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On November 14 2010 09:48 Raiznhell wrote:Okay well I dunno where people are getting this BoxeR doesn't know as much about the agme as the rest fo us cuz last time i checked the ManofOneway account before GSL had way more game splayed that most of the american and european top 200 players s he has plenty of release experience plus he is a practiced pro-gamer so he wouuld know just as much as anyone else imo. TLO switched to zerg after zerg became more powerful so if anything him going to random is better than that even because he's not just going right to zerg which undeniabley is the strong race right now in terms of performance anyways. + Show Spoiler +2 GSLs. 2 zerg champs. One going basically undefeated until the finals like man. I mean TvZ is functioning very cool right now and definitley in the right direction but until siege tanks are made less gas heavy and supply heavy it and TvP will always be tough for terran late game in that they will never ahve enough tanks AND there is less gas to spend on essential things liek Ravens which i believe is an essential unit to TvZ that you just cannot afford with siege tank production although without siege tanks terrans gunna die to banes. TvP would also be better with some more tanks too and i think maybe thats the whole problem that SlayerSBoxeR see's with Terran in that siege tanks arent nearly as iconic and useful and potent as in BW. they were the backbone.
Its not only tanks. Terran Mech is crap. TvP you need anti air, but Vikings compared to Goliaths are 50 more mins and 50 more gas
Thors are only good because of mass repair. And their role as Anti muta is a laughing stock.
The day they get rid of Vikings and Thors and put in the Goliath. That would make my day.
The only reason Terran Mech got nerfed was because nobody realized that you can't beat mech with mass lower tier units.They got nerfed before anyone started to use the ultralisk. They got nerfed before Protoss learned that mass Stalker is crap.
Now Zerg and Protoss can literally mass 1 unit and beat Mech. Mass Roach. Mass Ultra. Mass Immortal.
Blizzards decision to nerf mech that early was stupid and they seriously need to look at the factory to fix Terran.
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The general gist that I am getting is that many complain about Terran due to the efficiency and number of their early harassment opinions being superior to the other two races. As such, the other two races are more often required to react as opposed to dictate the initial flow of the game. Many who are inexperienced with the flexibility of the Terran race cry imba as they are unable to deal with Terran's early aggression. However, none of Terran's aggression opinions is unstoppable and can be easily torn apart with the proper response that the more casual players found difficult to implement.
As far as late game is concerned, Terran gets the short end of the stick. There are many points that are backing that statement.
I am not sure how switching to random would help Boxer's win rate though.
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On November 14 2010 10:32 dukethegold wrote:
The general gist that I am getting is that many complain about Terran due to the efficiency and number of their early harassment opinions being superior to the other two races. Many who are inexperienced with the flexibility of the Terran race cry imba as they are unable to deal with them.
As far as late game is concerned, Terran gets the short end of the stick. There are many points that are backing that statement.
I am not sure how switching to random would help Boxer's win rate though.
This is exactly the issue. Most people won't admit that terran is weak because of all the gimmicks we can pull earlygame. But other then that Terran suffers.
If Protoss or Zerg can survive the early game. The Roffle stomp the Terran.
