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True. However BoxeR is obviously wrong, and there's nothing wrong with pointing that out either.
Obviously. There's no doubt about it. 
The "shutup boxer is amazing you're just a noob" thing is asinine because pros disagree with each other all the time, so clearly many of them are full of it. In fact they usually disagree with each other as much as the general community does, so chances are everyones full of shit.
"BoxeR is obviously wrong" is way more asinine and down right wrong and biased then saying he's opinion should not be disputed. Compared to what some other progamers say in regards to balance Boxer is a saint.
And might i remind you that Nada stated: "terran now has to be on equal bases with Zerg to stand a chance in the mid, late game" , Nexgenius: "Protoss is the strongest race", TLO: "Zerg is slightly favored in ZvT" Jinro: "TvP is broken". These people do not have an "idra" type of reputation to just whine, so do not put all progamers in the same category.
Like Blizzard stated at Blizzcon, even if the win % is 50%50%, the fact that one race can only realistically win in the first 10-15minutes it is bad and imbalanced.
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Yep, Terran is UP and Protoss is OP that is why there are no Terran left in the GSL.
Oh wait...
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On November 01 2010 23:14 Sapphire.lux wrote:Show nested quote +
True. However BoxeR is obviously wrong, and there's nothing wrong with pointing that out either.
Obviously. There's no doubt about it.
Yes. Terran is over-represented in tournaments at every stage. What more do you want?
And might i remind you that Nada stated: "terran now has to be on equal bases with Zerg to stand a chance in the mid, late game" , Nexgenius: "Protoss is the strongest race", TLO: "Zerg is slightly favored in ZvT" Jinro: "TvP is broken". These people do not have an "idra" type of reputation to just whine, so do not put all progamers in the same category.
I haven't really commented on ZvT, maybe they're right on that, probably too early to say though. On TvP the statistics say those players are wrong. Do you have some reason to think the statistics are misleading?
Like Blizzard stated at Blizzcon, even if the win % is 50%50%, the fact that one race can only realistically win in the first 10-15minutes it is bad and imbalanced.
Yes, it is. But at least for now, Terran is succeeding in winning in that 10-15 minutes very,very well. Terran are flawed, and in a way that might make them weak in the long term, but for now they are anything but.
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On November 01 2010 23:21 Gudeldar wrote:
Yep, Terran is UP and Protoss is OP that is why there are no Terran left in the GSL.
Oh wait...
Well if we're gonna use the GSL to show us balance issues, then Zerg was the best race last season, pre patch. I dont think these single tournaments are a very good indicator of balance. Especially when you got Nada, Foxer, Boxer and IntoTheRainbow playing Terran, who do you have for protoss? NEXgenious? Inca?
Or you could just look at Blizzcon, where a protoss won, and argue that protoss is the best race.
It all depends on how good the players are, and it rarely comes down to balance, so we shouldnt be using the GSL for anything besides entertainment, or maybe analysis of a few games, but not statistics imo.
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On November 01 2010 23:21 Gudeldar wrote:
Yep, Terran is UP and Protoss is OP that is why there are no Terran left in the GSL.
Oh wait...
Yes let's use the top 4 of tournaments to decide balance changes. Great idea.
Brood War: Hmm this Flash and Jaedong are dominating all the time. Time to buff Zealot health to 200/200.
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On November 01 2010 23:46 Ocedic wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 23:21 Gudeldar wrote:
Yep, Terran is UP and Protoss is OP that is why there are no Terran left in the GSL.
Oh wait... Yes let's use the top 4 of tournaments to decide balance changes. Great idea. Brood War: Hmm this Flash and Jaedong are dominating all the time. Time to buff Zealot health to 200/200.
Well if the tourny results dont back up terran being UP, and the ladder stats dont point to terran being UP, then maybe they should just STFU and play the game, until there is any actual evidence for terran being UP.
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On November 01 2010 23:46 Ocedic wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 23:21 Gudeldar wrote:
Yep, Terran is UP and Protoss is OP that is why there are no Terran left in the GSL.
Oh wait... Yes let's use the top 4 of tournaments to decide balance changes. Great idea.
Er, yes? If one race is never getting there (It was almost all Terran before, now there are some Zerg too, but still next to no Protoss) then there's a serious issue. It means that once that race starts hitting the top top players of the other races, they lose. That's a problem.
Brood War: Hmm this Flash and Jaedong are dominating all the time. Time to buff Zealot health to 200/200.
There are a bunch of different Terrans continually appearing in the top 4, though. It's rare for even 1 Protoss, and it's usually one of just ~3 names when it is.
And Protoss is pretty obviously the weakest in pro-BW anyway.
