EPTBoxer: might go random if Terran gets nerfed again. - Page…
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1Eris1
United States5797 Posts
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Phrencys
Canada270 Posts
On November 01 2010 23:24 Yaotzin wrote: Yes, it is. But at least for now, Terran is succeeding in winning in that 10-15 minutes very,very well. Terran are flawed, and in a way that might make them weak in the long term, but for now they are anything but. People are digging way too much in to BoxeR's quotes and IMO are abusing his credibility to get their "buff Terran!" argument sealed. It's not like he said "Terran is trash, I'm switching to Protoss because it's OP". This is gonna sound cliché and simplistic, but perhaps Terran have been used to have it so easy in early game that they still have to figure out late game? Early tournaments were all about Terran cheesing/mass reapering/marauder-building-sniping tactics. They didn't have to bother with macroing because they could so often end the game in 9minutes. For example, Terrans suddenly stopped making tanks and reapers altogether as if the units were removed from the game. Reaper speed now require a Factory? That's Blizzard telling you to do mid-game harass with them. Send 6-7 reapers into an exposed base instead of solely relying on marauder drops. Believe it or not they still drop buildings incredibly fast. While this certainly cannot replace pre 1.1.2 marauder drops on all maps, players could at LEAST give this kind of stuff a try before making QQ posts on forums. gates+robotics comp can be more successful at 1A than MMM, ok. HTs can own MMM pretty hard if T doesn't bring ghost support, ok. But these posts saying "We are in late game and he has like 15 Colossi, 10 HTs and 70 Stalkers wtf am I supposed to do?" are getting ridiculous. He's turtling on 2 bases? If you failed a 1base all-in, it's your bad. Stalkers+Immortals+Colossi balls of death? Ever thought of Siege Tanks + EMP+Marauders? If he isn't making HTs what prevents you from getting 2-3 Ravens to nullify his stalkers? If he is making both HTs and Colossi, how the hell did you allow that to happen? People have to play the adaptation game. Zerg had to adapt when MorroW changed the metagame into 5rax reapers. They had started to figure it out when Blizzard nerfed reapers again in 1.1.2... but well. | ||
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L0thar
987 Posts
This. I can't believe there are still people denying that. Just look at the games, not simply results. Most of the Terran wins are either straight in early game or later, but after securing huge early game advantage. Terran early game was rightfully nerfed (the supply before barrack is piece of shit change though), but the late game needs some buffing. | ||
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Toxigen
United States390 Posts
now you will get the hate of all Zergs, cause everyone should now that IdrA and Artosis would never whine and are pro's and if they say Zerg is UP, ZERG IS UP! Who cares this noob called boxer, if you have the opinions of idra and artosis^^ This is a really good point. For awhile, a number of people on these boards would take IdrA's opinion on the state of the game as gospel and point to it as proof: "See? The game is imbalanced; even the pros say so!!!" But the flip side of the coin is that IdrA and Artosis did catch some flak from the community for being so vocal about the imbalance and coming off as "whiny." I don't see why BoxeR wouldn't/shouldn't take the same flak if he becomes that vocal about it. Right now, though, these answers are part of an interview. It's not like BoxeR volunteered his opinion about balance with the ulterior motive of getting his race buffed -- he was solicited for his honest opinion and he gave it. | ||
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GGTeMpLaR
United States7226 Posts
On November 02 2010 02:59 Toxigen wrote: This is a really good point. For awhile, a number of people on these boards would take IdrA's opinion on the state of the game as gospel and point to it as proof: "See? The game is imbalanced; even the pros say so!!!" But the flip side of the coin is that IdrA and Artosis did catch some flak from the community for being so vocal about the imbalance and coming off as "whiny." I don't see why BoxeR wouldn't/shouldn't take the same flak if he becomes that vocal about it. Right now, though, these answers are part of an interview. It's not like BoxeR volunteered his opinion about balance with the ulterior motive of getting his race buffed -- he was solicited for his honest opinion and he gave it. because both Idra and Artosis played Terran in SC1 and always complained about Protoss being stronger than Terran even though at the Pro-Scene, Terran's always dominated Protoss Idra/Artosis are known for their BM/whining, Boxer is not. He stated his opinion once and hasn't been consistently whining about it, so he definitely should not take the same flak they have. I'd say Boxer is a much higher authority on balance than Idra/Artosis and I'm sure most people would agree, especially given Idra's/Artosis' track record concerning complaints about imbalance//BM | ||