But Boxer's decision is just an excuse to play Zerg 33% of the time
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On November 14 2010 10:19 Raiden X wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2010 09:48 Raiznhell wrote:Okay well I dunno where people are getting this BoxeR doesn't know as much about the agme as the rest fo us cuz last time i checked the ManofOneway account before GSL had way more game splayed that most of the american and european top 200 players s he has plenty of release experience plus he is a practiced pro-gamer so he wouuld know just as much as anyone else imo. TLO switched to zerg after zerg became more powerful so if anything him going to random is better than that even because he's not just going right to zerg which undeniabley is the strong race right now in terms of performance anyways. + Show Spoiler +2 GSLs. 2 zerg champs. One going basically undefeated until the finals like man. I mean TvZ is functioning very cool right now and definitley in the right direction but until siege tanks are made less gas heavy and supply heavy it and TvP will always be tough for terran late game in that they will never ahve enough tanks AND there is less gas to spend on essential things liek Ravens which i believe is an essential unit to TvZ that you just cannot afford with siege tank production although without siege tanks terrans gunna die to banes. TvP would also be better with some more tanks too and i think maybe thats the whole problem that SlayerSBoxeR see's with Terran in that siege tanks arent nearly as iconic and useful and potent as in BW. they were the backbone. Its not only tanks. Terran Mech is crap. TvP you need anti air, but Vikings compared to Goliaths are 50 more mins and 50 more gas Thors are only good because of mass repair. And their role as Anti muta is a laughing stock. The day they get rid of Vikings and Thors and put in the Goliath. That would make my day. The only reason Terran Mech got nerfed was because nobody realized that you can't beat mech with mass lower tier units.They got nerfed before anyone started to use the ultralisk. They got nerfed before Protoss learned that mass Stalker is crap. Now Zerg and Protoss can literally mass 1 unit and beat Mech. Mass Roach. Mass Ultra. Mass Immortal. Blizzards decision to nerf mech that early was stupid and they seriously need to look at the factory to fix Terran.
I would trade hellions for vultures w/ mines, and thors for goliaths. I've been saying it since beta, I wish goliaths were back at the factory, half the cost of a thor, and half the supply. Have them "transform" on the battlefield as an option, into a thor.
*Goliath is far more mobile too... I think this is what T is missing right now*
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Science Vessel in SP would help Terran a lot late game and help mech. And ditch the Raven. Also ditch SD before barracks - stoopid change. Just up build time of reaper if it's too fast for Zerg. Now Reaper unit is 100% worthless can't even scout worth a crap. I hate seeing worthless units. Shows piss poor design. Terran has 3 worthless units at least which rarely show in games. Raven, Reaper, Battleship.
Toss has 3 maybe 4. DT Carrier MS and Void Ray since 1.1.2 Toss is broke everyone knows this. Weak early Super powerful mid game and only Zerg can beat them late.
IMO Zerg has best units and most are used.. however hydras need a speed buff and roach back to 3.
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On November 14 2010 10:35 Raiden X wrote:
This is exactly the issue. Most people won't admit that terran is weak because of all the gimmicks we can pull earlygame. But other then that Terran suffers.
If Protoss or Zerg can survive the early game. The Roffle stomp the Terran.
The gimmicks the top Terran players in the GSL are doing are laughable because that's the race the Blizzard has produced. If you don't use gimmicks as Terran, you won't win because late game Terran is so broke, Blizzard should just auto-GG for every Terran player that hasn't won by mid game.
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On November 14 2010 11:49 tdt wrote:
Science Vessel in SP would help Terran a lot late game and help mech. And ditch the Raven. Also ditch SD before barracks - stoopid change. Just up build time of reaper if it's too fast for Zerg. Now Reaper unit is 100% worthless can't even scout worth a crap. I hate seeing worthless units. Shows piss poor design. Terran has 3 worthless units at least which rarely show in games. Raven, Reaper, Battleship.
Toss has 3 maybe 4. DT Carrier MS and Void Ray since 1.1.2 Toss is broke everyone knows this. Weak early Super powerful mid game and only Zerg can beat them late.
IMO Zerg has best units and most are used.. however hydras need a speed buff and roach back to 3.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with either DTs, Carriers, Void rays, BCs, or Ravens.
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On October 30 2010 06:23 zzaaxxsscd wrote:
sorry, but the thread subject is a little misleading - boxer said he "might" go random
Right...Boxer might go random. So how is "Boxer: might go random" misleading in anyway?
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i cant agree with boxer
everyone acts like nerfing terran is a horrible thing
though its horribly needed or at least stop nurfing terran and buffing zerg and toss
i played random for a while and saw
protoss are easily countered by Maur marine and ghost
zerg all you need honestly is to pressure with vikings, than go MMM or drop into someones base with like 4-8 maur and make them GG
In my opinion as well they need more Zerg units
alot of people also want psy storm nerfed so it does the same damage but a smaller amount with a long amount a time and to my opinion thats bs
if blizzard does that i will expect freakin collisi that cant get hit by air!