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On November 01 2010 23:24 Yaotzin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 23:14 Sapphire.lux wrote:
True. However BoxeR is obviously wrong, and there's nothing wrong with pointing that out either.
Obviously. There's no doubt about it. Yes. Terran is over-represented in tournaments at every stage. What more do you want? Show nested quote +
And might i remind you that Nada stated: "terran now has to be on equal bases with Zerg to stand a chance in the mid, late game" , Nexgenius: "Protoss is the strongest race", TLO: "Zerg is slightly favored in ZvT" Jinro: "TvP is broken". These people do not have an "idra" type of reputation to just whine, so do not put all progamers in the same category.
I haven't really commented on ZvT, maybe they're right on that, probably too early to say though. On TvP the statistics say those players are wrong. Do you have some reason to think the statistics are misleading? Show nested quote +
Like Blizzard stated at Blizzcon, even if the win % is 50%50%, the fact that one race can only realistically win in the first 10-15minutes it is bad and imbalanced.
Yes, it is. But at least for now, Terran is succeeding in winning in that 10-15 minutes very,very well. Terran are flawed, and in a way that might make them weak in the long term, but for now they are anything but.
Well that is all there is to it IMHO. If Terran wins a lot in the first 15 mins then something has to be done, hence the Blizzcon stimpack reference. For the mid/late game Terran needs a lot of help though. Making Terrans able to use different units and not just Marauder X100.
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It is kinda funny how zerg won GSL1 being generally accepted as an UP race. Now people complain about terran being UP and it looks like one of them has excelent chances of winning GSL2.
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On November 01 2010 23:56 Sapphire.lux wrote:
Well that is all there is to it IMHO. If Terran wins a lot in the first 15 mins then something has to be done, hence the Blizzcon stimpack reference. For the mid/late game Terran needs a lot of help though. Making Terrans able to use different units and not just Marauder X100.
Yes I totally agree. Their lategame is borked because they can tech too fast. There's not much cost to unlocking their "lategame" units, so they have to be kinda bleh or rushes to them would be too strong. Sadly they probably need something of a redesign which only an expansion can really provide. Or a really brave patch :0
All I'm saying is that, right now, that 12-15ish minute window where Terran is stronger, is beating the shit out of Protoss. It's all well and good having a great lategame but Protoss simply cannot get there against the top Terrans, not often enough to win with any consistency anyway. And for that reason moans of "Terran is too weak" are seriously grating. They're demolishing Protoss!
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It's sounds like he's just trying to throw his reputation around to prevent T from getting nerfed again more than actually complaining about imbalance. I think giving T a slightly stronger late game would be good though, perhaps with a small nerf to early game stim.
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I just love BoxeR, he is humble and proud at the same time.
"Objectively, he's a better player than me right now. Based on skills, he should continue to use the ID"
This tells everything.
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Poor terrans...
3/4 for the GSL semi finals 
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He's not wrong. T early game strength was hiding the fact T mid->late is poor. Also why are people discounting Boxer yet they took Idra seriously when he was complaining about Zerg? Oh because they are sheep and only listen to what they want to?
Boxer has FAR more credibility than idra.
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EDIT: Nevermind.
Lol I have to keep reminding myself not to reply to this topic.
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This is turning into a Terran OP discussion, has nothin to do with topic...
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really hope he sticks to 1 race (would honestly love it if he played P), I just fear he won't be able to display his full potential if he goes random : \
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On November 02 2010 01:57 oxxo wrote:
He's not wrong. T early game strength was hiding the fact T mid->late is poor.
I agree.
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On November 02 2010 01:51 Boblion wrote:Poor terrans... 3/4 for the GSL semi finals
And if it was 2 TvZs instead of TvT and ZvZ we would probably have 4/4 Terrans.
I would be very surprised if the finals weren't TvT as it involves either Boxer or Nada losing to the Zerg player.
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On November 02 2010 01:57 oxxo wrote:
He's not wrong. T early game strength was hiding the fact T mid->late is poor. Also why are people discounting Boxer yet they took Idra seriously when he was complaining about Zerg? Oh because they are sheep and only listen to what they want to?
Boxer has FAR more credibility than idra.
Because all the evidence in the world pointed towards Zerg being severely underpowered pre-1.12, the complaints of Idra were just a drop in the ocean of that.
On the other hand, there's not really anything pointing toward Terran being underpowered right now. They're still winning more tournaments than the other 2 races combined and still having more players in the top 4 of the GSL than the other 2 races combined.
It's not that Idra has more credibility than Boxer, it's that complaining about your race being weak when its results on the pro level are horrendously bad carries more weight than saying it when you're playing what continues to be the most succesful race in the game.
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EPT