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NewteN
United States179 Posts
Also, I'm a little confused as to what he's talking about. Correct me if I'm wrong (I haven't watched much of GSL 2 since I have to watch it in Korean/mute) but hasn't he been crushing everyone? Maybe he hasn't faced a strong P or Z yet but wtf I don't remember seeing a game that he came close to losing. For someone as successful and secure with his play as BoxeR to suggest T feels weak should be taken more seriously than at least "QQ LOL" comments. I play P btw, so I'm not defending T just for the fun of it. | ||
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lastmotion
368 Posts
On November 02 2010 01:57 oxxo wrote: He's not wrong. T early game strength was hiding the fact T mid->late is poor. Also why are people discounting Boxer yet they took Idra seriously when he was complaining about Zerg? Oh because they are sheep and only listen to what they want to? Boxer has FAR more credibility than idra. Wrong. T late game is not weak or flawed. It's balanced. Like you said, T's early game is too powerful. Let's assume what you said IS true for a second. Even if it was, T's dominant early game sets the economy/control for late game. T's OP early game will do incredible damage early on and cripple his opponent, the opponent can't do anything late game. So, either way, there's a huge problem with T at the moment. | ||
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Gudeldar
United States1200 Posts
On November 02 2010 06:05 NewteN wrote: It's just flat out ignorant to call BoxeR a QQer. Also, I'm a little confused as to what he's talking about. Correct me if I'm wrong (I haven't watched much of GSL 2 since I have to watch it in Korean/mute) but hasn't he been crushing everyone? Maybe he hasn't faced a strong P or Z yet but wtf I don't remember seeing a game that he came close to losing. For someone as successful and secure with his play as BoxeR to suggest T feels weak should be taken more seriously than at least "QQ LOL" comments. I play P btw, so I'm not defending T just for the fun of it. Calling Boxer a QQer is just as stupid as all the comments that are like "Boxer is God no one may disagree with him, case closed". | ||
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EmilA
Denmark4618 Posts
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Viruuus
Germany451 Posts
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TheGreatHegemon
61 Posts
On November 02 2010 06:29 lastmotion wrote: Wrong. T late game is not weak or flawed. It's balanced. Like you said, T's early game is too powerful. Wrong again. T's late game is weak AND flawed. If T early game was balanced, it'd be brutally apparent too. | ||
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Toxigen
United States390 Posts
On November 02 2010 05:40 GGTeMpLaR wrote: because both Idra and Artosis played Terran in SC1 and always complained about Protoss being stronger than Terran even though at the Pro-Scene, Terran's always dominated Protoss Idra/Artosis are known for their BM/whining, Boxer is not. He stated his opinion once and hasn't been consistently whining about it, so he definitely should not take the same flak they have. I'd say Boxer is a much higher authority on balance than Idra/Artosis and I'm sure most people would agree, especially given Idra's/Artosis' track record concerning complaints about imbalance//BM I think the main difference is that Boxer is not lobbying vocally for changes or even going so far as to suggest balance fixes (like IdrA did). He's just being frank with the interviewer. At this point, I agree it's premature to label Boxer a QQer -- he's allowed to have an opinion. Though, I wouldn't say that any pro player should really be considered an "authority" on balance unless they play random as their main race. It's really asking a lot of a person, even a player of Boxer's caliber, to remove ego from the equation without a doubt and look at the balance situation completely objectively. People should really take opinions of players with a grain of salt -- there have been too many significant balance changes to SC2 already. Blizzard needs to slow down. Personally, I think Boxer's play in SC2 so far has been absolutely brilliant and just what the Terran community needs right now -- it would be a downright shame for him to switch to any other race. | ||
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abrasion
Australia722 Posts