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On November 15 2010 21:54 telfire wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 06:23 zzaaxxsscd wrote:
sorry, but the thread subject is a little misleading - boxer said he "might" go random Right...Boxer might go random. So how is "Boxer: might go random" misleading in anyway?
a mod changed the subject a while ago  before it said "boxer will switch to random"
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On November 14 2010 10:19 Raiden X wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2010 09:48 Raiznhell wrote:Okay well I dunno where people are getting this BoxeR doesn't know as much about the agme as the rest fo us cuz last time i checked the ManofOneway account before GSL had way more game splayed that most of the american and european top 200 players s he has plenty of release experience plus he is a practiced pro-gamer so he wouuld know just as much as anyone else imo. TLO switched to zerg after zerg became more powerful so if anything him going to random is better than that even because he's not just going right to zerg which undeniabley is the strong race right now in terms of performance anyways. + Show Spoiler +2 GSLs. 2 zerg champs. One going basically undefeated until the finals like man. I mean TvZ is functioning very cool right now and definitley in the right direction but until siege tanks are made less gas heavy and supply heavy it and TvP will always be tough for terran late game in that they will never ahve enough tanks AND there is less gas to spend on essential things liek Ravens which i believe is an essential unit to TvZ that you just cannot afford with siege tank production although without siege tanks terrans gunna die to banes. TvP would also be better with some more tanks too and i think maybe thats the whole problem that SlayerSBoxeR see's with Terran in that siege tanks arent nearly as iconic and useful and potent as in BW. they were the backbone. Its not only tanks. Terran Mech is crap. TvP you need anti air, but Vikings compared to Goliaths are 50 more mins and 50 more gas Thors are only good because of mass repair. And their role as Anti muta is a laughing stock. The day they get rid of Vikings and Thors and put in the Goliath. That would make my day. The only reason Terran Mech got nerfed was because nobody realized that you can't beat mech with mass lower tier units.They got nerfed before anyone started to use the ultralisk. They got nerfed before Protoss learned that mass Stalker is crap. Now Zerg and Protoss can literally mass 1 unit and beat Mech. Mass Roach. Mass Ultra. Mass Immortal.Blizzards decision to nerf mech that early was stupid and they seriously need to look at the factory to fix Terran.
Has there EVER been a game where the Protoss made only immortals and the Terran's response was to give up because mech was nerfed?
Because... ya know... Terrans don't have marines or air units? You make it sound as if you're restricted to exactly one unit the entire game.
+ Show Spoiler +
Come on. Look at the win ratios of the races. They're very close to even. And that's because people create healthy unit compositions and don't rely on only one unit for the entire game.
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Come on. Look at the win ratios of the races. They're very close to even. And that's because people create healthy unit compositions and don't rely on only one unit for the entire game.
Ratios across the board is vastly different from win ratios at tournament/pro level. People make fun of Foxer for his mass marine but the viability of it over everything else is high given the "gimmicy" style of the terran race.
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On November 22 2010 03:18 sand wrote:Show nested quote +Come on. Look at the win ratios of the races. They're very close to even. And that's because people create healthy unit compositions and don't rely on only one unit for the entire game. Ratios across the board is vastly different from win ratios at tournament/pro level. People make fun of Foxer for his mass marine but the viability of it over everything else is high given the "gimmicy" style of the terran race.
I agree that it's very viable if you have great micro, but I don't particularly think it's a better strategy than every other Terran strategy ever.
My point was that the guy I quoted was complaining that Terrans lose when they only make one type of mech unit. Or just pump out of factories in general... as if Terrans shouldn't use their entire spectrum of units. I don't think that's how StarCraft should be played.
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Well he really should go another race because at the rate he's going he might ruin his legacy by losing everytime a TvZ pops up, I'm afraid he might actually get booted off RO64 if he faces even a no-name zerg.
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EPT
