroc 5
StarCraft: Brood War
Horang2 933
Artosis 679
yabsab 15
Icarus 4
NaDa 2
Dota 2
monkeys_forever436
NeuroSwarm60
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K649
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King65
Other Games
summit1g9626
shahzam1487
JimRising 228
Maynarde113
RuFF_SC215
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick783
BasetradeTV82
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta15
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 37
• Azhi_Dahaki34
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift5183
Other Games
• Scarra1100
• imaqtpie783
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
9h 9m
WardiTV Invitational
10h 9m
WardiTV Invitational
10h 9m
PiGosaur Monday
23h 9m
GSL Code S
1d 8h
Rogue vs GuMiho
Maru vs Solar
Online Event
1d 23h
Replay Cast
2 days
GSL Code S
2 days
herO vs Zoun
Classic vs Bunny
The PondCast
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
OSC
3 days
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
Cheesadelphia
4 days
GSL Code S
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
BGE Stara Zagora 2025
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
2025 GSL S2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
ECL Season 49: Europe
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025

Upcoming

Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.