On October 30 2010 06:09 YMCApylons wrote: Anyone who thinks otherwise should watch this game. It's the #1 game in the OSL hall of fame, and CholeraSC titled it "Never Surrender". If you don't know what OSL is or who CholeraSC is...you have a lot to learn before saying anything about Boxer. Tangent: I'm someone new to Starcraft 1/2, who was frequently ridiculed for saying that it would be nice if the units (all units) in SC2 had a bit more HP so we'd see some great micro battles and give the players a bit more of a chance to react. I said this as an ex War 3 player. I don't want to make SC into Warcraft by any means but I thought at the time it would make for better battles, I only said maybe 5 or 10% across the board. Well having seen that video, I now feel even more pissed off at the SC elitists who see the words "War 3" and just instantly dissmis what people say. It seems to me that the SC1 units most definitely are overall tougher, not as tough as War 3 but definitely stronger than SC2.. It makes for more interesting battles, instead of a giant mash up ball from SC2 where everything is dead in 15 seconds. | ||
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abrasion
Australia722 Posts
On October 30 2010 21:27 MockHamill wrote: Yes Terran vs. Protoss is almost a joke right now. Terran gets no advantage from being a little bit stronger early game since force fielding your ramp let you bypass early game. Mid and late game is hugely in Protoss favor. Either you go MMM which auto-lose vs. Storm without perfect micro. Or you go Mech which is better vs. Storm but can’t be used on larger maps due to lack of mobility. I am actually thinking of switching races or maybe take a break from the game until the next patch is out. I can't tell if this post is joking or not  | ||
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Xtar
79 Posts
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Skeyser
Canada219 Posts
On November 02 2010 10:42 Xtar wrote: What does this 'QQing' even mean and what is wrong with it? I have been part of the SC BW community for years but then the beta came out and suddenly everyone is talking about QQ. How did this happen? QQ looks like 2 eyes with tears it came from WC3 though I believe, where alt-qq would auto leave the game. | ||
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Goldfish
2230 Posts
but Fakeboxer WTFpwning today, and also Hopetorture winning against NEXGenius quite convincingly (even though in an ugly fashion) might make the real Boxer look a bit bad. The game definitely has never been as balanced as it is right now, and I am not really sure in what direction the next balance patch will go, but I wouldnt be suprised by anything I agree. As a terran player myself, I think the latest patch made things a lot more balanced. The patch hasn't been out in a while, the patch should be given another month or two before being judged. As for the topic relating to Boxer, I don't really know what to say. It really depends what he means by that and what he wants changed. I don't think he's QQing but at the same time I do not think the balance of the game should be judged yet(give the patch another month or so before judging). | ||
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Abstrkt
Australia65 Posts
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divertiti
Canada106 Posts
On November 02 2010 14:09 Abstrkt wrote: Bozer is a bitch. He has a shitty attitude and is just as whiny as any other player. T is not UP and probably is still the best race. Lol, if you think Boxer's a bitch, what do you call Idra, Artosis, Dimaga, and every other Zerg player on TL? | ||
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Fluxx
Netherlands58 Posts
On November 02 2010 02:59 Toxigen wrote: This is a really good point. For awhile, a number of people on these boards would take IdrA's opinion on the state of the game as gospel and point to it as proof: "See? The game is imbalanced; even the pros say so!!!" But the flip side of the coin is that IdrA and Artosis did catch some flak from the community for being so vocal about the imbalance and coming off as "whiny." I don't see why BoxeR wouldn't/shouldn't take the same flak if he becomes that vocal about it. Right now, though, these answers are part of an interview. It's not like BoxeR volunteered his opinion about balance with the ulterior motive of getting his race buffed -- he was solicited for his honest opinion and he gave it. Finally other people confirm what I have been feeling for some time now! The two major vocal flagships of the western community were both zerg. I think this influenced the general opinion ALOT. Though I really respect Idra as a gamer, and Artosis as a caster, they are both sooo biased. Artosis should be a shoutcaster first, and a gamer second. Day[9] for example, never ever lets something out concerning balance. He actually motivates creative thinking and diverse play rather then stating X IS OP. I still can not honostly believe for example that the state of the game is currently "good" if zerg can go a BLIND hatchery first, and ALWAYS get away with it. There should be more flagships be vocal about all the races and hopefully Blizzard will start buffing things, instead of nerfing the crap out of everything else. | ||
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